Topic: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?

[suomynona]

I have kinda personal feelings against CoD. Not counting that Isaac looks like he's high on drugs, Igarashi made Kojima concentrate on CoD while DoS was being made. Result is stupid anime art and art that is kinda high on a drug. Clearly LoI and AoS art is clearly superior when Kojima drew their arts simultaneously. We had to wait till 2008 till a decent CV artwork.

[suomynona]

I downvoted your post because it made no f'ing sense.

Well, if you think my argument makes no fucking sense, try rebutting. Downvoting and acts such means that your arguments has ran out and you admitted defeat on this debate.

[Dracula9]

Or you could just quit starting shit with people and deal with what they say without turning it into a fullblown argument.

That's an option.

Oh, and your post doesn't make any fucking sense. It's a poor comparison to Aria because Death has no prior relationship with Soma like he does with Alucard. Alucard got his gear stripped in Symphony because Death has a history with him and has the leeway to fuck with him (not to mention the implication of "if I take his shit, he'll have to go get it, and if he hangs around long enough looking for it we might still be able to convince him to either join our side or leave," since Death makes the "join or leave" offer again in the Inverted Mine despite Alucard's seemingly final verdict at the start of the game).

Meanwhile Soma has no extensive history with Death (him have Dominance/being Mathias' reincarnation doesn't count), isn't waltzing in the Castle with high-level gear capable of wrecking pretty much everything but the big guys without much effort, and isn't (yet) being entreated by the enemy forces to join the bad-guy side. He's a kid in the wrong place at the right time who just so happens to have a vested involvement in the story's goings-on.

So, yeah. I'd say the comparison and hypothetical makes no fucking sense, either, since there's absolutely no sensible basis for it other than for you to make the comparison in the hope of somehow painting Death stealing Al's shit in a bad or nonsensical light. There is no foundation for the hypothetical to work in Aria as the reasons it works in Symphony are not present in Aria.

There's your rebuttal. Now can we be done with this before this thread turns into another shitfest?

[zangetsu468]

Well, if you think my argument makes no fucking sense, try rebutting.

No see that's where you're wrong, your post addressed NONE of my points and so in return rather than acknowledging any of your irrelevant points, which would require time on my behalf - time which I was unprepared to spend rebutting to something utterly shit and nonsensical, as well as uninformed - I decided that I would tell you how bad it was with a downvote, making the point to inform you.

I only debate when there's something to be debated, not when people display little to no understanding of the subject matter on which they're posting.

Downvoting and acts such means that your arguments has ran out and you admitted defeat on this debate.

Um fucking how exactly? Who made you the DICtator of downvotes? Using your logic I can say "You informing me that my downvote is due to lack of rebuttal is because you're the one who has none", but I'm not fucking 5 years old so I won't fabricate immature reasoning which is based on emotion rather than fact, to win a debate which only 1 party only perceives as such. There was no debate, I gave reasons that the Death sequence was there in SOTN, from both a narrative and a gameplay perspective and you replied that you didn't like it, other Castlevania games (that were released after) did it better (in your opinion) and that you felt the game was "teasing you". (I lol'd while writing that last sentence by the way.)

You see, your opinion in this particular example is based on things which are out of context. If you don't like it say you don't like it, explain why, and move on. For the record, I don't believe any game at the time of SOTN's release handled 2d exploration platforming as well as it did.

A downvote is a downvote. It is something which I rarely use, even in the most heated of debates where the mods are telling people to cool it. Additionally if a post is not relevant or I don't find the ideas within it attractive, I generally I ignore it and pay no attention. However, that post you wrote was utter dog shit, enough so to make me want to downvote it. I have used downvotes a total of about 3 times in all the years I've been on CVD.

In a general sense, there are sometimes interesting posts which are not researched/ uninformed, by the same token there are well researched posts which aren't that interesting. There's one thing in getting overly excited about an idea or theory or reasoning and running with it, but in future making sense and addressing what someone has said point by point (talking to someone) rather than serving random useless opinions which have no basis in context (talking at someone) would better support your idea/ theory.

[suomynona]

Yes. Yes. But, everytime someone gives dislikes or that kind is usually the losing side in "my" experience. And I didn't knew there were like buttons until you pointed out, which I have to give gratitude for, so I can throw bunch of upvotes on everything now. My concluding point is that stealing player's deus ex item to make the player from badass to wimp is a hard joke played by game and never should be happening again. Thinkng, no game that I've ever played gets [player's weapon stripped for no apparent reason (e.x. Game over).

