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The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: Mathias Hyperion on July 24, 2008, 05:30:14 PM

Title: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Mathias Hyperion on July 24, 2008, 05:30:14 PM
It's been retconned, but I quite like it.

I must be one of the few - if not the only one - who actually like the idea of the Belmonts being descended from Alucard and Dracula (or at least find it interesting).

I like that Sonia is just one, lonely girl trying to avenge her grandfather and stand up for all of Transylvania at such a young age. I like how her relationship with Alucard is forbidden and doomed (and now that I think about it, quite Buffy-Angel).

And through all this Sonia is a strong character, as displayed through her "you poor man" dialogue with Dracula at the end.

Legends is really a tragedy. It's the tragedy of Sonia. It's the tragedy of Alucard. It's the tragedy of the Belmont clan and its origins in a forbidden love.

And I know all this sounds so sentimental and clich
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on July 24, 2008, 05:40:24 PM
It's OK.
It would need heavy reworking for it to be more plausable.

The part I like is the one about a gifted child born with powers from a long-line of warriors (Classic Castlevania right there), thus that person is extra strong.

I also like how the weapon origins came from that game (no longer true, but in the game you had to collect magical artifacts that would become the standard sub-weapons later).

Lastly, while I despise the bad platforming and enemy placement at times (bad usage of RAM, Konami of Nagoya, BAD!) I do not mind the castle progression, what with it going linearly as opposed to the MegaMan-style stage layout of the previous GB title.

A lot of people cannot fathom Alucard and Sonia getting together... but no one seems to mind that Dracula and Lisa got together.  They also cannot imagine the idea of the Belmonts having a little 'streak of evil bloodline' in them, but I think that, considering all the possessions that seem to happen later down the bloodline, it is quite a possibility.

Soleiyu seems to easily be corrupted, and later on the same thing happens to Richter.  If they're so strong and powerful, something like a little mind manipulation should not affect them.  I think it gives them an Achilles Heel, personally.

I'm opening a big can of worms with this reply, but maybe it'll spark some good discussion for this hot summer for people to ponder while in front of their nice Air Conditioned rooms.

Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Mathias Hyperion on July 25, 2008, 01:09:39 AM
Yes. It turns the Belmonts into tragic heroes rather than just heroes (I'm using "tragic" and "tragedy" quite a lot here...).

That's a fair point about Dracula and Lisa. Trevor would only be one-quarter vampire, after all. (Although with Trevor being one-quarter vampire and Sypha being a witch, their child(ren) would probably be pretty powerful).

And of course the vampire heritage accounts for the Belmonts' special powers. It doesn't account for Leon's insane double-jump, but we just have to suspend our disbelief. Maybe the laws of physics are different in Castlevania and the surrounding forest.

Of course, making Alucard the ancestor of the Belmont clan post-1450 leaves a bit of a problem, as Maria Renard is supposed to be a Belmont descendant/relative. And people pair her with Alucard and make them the progenitors of the Lecarde line. However, unless the Renard line split from the Belmont line pre-1450, Alucard would be Maria's great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather (give or take a few greats). Which raises questions.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Long John Silver on July 25, 2008, 01:34:21 AM
but trevor having vampire blood within him would've banned him from using the vampire killer, a holy relic that banishes all evil and darkness, wouldn't it?
i mean, if a little mind corruption bans richter and soleiyu for long time from the use of it, tainting one's body and soul with the very thing the whip was created to destroy would probably never make it possible to purify the bloodline.

not to mention, alucard shouldn't even be born at the time of legends unless when lisa died in 1470 she was like 60. but she surely didn't look older than 30 then, which would make her 10 during legends.

and legends was probably the worst "orgins" for the whip anyone could come up with. it didn't explain anything, other than the whip was with the family long before the game, just like every other game.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on July 25, 2008, 05:24:04 AM
In Reply To #4

It did not at all explain the origins of the whip.  Sonia's father knew how to use it, that's all.  It kept it open.  I really meant the sub-weapons.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Alexc2808 on July 25, 2008, 06:07:16 AM
Having the Belmont's be related to Dracula is absurd generic anime bs.  The end.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: fallenangel86 on July 25, 2008, 07:16:53 AM
and an alchemical whip isn't?
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: ChibiMaddiChan on July 25, 2008, 08:00:39 AM
In Reply To #6

I'll agree with this greatly. 

