Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => Fan Stuff => Castlevania Dungeon Contests Board => Topic started by: Shiroi Koumori on January 01, 2015, 12:55:51 AM
-
Contest Details
Duration: From now until January 31st
Deadline for submissions: January 25th (11:59 PM PST)
Judgement: by forum poll from January 26th to January 30th at midnight and Winners announced when the votes are all in.
Theme: Convert a post-NES/SNES song into one befitting of one of the SNES/NES titles (i.e. Tocatta into Blood-Soaked Darkness in Akumajo Densetsu VRC6 chiptune or DXX/CV4 style or something like that)
Prizes: Award medals for the 1st, 2nd and 3rd place winners.
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FUPW6Q2q.gif&hash=61ce8a646063bba5d0ab5dc2399332a4)
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fcov6qgp.png&hash=e19263bd0cdd2eb7ffed7c3de518530b)
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FuyeDBFW.png&hash=2121df17d593da7b9e604e208dcf5cf2)
Guidelines for Participants:
- no deadline extensions
- post your entries as links on this thread
- contestants may update their entries freely before the submission deadline.
- you may withdraw any entry at any time before the judgement begins.
- the winner chooses next month's theme (if he/she declines, the forum members shall decide on the theme)
- the winner can enter the following month, but his entry should be counted as bonus
- get your midis here: Castlevania MIDI Music Collection (http://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/index.php/topic,7682.0.html)
Entries:
Chernabogue: Super Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow Full Soundtrack (2nd Place)
Super Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow OST (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gc7bvJzvJg#)
Dracula9: Circle of the Moon songs downmixed to Akumajo Densetsu VRC6 (1st Place)
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/aau8vwkn9qmsqyd/VisionofDarkSecrets.mp3 (http://www.mediafire.com/listen/aau8vwkn9qmsqyd/VisionofDarkSecrets.mp3)
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/z32xoddaynd124r/Inversion.mp3 (http://www.mediafire.com/listen/z32xoddaynd124r/Inversion.mp3)
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/xzh3bryau6bcax2/Awake.mp3 (http://www.mediafire.com/listen/xzh3bryau6bcax2/Awake.mp3)
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/fm58pkk75qed3pz/SinkingOldSanctuary.mp3 (http://www.mediafire.com/listen/fm58pkk75qed3pz/SinkingOldSanctuary.mp3)
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/iokwoubjk3b6dgr/Clockwork.mp3 (http://www.mediafire.com/listen/iokwoubjk3b6dgr/Clockwork.mp3)
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/rrz5a1lgmw91w2f/Shudder.mp3 (http://www.mediafire.com/listen/rrz5a1lgmw91w2f/Shudder.mp3)
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/h1hktjtjcwbxxra/GameOver.mp3 (http://www.mediafire.com/listen/h1hktjtjcwbxxra/GameOver.mp3)
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/5k90aeb3a6q28la/FatetoDespair.mp3 (http://www.mediafire.com/listen/5k90aeb3a6q28la/FatetoDespair.mp3)
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/ogi7i1g4kg9jick/Aquarius.mp3 (http://www.mediafire.com/listen/ogi7i1g4kg9jick/Aquarius.mp3)
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/31blgbmovvohuss/ClockworkMansion.mp3 (http://www.mediafire.com/listen/31blgbmovvohuss/ClockworkMansion.mp3)
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/8bsa4s4ujbe6uea/BigBattle.mp3 (http://www.mediafire.com/listen/8bsa4s4ujbe6uea/BigBattle.mp3)
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/h73qmmeh7sdzqz2/Nightmare.mp3 (http://www.mediafire.com/listen/h73qmmeh7sdzqz2/Nightmare.mp3)
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/9y5x0444oh9jyxh/VampireKiller.mp3 (http://www.mediafire.com/listen/9y5x0444oh9jyxh/VampireKiller.mp3)
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/gyu4oh402muu4yl/IllusionaryDance.mp3 (http://www.mediafire.com/listen/gyu4oh402muu4yl/IllusionaryDance.mp3)
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/cwdcmbcbktcdtbb/ProofofBlood.mp3 (http://www.mediafire.com/listen/cwdcmbcbktcdtbb/ProofofBlood.mp3)
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/zfrc89k5rlw8994/ReposeofSouls.mp3 (http://www.mediafire.com/listen/zfrc89k5rlw8994/ReposeofSouls.mp3)
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/8613zsu805yqsi6/CircleoftheMoon.mp3 (http://www.mediafire.com/listen/8613zsu805yqsi6/CircleoftheMoon.mp3)
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/2ats1na1ianzrx1/Simon'sTheme.mp3 (http://www.mediafire.com/listen/2ats1na1ianzrx1/Simon'sTheme.mp3)
-
Interesting. I'm not a big user of soundfonts, but it may end up being funny. :)
-
Excellent theme choice. :D I'll definitely put something together.
-
Bloodlines counts as valid? (count vlad lol)
-
Bloodlines counts as valid? (count vlad lol)
Given that the Genesis sound chip is somewhere between the NES and the SNES I'd say it wouldn't count as acceptable source material. They're looking for more advanced compositions to be reduced.
I'd go further and ask the scope of the contest be reduced as well. Pick NES or SNES, but not both. They're totally apples and oranges here. SNES might be pretty neat, since it's not done as much and has a little more flexibility to convert games of the CD quality era.
-
I'm kind of inclined to agree with you there, uzo, but my idea was to restrict to a specific game's sound style, rather than console limitations as a whole. Choosing only the NES - while retaining the game-specific theme - leaves only three games (possibly four counting Vampire Killer, but AFAIK I'm the only person with MSX sample rips, and even those are from the Metal Gears) to choose from. Likewise, choosing SNES only opts for SCVIV and DXX. I figured it was better to have a little bit of a broader range of possibilities, especially given that those choices would provide a decent challenge to the musicians here who don't really dabble in chiptunes.
And Lelygax, uzo is correct. Bloodlines I wasn't thinking of when coming up with the theme. More specifically I meant roughly songs from games PSX-generation and on, but it's easier to just say "post-SNES" than have to explain all the technicalities of the former.
-
NES + SNES is fine! Let's do Genesis another time! ^^ I'll do something that sounds like SC4 this time! :) Now to choose a theme... ;)
-
Is there a time limit for entries? Is remaking a whole OST okay? Can D9 and I enter this month this there was a tie?
-
By time limit, you mean, how long the song can play? I suppose there is none.
Whole OST? Yeah sure, but each song would have to be its own entry. Oh... the links....
Chern & D9's status? Hmmm... Since no one is joining much, yeah by all means since last month was a tie, join in guys!
-
By time limit, you mean, how long the song can play? I suppose there is none.
Whole OST? Yeah sure, but each song would have to be its own entry. Oh... the links....
Chern & D9's status? Hmmm... Since no one is joining much, yeah by all means since last month was a tie, join in guys!
Will do a whole OST for this month. Aaaaaaaand only ONE YouTube link (+ a DL link, or a bandcamp album), so no problem. :)
-
My entry: Super Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow Full Soundtrack (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gc7bvJzvJg) -- may provide a download link in the future.
Super Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow OST (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gc7bvJzvJg#)
-
Converting GBA to SNES is really a cop-out entry IMO. The sound capabilities of SNES and GBA not far off. In fact the SNES is actually more powerful in that regard, so it's not even a down-grade. If you're going to do GBA then make it NES so it's actually got some work put into it.
We really needed way tightener and thought out rules for this contest.
-
Please help me out on the rules, if you have something to share.
I just copy pasted what Drac9 said.
-
Converting GBA to SNES is really a cop-out entry IMO. The sound capabilities of SNES and GBA not far off. In fact the SNES is actually more powerful in that regard, so it's not even a down-grade. If you're going to do GBA then make it NES so it's actually got some work put into it.
We really needed way tightener and thought out rules for this contest.
And so what? I respected the theme, which is itself simple. The theme didn't precise that I had to use one perticular soundfont or source. Call my entry cop-out, let me see what you've got.
-
I was told to come up with a theme, not write the rules. Probably an oversight on my part.
I didn't think it needed to be broken down (it's not like it's asking for an arm and a leg; convert A into B and make sure it looks like a B), but since the original theme is mine, I imagine there's nothing against me explaining it for the OP.
-Entries must be songs from a Castlevania following the SNES (or if you prefer, chiptune) era. This roughly means everything SotN-onward. More specifically, the games whose songs cannot be used are CV1-3 (their FC counterparts included), Vampire Killer, SCVIV, DXX, and Bloodlines. Songs originally heard in these games that made reappearances in post-SNES titles, however, are allowed.