Also, I condemned on the stealing item itself, not Death doing it, just that Death is only one to do it. Soma just came for comparison. Also that I have personal grudge towards this theft of items cuz when I played SotN for the first time and getting smashed with Slogra-Gaibon because of lack of weaponry and protective gears and when I replayed  the game and checked Alucard's stats made me pissed.

[Dracula9]

Thinkng, no game that I've ever played gets [player's weapon stripped for no apparent reason (e.x. Game over).

Haven't you played the God of War series? Half the games do it after the first area.

Also, consider balancing.

Alucard has his own shit and there wouldn't be any sensible reason for him to wage war on the Castle without some kind of gear of his own. He left home centuries prior with his mother's heirlooms and went to sleep, so there's no reason why he wouldn't or shouldn't begin his journey with some of his own gear.

What would the devs have done if Death didn't steal it? Think about the point in the game you get it all back--very lategame, with every item obtainable at the same time(s) being lategame and strong gear also. If Death doesn't steal it at the start, then Alucard begins the game with lategame gear, and thus there's no difficulty curve. Every item leading up to the Inverted Castle would have to be on-par with the items within it, and therefore the Inverted's items would have to be even stronger than they already are.

And we already know how easily one can break the difficulty of the game in half after a certain point/getting certain items. If Alucard doesn't lose his gear, the difficulty curve doesn't exist, and as a direct result the game's balancing would be breakable even sooner. We all know the Crissaegrim breaks the difficulty like a twig, now imagine getting it in the Alchemy Lab or Marble Gallery. Game loses all semblance of pacing and structure (or at least, what little it has up until the "become OP" segments are accessible).

And we can't just run with the idea of "well rebalance the difficulty curve to accomodate Alucard starting with and keeping his gear," since that would require all the lategame enemies being around from the start (which, regardless of equipment, isn't a fair notion since you still start the game at a low level regardless of your gear), and throwing even harder ones in at the end. It isn't as though Alucard begins the game so OP the thing's barely a challenge--he can still die in a few hits in the hands of a careless or reckless player. So it isn't as if he himself was always super powerful when the game started, he just had really good gear. Meaning, of course, that his start-game skill is less to do with his stats or level and almost exclusively to do with the quality of his gear. And since his start-game skill is determined almost solely by a series of items, those items become a very viable threat to the intended pacing of the game if allowed to be retained. Just look at how differently the game plays when one uses the Warg knockback trick to keep all the Alucard gear.

[suomynona]

Haven't you played the God of War series? Half the games do it after the first area.

Also, consider balancing.

Alucard has his own shit and there wouldn't be any sensible reason for him to wage war on the Castle without some kind of gear of his own. He left home centuries prior with his mother's heirlooms and went to sleep, so there's no reason why he wouldn't or shouldn't begin his journey with some of his own gear.

What would the devs have done if Death didn't steal it? Think about the point in the game you get it all back--very lategame, with every item obtainable at the same time(s) being lategame and strong gear also. If Death doesn't steal it at the start, then Alucard begins the game with lategame gear, and thus there's no difficulty curve. Every item leading up to the Inverted Castle would have to be on-par with the items within it, and therefore the Inverted's items would have to be even stronger than they already are.

And we already know how easily one can break the difficulty of the game in half after a certain point/getting certain items. If Alucard doesn't lose his gear, the difficulty curve doesn't exist, and as a direct result the game's balancing would be breakable even sooner. We all know the Crissaegrim breaks the difficulty like a twig, now imagine getting it in the Alchemy Lab or Marble Gallery. Game loses all semblance of pacing and structure (or at least, what little it has up until the "become OP" segments are accessible).

And we can't just run with the idea of "well rebalance the difficulty curve to accomodate Alucard starting with and keeping his gear," since that would require all the lategame enemies being around from the start (which, regardless of equipment, isn't a fair notion since you still start the game at a low level regardless of your gear), and throwing even harder ones in at the end. It isn't as though Alucard begins the game so OP the thing's barely a challenge--he can still die in a few hits in the hands of a careless or reckless player. So it isn't as if he himself was always super powerful when the game started, he just had really good gear. Meaning, of course, that his start-game skill is less to do with his stats or level and almost exclusively with the quality of his gear. And since his start-game skill is determined almost solely by a series of [/i]items[/i], those items become a very viable threat to the intended pacing of the game if allowed to be retained. Just look at how differently the game plays when one uses the Warg knockback trick to keep all the Alucard gear.

Haven't played it yet, but now that I am aware of it, I'll check it out.