In short, I didn't like the story.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on July 25, 2008, 08:16:48 AM
Having the Belmont's be related to Dracula is absurd generic anime bs.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Alexc2808 on July 25, 2008, 10:19:06 AM
In Reply To #7
Nope.
And you're right Jorge, it is just generic bs that is often used in anime.  DO NOT WANT.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: darkwzrd4 on July 25, 2008, 10:24:52 AM
First of all, the vampire killer can not a holy weapon, even though it is usually classified as such.  After all, it gained it power from the soul of a human woman who had been bitten by a vampire, but had not yet transformed into one.  It is simply the "bane of the children of the night" (quoted from LoI). 
As far as legends goes, it is a decent story.  As stated by others, the problem is the time when Lisa was supposedly killed.  Other than that, everything can work.  After all, aren't the Belmonts suppose to be the strongest vampire hunters in existence?  Can anyone see a parallel with Vampire Hunter D?
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Alexc2808 on July 25, 2008, 10:33:59 AM
First off, Legends has virtually no story.  It is not "ok".  It is a bland pointless story full of cardboard cut out generic characters.  How can people bash PoR for this stuff and say Legends is "ok" when it is much guiltier of these things.

Also, the Vampire Killer IS a holy whip.  i twas made with Alchemy, which in the Castlevania universe "experiments with god's creation of the world".  So they are using secrets discovered through the way things have been made by god to manipulate magics and things of that nature.  Alchemy is like a religion and magic in Castlevania.  So it is a holy whip.  It is made clear in LoI that the church is crazy and that is why they consider Alchemy heresy.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on July 25, 2008, 11:10:49 AM
In Reply To #7
Nope.
And you're right Jorge, it is just generic bs that is often used in anime.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Marty Belmont on July 25, 2008, 11:18:02 AM
In Reply To #1

I hate it.

The Belmonts are strong and powerful because they are a Holy Bloodline, blessed with divine powers (Summoning Gigantic crucifixes and weapons giving off distictive cross-shaped flashes of light upon enemy contact are in-game evidence of this)

in additon, before legends was released, Alucard dtated in SotN that he believed his blood to be cursed, and thus would NEVER allow it to mix with the belmonts.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: darkwzrd4 on July 25, 2008, 11:21:04 AM
In Reply To #1

I hate it.

The Belmonts are strong and powerful because they are a Holy Bloodline, blessed with divine powers (Summoning Gigantic crucifixes and weapons giving off distictive cross-shaped flashes of light upon enemy contact are in-game evidence of this)

in additon, before legends was released, Alucard dtated in SotN that he believed his blood to be cursed, and thus would NEVER allow it to mix with the belmonts.
You have a point.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on July 25, 2008, 04:13:00 PM
In Reply To #15

True, he did say that...
...however, we don't know how his feelings could have been 400-500 years prior.

He seems a lot more brash in CV3 than he does in Symphony, even though he has a few lines of text in that.

It's funny how you guys retroactively give characters personalities they did not possess originally.  The human mind is a strange thing.  As I recall, I did not see Alucard feeling all that bad about himself until the ending of CVIII, where he acknowledges that he's killed his own father.  Prior to that he was all "I am glad to hear it.  Let's get him.  I am Alucard", etc.  It seems he was not as worried about his bloodline at that point.