-Entries are expected to follow the hardware limitations of the chosen console style. This is as-follows:
>NES downmixes are to follow proper channel limitations (noise, triangle, DPCM, and two pulse channels), with expansions as necessary (extra three for VRC6, etc.).
>SNES downmixes do not necessarily have to follow the console's method of mid-song channel switching, but its maximum of twelve channels is not to be exceeded.
-Entries must emulate the chosen style of sound as accurately as the contestant is able to replicate. It would be advised, if needed, to study the songs of the style in question - and perhaps even load them into a soundchip player and isolate the channels - and see what makes the style tick. Selected listening is not mandatory, however.
-There are no rule reprimands for selecting a style similar to the downmixed song (converting a GBA game to a SNES sound, for instance, due to the similar nature of both console's soundchips), nor for conversions which might be deemed "too easy," like converting HoD songs into CV3's style (which HoD's soundstyle is an obvious callback to). Judges may have their own grievances and preferences, but due to the subjective nature of the matter this will not violate any rules and thus is allowed. No matter what the good Reverend might think.
There. My theme was not as poorly thought-out as you're suggesting. I merely forgot that the technicalities of this subject aren't as common knowledge to others as they are to me when typing up the proposal.
Converting GBA to SNES is really a cop-out entry IMO. The sound capabilities of SNES and GBA not far off. In fact the SNES is actually more powerful in that regard, so it's not even a down-grade. If you're going to do GBA then make it NES so it's actually got some work put into it.
We really needed way tightener and thought out rules for this contest.
it's 2015 and people still misuse "cop-out" what the fuck is this world coming to
I'd like to note that Chern got the gist, and AFAIK he doesn't even do chiptunes. The snide attitude is unnecessary.
-
It wasn't snide, but quite literal. He didn't even down mix. He went UP in sound technology and flexibility. That is against the spirit of the contest isn't it? If you're looking for a down mix then GBA should only go to Genesis (though I gather not an acceptable target system) or NES. I think you can see there by how picking GBA to SNES is really not fitting, and in a way a REALLY easy and safe pick.
If you want my take on the rules:
Advanced Chiptunes (GBA, DS) -> NES
Non-Chiptunes -> SNES or NES
Non-Acceptable Sources: SNES, NES, GEN
Call my entry cop-out, let me see what you've got.
I hope you're not implying that musicians are immune to criticisms from non-musicians? Or is your ego really that easily bruised?
Oh, Drac9, that was a snide remark there. Ya know, just so we know the difference.
-
Better part of seven years I've known you, I know when you've got your cheeky cap on. But the spirit of the contest isn't purely an NES-conversion, it calls for either SNES or NES/FC conversion. Had I originally made it a strictly 8-bit theme, Chern's entry would indeed be violating rules. But since I didn't, it's not. As I said in the long post, whether or not it's good is a matter of opinion. Is it an easy/safe route on a technical level? Yes, but there's no rule against that. And he also did the entire OST, which definitely is a show of work more than a single song. To me, that counts.
Figure I'll post mine. Circle of the Moon songs downmixed to Akumajo Densetsu VRC6.
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/7vlfglg4wf4f45d/ClockworkMansion.mp3 (http://www.mediafire.com/listen/7vlfglg4wf4f45d/ClockworkMansion.mp3)
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/damz6lvdbc04rsc/Clockwork.mp3 (http://www.mediafire.com/listen/damz6lvdbc04rsc/Clockwork.mp3)
I might go Chern's route and do 'em all. They convert nicely.
-
@Drac9: Go with Chern's route and convert em all! Just post everything in one place when they're done.
-
I hope you're not implying that musicians are immune to criticisms from non-musicians? Or is your ego really that easily bruised?
I'm not. I'd be understanding if your criticism focused on the music itself and not my choices. You didn't even commented on the music itself. I thought AoS would be perfect with SC4's soundfonts, since they both share a certain atmosphere.
If you want me to go with GBA -> NES, fine, I'll finish a few things a have to do and re-do HoD's soundtrack in NES format. Guess I won't have your vote in the end, eh? ;)
----
@Dracula9: Yeah, go for it, dude! :)
-
If you want me to go with GBA -> NES, fine, I'll finish a few things a have to do and re-do HoD's soundtrack in NES format.
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg1.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20120906010620%2Fdragonball%2Fimages%2Fthumb%2F9%2F90%2FAnnoyed-facepalm-picard-l.png%2F640px-Annoyed-facepalm-picard-l.png&hash=6f18bf9d5b7e7d3bcec160b57e514c16)
Oh come on, now you're just doing it on purpose. :P
Honestly if it was any random noob I wouldn't have batted much of an eye at it, but I know you're way better than easy conversions. I really expected a stand out entry from you.
@Dracula9: Well it's your baby now. If you want to accept UPmixes in what you seem to describe as a DOWNmix contest, then whatever.
-
Oh come on, now you're just doing it on purpose. :P
Honestly if it was any random noob I wouldn't have batted much of an eye at it, but I know you're way better than easy conversions. I really expected a stand out entry from you.
Well now don't tell me GBA sounds are similar to NES sounds. XD Maybe in terms of quality/composition? Wanted to do GBA since I have the complete soundtracks in MIDI format but maybe I'll find another source, like a PS2 game. :)
I appreciate you don't see me as a noob, but if you want some great entries from me, wait for a non-chiptune month (not my cup of tea). ;)
-
I don't know how well you know the technicalities of chiptunes and console soundchips uzo, but nothing posted has been an upmix in the sense you're making it. Easy routes, surely, but certainly nothing deserving of you treating Chern's entry like a pariah.
Converting Aria's songs into SCVIV's style only counts as an upmix on extremely mundane levels of what each console could support. Due to the GBA being a tiny handheld, it should be expected that it has less processing power than a console five times its size. So in that regard and that regard alone you're correct.
And what part of "he did the entire soundtrack" are you conveniently forgetting? He's done a good deal of work, which for someone known not to do chiptunes, samples, or soundfonts is a display of skill. Am I saying his Aria entry is perfect? No (could have done with a little bit more release time on the samples, Chern), but for being entirely out of his usual playing field I think he's done a fine job. But I'm not a judge, so what do I know, right?
Yes, converting HoD is an even easier route, since it reused a lot of CVIII's samples and styles, but it falls under the demands of the contest. Even I have to facepalm a little at it, but that's only because sampletunes and chiptunes are a practiced specialty of mine. Chern doesn't do it, so of course he's going to take paths of lesser resistance. It's not a lack of skill on his part, it's a safe play. He doesn't know the full technical ramifications that go with the territory of chiptunes, and it's not really something you can just up and get the swing of in a month. Expecting a "standout" entry from him is unfair of you, because you know this area isn't his forte. If he had more experience in chiptunes I have no doubt he'd be putting forth Emmy-nominated songs, but that's not the case.
Your opinion is not law. Are his entries upmixes? On a purely technical level, and a minute one at that, yes. But they sound good and fit the style adequately for him being out of his element.
Lose the attitude. I knew what to expect going in with this theme, so calling it "my baby now" is irrelevant. It was my baby from the start; you can't dump something you don't like on my lap like it's going to shame me or something. Save your snark and snide for after more entries get in.
-
Alright guys, cut the snarky remarks.
Remember, a bunch of random people who only bothered to listen to the samples and vote in the poll will be the judges. The simple rule is, if you don't like what a contestant submitted, don't vote, vote for someone else, or if you really hate this month's contest, then don't vote at all.
-
Well now don't tell me GBA sounds are similar to NES sounds. XD Maybe in terms of quality/composition?
Naw. More or less in that the HoD soundtrack makes very frequent use of primitive samples making it sound "8bit" a lot of times. They're almost like NES songs with the occasional other sample mixed in.
-
Just curious about a random thing... "HoD" is thrown around a bit, but could technically be one of two different games. Is there a common way either dungeonites or CV fans abbreviate and differentiate between Harmony of Dissonance and Harmony of Despair?
-
It's generally accepted that HoD is Harmony of Dissonance and HD is Harmony of Despair.
-
I am not an expert in this kind of stuff by any means so that's probably why you guys haven't got so much participation in this month's contest.
Is there an option where you guys could post a tutorial on how the process of coverting a post NES song into a SNES song or is it too in-depth like for novices to jump aboard?
-
There are a ton of different options for doing it. There's no single "right" method. You have more accurate programs like trackers, more flexible programs like FL (what I use), mixxcraft, etc., lesser-quality output converters like GSXCC (which contrary to popular belief does NOT emulate the NES, but rather the MSX), and various other methods.
-
Im by no means tryin to criticize or slam anyone but more or less asking what is involved with making these songs from midi to chiptune. Is it a simple conversion in the sense that all that is needed is loading the sondfont in a DAW then just putting the midi track on it? Basically, is the composer adding anything or merely using an already made midi file? If so I can see where some people can get pissed.
