Castlevania Dungeon Forums

The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: LoneChild on September 11, 2008, 11:16:27 AM

Title: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: LoneChild on September 11, 2008, 11:16:27 AM
It was about time...
http://www.vc-reviews.com/news/2008/09/oflc_update_castlevania_iii_draculars_curse_nes
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: erimocard on September 11, 2008, 11:43:43 AM
Yes. YES. YEEEESU!!! Finally. T_T
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: mistressalucard on September 11, 2008, 12:09:54 PM
That is very cool news!  Between this and Judgment it's time for me to get a Wii!

If I can find one lol
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: Profbeanburrito on September 11, 2008, 12:54:32 PM
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: crisis on September 11, 2008, 01:28:22 PM
In Reply To #4
You just named all three  :P
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: erimocard on September 11, 2008, 02:44:42 PM
In Reply To #5

Resident Evil 4: Wii edition is not to be missed. It works great with the wii controlls.
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: Abnormal Freak on September 11, 2008, 04:35:59 PM
In Reply To #4
You just named all three
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: darkwzrd4 on September 11, 2008, 07:34:31 PM
Being that CVIII is such a great game, I think that a remastered version with the same graphics as SotN should be released for either the DS or PSP.

Then again, that is just my opinion.  I think that it would be a great opportunity for people without an NES to get the game and would look better then the original game for NES.
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: paletteswapmonster on September 11, 2008, 08:00:11 PM
Yaesh! Yaesh! Dish iz delishuss!
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: erimocard on September 11, 2008, 08:09:55 PM
Ja, zis wood be so cool. Heir ist cake.
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: Kamirine on September 11, 2008, 08:53:27 PM
It's about damn time.  This is the second thing to make my day this week.
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: VampireHunterM on September 11, 2008, 08:57:34 PM
Thats a great thing. I wish they released Simon's Quest and Dracs Curse on the handheld. I got my hopes up when the original Castlevania was released in the NES Classic series, oh well.
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: erimocard on September 11, 2008, 09:42:50 PM
In Reply To #12

Maybe they'll bring a CV classix pack for DS which includes all three NES titles. That'd be awesome.
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: Reinhart77 on September 11, 2008, 10:01:50 PM
great timing, just before the release of Ecclesia.  oh my goodness, i can finally play Castlevania III again since my NES died about five years ago.  i knew it would be worth it to wait a while and not get a "new" piece of junk NES (ok, i was a little worried). 

it's been too long since Simon's Quest was released, but now there's a little more hope that we will actually get Dracula X, Bloodlines, Vampire Killer, etc if we just wait long enough.

i should try to beat this game without using the Help Me code for once (though that might be bad for my health).
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: Aridale on September 12, 2008, 12:55:31 AM
In Reply To #7

wait... wait... back up... theyve got homebrew workin on wii now?
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: Verboten on September 12, 2008, 12:58:47 AM
I'm waiting for the N64 Castlevanias to go up since I've never played them.

Yeah, I'll probably be waiting a long time.
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on September 12, 2008, 01:43:52 AM
In Reply To #7

wait... wait... back up... theyve got homebrew workin on wii now?

Um... yes, yes they do.  And when they did, so did I.  So I do.  Have had the pleasure of having it for over a week.  It rocks.  Homebrew/Emulation.  >_>
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: Abnormal Freak on September 12, 2008, 03:21:06 AM
I just wish the NES emulator didn't suck. It'd be good if not for the fact that the audio is all glitchy.

Srsly, gaiz...Soul Blazer rocks my dick. I can't wait to play through Illusion of Gaia next.
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on September 12, 2008, 10:49:26 AM
In Reply To #18

The audio is a little... garbled I'd say, but it's not super-duper-major of an issue (to most people... to me and Freak it is, though... but still, playing Bayou Billy again after all these years, lolz).

Freak, don't forget to play Terranigma after you're done with Illusion of Gaia. :)
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: darkwzrd4 on September 12, 2008, 12:12:08 PM
I'm waiting for the N64 Castlevanias to go up since I've never played them.