I mean, the Alucard of CVIII was badass (even his instruction manual artwork)... I think he could've easily had a number of women at his disposal before he got into the whole "I'm a good guy" thing.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Gunlord on July 25, 2008, 04:19:51 PM
I don't really like it. I found the plot to be not only unoriginal (which isn't such a bad thing in and of itself) but also uninspired. n_n
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Danial on July 26, 2008, 11:15:45 AM
Yes, Legends story was cliche, but so are most CV games.  How many times does Dracula kidnap someone?  Hell, one of the other threads basically came to the conclusion as to the plot of OoS.  We haven't even seen that much of the game and we have a pretty good idea of what's going to happen.  Most CV game plots are unoriginal, or at least uninspired.  Legends is really no different.

Here's the thing with "holy bloodlines" and "holy weapons".  There are very few established rules in the CV universe.  So most understandings of how things work is very open to interpretation. 

I don't think the Belmonts are a holy bloodline.  They are corrupted too easily.  Really, how do you corrupt the power of God?  If the Belmonts truly had the blessing or power of God to vanquish evil, then why are they so susceptible to it?  I think they are more pious than anything.  The only reason Leon had children was so he could continue his vendetta against Mathias.  Every generation was raised with the idea, and bias, that they are doing God's work.  If anything, the title of holy bloodline was probably self imposed.

As for holy weapons: I don't think the Vampire Killer is either.  It's a weapon that was created with the tainted soul of a murdered innocent.  Doesn't sound very God inspired to me.  It was made through alchemy also.  As stated earlier alchemy is "experiments with god's creation of the world".  God, in theory, is perfect.  A perfect being creates perfect things, so the world must also be perfect.  But if you were to change or experiment on perfection in any way the only result is imperfection.  Look at Mathias.  His whole plan is to defy God by living forever, and he was an alchemist.  Also, look at all the other wonderful things alchemy is used for.  The Vampire Killer, which requires the ultimate sacrifice to even exist.  The ebony and crimson stones which only allow evil to prosper.  Devilforgemasters, or monster maker 2.0, I think there's a pretty valid claim by the Church that alchemy is blasphemous practice.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: crisis on July 26, 2008, 11:36:45 AM
Quote from: Danial
I don't think the Belmonts are a holy bloodline.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: CarrieCavalry on July 26, 2008, 08:43:02 PM

Vampires are unholy and weak against holy attacks and icons.

Therefore something that kills them, generally, is holy...
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Blue Cheese on July 27, 2008, 04:02:31 AM
Using revelations that came about AFTER Legends is pointless in refuting it. There are things like Sonia having powers 'just cuz'.
Also I don't understand why people jump to the Alucard is the father conclusion. Sonia is a 'young girl' at the time of the story, she beats Alucard to prove her strength and he says "OW! Ok you're strong enough to fight Dracula so I'm gonna go back to sleep. Laters. We'll never meet again."
Sonia, unlike Maria, does not chace after him. She says "LOL K BAI" and keeps on truck'n. There is no reason to think they ever met again.

Then when you beat the game it says that when Sonia grows up she becomes a mom. ZOMG ALUCARD'S THE DAD!!1
No. That's just a case of horrible shipping.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Long John Silver on July 27, 2008, 04:11:53 AM
that is a good counterargument against the sonia x alucard, but still, if lisa wasn't even an adult during legends, alucard shouldn't be even born, much less adult, especially since he's a teenager in cv3.

so yeah
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Kale on July 27, 2008, 05:17:11 AM
I hate the whole I'll test your skills thing with Alucard... why not just help her in the battle >.>
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: darkwzrd4 on July 27, 2008, 03:57:19 PM
I hate the whole I'll test your skills thing with Alucard... why not just help her in the battle >.>
While I'm probably wrong, he does it most likely because he knows that he is not strong enough alone to defeat his father and tests people to see if they can hold their own against him if not defeat him so that he knows whether or not they have a chance to defeat Dracula.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Azmodan on July 27, 2008, 04:09:47 PM
I just...don't like it.