-
It can be that, yes. Personally I don't believe people have the right to get pissed about it if the musician states as such. I require a MIDI for basically every song I do, and I don't pretend any differently. If someone lies and tries to play it off like they did it themselves, however...that's another story.
But in the case of MIDI > chiptune, there's quite a few ways to do it, some better than others. There are instant conversion programs like GSXCC, which due to the nonexistant amount of effort required typically get slammed pretty hard. There's also opening up the MIDI in a program and replacing the MIDI channels with the chiptune sounds. From that method, there are those who export it as-is and pay no heed to console limitations, usually resulting in a shoddy conversion that gets understandably bricked. Then there's what I do, which constitutes breaking the MIDI up into the appropriate number of channels for whatever system I'm trying to emulate, load in the waveform samples, and from there add/replace/cut out parts as necessary to make sure no limits are being violated (i.e. having five channels' worth of stuff playing in a 2A03 NEs song, when there should only be four). If I'm doing an 8-bit system I then isolate the entire thing to one side and make it monaural.
In the defense of my method, I believe there's actually a degree more work required than, say, someone using a tracker, because FL Studio doesn't have the console restrictions built into it like a tracker does. But that's just my two cents.
-
It can be that, yes. Personally I don't believe people have the right to get pissed about it if the musician states as such. I require a MIDI for basically every song I do, and I don't pretend any differently. If someone lies and tries to play it off like they did it themselves, however...that's another story.
But in the case of MIDI > chiptune, there's quite a few ways to do it, some better than others. There are instant conversion programs like GSXCC, which due to the nonexistant amount of effort required typically get slammed pretty hard. There's also opening up the MIDI in a program and replacing the MIDI channels with the chiptune sounds. From that method, there are those who export it as-is and pay no heed to console limitations, usually resulting in a shoddy conversion that gets understandably bricked. Then there's what I do, which constitutes breaking the MIDI up into the appropriate number of channels for whatever system I'm trying to emulate, load in the waveform samples, and from there add/replace/cut out parts as necessary to make sure no limits are being violated (i.e. having five channels' worth of stuff playing in a 2A03 NEs song, when there should only be four). If I'm doing an 8-bit system I then isolate the entire thing to one side and make it monaural.
In the defense of my method, I believe there's actually a degree more work required than, say, someone using a tracker, because FL Studio doesn't have the console restrictions built into it like a tracker does. But that's just my two cents.
Makes sense, thanks for the info Drac9. I can see where there would be some editing involved with dissecting a midi file and making it fit where it needs to, be it channels/chip tune etc.
-
I stopped sharing a lot of my MIDI files because people would start to behave like assholes:
Type 1:
"Why are you sharing this MIDI file? It's too accurate. It's obvious that you just ripped it off of a ROM with a program"
-I've been doing video game MIDI files since before those programs existed.
Type 2:
"Why are you sharing this MIDI file? There are programs these days which can rip the data and it'll sound the same as what you did. Why even bother?"
-This is true for GBA, DS, 3DS (I think?), and PSX (I think?), where NOW there are programs that can rip the data and it'll actually be somewhat usable. But this wasn't always the case.
"Hey, can I have your MIDI file? I really like MIDI files and I need it for... reasons. Can I have it?" "Sure, it's here **shares link** or here **shares vgmusic.com URL if the file is older**
**somewhat later, while I'm watching something like a game's Facebook feed or something**
"HEY GUYS CHECK OUT MY AWESOME GAME REMIX"
**listens**
It appears to just be my MIDI file, passed through a sampler or a DAC.
Worst offenders:
"Check out my Retro Remix" = Just my MIDI run through GX-SCC
"Check out my Super Remix" = Just my MIDI run through a sampler, and used in FL Studio (maybe?), usually with a backbeat added to it.
"Check out my Orchestral Mix" = Just my MIDI run through the sampler with EWQLSO and channels muted so that it all sounds... stringy.
These are usually amateurish attempts but it irks me that they don't give even the slightest of credit (not all of them. Some do give credit and that's really nice). Others just take and take and then regurgitate it right back without a second thought.
-----------
Here's the procedure I use. It's probably easy for a musician, but hard for someone who doesn't know about note durations, beats, bars, etc.:
In the past, I used to just play an SPC (SNES Sound File) through Winamp with the SNESAMP plugin, which would allow me to isolate the channels, and would set the output to "Nullsoft Disk Writer". The result was a WAV file I could open in Sonic Foundry Sound Forge. This file usually was good enough that I could re-play the notes if I heard them enough times. Using this file, I was also able to decipher the tempo of a steady-tempo piece, by picking the four beats in a measure and running some Math. It would tell me the tempo if I had four quarter notes per beat. I would input this data into Noteworthy Composer, which is my MIDI Notation program of choice. The process would have to be repeated usually six times, as the SNES sound programmers usually would use up six channels of the SPC for music, and two for SoundFX.
Once all of the sound channels were hand-inputted into the MIDI program, by hand, I would add a repeat sign (x3) at the end, which would loop the music three times over if it was a stage theme or some other little ditty, otherwise I would just play until the song were to end. Once I have my file saved in the Noteworthy Format, I would 'export' a MIDI file.
Drawbacks:
-Since I was listening to the channel's WAV, older MIDI of mine have instrument changes in one channel. It was, at the time, the easiest way for me to work. Sadly, this also means that if someone were to take the MIDI and run it through a DAC, they would have to isolate instruments or duplicate the track however number of times an instrument was changed, and isolate the instrument so that you would hear silence for all but certain ones. I actually got E-mails from people complaining "Yo, why did you put so many instrument changes in one track? You should have one instrument per track". These people were usually trying to rip off the track or make a 'remix' of their own, but did not want to do their own work with regards to either creating their own music tracks, or creating their own instrumentation tracks by isolating properly.
-Because the method I used was fairly accurate, I was accused of 'just ripping to MIDI', for quite some time. This actually upset me enough where now I just don't share stuff. They want to get the notes? I hope they are willing to do their own work, or they can grab other people's MIDI files. I had a troll on Youtube downvote my Youtube videos. Turns out he's "A musician" and he was very vocally upset that people were +1ing or hitting Favorite on my videos, even though to him they were "just crappy MIDI conversions".
--------------
A lot of people don't realize that my notes are also set up to help pianists cope with not knowing the notes off-hand. Or people who know how to read sheet music but never developed an ear to replay parts. I can do things like this:
Clockwork from CVIII - Piano notes (http://jorgefuentes.inverteddungeon.com/images3/CV3-%20Clockwork%20(for%20piano).pdf)
Ridiculous sheet music for CVBloodlines's "Prayer of a Tragic Queen (http://jorgefuentes.inverteddungeon.com/images3/CVB-%20Prayer%20of%20a%20Tragic%20Queen3.pdf)
But honestly? Probably the biggest reason I no longer share MIDI files?
I've progressed enough where a MIDI file will not provide me with all of what I would like to convey in a tune.
Sure, I still can and do create a MIDI file (someone asked me to do something with Final Fantasy III and an unused battle theme), but now I can use VSTs and VSTi's to create effects, some of which rival what Michiru Yamane has been able to do with PSX/PS2 titles, such as adding background sound effects similar to the ones in SotN's "Abandoned Pit", or adding Flanging/Wah-Wah effects to guitars, like what she did with those synth samples used in DXC's "Moon Fight", etc. You just cannot do that with the limitations of General MIDI, even with the Roland GS Sound sets. You have to do further modifications, which requires a sampler/synthesizer.
RANT OVER
-
I stopped sharing a lot of my MIDI files because people would start to behave like assholes:
Type 1:
"Why are you sharing this MIDI file? It's too accurate. It's obvious that you just ripped it off of a ROM with a program"
-I've been doing video game MIDI files since before those programs existed.
Type 2:
"Why are you sharing this MIDI file? There are programs these days which can rip the data and it'll sound the same as what you did. Why even bother?"
-This is true for GBA, DS, 3DS (I think?), and PSX (I think?), where NOW there are programs that can rip the data and it'll actually be somewhat usable. But this wasn't always the case.
"Hey, can I have your MIDI file? I really like MIDI files and I need it for... reasons. Can I have it?" "Sure, it's here **shares link** or here **shares vgmusic.com URL if the file is older**
**somewhat later, while I'm watching something like a game's Facebook feed or something**
"HEY GUYS CHECK OUT MY AWESOME GAME REMIX"
**listens**
It appears to just be my MIDI file, passed through a sampler or a DAC.
Worst offenders:
"Check out my Retro Remix" = Just my MIDI run through GX-SCC
"Check out my Super Remix" = Just my MIDI run through a sampler, and used in FL Studio (maybe?), usually with a backbeat added to it.
