Topic: Should citizens be allowed to shoot burglars?

[Mooning Freddy]

An interesting question has been raised in the Knesset (Israel's Parliament) recently: May court punish a citizen for causing harm to a burglar, who broke into his house in order to steal his property?

     New law allows homeowners to shoot burglars

The question has been raised following the case of Southern farmer Shai Dromi. The farmer has grown sick and tired of Bedouin burglars breaking into his farm and stealing his farm animals. So, when he heard another burglar in his farm, he grabbed his rifle and shot him to death.

So in Tuesday, the Knesset approved the so-called "Dromi law", according to which a citizen that has made an urgent act to prevent a burglary is free of criminal responsibility for it, unless the act is wholly unreasonable in the particular case.

While the law's supporters claim that such a law would allow people to defend themselves against stealing and robberies, others say that a man cannot be free from punishment for killing unless it is a matter of life or death (like in taking out a terrorist).

An interesting subject for discussion IMO. What's you opinion?

[A n t r a x x]

In Reply To #1

This is definitely a sticky topic to deal with.

But I have deep feelings about defending oneself or ones family. I say if you mess with me, it's your own fault if you get hurt.

But at the same time I would try with all my might not to kill the intruder. If it's a repeat offender, I'd be less merciful each time.

Shooting or bashing the legs or arms dead should be enough, but again you don't always have the choice, ability or the time to decide before acting. Sometimes life just throws it at you and you have to make the first move to survive.

So to sorta answer, I'll say yes, you have every right to defend yourself, your property and especially your family, and I'm not sure if they can, but the autorities should at least try to determine whether excessive force was used to apprehend the convict.

Then again, even if the intruder was killed, that doesn't mean it was excessive force used.

Unfortunately I think this has to remain a gray area; specific to the given matter or circumstance at hand.

Thanks for bringing it up though.

[cecil-kain]

An interesting question has been raised in the Knesset (Israel's Parliament) recently: May court punish a citizen for causing harm to a burglar, who broke into his house in order to steal his property?

     New law allows homeowners to shoot burglars

The question has been raised following the case of Southern farmer Shai Dromi. The farmer has grown sick and tired of Bedouin burglars breaking into his farm and stealing his farm animals. So, when he heard another burglar in his farm, he grabbed his rifle and shot him to death.

So in Tuesday, the Knesset approved the so-called "Dromi law", according to which a citizen that has made an urgent act to prevent a burglary is free of criminal responsibility for it, unless the act is wholly unreasonable in the particular case.

While the law's supporters claim that such a law would allow people to defend themselves against stealing and robberies, others say that a man cannot be free from punishment for killing unless it is a matter of life or death (like in taking out a terrorist).

An interesting subject for discussion IMO. What's you opinion?

There are a few philosophical issues here.

1.  The defence of self.
2.  The defense of family.
3.  The defense of personal property.

I might kill to defend all three, but there is a difficult problem in proving the lawless intentions of the dead, when you're the one that ends up charged with murder.  And murder should not be blindly condoned in favor of where it takes place.  Unfortunately law abiding citizens cannot afford to wait on police while the lawless invade their homes --or worse.  So I say shoot first and ask questions later.  Step in my house and check your rights at the door.

[Rugal]

Yes. You enter my house without permission, you die. That's all.

[CVfan13]

In Reply To #4

Agreed. In fact, all house should should be REQUIRED to have a t least one gun in the house, just in case of an emergency.

[Mr Sven]

In Reply To #5

This is currently my bedroom wall:



I think i'm safe.

[Dark Nemesis]

In Reply To #5

This is currently my bedroom wall:



I think i'm safe.

I don't have a picture to post, but i too have my sword, next to my bed!! So if anyone comes into my room, i slice him to pieces!!

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

This is all well and good when there are good people defending their homes.

However, a wicked person can just shred anyone who comes into their premises, even if they had no intention of committing a crime.  Imagine slicing up a group of Jehova's Witnesses, or dicing up some Solicitors.

A wicked person can use this law to argue that the interlopers (to the property, not necessarily the house) had criminal intent, and at that point this law would end up on their side.

Of course, it is up to the police to determine, using Crime Scene Investigation and Forensics, whether 1. there was indeed a crime in progress, or 2. if there was need for excessive force.

"Hey dude, can I borrow a cup of sug-ARGH!"
"Get off my property!" *finishes stabbing*
"Hey you can't do that, you just killed an innocent person!"
"He was in my property.  As far as I'm concerned, he's a crook and deserves death!"

See?

[CVfan13]

In Reply To #6

Not if someone takes one of those weapons and stabs you while you are asleep. Or if they come in with a gun and shoot you before you can wake up. 

[The Last Belmont]

Yes your coming in my house to kill me and steal all my stuff, I should have a right to protect myself.

[Mr Sven]

In Reply To #8

Outside my home criminals may get away with a little bit more then they should, but once they have crossed pysical boundaries i believe I am entitled to think they are up to something nefarious and they waive any rights they had upon doing so.

I should then have the right to defend myself and any contents inside to an extent that wil either leave them disabled or remove them from the premesis as they know what they're doing is wrong to begin with.

and CVfan - with or without the weapons they could stab or shoot me, they are likley to have come prepared if that was their intent. I would rather have something to equal the odds though if that was the case.

[A n t r a x x]

Imagine slicing up a group of Jehova's Witnesses, or dicing up some Solicitors.

I mean, I've THOUGHT about it, okay? Does that make me a follower of Satan?

[CVfan13]

In Reply To #12

No, it means I highly praise you.b

[Gimph]

I think if someone came into my house, I grab my katana and cut them in half! Yes, I really have one. It's black and has a funky dragon carved on it...there are only a few blood stains.

Seriously though, you break into my house, DAMN YOU!
*SLASH!*
MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Oh shoot...

[Mr Sven]

In Reply To #14

You know that PoS will probably fall apart the moment you give it a serious swing?

It'll have a rat tailed tang which is usually only a fith of the width of the actual blade and is only attached to the blade itself with a tiny weld.