I know having a mean streak to the Belmonts sounds good for some, but I think it kind of cheapens what they stand for. That, and I don't like Sonia. But that's just me. ;_;
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: warfreak on July 27, 2008, 09:14:58 PM
In Reply To #21

I agree. HORRIBLE shipping. I also don't like the "test your skills" thing, because wouldn't he be hurting/weakening any potential Dracula-defeaters? [Vocabulary limited atm. ;D ]

I don't like the story. At all.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Evil_Tim on July 27, 2008, 10:51:59 PM
The trouble with Legends is it the plotline comes across as a bad CV fanfic with some 14-year-old girl's self-insert character in the lead role, complete with implausible doomed romance.

 That and Sonia's grandfather teaching her to use a whip and dressing her as a hooker is all kinds of wrong.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on July 28, 2008, 05:20:53 AM
I hate the whole I'll test your skills thing with Alucard... why not just help her in the battle >.>

Doesn't he do that in CV3?  "I'm surprised you beat me.  I've been waiting for you!"
And Maria does it to him in SotN (Saturn NitM, DXC).
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: warfreak on July 28, 2008, 05:28:33 AM
In Reply To #28

That doesn't make it any less likeable. I never understood why they do that. So impractical..

That's definitely not the only flaw (or unlikeable thing) in Legends' plot, though. ..Horrible shipping.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on July 28, 2008, 06:30:43 AM
In Reply To #29

Shipping and Handling? O_o
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: warfreak on July 28, 2008, 07:10:37 AM
In Reply To #29

Shipping and Handling? O_o
LOL! ;D Relationshipping. Sonia x Alucard X_X
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Kale on July 28, 2008, 07:39:35 AM
Doesn't he do that in CV3?
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: castlevania legacy on July 30, 2008, 03:14:44 AM
I personally like the game I thought it was fun, the storie behind the wepons wasnt half bad,i liked the idea of trevor being alucards son, the only flaw was trevor wouldnt be able to use the vampire killer but you could easily get past that just say something like Trevor was so pure of heart that it cancled out the darkness or something like that.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Alexc2808 on July 30, 2008, 08:02:42 AM
In Reply To #33
Except for the fact that it is completely lame and generic.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Marty Belmont on July 30, 2008, 07:51:20 PM
In Reply To #34

the idea of someone from a cursed bloodline being "Pure of heart" or at least good-willed, worked a lot better With Soma Cruz, as even though he is the re-incarnation of Dracula, he is the one who ultimately puts an absolute final end to his legacy of darkness.

(very similar to Darth Vader/Anakin skywalker destroying the emporer in the Star Wars Trilogy)


That's where this sort of storyline works.

Legend's story doesn't work, and it never has.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: The Last Belmont on August 08, 2008, 05:16:52 AM

Also, the Vampire Killer IS a holy whip.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Evil_Tim on August 08, 2008, 07:27:29 AM
Manipulating and perverting what god created is not holy if this was the case the darkside in the starwars is holy which we know it isn't.


 That would mean we wouldn't be allowed to create anything, you idiot. Alchemy is a term used to refer to early scientific study. There's nothing unholy about that. Also, the darkside from Star Wars isn't actually real, or subject to the rules of the Castlevania universe; it's therefore absolutely irrelevant.


Quote
um, no they aren't. Alchemy screws with the natural "godly" order of things. If god made one thing gold the church looks at it as not our place to change it into something else.


 They've never looked at things that way, any more than they've considered it heresy to turn a bunch of rocks into a church. The real-life concerns the church had with alchemy where that it involved sorcery or witchcraft, not that it involved changing God's creation: mankind does that every day, as does everything else.


Quote
The Church was trying to fight the crusades


 Actually, it wasn't. Historically, the crusades hadn't started when LoI is set.


Quote
You think the government is gonna listen to me if I'm captain of a battalion of troops and give me permission to go on a crusade to invade a caslte and kill a vampire, no they're gonna look at me like I'm nuts unless I give them proof to take hundreds of men into what could be a pointless battle.