"Check out my Orchestral Mix" = Just my MIDI run through the sampler with EWQLSO and channels muted so that it all sounds... stringy.
These are usually amateurish attempts but it irks me that they don't give even the slightest of credit (not all of them. Some do give credit and that's really nice). Others just take and take and then regurgitate it right back without a second thought.
-----------
Here's the procedure I use. It's probably easy for a musician, but hard for someone who doesn't know about note durations, beats, bars, etc.:
In the past, I used to just play an SPC (SNES Sound File) through Winamp with the SNESAMP plugin, which would allow me to isolate the channels, and would set the output to "Nullsoft Disk Writer". The result was a WAV file I could open in Sonic Foundry Sound Forge. This file usually was good enough that I could re-play the notes if I heard them enough times. Using this file, I was also able to decipher the tempo of a steady-tempo piece, by picking the four beats in a measure and running some Math. It would tell me the tempo if I had four quarter notes per beat. I would input this data into Noteworthy Composer, which is my MIDI Notation program of choice. The process would have to be repeated usually six times, as the SNES sound programmers usually would use up six channels of the SPC for music, and two for SoundFX.
Once all of the sound channels were hand-inputted into the MIDI program, by hand, I would add a repeat sign (x3) at the end, which would loop the music three times over if it was a stage theme or some other little ditty, otherwise I would just play until the song were to end. Once I have my file saved in the Noteworthy Format, I would 'export' a MIDI file.
Drawbacks:
-Since I was listening to the channel's WAV, older MIDI of mine have instrument changes in one channel. It was, at the time, the easiest way for me to work. Sadly, this also means that if someone were to take the MIDI and run it through a DAC, they would have to isolate instruments or duplicate the track however number of times an instrument was changed, and isolate the instrument so that you would hear silence for all but certain ones. I actually got E-mails from people complaining "Yo, why did you put so many instrument changes in one track? You should have one instrument per track". These people were usually trying to rip off the track or make a 'remix' of their own, but did not want to do their own work with regards to either creating their own music tracks, or creating their own instrumentation tracks by isolating properly.
-Because the method I used was fairly accurate, I was accused of 'just ripping to MIDI', for quite some time. This actually upset me enough where now I just don't share stuff. They want to get the notes? I hope they are willing to do their own work, or they can grab other people's MIDI files. I had a troll on Youtube downvote my Youtube videos. Turns out he's "A musician" and he was very vocally upset that people were +1ing or hitting Favorite on my videos, even though to him they were "just crappy MIDI conversions".
--------------
A lot of people don't realize that my notes are also set up to help pianists cope with not knowing the notes off-hand. Or people who know how to read sheet music but never developed an ear to replay parts. I can do things like this:
Clockwork from CVIII - Piano notes (http://jorgefuentes.inverteddungeon.com/images3/CV3-%20Clockwork%20(for%20piano).pdf)
Ridiculous sheet music for CVBloodlines's "Prayer of a Tragic Queen (http://jorgefuentes.inverteddungeon.com/images3/CVB-%20Prayer%20of%20a%20Tragic%20Queen3.pdf)
But honestly? Probably the biggest reason I no longer share MIDI files?
I've progressed enough where a MIDI file will not provide me with all of what I would like to convey in a tune.
Sure, I still can and do create a MIDI file (someone asked me to do something with Final Fantasy III and an unused battle theme), but now I can use VSTs and VSTi's to create effects, some of which rival what Michiru Yamane has been able to do with PSX/PS2 titles, such as adding background sound effects similar to the ones in SotN's "Abandoned Pit", or adding Flanging/Wah-Wah effects to guitars, like what she did with those synth samples used in DXC's "Moon Fight", etc. You just cannot do that with the limitations of General MIDI, even with the Roland GS Sound sets. You have to do further modifications, which requires a sampler/synthesizer.
RANT OVER
+1,000,000
Exactly. I can vouch for how big of a pain in the ass it can be for people to blatantly rip off your work. Which i know in cases like what we do on here (being CV tunes) its a double standard considering all we are doing is working with CV mixes anyways, but in my case i ALWAYS try to add a little here and there to put my stamp on it, hell, even extending tracks with original pieces that just fit the mood of the track to spice it up and make it stand out more from all the other 8 billion remixes out there of the same tune. And then when you do like Jorge mentioned and be the nice guy, you get shit on later seeing someone getting props for their "original spin" on a track that you made yourself. Im also with you on the VST's, that IMO is the way to go. Anything CV related anymore i have to have those in there. MIDI can be made to sound great, but when you pair those up with the VST's out there you can achieve just like you said dude, Yamane is very easily in reach. And there are several platforms to do it with, Roland, Sonatina, EDIROL (that's been my latest flavor, sounds more natural to me). To close it out, when you take someone's ready made track, be it midi, chip tune (converted to midi to use with those plugins) and aren't rolling up your sleeves and actually putting the notes in there, it's like being in a cover band with a drum machine playing the beats; just aint the same deal, and the majority of people will understand that and give their input accordingly.
-
HEY JORGE CAN I HAVE YOUR X68000 MIDIS I CAN NEVER FIND THE RIGHT PROGRAMS TO DO IT
;)
But yeah, as someone who basically requires a MIDI base-coat, it annoys the shit out of me when people blatantly try and take credit for something someone else wrote, or ripped. Now, when I use your stock VGMusic MIDIs, I rarely credit their composers; not out of credit-stealing or anything, but since I tend to stick to a few select composers (KingMeteor KINGMETEOR KINGMETEOR) most of the time it's no secret where they're coming from. Plus they uploaded their works as PD, so I don't personally feel full credits are as necessary (original songs/medleys or remix MIDIs, or anything that deviates from the original tune I give implicit credit on, however).
However, when I have to get them from a specific source, I'm fairly big on crediting that source (it's rare that this happens, I mostly do MIDI rips/conversions myself). Just never really occurred to me to not do it.
And I also was present during the reign of donlicht and other thieving people, so I've seen the damage and frustration it causes, and I try to avoid putting anyone through that where I can help it.
so can i have those midis or what ;)
-
so can i have those midis or what ;)
so, what are you trying to say drac9????? :P I kid, I kid ;D
-
Just playing on an inside joke of-sorts.
I asked Jorge where he got them awhile back, and after telling me they were from a private source, told me the tools to do it. I didn't take the names down and have asked him again (like what, three or four other times?) what they were, and every time he tells me I always forget.
YAY INCOMPETENCE
-
Lol
-
Facebook Message logs, dude! :P
LOL perhaps I will make a post, so that everyone benefits.
-
LAST MINUTE AW SHIT
Only two songs not present are Requiem and Sign of a Pulse (Tragedy's Pulse? ;)), mostly because I simply ran out of time.
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/aau8vwkn9qmsqyd/VisionofDarkSecrets.mp3 (http://www.mediafire.com/listen/aau8vwkn9qmsqyd/VisionofDarkSecrets.mp3)
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/z32xoddaynd124r/Inversion.mp3 (http://www.mediafire.com/listen/z32xoddaynd124r/Inversion.mp3)
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/xzh3bryau6bcax2/Awake.mp3 (http://www.mediafire.com/listen/xzh3bryau6bcax2/Awake.mp3)
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/fm58pkk75qed3pz/SinkingOldSanctuary.mp3 (http://www.mediafire.com/listen/fm58pkk75qed3pz/SinkingOldSanctuary.mp3)
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/iokwoubjk3b6dgr/Clockwork.mp3 (http://www.mediafire.com/listen/iokwoubjk3b6dgr/Clockwork.mp3)
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/rrz5a1lgmw91w2f/Shudder.mp3 (http://www.mediafire.com/listen/rrz5a1lgmw91w2f/Shudder.mp3)
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/h1hktjtjcwbxxra/GameOver.mp3 (http://www.mediafire.com/listen/h1hktjtjcwbxxra/GameOver.mp3)
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/5k90aeb3a6q28la/FatetoDespair.mp3 (http://www.mediafire.com/listen/5k90aeb3a6q28la/FatetoDespair.mp3)
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/ogi7i1g4kg9jick/Aquarius.mp3 (http://www.mediafire.com/listen/ogi7i1g4kg9jick/Aquarius.mp3)
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/31blgbmovvohuss/ClockworkMansion.mp3 (http://www.mediafire.com/listen/31blgbmovvohuss/ClockworkMansion.mp3)
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/8bsa4s4ujbe6uea/BigBattle.mp3 (http://www.mediafire.com/listen/8bsa4s4ujbe6uea/BigBattle.mp3)
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/h73qmmeh7sdzqz2/Nightmare.mp3 (http://www.mediafire.com/listen/h73qmmeh7sdzqz2/Nightmare.mp3)
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/9y5x0444oh9jyxh/VampireKiller.mp3 (http://www.mediafire.com/listen/9y5x0444oh9jyxh/VampireKiller.mp3)
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/gyu4oh402muu4yl/IllusionaryDance.mp3 (http://www.mediafire.com/listen/gyu4oh402muu4yl/IllusionaryDance.mp3)
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/cwdcmbcbktcdtbb/ProofofBlood.mp3 (http://www.mediafire.com/listen/cwdcmbcbktcdtbb/ProofofBlood.mp3)
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/zfrc89k5rlw8994/ReposeofSouls.mp3 (http://www.mediafire.com/listen/zfrc89k5rlw8994/ReposeofSouls.mp3)
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/8613zsu805yqsi6/CircleoftheMoon.mp3 (http://www.mediafire.com/listen/8613zsu805yqsi6/CircleoftheMoon.mp3)
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/2ats1na1ianzrx1/Simon'sTheme.mp3 (http://www.mediafire.com/listen/2ats1na1ianzrx1/Simon'sTheme.mp3)
-
Alrighty... poll's up. Time to vote!
