Topic: Thoughts on two Gundam characters (no idea why I'm posting this)

[Lumi Kløvstad]

So I've come around to rewatching Gundam Seed Destiny for the first time since 2007, simultaneously disproving the existence of both a merciful God and my manhood, as a merciful God would not have allowed that travesty of a show to be made, and a man with self-esteem would probably not subject himself to that torture TWICE.

That said, I have come away with brief opinions of the two most promising characters of the entire cast.

First off, Shinn Asuka, or: "How to waste a perfectly good protagonist"



Shinn Asuka was such a case of wasted potential. He's possibly the most violent Gundam protagonist to date, and could have had such potential in terms of character development. It's a shame the writers of Seed Destiny decided to basically toggle his hero/villain status depending on Kira's presence in the scene. Kira not here? Shinn's the good guy. Kira's here (which only happens more and more as the series goes on)? Shinn's the bad guy. The whole series should have been done from Shinn's perspective. It was a nice change of pace to have a Gundam main character who had more demons than angels, and who for once thought mankind was ultimately depraved and needed to be "fixed" rather than "encouraged". They could have favored a story arc near the end where his character becomes more like a traditional Gundam main character and his opinion of humanity improves, but that was wasted in favor of using Kira Yamato instead during the second half, relegating Shinn to a dual hero/villain role depending on what the episode needed at the time. Basically, first half of Seed Destiny? Awesomesauce on an Awesomeburger between two Awesomebuns. Second half? FAIL. Sheer SHINNsurmountable epic FAIL.

Now then, the other character: Meer Campbell. Alternately: HOLY FUCKING SHIT THIS CHICK IS AWESOME.



Some background on her (from the Gundam Wiki):

Meer is contacted by Chairman Gilbert Durandal, who asks her to pose as Lacus. After she accepts the job, Meer's face is surgically altered to look identical to Lacus.

...

Since Lacus has greater political influence than he does, Durandal uses Meer to gain support for his policies. Meer believes in Durandal's ideals, and agrees to further his agenda by impersonating Lacus.

However, the series also establishes that part of her reason for agreeing to do it is because she looked up to Lacus, and wanted to be like her, and so in a extreme case of hero worship, tries to be like Lacus a little too much while failing to understand what made the real one unique and special (in theory; Lacus as she's actually portrayed is one of the flattest and two dimensional Mary Sue characters in any Gundam series).

Meer ended up being done pretty goddamn perfectly, actually ending up a stronger character than Lacus, in terms of her character progression (degression?), and her resulting psychological destabilization. At first, she's all like "HEY! I get to honor this singer I really like by filling in for her!" and then she got to "Hey! Being famous sure is cool! I could get used to this!" which then sank into "I have her voice, her talent, and her face! I'm pretty sure I can be her, only even better!" and finally she degenerated completely, and starting believing her own lie, buying into the idea that she actually WAS Lacus, only snapping out of it when she met the real one. And Lacus being Lacus (ugh. Getting that chick to be vindictive or even irritated is like trying to tell water not to be wet), she took it like a pro and forgave her in Meer's last moments, bringing to an end probably the best realized character of the entire damn show.

It helps that Rie Tanaka voices Meer. It helps a lot.

Honorable mentions for awesome characters are Gilbert Durandal, who is probably my favorite Gundam villain EVER short of Char Aznable (ironically, they share the same seiyuu), and Heine Westenfluss, as another case of a wasted character with great potential.

No clue why I posted this.

I guess Gundam fans can squabble now, or something.

[X]

The only series I've ever seen out of the whole Gundam works is 'Mobile Suit: Gundam Wing'. It was shown on YTV back in the late 90's. But before that I've never heard about the series at all (let alone how many different series' there were on the whole).

[Gunlord]

Yep, SEED destiny is pretty bad. ~_~

[Lumi Kløvstad]

Yep, SEED destiny is pretty bad. ~_~

No sir. Gundam OO is pretty bad (though it sure started well). Seed Destiny is certifiably and genuinely AWFUL, especially as it nears the end and decides to waste every bit of potential it might have had in the name of making it an easier sell.

Here. I'll let Chris Guanche say things for me. After all, it's kind of his job.

I don't even know where to really start here. Without a doubt, this is perhaps the most disappointing ending I've ever seen to an anime series. And given the way this just ends, I wonder if the term "ending" is even fitting. Let's start with the most obvious here. Much of the final episode is an exact repeat of SEED's ending- Kira and Athrun smash stuff with their METEORs, Kira fights Rau/Rey, and ZAFT superweapons (Requiem and Neo GENESIS) are destroyed. Shinn, who was reduced to nothing more than a barking dog, was beaten quickly by Athrun. Other characters behave in strange ways. Talia, always the professional captain, displays some strange emotions. What's the point of dying with Durandal, especially when she has a young son? It seems quite selfish of her to abandon her son like that. Also, why did Rey suddenly decide to shoot Durandal? He always put in an effort to make sure Shinn didn't listen to Athrun's nonsense, but then he himself fell victim to Kira's own Gundam protagonist babbling. When I watched the first episode, I had the idea that Shinn was supposed to be the hero of this series. And he was-- at least until Kira came back into the spotlight and stole the series from him.