Yeah, I'll probably be waiting a long time.
Don't bother they suck.  If you want to see them, you can watch them on youtube.  I've played them and the controls aren't that responsive and besides, they aren't even a part of the official cannon anymore.
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on September 12, 2008, 01:05:56 PM
In Reply To #20

I disagree completely with this post, heh.  The graphics were fine for its time, as were the controls considering the n64 controller setup (but on an Emulator just remap the D-Pad to a Right-Analog for Legacy of Darkness and you have great Camera Controls).

Plus, it doesn't matter whether something is canon or not, it's still worth playing (I know Circle of the Moon is fun whether canon or not).

Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: erimocard on September 12, 2008, 03:22:06 PM
In Reply To #20

I have to agree with you, but many others do not. Anyway, I hate that moon/sun card shit, as well as the (imo) buggy camera and overall controlls, also the typical find-key-open-door-stuff. Dunno, but Castlevania has to be nonstop-action. The 64-CVs aren't.

...IMO
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: Abnormal Freak on September 12, 2008, 04:13:48 PM
Freak, don't forget to play Terranigma after you're done with Illusion of Gaia. :)

Was already thinking of it. :o I just found out there's apparently a fourth game in the "series," called The Granstream Saga for PSX, so I bought that off eBay for $12.01. :o

I love CV64 and LOD. They have their problems, but they're really fun games regardless. And yeah, the graphics are just fine. Camera is a little weird but not terrible. There's so much mood to those games, and I dig the area designs.
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: corneliab on September 12, 2008, 05:33:49 PM
Hey, this is excellent. I have exactly 500 Wii points left, and I was just about ready to waste them on something else.

I have the game running on Wii homebrew, but the degrading sound is too distracting. Also, it loads up Super Mario Bros. in the negative zone...
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: Dark Nemesis on September 12, 2008, 08:14:51 PM
In Reply To #20

I disagree completely with this post, heh.
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: erimocard on September 12, 2008, 08:46:52 PM
In Reply To #25

ZETSUBOUSHITA!!! PIKUTSUA INU PIKUTSUA NI ZETSUBOUSHITA!!!
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: Dark Nemesis on September 12, 2008, 08:48:02 PM
In Reply To #26

Ammmm.....come again? ???
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: Abnormal Freak on September 12, 2008, 10:48:52 PM
Seriously, CV64 just rules my socks off. So many fond gaming memories with that one. Loved it so much I even made a website for it and (when it came out) LOD back in the day. Far as I know, it was the most comprehensive CV64 and LOD website on the 'net. :o Mainly 'cos nobody else cared about the games to give them any attention. ;p Had all the secrets and walkthroughs listed before anybody had added anything to GameFAQs, and there was a profile page with pictures and art (whenever I could find them) for every character and enemy in the game.

...But it's dead now. ;p

I also feel kinda like a homo admitting this, but it's also the game that turned me into a full-fledged Castlevania fan. I'd played Super Castlevania IV plenty of times since it came out, and I had the opportunity to play Simon's Quest for a few days or so when a friend of my brother's left it at our house. But my brother never owned any other CV games until SOTN came out, which I also played religiously. After playing CV64 and devoting a website to it and everything, I decided I really wanted to play the rest of the games, so I bought the three NES games from Funcoland (aw yeah, just before they went out of business or changed their name or whatever), picked up a Genesis 3 for $15 and bought Bloodlines, and was lucky enough to find one sole copy of Chronicles, the only copy I've ever seen. Was livin' it up for quite a while, delving myself into both the Castlevania and Contra series and praising Konami with my ceaseless boner. :)
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: Rodriguezjr on September 12, 2008, 11:06:37 PM
Yes, now I guess all there is left is Bloodlines on the Genesis and Rondo of Blood, unless you already have DXC of course. Also, the N64 Castlevania games.
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: Abnormal Freak on September 13, 2008, 04:40:17 AM
Already got Rondo on the Virtual Console. (https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthedarkacademy.forumandco.com%2Fusers%2F25%2F76%2F37%2Fsmiles%2F725892.gif&hash=9a3bd241f490c730b17a0c736a090f08fa55dcb9) But yes, a US release would be really swell. I'd buy it. And Bloodlines. And the SNES Dracula X, which I think is a really swell game. And I'd definitely buy LOD on the VC for double-the-res goodness.
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: Reinhart77 on September 13, 2008, 04:41:10 AM
i hope they have the whole wii memory space issues worked out by the time the N64 Castlevanias come out on virtual console.
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: Abnormal Freak on September 13, 2008, 04:50:06 AM
I'm actually hoping Nintendo releases an official N64 "Classic Controller." They made one of the Super NES/Famicom controller (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9e/SFCC_Unboxed.jpg)--it's the exact same thing but plugs into a Wii remote, and it's splendid. They really, really, really need to do the same thing with an N64 controller. Playing N64 games with the regular Classic Controller doesn't quite cut it. The SNES and N64 controllers I've always held in high regard as my favorite controllers EVER, so now having the SNES style controller, having an N64 one would make my life complete. :o