-
Goddamnit people, only me and Chern pitted against one another and it's already a tie again.
VOTE OR DIE BITCHES, VOTE OR DIE
-
You got my vote bro. It's tied again apparently.
-
Nice job, D9. Even if I think downmixing tracks like "VK" or "Nightmare" is funny :D
-
It really is. I had to try and make sure the CVIII ones didn't sound exactly like the originals. :rollseyes:
-
As of today, Drac9 is in the lead.
Better start thinking about the theme for next month, or if no one's gonna join, we can take a break.
-
Make sure that you do something more open for next time so that we get more people involved in the contest. I usually try to think of a hard contest, then a easy one, etc. rinse repeat...
How about a team-based contest for next month?
-
Make your own new Castlevania Game Over jingle? That should be simple enough. They're something like 5-8 seconds long I think.
-
IIRC we briefly discussed a romantic remix theme when discussing a theme for the December contest, why not that for February? It's topical, after all. :V
-
What about opening the flood gates a bit? Pick either a system with any cv title for it or even a title specific, and make it open to any and all styles? I think by just picking (and please, NO OFFENSE FELLAS!) a specific music format you are severely limiting contestant entries. That would be like me saying "ok folks, lets just have a heavy metal remix month only. I think maybe Zannibal would be the only other contestant lol. Or for that matter, make a poll for the public to decide. Instead of us giving them themes, lets have them give us one. Remember, its competition but its all for fun 8)
-
Having a theme to a contest gives it a little more originality. It also makes a great baseline for judging. You can compare the parts of each entry much more closely.
Beyond that having some rules really brings out the creativity, not stifles it. This month we see Dracula9 admitting to have to think of new ways to make the CV3 tracks work in the NES sound font without being the same track as CV3. It takes creativity to make that change, not a lack of it.
Beyond that even, and the part I think is most interesting, is it helps our artists grow. We're making situations where our contestants are trying new things. Things they aren't familiar with. And these can teach them many things, and often better, than if they were just given free reign all the time. I bet even Chern noticed or learned something new, even if very small, or interesting by doing this month's theme which he has stated he doesn't do chiptunes.
A free for all once in a while isn't bad though. But really consider what themed contests bring to the table.
-
Having a theme to a contest gives it a little more originality. It also makes a great baseline for judging. You can compare the parts of each entry much more closely.
Beyond that having some rules really brings out the creativity, not stifles it. This month we see Dracula9 admitting to have to think of new ways to make the CV3 tracks work in the NES sound font without being the same track as CV3. It takes creativity to make that change, not a lack of it.
Beyond that even, and the part I think is most interesting, is it helps our artists grow. We're making situations where our contestants are trying new things. Things they aren't familiar with. And these can teach them many things, and often better, than if they were just given free reign all the time. I bet even Chern noticed or learned something new, even if very small, or interesting by doing this month's theme which he has stated he doesn't do chiptunes.
A free for all once in a while isn't bad though. But really consider what themed contests bring to the table.
I completely agree dude. As I saidim not bashing anyone, I think what is gwtting brought is great. I agree with everything except for the lacking anything part. I dont feel that anythinf is lacking in what has been done thus far, and as you mentioned, it helps musicians broaden the scope of their abilities and challenge themselves, I simply meant that limiting the platform of the contest - for example, chiptune only, rock, metal only etc etc is the only thing that IMO puts the brakes on other members involvement.
-
Agreed with uzo. It was interesting to try something I've never done before. :)
IIRC we briefly discussed a romantic remix theme when discussing a theme for the December contest, why not that for February? It's topical, after all. :V
That'd be nice for a Valentine's Day month ^^
-
Ha! My romantic remix is getting traction. hehehe.
-
CONTEST MERGER IDEA THAT SHOULD MOST DEFINITELY BE TAKEN SUPER SERIOUS
Sprite/draw something involving a female Belmont and a Succubus and compose a love song to go with it.
LET THE IMAGINATIONS AND NSFW FLAGS COMETH
-
Having a theme to a contest gives it a little more originality. It also makes a great baseline for judging. You can compare the parts of each entry much more closely.
Beyond that having some rules really brings out the creativity, not stifles it. This month we see Dracula9 admitting to have to think of new ways to make the CV3 tracks work in the NES sound font without being the same track as CV3. It takes creativity to make that change, not a lack of it.
Beyond that even, and the part I think is most interesting, is it helps our artists grow. We're making situations where our contestants are trying new things. Things they aren't familiar with. And these can teach them many things, and often better, than if they were just given free reign all the time. I bet even Chern noticed or learned something new, even if very small, or interesting by doing this month's theme which he has stated he doesn't do chiptunes.
A free for all once in a while isn't bad though. But really consider what themed contests bring to the table.
True, but if you guys are going to make technical contests like that you should provide references or tutorials for noobs that never had any experience doing something like that before. This contest was a severe example of people that wanted to participate but didn't have the technical knowledge to do anything, even if they wanted to. Hence, only the few entries.
This made the contest seem like it was tailored to a just hand full of participants.
When I made the 3D contests, I also provided links to free modeling tools and tutorials on that net that let's say if someone that never modeled anything in their life, they could choose a free program, watch a few tutorials, and make some work even if it was a little rough around the edges.
I can honestly say at least for me I didn't even know where to start with this month's music contest.
Maybe you guys can implement those kind of resources in the future...?
-
stuff
I provided links to MIDI files in a posted here, but maybe a short tutorial/software recomendation could help. :)
-
I provided links to MIDI files in a posted here, but maybe a short tutorial/software recomendation could help. :)
Exactly dude. For you guys it's like child play, but you gotta make the tutorials/software recommendations in a way where if someone just happened to stumble across these contests and had no clue how to do this stuff, they could at least jump in and get their feet wet!
-
Exactly dude. For you guys it's like child play, but you gotta make the tutorials/software recommendations in a way where if someone just happened to stumble across these contests and had no clue how to do this stuff, they could at least jump in and get their feet wet!
I'll try to make a short FL Studio tutorial when I have more free time. Just the really basic stuff, and then link to more advanced ones.
-
I'm still writing my huge dissertation on what to do about music/MIDI/chiptune stuff....
Don't hold your breath, though. It'll be a h'while.
-
*points to my post summarizing multiple methods of doing this stuff*
*points to the unfinished guide Jorge's working on*
*points to Jorge's long post earlier in the thread*
*points to BMC's reply to said post*
:/
A thing to consider; if one has no skills in a certain field, why on earth would they suddenly leap into a contest with seasoned people? Or leap into a contest at all?
Leaving tutorials for every little thing is nice and all (personally I think the resource threads cover most of it), but you can only help for so long before you're just needlessly holding someone's hand through everything.
People should be allowed to follow their own path and develop their own unique style of doing things, especially if it's something musically or artistically-related. Putting up detailed "here's how I do things" threads runs the risk of newcomers trying too hard to emulate some else's style due to their lack of experience, instead of developing their own style.
I never read up on any threads, or tutorials, or what-have-you, I learned through trial and error what function did what or what plugin sounded best. It's great what you're trying to do, but it seems to me that you're treating this thread like it was catered specifically to certain people and shut out others. I can't help but take offense to that. It's true the theme coincided with what I usually do anyway, but that's only because it's something I know enough about to reasonably make a ruleset, and also because I know not many of our resident Abbadons do chiptunes.
Contests are supposed to be fun and enjoyable, yes, but they're also supposed to pit you against any other potential person. The competition is meant to motivate you to do better than all the others, and thus improve or expand your skillset.