About balancing, they could have given Alucard a basic knife to start with. Like Soma, Jonathan and Shanoa. Soma gets a knife, Jonathan has this seriously-nerfed VK and Shanoa has basic rapier glyph. Later in the game they get Clamih Solais, Crissaegrim better glyphs and open VK's power. Could have made that Alucard had to go find the sets, since he lived in the castle before CV3, and there were no mention about it in CV3. Even though the concept didn't exist in CV3.

Another fact is that Alucard's sets could grow its power according to Alucard's level. in very early stage, it barely has any difference with other weapons or worse then other. However, it gets stronger, and at the end, it gets so strong that it almost feels like it can do anything. So the sword's power grows with its master, like Master Sword in LoZ Skyward Sword.

[aensland]

Symphony literally gives you 2 weapons that can carry you up until getting to the Long Library shop right after you get stripped of your starter set

[X]

superc4@

Getting both the Short Sword and Red Rust in SotN is not very far into the game. It's not like the designers are throwing you to the wolves after you get stripped of your Alucard equipment. You literally progress about two chambers of the map before encountering a bloody zombie that carries the Short Sword. Have you ever played the Metroid series? Some of the games strip you down of your high-end equipment and you have to relocate your lost gear. It happens throughout the Prime series.

[TatteredSeraph]

On a random aside to this, because of the discussions about Death making his offer to Alucard to rejoin Dracula's side, and his gear prior to rebelling has suddenly made me think about what if there was a game that had had Alucard as a major antagonist (and not boss fight that finishes with him joining your team).  Where you see Alucard at his darkest point, when he was sided with his father. That could be pretty cool.

[suomynona]

On a random aside to this, because of the discussions about Death making his offer to Alucard to rejoin Dracula's side, and his gear prior to rebelling has suddenly made me think about what if there was a game that had had Alucard as a major antagonist (and not boss fight that finishes with him joining your team).  Where you see Alucard at his darkest point, when he was sided with his father. That could be pretty cool.

That actually sounds really cool. Like Alucard walked the same path of his father to avenge his mother, but that case, we would miss the one of greatest CV Protagonist.

[TatteredSeraph]

I've seen it done in a fanfic, where he ends up meeting iirc Trevor under diferent circumstances.  In my idea I'm thinking it's set during when he was for a brief time wanting to avenge his mother, before later on joining the side of the Belmonts, but an alternate timeline where he never joins Trevor's side could also be interesting. 

[zangetsu468]

Yes. Yes. But, everytime someone gives dislikes or that kind is usually the losing side in "my" experience.

So you're trying to win? Good for you, unlike you I was not trying to win as I don't consider your points as rebuttal and hence not a debate.

My concluding point is that stealing player's deus ex item to make the player from badass to wimp is a hard joke played by game and never should be happening again. Thinkng, no game that I've ever played gets [player's weapon stripped for no apparent reason (e.x. Game over).

Legacy of Kain, Metroid: Zero Mission, Metroid: Prime, as three examples of good games nonetheless.

Also, I condemned on the stealing item itself, not Death doing it, just that Death is only one to do it.

No one literally ever said that Death was a relevant factor in your personal likes/ dislikes.
If you don't like your gear getting stolen, do the Death glitch, keep your gear, simple.

Also that I have personal grudge towards this theft of items cuz when I played SotN for the first time and getting smashed with Slogra-Gaibon because of lack of weaponry and protective gears and when I replayed  the game and checked Alucard's stats made me pissed.

No one cares about personal grudges or peoples' anger. One person's tantrums don't make a critically acclaimed game's design choice unfavourable.

Back to the thread, in an antagonist sense, I'm surprised no one mentioned Malus from CV64/ LOD. I thought his character was handled very well, particularly for the era in which those games were released.

[suomynona]

Back to the thread, in an antagonist sense, I'm surprised no one mentioned Malus from CV64/ LOD. I thought his character was handled very well, particularly for the era in which those games were released.

Malus, I think was the beta for Soma Cruz (or Soma was based on Malus), like he's Dracula's reincarnation or that sort and it is revealed very late in the game, when you think the other guy is Dracula.

[chainsawmidget]

My concluding point is that stealing player's deus ex item to make the player from badass to wimp is a hard joke played by game and never should be happening again.

I loved that moment.  It was a well played slap in the face.  Alucard goes strolling in there like he's Mr. Hotshot Vampire Killer and gets slapped right down. 

Back to the thread, in an antagonist sense, I'm surprised no one mentioned Malus from CV64/ LOD. I thought his character was handled very well, particularly for the era in which those games were released.

Not only for the era where his games were released,but overall.  I think C64 had some of the best supporting characters the series has ever seen.