And yeah, Nintendo really needs to fix the Wii storage problem. I've got I think four N64 games on there and two TurboGrafx-CD games, plus an assortment of NES, SNES, and Genesis games, and my memory is almost full. I really wanna download Ys Book I & II, but I'll have to transfer one of the CD games to a memory card first. Guess I'll move The Dynastic Hero after I've finished it. But still. :( I hate having some of my games on an SD Card. There's absolutely no reason I shouldn't be allowed to play VC games directly off an SD Card.
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: erimocard on September 13, 2008, 09:13:54 PM
In Reply To #32

Try the Gamecube controller. It's even better than the 64 one. I fukken love playing lylat wars with it. ;_; It's... Well, gooood. T_T

Thanks, god.
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: Abnormal Freak on September 13, 2008, 10:57:20 PM
I suppose using the GameCube controller for N64 games would be better than the Classic Controller, but still, I'd much rather have an N64 Classic Controller for the Wii. That controller is amazing, and there's no greater controller for playing first-person shooters, with the joystick used for looking, C Up and C Down for moving forward and backward respectively, and C Left and C Right for strafing left and right, Z trigger for firing, and R for jumping--in other words, Turok (or "Too Rock," a la Acclaim's South Park game) controls.
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: erimocard on September 13, 2008, 11:57:19 PM
In Reply To #34

The gamecube-pad has the same buttons. Only that the c buttons are a stick. Plus it's only got two... things. Not three. You know what I mean. Just try it, it's great.
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: Abnormal Freak on September 14, 2008, 01:30:06 AM
::) Try it? I've had the 'Cube since it came out and am very familiar with its controller and the ever-so-wonderful WaveBird. HOWEVER, I still prefer the N64 controller. Amazing layout, and the C buttons far beat the C stick. Plus, those pressure-sensitive shoulder buttons on the GCN controller are kinda dumb sometimes, especially for games that don't use the function.

And again, playing FPS on the N64 controller is amazing. I always feel retarded playing them on a GCN, PS2, or 360 controller. For me, it's either mouse+keyboard or N64 controller or nothin'.
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: Abnormal Freak on September 14, 2008, 01:32:44 AM
Oh, and speaking of the VC, I sure wish Nintendo would allow you to remap the buttons for every game. It's a bit frustrating playing two-button games with the B and A buttons on the Classic Controller instead of the Y and B buttons (the SNES standard). I've gotten used to the B-A layout, but I'd prefer Y-B.
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: Reinhart77 on September 14, 2008, 05:45:00 AM
amen to that.
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: erimocard on September 14, 2008, 08:46:52 AM
In Reply To #37

What? I own some VC snes games and they have the exact same button configuration as the snes pad. For example Mario World, where you run with Y and jump with B. Or are you talking about NES? There it's almost like you said, only that X and A are A and Y and B are B. but if you just take the wiimote sideways, it's pretty much exactly like the NES pad, only that start and select (+ and -) are over each other. Also there's a difference between playing a GC fps or a 64 fps with GC-controller. I always hated the n64 pad for it's bad design and it's unhandiness. The GC pad is waaaaaay better. IMO.
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: Abnormal Freak on September 14, 2008, 10:53:18 AM
Maybe you were holding the N64 controller wrong, with your left hand over by where the D-pad is, and reaching all the way over to use the joystick. ;)

Nah, I doubt you did, but there are a surprising amount of (stupid) people who did just that and said, "This controller sucks and is uncomfortable!" You consider the controller to have poor design, while I think it has amazing design. Playing Super Mario 64 or any other kind of 3D platformer never felt more right than with an N64 controller in my hand.