This contest was a severe example of people that wanted to participate but didn't have the technical knowledge to do anything, even if they wanted to.
*points to my post summarizing multiple methods of doing this stuff*
*points to the unfinished guide Jorge's working on*
*points to Jorge's long post earlier in the thread*
*points to BMC's reply to said post*
I don't agree with dumbing this sort of thing down to make things easier for new practitioners. I'm sorry, I just don't. You don't get better when everything's a cakewalk and your hand is held the entire time. You get better when faced with adversity and challenge.
Do I agree with your desire for music-program links and basic tutorials? Definitely.
Do I agree with your seeming resignation and accusation that this contest was rigged for certain members? Fuck no, and I'm sincerely hoping I'm misinterpreting here, otherwise my offense to it is legitimate.
Tutorials for most plugins and methods and functions for most music programs litter the web, and the F1 button is definitely a thing. People are certainly capable of looking in this stuff on their own time and in their own way. They don't need coddling.
Yes, I know dumping the "Google it, noob" plate on someone's lap can be overwhelming or intimidating and very possibly elitist; however, there's a line between holding someone's hand so that they never feel intimidated or challenged, and remaining reasonably ambiguous on certain things so that they can develop their own style. And I'm having a really hard time figuring out what side of the line you're currently on, darkman. Help a brother out.
-
I also learned from tests/errors (you can still find some of my earlier and crappy works on YouTube lol), but helping a little other people won't hurt, especially if we have more entries. :)
-
*points to my post summarizing multiple methods of doing this stuff*
*points to the unfinished guide Jorge's working on*
*points to Jorge's long post earlier in the thread*
*points to BMC's reply to said post*
:/
A thing to consider; if one has no skills in a certain field, why on earth would they suddenly leap into a contest with seasoned people? Or leap into a contest at all?
Leaving tutorials for every little thing is nice and all (personally I think the resource threads cover most of it), but you can only help for so long before you're just needlessly holding someone's hand through everything.
People should be allowed to follow their own path and develop their own unique style of doing things, especially if it's something musically or artistically-related. Putting up detailed "here's how I do things" threads runs the risk of newcomers trying too hard to emulate some else's style due to their lack of experience, instead of developing their own style.
I never read up on any threads, or tutorials, or what-have-you, I learned through trial and error what function did what or what plugin sounded best. It's great what you're trying to do, but it seems to me that you're treating this thread like it was catered specifically to certain people and shut out others. I can't help but take offense to that. It's true the theme coincided with what I usually do anyway, but that's only because it's something I know enough about to reasonably make a ruleset, and also because I know not many of our resident Abbadons do chiptunes.
Contests are supposed to be fun and enjoyable, yes, but they're also supposed to pit you against any other potential person. The competition is meant to motivate you to do better than all the others, and thus improve or expand your skillset.
*points to my post summarizing multiple methods of doing this stuff*
*points to the unfinished guide Jorge's working on*
*points to Jorge's long post earlier in the thread*
*points to BMC's reply to said post*
I don't agree with dumbing this sort of thing down to make things easier for new practitioners. I'm sorry, I just don't. You don't get better when everything's a cakewalk and your hand is held the entire time. You get better when faced with adversity and challenge.
Do I agree with your desire for music-program links and basic tutorials? Definitely.
Do I agree with your seeming resignation and accusation that this contest was rigged for certain members? Fuck no, and I'm sincerely hoping I'm misinterpreting here, otherwise my offense to it is legitimate.
Tutorials for most plugins and methods and functions for most music programs litter the web, and the F1 button is definitely a thing. People are certainly capable of looking in this stuff on their own time and in their own way. They don't need coddling.
Yes, I know dumping the "Google it, noob" plate on someone's lap can be overwhelming or intimidating and very possibly elitist; however, there's a line between holding someone's hand so that they never feel intimidated or challenged, and remaining reasonably ambiguous on certain things so that they can develop their own style. And I'm having a really hard time figuring out what side of the line you're currently on, darkman. Help a brother out.
Not really trying to take any side bro, I'm just offering suggestions and maybe the next Music contest would benefit from it.
If you notice the amount of posts that people put on the thread about the intricacies of the contest (almost to the very end)then that alone should let you know that this contest needed some adjustments. The number of participants this month should speak for itself.
And I don't mean that in a bad way because the same thing could be said about my sprite contest for this month, but no one really complained about it and I put out a PDF to combat any issues about people telling me that they didn't have any ideas so at least I tried in that regard.
All I am saying is that is if one has no skills in a certain field how would they even know that this was a contest that was for JUST seasoned veterans?
The same thing could be said about any of the contests because we all have different disciplines and degrees of technical knowledge.
That doesn't mean that people with little or no experience can't try or get better.
We have already seen many members step outside of the comfort zones to trying things that they normally don't do because of these contests and we have even had many members who skills may have been a little ameturish start to become solid Sprite Artists and such and even place 1st in these contests!
This was the point I was trying to make:
Exactly dude. For you guys it's like child play, but you gotta make the tutorials/software recommendations in a way where if someone just happened to stumble across these contests and had no clue how to do this stuff, they could at least jump in and get their feet wet!
I DID see your post but the way you explained it was in a way where you where talking so technical that it went over my head. No one's trying to say you didn't try to help but for me I didn't get anything because I never tried to do anything like this before. That didn't mean that I didn't want to.
No one is saying either that you have to hold someone's hand through everything, but like anything else everyone starts from somewhere.
What is the difference between someone posting a sprite or a 3D model in a contest and getting feedback for their entry? The same thing applies here.
-
A thing to consider; if one has no skills in a certain field, why on earth would they suddenly leap into a contest with seasoned people? Or leap into a contest at all?
I did! The Food Sprite contest was my first time ever trying to sprite. I really kinda sucked at it...not in any drastic sense, but just the sense that I lack finer skills...I'm a noob. :-)
I get what all you're saying though, and what darkmanx says. "Tips and pointers" from the experienced are nice because they may lead me to shortcuts or whatever that they've discovered, or maybe they can summarize really well and save me from having to read Jorges dissertation! ;-P If/when I (personally) copy them, it's just to see how things work -- a first step in carving my own path. It may only be my word, and there are those out there whose word isn't worth much, but I wouldn't sell something like that as my own creative genius.
Plus, those with experience (potentially) know of good tutorials, or materials for using. In the pixel contest, I wouldn't have known I could use Paint if someone hadn't suggested it. I appreciate recommendations like that.
I wouldn't mind trying my hand at this music stuff too...for no good reason, I just have an interest in these things and have for awhile. It's these contests here, and the tips and suggestions of the pros that are the "oomph" for me to finally, actually get up and do something -- to look into it and give it a try!
So...sure, point me in whatever direction...give me some ideas how to start and how it works...it's kinda my "research" for starting a project. But I get not wanting to hold someone's hand. For me, I don't think it'd be long before I'd be pulling away and wanting to do it on my own anyway. :-)
-
I did! The Food Sprite contest was my first time ever trying to sprite. I really kinda sucked at it...not in any drastic sense, but just the sense that I lack finer skills...I'm a noob. :-)
I get what all you're saying though, and what darkmanx says. "Tips and pointers" from the experienced are nice because they may lead me to shortcuts or whatever that they've discovered, or maybe they can summarize really well and save me from having to read Jorges dissertation! ;-P If/when I (personally) copy them, it's just to see how things work -- a first step in carving my own path. It may only be my word, and there are those out there whose word isn't worth much, but I wouldn't sell something like that as my own creative genius.
Plus, those with experience (potentially) know of good tutorials, or materials for using. In the pixel contest, I wouldn't have known I could use Paint if someone hadn't suggested it. I appreciate recommendations like that.
I wouldn't mind trying my hand at this music stuff too...for no good reason, I just have an interest in these things and have for awhile. It's these contests here, and the tips and suggestions of the pros that are the "oomph" for me to finally, actually get up and do something -- to look into it and give it a try!
So...sure, point me in whatever direction...give me some ideas how to start and how it works...it's kinda my "research" for starting a project. But I get not wanting to hold someone's hand. For me, I don't think it'd be long before I'd be pulling away and wanting to do it on my own anyway. :-)
My point exactly! I would love try a music contest too just because I never done anything musical before and I would just like to see how I could do at it!
Maybe I would even like it, and a contest like this would be something that I could get interested in and finish a piece to completion.
P.S. And Android, your sprite didn't suck at all.
-
Yeah, I get all that, but when you explicitly state "yeah I know you posted stuff to help but it was too technical and I didn't get it" what the hell am I supposed to take from it? Help, but don't explain how the stuff actually works? Dumb things down so nobody's confused?