The series was fast-paced and action-packed at first, but that momentum was quickly lost and the story degenerated into what we have now. Shinn, as a protagonist, went nowhere. He started off as an angry guy traumatized by the death of his family. After episode 35, he pretty much became Durandal's dog to help fulfill his plans without thinking for himself. Because of this, Shinn alternately fills the role of hero/villain as the story requires, depending on Kira's presence. In episode 38, Shinn was the good guy during the battle at Heavens Base. At the Orb battle soon after that, he comes across as a villain when he's fighting against Kira and Athrun. During the battle to stop Requiem in 45, Shinn is once again the good guy. In the final episode, he's the bad guy again, and on top of that, he loses all his piloting skills. He's so blinded by meaningless hatred that he even nearly attacks Lunamaria just because he hates Athrun. It's all a shame, because at the beginning, Shinn and Athrun had a pretty good relationship with a mentor-apprentice vibe. That, of course, is long since past.

Many people call DESTINY the Zeta Gundam of the CE universe, and they do indeed have some similarities. However, DESTINY didn't emulate one of the most important aspects of Zeta- character balance. In Zeta, Amuro and Char played important roles, but there was never any doubt that Kamille was the star. Here, Shinn is constantly competing for screentime with Athrun and Kira. What's worse is that all the time spent on Athrun and Kira is a waste. For all of Athrun's moping and confusion, he ends up being exactly the same as he was at the end of SEED. Kira doesn't even change at all during the series, because he has no struggle.

I don't think things were supposed to develop this way, but it looks like Fukuda and Morosawa decided to change gears in the middle of the story. Even with the focus on the old SEED cast, guys like Yzak and Dearka are just cast to the side. And Neo/Mu just gets a one second flashback of Djibril standing over him to explain what happened.

Fukuda has been nicknamed "Flashback 'Em All" due to his penchant for clip shows and flashbacks. Just as in SEED, the constant clip shows in DESTINY always came at the wrong time and killed the pacing of the story. This resulted in an extremely rushed and subpar final battle and ending. It really is a shame, because the CE universe has lots of potential that is wasted due to Fukuda and Morosawa's mismanagement. This is a perfect example of how not to do a Gundam series, and I sincerely hope that neither of them ever works in another Gundam production. I doubt we'd be so lucky, but one can hope.

Pretty much sums up how most of us feel, I should think.

Concerning the clipshows, I am amusing myself by putting them all in a seperate folder on my harddrive just to see a) how many there really are, and b) how the story flows without ANY OF THEM.

So far, the result is that Destiny is IMMEASURABLY improved by that simple act alone.

[KaZudra]

SEED was garbage, Wing was awesome, and Zeta was Gold.

[Lumi Kløvstad]

More thoughts, as I continue my rewatch:

Problem with Lacus Clyne: When she's supposed to be all sweet and innocent, she's as flat chested as a 7 year old. When she's supposed to be brimming with confidence and willpower, suddenly she grows some pretty sizable tits. And then they shrink back to being flatter than Kansas when she goes back to "innocent" mode. This happens SEVERAL TIMES in Gundam Seed Destiny. What. The. Hell.

ALSO!

Women who wear revealing clothes are portrayed as wild, loose, and promiscuous. Women who show up COMPLETELY NAKED (and on occasion, full freaking frontal) are portrayed as a picture of pure innocence and/or virtue. WHAT. THE. HELL.

These standards are getting jarring.

[Super Waffle]

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/7111956/1/Bed_Chat

My thoughts on the subject.

[Profbeanburrito]

I got excited about this being a gundam topic, then I realized it wasn't Universal Century Gundam stuff and I stopped caring

[Lumi Kløvstad]

I got excited about this being a gundam topic, then I realized it wasn't Universal Century Gundam stuff and I stopped caring

I don't blame you. Though I just finished watching Gundam X and it was pretty damn UC for an alternate universe series.

[GuyStarwind]

The only series I've ever seen out of the whole Gundam works is 'Mobile Suit: Gundam Wing'. It was shown on YTV back in the late 90's. But before that I've never heard about the series at all (let alone how many different series' there were on the whole).

This but on Cartoon Network.

I did watch one episode of G Gundam once and I had no clue what was going on but it was really cool. So, maybe I'll watch that one some time.

[Lumi Kløvstad]

G Gundam is epic cheese, and best enjoyed after a few stiff drinks have been imbibed and a few joints have been smoked. They REALLY bring out the show's awesome.
It's basically Street Fighter meets Gundam meets EVERY INTERNATIONAL STEREOTYPE EVER.
Properly read: that means it's awesome and you should watch it at least once.

[Neobelmont]

The only series I've ever seen out of the whole Gundam works is 'Mobile Suit: Gundam Wing'. It was shown on YTV back in the late 90's. But before that I've never heard about the series at all (let alone how many different series' there were on the whole).

I love gundam the ones I watched were on toonami

and these were the ones

Gundam Wing [NC-OP][HD-U]

G Gundam Opening 1

機動戦士ガンダム OPb 「翔べ！ ガンダム」 (ノンテロップ)

Gundam 08th ms team OP HD

love all of these but g gundam is bottom of the bunch while wing is tied with 08 ms teams, 08 was really good and it was just a side story.

Edit: Now I want to watch fing gundam now at one point I was watching all of 0079 and zeta.
Also even though i have never watched this I love the op

Mobile Suit ZZ Gundam Opening 2 Full HD

Also has anybody watched unicorn yet is it good or lackluster?

[uzo]

The best part of SEED Destiny for me was, we got a Gundam with a core jet again, and interchangeable parts. That was really cool. Especially the sword parts. I also liked it when Lunamaria too over piloting it. The other thing that stuck out to me was Shinn VA Kira, where Kira lost. That was a really nice fight, one of my favorite from the whole franchise.

I'm liking AGE a shit ton better than SEED, SEED-D, and 00. Also Unicorn is awesome.

[Gunlord]

Man, the last Gundam series I watched was 00, and I didn't even check out the movie...im out of the Gundam loop. T_T