 Given the description LoI gives, it seems the church is fully aware that there are monsters in the castle, but doesn't want to fight them. Which is ludicrous: the church isn't going to screw around killing heathens in the Holy Land if it's got perfectly servicable demons right in it's own backyard.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Long John Silver on August 08, 2008, 08:17:57 AM
and yet the church sees alchemy as heresy. rinaldo asked leon, whether he also follows that before giving him the enchanted glove and all.

and messing with natural stuff is considered to be heresy and against god. i mean, otherwise why would genetic manipulation in the real world cause so much controversy and rage from the religious figures?
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Evil_Tim on August 08, 2008, 08:28:45 AM
and yet the church sees alchemy as heresy. rinaldo asked leon, whether he also follows that before giving him the enchanted glove and all.


He says there are 'some' who consider it heresy, but not that it's the entire church. And I guess they can't be that common, since he gave Leon the whip before checking.


Quote
and messing with natural stuff is considered to be heresy and against god. i mean, otherwise why would genetic manipulation in the real world cause so much controversy and rage from the religious figures?


 It rather depends. Selective breeding programs for livestock, which achieve exactly the same result as genetic engineering, have never been an issue with the church, in the specific case of genetics it's more fear of the unknown than anything else. Regardless, making weapons for fighting demons would probably count as a good thing, up there with whoever makes all those crosses the Belmonts huck around during the series.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Long John Silver on August 08, 2008, 08:48:07 AM
Quote
He says there are 'some' who consider it heresy, but not that it's the entire church. And I guess they can't be that common, since he gave Leon the whip before checking.
by some he could've meant christians/church. there are many religions out there.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: The Last Belmont on August 08, 2008, 12:46:11 PM

 That would mean we wouldn't be allowed to create anything, you idiot. Alchemy is a term used to refer to early scientific study. There's nothing unholy about that.

Don't call me and idiot dumbass, I've studied scripts about alchemy do you even know what it is? It's trying to turn one element into another, perverting what god created. You think God meant for us to turn say trees into gold? Nothing Holy about it, do your fuckin' homework.

Chemistry and actual scientific study is another matter. Using what God so called "gave" us and just arrangeing it differently is perfectly normal. And that's all chemistry is.

I swear I really can't stand ignorance. Magic (alchemy)=/Science
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: thernz on August 08, 2008, 12:50:42 PM
I'm pretty sure turning trees into gold is a matter of arranging things differently too.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: The Last Belmont on August 08, 2008, 12:54:54 PM
I'm pretty sure turning trees into gold is a matter of arranging things differently too.

It's scientifically possible with the right equipment that would mimic a stars reaction like we do with nuclear fusion, but you can't "magically" do it like alchemists tried to do. It requires intense heat and pressure. Changing the base elements like alchemy tries to do is incredibly hard they are the building blocks of everything. If we could do that easily we'd all be rich.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: thernz on August 08, 2008, 01:09:27 PM
In Reply To #43

Alchemists were just ignorant being the forerunners and all.
They're also responsible for the first Harry Potter so they're awesome.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Long John Silver on August 08, 2008, 01:09:56 PM
Quote
If we could do that easily we'd all be rich.
if we all could do that easily gold would be as worthless as normal rocks.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Marty Belmont on August 09, 2008, 07:48:38 AM
In Reply To #36

what makes the Vampire Killer Holy is that it was made through sacrifice, just Like Jesus sarificing himself for the sins of humanity.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Evil_Tim on August 09, 2008, 11:21:28 PM
Don't call me and idiot dumbass, I've studied scripts about alchemy do you even know what it is? It's trying to turn one element into another, perverting what god created.


 No, it's not. Elemental transfiguration is one of the goals of alchemy, but there was also eternal life, and a more general understanding of creation as a whole. Even many modern scientists who are religious see the understanding of the world as a worthy goal of their faith, since they see it as understanding what it was that God created.