And yeah, I could just use the Wii remote for two-button VC games, but I really hate the Start and Select placements. It would be so much better if Nintendo would allow me to remap the buttons from B-A to Y-B. Somewhere along the line Nintendo thought that wouldn't be a good idea, despite that being the button layout for most Super Nintendo games. They did the same thing with playing GBA games on the DS, and even some DS games use B and A as the primary buttons, which is frustrating.

The Thrustmaster Wii (http://www.amazon.com/Wii-2-4Ghz-T-Wireless-NW-Gamepad-Nintendo/dp/B000WRZTAC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1221397162&sr=1-1) controller has button mapping on the thing itself, but the thing looks like a horrendous piece of crap and probably not all that comfortable. The D-pad in particular looks hideous. But I dunno, maybe it's a pretty darn nifty controller. Perhaps I'll pick one up sometime.
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: erimocard on September 14, 2008, 05:36:56 PM
In Reply To #40

Yeah, it looks hideous. But who knows. Let me know if you got it. At least Super Metroid has it's own button configuration. Too bad it gets boring after the XXXth playthrough.
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: Abnormal Freak on September 14, 2008, 07:51:48 PM
SUPER METROID NEVER GETS BORING and I've played it a billion times ever since it first came out.
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: Dark Nemesis on September 14, 2008, 07:54:07 PM
SUPER METROID NEVER GETS BORING and I've played it a billion times ever since it first came out.

Same goes for me!! ;)
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: erimocard on September 14, 2008, 10:02:24 PM
In Reply To #43

Actually... for me too. Kinda the best game evar.
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: Verboten on October 07, 2008, 03:27:48 AM
Can anyone help me set up Rondo of Blood on my Wiibrew?

I downloaded a wad file, as one forum instructed, but now I'm clueless as to what to do next.

Also, what's a better way of opening the emulators, besides the Homebrew Channel? Something that works and looks like Nintendo's Home would be better. 
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: Abnormal Freak on October 07, 2008, 06:38:26 AM
I think The Homebrew Channel is the only way to run apps besides using the Twilight Hack every time. (And who wants to crash their Wii every time? Once is enough for me.) What don't you like about it? I think it serves its purpose just fine.

Go to WiiBrew.org and look up WAD Manager. There's a download link and instructions on how to use it. Just be sure your Wii has enough storage space before installing--the program will attempt to install even if there's not enough space, and that could potentially damage your Wii. Rondo takes up 270 blocks.
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on October 07, 2008, 10:18:20 AM
Wii Engine will play Rondo's ISO/MP3/WAV Combination if you have a .TOC File...

The interface is a little wonky for an emu but it'll work.  Look up a .TOC creation method online for your setup.  The emulator will run the .TOC and play Rondo with no real issues (though my Rondo's messed up and I don't hear the voice clips on some cutscenes, but I'm pretty sure that's my file's fault and not the emulator's)...

...but this thread is not about Wii Emulation, so at the risk of derailing a thread...
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: The Last Belmont on October 08, 2008, 02:13:23 AM
It was about time...
http://www.vc-reviews.com/news/2008/09/oflc_update_castlevania_iii_draculars_curse_nes

is it the original version of the game with superior graphics and sound and story or is the NA dumbed downed, butchered version?

Quote
But I may just stick to the Japanese version since it's easier and uncensored.