At the end of it, nothing was really stopping you from entering. Most music software has free demos, and it's not hard to import a MIDI and replace its channels. A lot of the time these programs have little "welcome!" popups that show all the basics.
It's not fair to blame the contest makers or anything when there is nothing objectively stopping you from entering. If you wanted to enter you could have. I explained exactly how I do chiptunes, and a few other methods. It's not my fault if you didn't understand the technicalities. And why wait until the END of the contest to chime in about that? Why not bring it up at a point where it could be addressed early enough for you to still enter?
Again, I'm ALL for tips and pointers, I really am. Contrary to what it might appear, I DO remember being the noob who didn't know anything. So I know how important little tips and pointers and howtos are. However, that's a tough thing to generalize. Could we make a guide summing up everything? Sure, but there'd be so much information (however simplified it would be) that new people would likely be intimidated. As I said, there's no "right" way to do music.
I'm in favor of helping new folks, but to be honest I'd like to actually see a little initiative on their part. This is where my hand-holding comment comes into play. I'll help people period if I'm able, but it makes things a lot easier on everyone when I'm helping someone who helps themselves. You don't have to know the correct questions to ask, you simply have to ask.
And motion seconded, android. That was great for a first attempt. :)
-
Yeah, I get all that, but when you explicitly state "yeah I know you posted stuff to help but it was too technical and I didn't get it" what the hell am I supposed to take from it? Help, but don't explain how the stuff actually works? Dumb things down so nobody's confused?
At the end of it, nothing was really stopping you from entering. Most music software has free demos, and it's not hard to import a MIDI and replace its channels. A lot of the time these programs have little "welcome!" popups that show all the basics.
It's not fair to blame the contest makers or anything when there is nothing objectively stopping you from entering. If you wanted to enter you could have. I explained exactly how I do chiptunes, and a few other methods. It's not my fault if you didn't understand the technicalities. And why wait until the END of the contest to chime in about that? Why not bring it up at a point where it could be addressed early enough for you to still enter?
Again, I'm ALL for tips and pointers, I really am. Contrary to what it might appear, I DO remember being the noob who didn't know anything. So I know how important little tips and pointers and howtos are. However, that's a tough thing to generalize. Could we make a guide summing up everything? Sure, but there'd be so much information (however simplified it would be) that new people would likely be intimidated. As I said, there's no "right" way to do music.
I'm in favor of helping new folks, but to be honest I'd like to actually see a little initiative on their part. This is where my hand-holding comment comes into play. I'll help people period if I'm able, but it makes things a lot easier on everyone when I'm helping someone who helps themselves. You don't have to know the correct questions to ask, you simply have to ask.
And motion seconded, android. That was great for a first attempt. :)
Dude, you are totally missing the point of my post and seeming to be taking this personally and if you think I was specifically calling you out, I wasn't and I apologize. I'm not blaming anyone for anything regarding me entering I am merely offering suggestions on how to make the contest more open in the future and judging from the people that are responding I am not the only one. This is a public forum.
It doesn't matter if I mentioned this at the beginning or the end of the contest because well, I know we are going to have more contest and I have an interest in possibly participating in one and I thought that you wanted more participation in the music contests!
You said it yourself that this contest was for "seasoned" people well, that just alienates a whole part of the fan-base. Nothing is wrong with that, but I will mention it again, nowhere did it state that about this contest!
You mention that most of "these" programs have welcome blurbs or whatever, but then you fail to mention which ones...
Not that my way is the right way, but I mentioned the resources I post for the 3D contest.
Lets me break it down...
Let's see, this was the theme: Convert a post-NES/SNES song into one befitting of one of the SNES/NES titles (i.e. Tocatta into Blood-Soaked Darkness in Akumajo Densetsu VRC6 chiptune or DXX/CV4 style or something like that)
Now how does that look to someone that has never done anything with music? Hmmm..well maybe I could google: "covert a nes song into a snes song"...
google lists a bunch of nothing and songs fans already converted with no tutorials...
after some extensive searching..I find a program call nsf2midi...ok from what I see it basically takes the sound format from a nes track and just turns it into a MIDI format that you can save... that doesn't really sound like what we are doing here...
See what I mean?
What is so hard about making a few bullet points so people could jump in?
STEP1: DL VRC6 Chiptune
STEP2: GET A NES TRACK
STEP3: GET A SNES TRACK
STEP4: DO THIS TO THIS
STEP 5: SAVE LIKE THIS etc.
(I don't know anything about this..lol)
The way you explain it or seeming don't want to "dumb it down" would be like me asking someone who never picked up Maya to model a character watertight, with SPEC, NORMAL, and GLOSS maps and then make sure it's game ready to be exported into another game engine and keep it under 10,000 TRIS....how the heck are they going to know what I even mean or even to start the process...
-
Jesus, why is it that when some of us on here get critiqued or asked for info/help/explanation etc that some get massive butthurt? All this was meant to be was another outlet on the forums that could and shouldbe fun!! Sorry, but Drac, dude, you need to chill dude. :rollseyes: A few posts back, Uzo mentioned the entries being a cop-out. What do you do? You jump his ass. Then you defend what you've submitted by stating that only "seasoned" veterans get how this stuff works, how this month's contest was meant to be. Well, count me in. I can elaborate: Let me start off giving everyone some info on how i do my music. Lets use my incomplete entry from last month for example. First off, i load my DAW (Digital Audio Workstation), then i start on my drums first. This is done with EZDrummer, a virtual instrument plugin that simulates a studio recorded drum kit (which is bad ass by the way!) This is the first part of the puzzle that is not a real instrument. This is were MIDI comes into play (and where IMO things get REALLY interesting, especially on this thread!). You add a new midi track (which, if you are using your own music, will be blank, then you will notice a keyboard to the left of the screen. These are your notes. Picture these like channels on a TV. When you change a channel, you get something different. Same principle. When you add notes to different keys, you get different results i e note A4 could be a bass drum, etc etc per different keys. Pretty simple right? Oh yeah, didn't hold any hands in saying this either :rollseyes: next, i tracked the symphony plugin i use (which again,is a blank UNUSED, UNEDITED...in other words, no one has made this and i used it, but CLAIM its MY remix by changing 1 or 2 notes) another midi track. Now, this is where the midi channels come in. Unless i am wrong, the limit was 8 channels. What this equals out to, is that with this "chiptune" plugin is that out of X number of channels it has, only 8 can be applied. So, to sum that up, say you have a harpsicord, horns, string section, percussion and so on, that exceeded 8 tracks, then all that was, or needed to be done, was take an already made midi track (as in, made by someone else)load it in the DAW, then just assign specific channels to specific parts of the songs. So if that's the case, as it sounds like it is to me, then i agree, cop out. Coming from a "seasoned" musician. Dude, sorry but that's bullshit. All that does is scream arrogance. Let me tell you something - in a LIVE situation i GUARANTEE that some of the "seasoned" musicians would have little to ZERO chance to hold a candle to what i can bring, or what i have done thus far! Go out and make money doing music, play the biggest, most popular and overall well known venues, sell them the fuck out, leave out of the place with hundreds of new fans - THEN you come back on here and tell us what's what for "seasoned" musicians! The way you go off in your posts when someone doesn't kiss your ass, i could see WHY no one wants to jump in and do these competitions!
/thread
-
Yeesh, that escalated quickly. Pop a chill pill, the whole lot of ye.
-
Yeesh, that escalated quickly. Pop a chill pill, the whole lot of ye.
I don't know why..but for some reason this made me laugh! ;D
-
Alrighty, the results are in, and...
1st place Dracula9
2nd place Chernabogue
Will we proceed with the Feb love song or not?
-
I'd say so, Shiroi. There seems to be enough support for it, and I've got a new kokyū
in a LIVE situation i GUARANTEE that some of the "seasoned" musicians would have little to ZERO chance to hold a candle to what i can bring, or what i have done thus far! Go out and make money doing music, play the biggest, most popular and overall well known venues, sell them the fuck out, leave out of the place with hundreds of new fans - THEN you come back on here and tell us what's what for "seasoned" musicians! The way you go off in your posts when someone doesn't kiss your ass, i could see WHY no one wants to jump in and do these competitions!
You post something like that, and I'm the arrogant one? You seem to be one of those people who insists physical instrumentation is infinitely superior to digital (though if I'm way wrong on this, correct me, I can only take your words at face value), when I've iterated three times now that there is no single "correct" method of doing music. Music is music is music, there's subjectively no right or wrong way to do it. Objectively the only right or wrong in it is technical skill. I don't have the coordination to play a physical instrument (and believe me, I've tried many times), but I know plenty of instrument-playing musicians who can't compose digitally at all. Each has its pros and cons.