 You clearly haven't studied much if you believe there was nothing more to it than turning lead into gold.


Quote
I swear I really can't stand ignorance. Magic (alchemy)=/Science


 Alchemy was early science. It also incorported a whole lot besides [such as philosophy], but the search for the secret of elemental transfiguration was only part of the larger whole, not the entire thing.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: darkwzrd4 on August 10, 2008, 09:08:18 AM
Yes, alchemy is a scientific approach to understanding "God's" creation.  It is considered heresy by some because it isn't religious and incorporates some magic, which at that time in history is considered evil by the church even if it is holy magic.  It is not evil, nor do I think that it is holy.  It is simply a means of understanding the world and how things work.  As for the vampire killer, it's referred to as forbidden because of its requirements.  In my view, taking the life of another can't be seen as holy, even if the "victim" is willingly allowing them self to be killed.  It's not easy taking a life and all life is sacred even the life of a monster like a vampire.  The only reason vampires are killed is to protect innocent humans and killing someone or thing to protect innocent people is the only way to justify killing a living being.  Vampires are beings of darkness who seem to hate Christianity and attack innocent humans.  Thus, any weapon that can negate any special defense a vampire and is very effective against evil beings of darkness may in time be considered "holy" by people.  If the vampire killer was indeed a holy whip, it would have been referred to such in its description in LoI.  It's not though.  Instead it is described as "a whip of forbidden secrets that is the bane of the children of the night."  If you ask me, that description makes the whip sound anything except holy.  The only reason the whip is considered holy is that it is effective against vampires and other beings of darkness and because virtually all the sub-weapons used by the Belmonts have at least some holy power.  For example, in SotN, every time you attack an enemy with a sub-weapon, the enemy turns a little bright green indicating that the attack was at least partially holy.  And it's just with the Belmonts.  Even when Alucard uses a sub-weapon, it's partially holy.

In other words, the only reason the Belmonts are considered to have "holy power" is because they can effectively fight vampires and other evil beings of darkness are Christian and are completely human.  At least, that is how I see everything.  I could be wrong though.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Evil_Tim on August 10, 2008, 09:23:34 AM
Vampires are undead. This would generally mean they aren't alive, and they're generally described as not having souls either. Therefore, they're no more alive than rocks and their 'life' isn't sacred in the slightest.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Alexc2808 on August 10, 2008, 02:00:45 PM
Don't call me and idiot dumbass, I've studied scripts about alchemy do you even know what it is? It's trying to turn one element into another, perverting what god created. You think God meant for us to turn say trees into gold? Nothing Holy about it, do your fuckin' homework.

Chemistry and actual scientific study is another matter. Using what God so called "gave" us and just arrangeing it differently is perfectly normal. And that's all chemistry is.

I swear I really can't stand ignorance. Magic (alchemy)=/Science
Maybe if you understood how science works you'd not make statements like this.  So smelting metal is alchemy and against god?  So is cooking right?  Eevery chemical reaction is against god!

And you didn't get my point at all.  Alchemy is heresy ACCORDING TO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.  That in no way validates anything, it is there point of view.  Guess what?  In cv at least, they were wrong.  ::)

The church is not infallible, I am an atheist, so in my opinion, the church is wrong about almost everything.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Kamirine on August 10, 2008, 09:34:29 PM
Personally, I didn't care for Legends, story wise or otherwise.  The game itself wasn't that great and as far as the story, it had too many contradicts for me to like it or even take it seriously.  I don't care how much people may hate Lament, I actually give it credit for having (IMO of course) a better origin story. 
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Nagumo on August 11, 2008, 03:28:34 AM
Vampires are undead. This would generally mean they aren't alive, and they're generally described as not having souls either. Therefore, they're no more alive than rocks and their 'life' isn't sacred in the slightest.
What about other creatures that the belmonts fight? like fishman, hunchbacks etc. Don't they have souls either?   
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Evil_Tim on August 11, 2008, 06:38:44 AM
What about other creatures that the belmonts fight? like fishman, hunchbacks etc. Don't they have souls either?   

