Topic: Us Wacky Castlevania Fans

[Abnormal Freak]

I dunno. Despite its differences in gameplay and art, SOTN just felt like a natural next step to me, and still felt, played, and looked like Castlevania. I never had any qualms with it when it came out; it fit right in with the best instantly.

[uzo]

Yeah, I agree that SotN was a natural progression in many ways. I also feel that Lords of Shadow is a natural progression of what we currently have for 3D titles. Maybe not exactly a natural progression of 2D Castlevanias to 3D, but it does seem like a natural progression starting from 64 -> LoI -> CoD -> LoS. I think part of the problem may be that the 64 title was not really a natural progression from Symphony, and that in itself spurred its own branch so to speak.

[RichterB]

Yeah, I agree that SotN was a natural progression in many ways. I also feel that Lords of Shadow is a natural progression of what we currently have for 3D titles. Maybe not exactly a natural progression of 2D Castlevanias to 3D, but it does seem like a natural progression starting from 64 -> LoI -> CoD -> LoS. I think part of the problem may be that the 64 title was not really a natural progression from Symphony, and that in itself spurred its own branch so to speak.

The way I see it, it's not that I'm looking for a "rehash" of the "spurred" 64 design, so much as I want to see that design take its natural course of evolution and show us what a more natural 3D Castlevania progression would be when taken to its limit. I wanted that N64 formula perfected visually, technically, and control-wise, before I see the series drastically split off again. For instance, theoretically, if the series had gone from Simon's Quest to SotN, the original NES CV1 formula would have maybe never reached its more complete and beautiful forms in games like Super Castlevania IV.

(The split we're seeing now as far as a re-imagining is kind of like Capcom's Ghosts 'n' Goblins and Maximo, though maybe more so?)

I think the last few posts by Uzo and Shelverton have reached a nice middle ground of understanding of where the problems are in all this. Basically, Castlevania is faced with a need to become more popular, and it's easier/safer for Konami to go with a more mainstream, proven formula than something that might be fine in its own right, but misunderstood by the gaming world. On the flip side, if it did do something of its own as the bulk of the game design, it might become the unique front-runner it used to be in the action-platforming-adventure genre. A sort of nice antithesis to the God of Wars and Devil May Crys. But that give-and-take in design (and art direction) is where the frustration is. (Regarding that art direction, there are splashes of CV, but I can't say IMO how much yet from what we've seen, and the larger divergences have left me uncertain).

Going back, I actually see a break between the N64 games and LoI, though I agree about the progression of LoI to LoS from looking at the popular genres of the time. The sad thing is that they didn't even stay consistent between LoI and CoD. It keeps switching its inspiration point, and both LoI and CoD were never refined in future games (LoI having more potential than CoD, IMO). It kept getting further away from the core of 3D Castlevania. LoS might be a step back in the right direction, but it's not the "revelatory, iconic leap" I want by this point after all the missteps and all the GBA/DS clones that got almost progressively watered down.

As for SotN, I agree that it took A LOT from Metroid...but it seemed to carry the essence of more of a Simon's Quest, which made it make sense for me as a one-off. As that style went on, though, I felt it diverged too far from the strengths of Castlevania. It was a shell of Castlevania, essentially.

I can see this relating to what happened to Ninja Gaiden on XBOX, as Shelverton noted. That wasn't the worst result, but I did miss the platforming and some of the artistic cues from the original Ninja Gaiden series. I have to say, I've never played Prince of Persia, despite seeing it a lot over the years. I know it has beam-balancing and pole-swinging, but I don't know how all the platforming mechanics work, so I'm not sure how that will translate into LoS.

One last thing (issue) in my rambling here: The story of LoS seems a bit too reminiscent of other stories and feels like it is being sandwiched into Castlevania. It reminds me of Shadow of the Colossus, where you slay "Villain X" to get power to bring your love back to life, but said power curses you with darkness. Moreover, the whole pieces of the runic mask remind me of the Fused Shadows from Zelda: Twilight Princess, which eventually turned into a mask with "immense power" when whole.

[Maedhros]

I don't know where to post this, but I kinda prefer any of the metroidvanias that were released after SOTN than SOTN. Of course, some of them have some aspects that are worse than SOTN (actually, music on these games will never be as good as SOTN), like DoS/PoR kiddyt visuals, but the innovations and increased difficult (which is my main grip with SOTN, easy as hell, and I hate easy games) make me prefer them.

That being said, I kinda want LoS to be sucessfull, these type of games (2D Metroidvanias) are getting a bit old, with no twists at all. That game screams Castlevania to me, since the first trailer. Castlevania was always about epic battles, exploration and platform, and that game looks like translating that well on 3D.

[shelverton.]