And I don't expect or want people to kiss my ass. It's nice when it does happen, but I don't strut in demanding or expecting it.
Let me explain in more detail my perspective on this (not this argument itself, the subject it's based on). I never had any major help in learning this stuff, not on a technical level at least. Almost everything I know musically I taught myself. The only person I can really say has substantially helped me technically is Jorge, but even that's only been the last couple of years. I didn't have his wisdom and advice as a resource when I was first starting.
All the feedback I got as from viewers and fans. That's it. Folks saying such-and-such melody was too loud? Suggestions to boost the drums or add a louder line of hihats? Distastes and insults at work that was deemed poor quality? Those are the people I learned from, and shaped my technical knowledge on the average of all those suggestions.
My perspective on many things is that of someone who is almost entirely self-taught. I rarely had people help me out, and in my formative years I didn't have the confidence to hop on a board and ask for it. So I'm admittedly biased towards people learning things on their own time and in their own way, because that's how I learned. I never had how-to threads to point me in the right direction, I researched a lot of that myself and figured out what worked best for me through considerable trail-and-error.
-----
However, grievances and hostility aside, I've looked back on my previous posts with a clearer head (note to self, never argue while on your third day without sleep), and I do indeed see how easily I came off as arrogant or snide.
Sorry on that note. Should've known better.
I'm going to write up a how-to thread here shortly, with what links to programs and tutorials I know of. Since there's a wide variety of musical knowledge here, I'd like for those who have it to chip in with their own two cents. I know Jorge's got a huge-ass post in the works, but I do now agree with darkman that the more we have, the better.
So yeah. Apologies again for flying off the handle. There're a few barbs I'm still sore enough about to still want to argue them, but this angry-pride shit takes too much effort to keep up. So, with my own apologies in tow, I'm hoping to extend my hand and maybe make something good out of all this negativity.
Truce?
-
I'd say so, Shiroi. There seems to be enough support for it, and I've got a new kokyū
You post something like that, and I'm the arrogant one? You seem to be one of those people who insists physical instrumentation is infinitely superior to digital (though if I'm way wrong on this, correct me, I can only take your words at face value), when I've iterated three times now that there is no single "correct" method of doing music. Music is music is music, there's subjectively no right or wrong way to do it. Objectively the only right or wrong in it is technical skill. I don't have the coordination to play a physical instrument (and believe me, I've tried many times), but I know plenty of instrument-playing musicians who can't compose digitally at all. Each has its pros and cons.
And I don't expect or want people to kiss my ass. It's nice when it does happen, but I don't strut in demanding or expecting it.
Let me explain in more detail my perspective on this (not this argument itself, the subject it's based on). I never had any major help in learning this stuff, not on a technical level at least. Almost everything I know musically I taught myself. The only person I can really say has substantially helped me technically is Jorge, but even that's only been the last couple of years. I didn't have his wisdom and advice as a resource when I was first starting.
All the feedback I got as from viewers and fans. That's it. Folks saying such-and-such melody was too loud? Suggestions to boost the drums or add a louder line of hihats? Distastes and insults at work that was deemed poor quality? Those are the people I learned from, and shaped my technical knowledge on the average of all those suggestions.
My perspective on many things is that of someone who is almost entirely self-taught. I rarely had people help me out, and in my formative years I didn't have the confidence to hop on a board and ask for it. So I'm admittedly biased towards people learning things on their own time and in their own way, because that's how I learned. I never had how-to threads to point me in the right direction, I researched a lot of that myself and figured out what worked best for me through considerable trail-and-error.
-----
However, grievances and hostility aside, I've looked back on my previous posts with a clearer head (note to self, never argue while on your third day without sleep), and I do indeed see how easily I came off as arrogant or snide.
Sorry on that note. Should've known better.
I'm going to write up a how-to thread here shortly, with what links to programs and tutorials I know of. Since there's a wide variety of musical knowledge here, I'd like for those who have it to chip in with their own two cents. I know Jorge's got a huge-ass post in the works, but I do now agree with darkman that the more we have, the better.
So yeah. Apologies again for flying off the handle. There're a few barbs I'm still sore enough about to still want to argue them, but this angry-pride shit takes too much effort to keep up. So, with my own apologies in tow, I'm hoping to extend my hand and maybe make something good out of all this negativity.
Truce?
No prob D9, I wasn't trying to start a argument (really), we're all friends here!
-
Hope that Feb theme will bring moar love here. ;)
-
Hope that Feb theme will bring moar love here. ;)
Me too..lol
A special look at Daniel Bryan & Kane "hugging it out": Raw: Sept. 10, 2012 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67Cs8J0RMf0#ws)
Just to be clear basically Feb's music contest will be a romantic/love theme?
-
Hope that Feb theme will bring moar love here. ;)
X-D LOL!
Thanks for the spriting compliments! It was fun, and I have some resources to read to learn from, as well as experiment with "cheap-as-free" type programs for spriting, or otherwise stick with Paint. I'll end up doing the same with these music contests too (beginning with Drac9's guide topic, most likely). While I love music and have always liked noticing melodies/harmonies in game music, and how the music fits the scene, the music contests do seem a little more intimidating somehow than the sprite contests. :-S
-
It sounds like you already have some degree of a musical ear, which is good. Truth be told music IS a degree harder than spriting, as you're trying to establish a tone or theme that has no visual fix. But in that same vein I feel it's also more rewarding.
-
In a LIVE situation i GUARANTEE that some of the "seasoned" musicians would have little to ZERO chance to hold a candle to what i can bring, or what i have done thus far! Go out and make money doing music, play the biggest, most popular and overall well known venues, sell them the fuck out, leave out of the place with hundreds of new fans - THEN you come back on here and tell us what's what for "seasoned" musicians! The way you go off in your posts when someone doesn't kiss your ass, i could see WHY no one wants to jump in and do these competitions!
/thread
I was going to say something... but I'm glad you said " 'some' of the seasoned musicians".
I will be playing live music with some people in my state. I also brought my Melodica (portable Air Organ) to MAGFest and actually did live Jamming with both by-the-ear musicians as well as sheet-music musicians.
I will also be doing an arrangement of Castlevania for the MSU Gamer Symphony Orchestra. I'm excited as hell for this! :D
And I'm almost done with my huge-helpful-and-easy-to-understand Tutorial. :D
-
I was going to say something... but I'm glad you said " 'some' of the seasoned musicians".
I will be playing live music with some people in my state. I also brought my Melodica (portable Air Organ) to MAGFest and actually did live Jamming with both by-the-ear musicians as well as sheet-music musicians.
I will also be doing an arrangement of Castlevania for the MSU Gamer Symphony Orchestra. I'm excited as hell for this! :D
And I'm almost done with my huge-helpful-and-easy-to-understand Tutorial. :D
Absolutley dude, I wouldnt fly off the handle like that for no reason at all. After reading what Drac9 had responded with, it looks like he had a rough couple of days and it ended up coming through in some of his responses, and he did the right thing it coming out and apologising for it. Drac9, good man for that and truce is goos on my end as well if its still an option. 8)
Thats killer about MAGfest Jorge! I wish I could be close enough to come out and hook up with you guys, it'd really be different from doing my bands tunes, but fun as hell to jam to some cv tunes! Get some video for us if you can dude!
Ive also got a quick tutorial vid to post here shortly ;D
-
I will also be doing an arrangement of Castlevania for the MSU Gamer Symphony Orchestra. I'm excited as hell for this! :D
I demand an update thread for this when the time comes.
-
I'm not sure if you can search for MAGFest videos on Youtube or Facebook, but here are some of the stuff I played while at MAGFest, sometimes alone with my Melodica, and sometimes with musician friends:
-Minnie the Moocher (Jazz tune with my friend Alyssa at the Sax)
-The Smash 4 Melody (just jamming about, with a sax and trumpet, in Sax-friendly keys)
-The Dark Overworld from Zelda III - alone
-"Wind Scene" - 600AD - with a Flute and a Clarinet
-A lot of my Castlevania 1 tunes I can actually play on the keys.
-Lost Painting from Symphony of the Night - Alone on the keys of the Melodica.
FYI for those who don't know, this is a Melodica:
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.weselnydj.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F04%2FMelodyka-Hohner-S37-Permormer.jpg&hash=c62a01426ddadaa3314bd44ebd9bd2de)
This is the Hohner model I own, and it's an easy instrument to carry when you don't want to carry around electronic equipment but want something with a keyboard to play on.
Here's a SUPER-KICKASS VideoGame-related Melodica video by the Human Jukebox:
Human Jukebox Video Games Melodica (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDlJoM6Bm-E#ws)
-
-"Wind Scene" - 600AD - with a Flute and a Clarinet
Oh. Oh, Jorge. Yes.