 According to Aria and Dawn, most of them don't have souls at all, and those souls are evil regardless, hence their forming Menace when freed.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Venkman on August 11, 2008, 10:40:41 AM
In Reply To #35
What hassn't been since IGA took over?
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Nagumo on August 11, 2008, 11:02:42 AM
If the whip was holy wouldn't it be odd that

1) the whip was created with a "undesired" and "cursed"
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Kale on August 11, 2008, 11:05:37 AM
In Reply To #55

It kills non belmonts? I thought it just didn't work for them.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Nagumo on August 11, 2008, 11:07:02 AM
In Reply To #56
It kills them in the long run. It drains their life force
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Kale on August 11, 2008, 11:21:01 AM
In Reply To #57

Interesting, ... does it work for them though? Like actually helps them to combat "evil"..... Fun news I can add to my completely disregarded different dimension fan writing >.>
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Nagumo on August 11, 2008, 11:35:29 AM
In Reply To #58
Yes but they don't have acces to the whips full power(I think  :P)             
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Kamirine on August 11, 2008, 11:43:33 AM
In Reply To #58
Yes but they don't have acces to the whips full power(I think  :P)             


If your going by PoR, apparently, you still have to be part of the Belmont family line otherwise the whip doesn't work for you at all.  However, even if you are part of the bloodline, if you're not a direct decedent, then the whip won't work for you properly until you unlock it's full potential. (Thus, the Lecarde? family being involved.)  Apparently, if you use the whip's power to much, it will kill you.  Or at the very least, kill you faster. (I'll admit, I was never clear on this because he said that John used the power of the whip too much and it killed him but I'm not sure if it ever said the whip will kill you reguardless.)
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Nagumo on August 11, 2008, 12:26:50 PM
 
If your going by PoR, apparently, you still have to be part of the Belmont family line otherwise the whip doesn't work for you at all. However, even if you are part of the bloodline, if you're not a direct decedent, then the whip won't work for you properly until you unlock it's full potential.
That actually doesn't make really sense. It doesn't matter if a random guy or someone with ties to the Belmont clan wields the whip they will all end up dead anyway. It's never really explained why only pure Belmonts could wield it. Before PoR I always assumed the whip "judges" you to see if your worthy enough to use it. By the way I don't think you have to be a direct decedent but again I could be wrong. 
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Long John Silver on August 11, 2008, 12:39:00 PM
it might also be a bloodline+spiritual connection thing.

the whip works for those who were using it ever since leon, and possibly were "in tune" with the spirit inside it due to the exposure to it since their earliest days.

but for those who dodged that duty and ran away, like how the morrises went to usa the whip might have denied it due to them being traitors to the bloodline (dodging their sworn duty to combat the darkness and pursue dracula until he's destroyed that was started by leon), and so they have to prove their worth to be granted that power.

and even once they do, they have to pay the ultimate price.

maybe the power that comes from the whip, while easily tolerated by a real belmont who was trained with it since childhood like many generations before him, is simply too great for those who didn't have any contact with it for so long (the morrises supposedly separated from the main clan after trevor, before christopher, so around 400 years before), and slowly destroys them.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: crisis on August 11, 2008, 01:01:59 PM
Where does it say that the Morris' separated from the Belmonts?
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Alexc2808 on August 11, 2008, 07:29:23 PM
Wait one sec, the VK DOES NOT KILL ANYONE WHO USES IT.  Whoever said that just made it up.  It does nothing for non-Belmonts (as stated in the DoS library I believe).  it only takes the life force of non-pure Belmont's who un-lock its power, like the Morris's.  Nowhere does it ever say it kills anyone else.