I kinda prefer any of the metroidvanias that were released after SOTN than SOTN. Of course, some of them have some aspects that are worse than SOTN (actually, music on these games will never be as good as SOTN), like DoS/PoR kiddyt visuals, but the innovations and increased difficult (which is my main grip with SOTN, easy as hell, and I hate easy games) make me prefer them.

I actually think SotN was harder than all of the GBA/DS Castlevanias. Except Circle of the Moon which was kinda challenging at times, especially towards the end. Of course, when I played SotN I had never really played anything like it so that may have something to do with it. By the time Order of Ecclesia was released, I was kinda awesome at Metroidvanias, lol. But I still died a few times. Though I was very surprised how reviewers described OoE as "very challenging". It's only ever challenging in the beginning when you're not that powerful. After that you become an 'effin godess of war!

[Thunderbrand]

SOTN definately had it's challenges, especially early on before you're HP/MP are up and you don't have the best weapons. However, even with weak stats, you're still greatly aided by the amazing controls (being able to switch direction mid-jump, then later the double jump, etc). Also, you can do spells without finding the spell scrolls. I remember discovering alot of spells on accident that way  

Once you get the Crissaergrim though, the game is over. You can finish it blindfolded. That sword is, in a word, unfair  

[MarquisX]

I actually think SotN was harder than all of the GBA/DS Castlevanias. Except Circle of the Moon which was kinda challenging at times, especially towards the end. Of course, when I played SotN I had never really played anything like it so that may have something to do with it. By the time Order of Ecclesia was released, I was kinda awesome at Metroidvanias, lol. But I still died a few times. Though I was very surprised how reviewers described OoE as "very challenging". It's only ever challenging in the beginning when you're not that powerful. After that you become an 'effin godess of war!

I've never heard that one before! Unless you mean in the deeper levels of the Inverted Castle and some of it's extra bosses. That's the only challenge I see in the game. Everything you need to do to finish the game is a cakewalk. The DS/GBA are easy too (exception of CotM, Julius Mode and OoE) but not as east as SotN. Goes to show how great the gameplay in SotN was that hardcore fans that normally like difficult games love this gem. OoE gets easy when you get better weapons and you learn the boss patterns. It's a game with a learning curve much like Castlevania 1 or 3. But I like to hear of your challenges in the SotN, please tell!

[Kale]

OoE was definitely more challenging for me. SotN was only hard the first time for me... because I was always on edge. Since I played it on my friend's playstation, and the idiot (obviously not my friend anymore) had no memory card. So I was like..... shit shit, I can't die and have to restart all over again! But you get so overpowered when you get around 4 hours in... less if you've played the game  a few times before, that you just don't have to worry anymore.

[MarquisX]

OoE was definitely more challenging for me. SotN was only hard the first time for me... because I was always on edge. Since I played it on my friend's playstation, and the idiot (obviously not my friend anymore) had no memory card. So I was like..... shit shit, I can't die and have to restart all over again! But you get so overpowered when you get around 4 hours in... less if you've played the game  a few times before, that you just don't have to worry anymore.

Wow, that reminds me when I first bought my PS1 and my first two games I bought with it were Reisdent Evil and Alien Trilogy. But I forgot to get a memory card. RE was pretty impossible without one, so I hear what you're saying!

[Vampire Killer]

Yes, I've noticed the hypocrisy.

I guess some of the old school fans won't be happy until a traditonal stage by stage 2D CV is made, and sold on XBLA and PSN.

Now THAT would be sweet.

Personally, I'd love to see a CV classic style Beat'em-up, a-la Final Fight.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

I liked Castlevania Adventure Rebirth.  That was s definite throwback and a great downloadable for Wii.
But I also like what I see so far of Lords of Shadow, and also like the MetroidVanias.

The only games I really dislike are the two PS2 games, only because of how ridiculously large and boring (but pretty) everything is.

[Vampire Killer]

The only games I really dislike are the two PS2 games, only because of how ridiculously large and boring (but pretty) everything is.

Especially the second one. That game proved without a doubt that Ita needs to stick to 2D.

[Abnormal Freak]

I feel LOI is a good game. Not great, but good. What it lacks in level design, it makes up for in great atmosphere. COD just...blows in every way except the music.

And yeah, The Adventure ReBirth is great. I've played through that one so many times already.

[Kale]

Especially the second one. That game proved without a doubt that Ita needs to stick to 2D.

Wait why? I actually really liked CoD. The levels were somewhat boring and very boring towards the end but it was really enjoyable for me.

[Vampire Killer]

Once you get the Crissaergrim though, the game is over. You can finish it blindfolded. That sword is, in a word, unfair  

Amen to that. That sword is like God's lawnmower, just cuts down anything in it's path almost instantly. Bosses included.

I pretty much never use it for that reason.