And I doubt the Morris's ran away, they didn't go to the U.S. until one or two generations before Quincy.  It is pretty apparent that the VK is handed down father to son, how else would it be wielded by some with the name Belmont from leon down?  If given to a daughter the name would change (another reason legends is full of fail).  The Morris's split off between Trevor and Christopher (don't remember where I heard that, a timeline or an interview with IGA, not sure) and while still having the ability to use the whip, didn't for hundreds of years.  So when they needed to use it, they had to do a ritual, because that part of the family had been seperated from its power for so long.  The life force drain is also due to this, I bet if it stayed in the Morris family's hands long enough it would work normally for them.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on August 12, 2008, 03:20:31 AM
I think it's stupid that it's "All in the Name".
I never liked the decision made Konami (possibly IGA) to have John perish because he used it...
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Long John Silver on August 12, 2008, 04:35:36 AM
Quote
Konami (possibly IGA)
iga. konami itself is just a company, it doesn't care about one of their niche franchises' storyline details.

all they care about is milking it for money, which was especially visible starting from dos and pork when they "tried to broaden the fanbase with kids", and now when we get 3 titles one after another, the later two being a complete departure from the series's roots. :o
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: darkwzrd4 on August 12, 2008, 06:09:20 AM
iga. konami itself is just a company, it doesn't care about one of their niche franchises' storyline details.

all they care about is milking it for money, which was especially visible starting from dos and pork when they "tried to broaden the fanbase with kids", and now when we get 3 titles one after another, the later two being a complete departure from the series's roots. :o
Would the three games you mention be: DoS, CoD, and PoR?  Well, I'll admit DoS and PoR were a stretch, but CoD was good.  Ok, it speaks of a war at the time of Cv 3 that wasn't mentioned in that game.  So what?  The individual story was great.  I admit that the existence of a war with Dracula during CV3 that did not occur in that game, but that game's story seems to be lacking.  Then again, that's just my opinion.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Long John Silver on August 12, 2008, 06:33:20 AM
nope, i meant dos and pork. i forgot cod was released around that time too. and right now judgement and the arcade game, both just screaming "milking the series for all it's worth"
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Alexc2808 on August 12, 2008, 01:49:00 PM
I seriously doubt it is about the name.  I think it is one of two things.

1. It is handed down father to son because that is how the magic works.  This is not at all uncommon, and before you say this is stupid or sexist, you same people would be fine with something passed down mother to daughter.  It's common in the lore of every culture to have things ike this.

2. It is handed down father to son because that is how Leon started it (the time period would make this make perfect sense) and it just became the norm.  I mean no modern Belmont's aside Julius use it.  And the Morris's can't use it properly because there part of the bloodline has been separated from it for like 400 years.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Alexc2808 on August 12, 2008, 01:50:10 PM
Would the three games you mention be: DoS, CoD, and PoR?  Well, I'll admit DoS and PoR were a stretch, but CoD was good.  Ok, it speaks of a war at the time of Cv 3 that wasn't mentioned in that game.  So what?  The individual story was great.  I admit that the existence of a war with Dracula during CV3 that did not occur in that game, but that game's story seems to be lacking.  Then again, that's just my opinion.
The war was mentioned in Cv3.  Read the translated Japanese manual.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: darkwzrd4 on August 13, 2008, 07:47:50 AM
The war was mentioned in Cv3.  Read the translated Japanese manual.
I didn't realize that.  In that case, CoD does it pretty good in the official timeline.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: gravekeeper on August 13, 2008, 01:56:11 PM
I think Konami should make a series of games that clears up the true, official storyline of Castlevania. Either that, or a series of books. I believe a lot of Castlevania fans would appreciate that.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Kale on August 13, 2008, 02:07:04 PM
In Reply To #72

Or just abandon the current story and create it anew.
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Alexc2808 on August 13, 2008, 03:26:39 PM
In Reply To #72
You can just ask me.  I know it all.  ;D
Title: Re: What is the general opinion of Legends' story?
Post by: Reinhart77 on August 13, 2008, 04:06:37 PM
don't worry.  The Castlevania Judgment backstories will explain it all! ...