Yeah the JP version is way better and I actually think it's harder. Drac is friggin ruthless in that one and will shoot the flame pillars up to bind you even if your right on top of him. The sound and graphics are much better and it has a better damage system and story too.
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: Marty Belmont on October 08, 2008, 03:37:05 PM
In Reply To #48


I've decided I'd rather have the american version.

some of the tracks have better arrangements in the american version (such as the Tower of Terror),

and the american version has more replayability options, (since you can input a password to start the game with sypha, you can take the lower path with her, for example)
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: Profbeanburrito on October 08, 2008, 04:45:51 PM
is it the original version of the game with superior graphics and sound and story or is the NA dumbed downed, butchered version?

Yeah the JP version is way better and I actually think it's harder. Drac is friggin ruthless in that one and will shoot the flame pillars up to bind you even if your right on top of him. The sound and graphics are much better and it has a better damage system and story too.

I find the American version harder. Especially playing with Grant, he makes it way too easy in the Japanese version, every attack he throws daggers. I do agree that the music is better in some areas, but I have to disagree with the Japanese version again for not having Flea Men and having those cat goblin things instead...So I'll take the American
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: Abnormal Freak on October 08, 2008, 05:34:04 PM
Hopefully the NES emulator for Wii will fix the sound bug and offer an original rendering mode, 'cos then I won't give a rat's ass that we never get the Famicom version of CVIII. :) Especially since someone already took the Japanese ROM and hacked in the English text, making it a translation of sorts, which is far more than Nintendo or Konami would ever do even if they did release it here, unless of course a remake were to be made.
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: Marty Belmont on October 27, 2008, 03:59:25 PM
was anybody else fully expecting CV III to be on the VC today? being that it's HALLOWEEN week and their hasn't been a CV in there since last year?

what's the freaken' hold up?

Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: Rodriguezjr on October 27, 2008, 04:50:46 PM
I was expecting the same as well seeing how Simon's Quest was released before Halloween. But anyway, even if it did came out, I don't have enough points for it.
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: Abnormal Freak on October 27, 2008, 05:52:50 PM
Nintendo sucks. They keep releasing bullshit WiiWare titles rather than the stuff that matters.

One new Virtual Console title a week is ass.
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: Rodriguezjr on October 27, 2008, 06:17:11 PM
Oh well, at least there's Earthworm Jim for today.
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: Marty Belmont on October 27, 2008, 06:22:02 PM
In Reply To #54

they've had a good streak going on lately, like Super Mario RPG, Mega Man, Tetris Party, that's why I was expecting it to continue.
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: Abnormal Freak on October 27, 2008, 07:09:53 PM
In Reply To #55

But the SNES version's better. :(
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: Belm0nt on October 30, 2008, 03:47:48 AM
In Reply To #8

Well, we all know how much IGA loves CVIII, so there just might be some sort of remake in the works. Most likely for the PSP I would assume....

Also, the three original NES Castlevanias on one DS card would rock too! There are so many games in the series that many of them could warrant a remake, but I think Simon's Quest and Dracula's Curse deserve it the most.(especially if they remade Simon's Quest in the same vein as OoE...)
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: E. Alexer Belmont on October 30, 2008, 05:24:10 AM
Nintendo sucks. They keep releasing bullshit WiiWare titles rather than the stuff that matters.

The games on the VC depends of the publisher, Konami in the case of CastleVania.

So is Konami who sucks
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: Abnormal Freak on October 30, 2008, 02:33:53 PM
In Reply To #59

Who ultimately gives the go-ahead on titles and allows which ones get released on what day? Hmmm, could it be...Nintendo?
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: Omegasigma on October 30, 2008, 03:03:02 PM
currently i do have cv3 on the wii, rondo if i may suggest using the jap file and tp hack, it works flawlessly, or homebrew channel, and i do believe theres an injected cv3 out there
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: The Last Belmont on October 30, 2008, 09:52:32 PM
In Reply To #20

I disagree completely with this post, heh.
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: Rodriguezjr on October 30, 2008, 11:27:03 PM
Well, it seems Europe is getting it tomorrow. Lucky them, but, it will probably come out soon here.
Title: Re: Castlevania III Dracula's Curse on Wii's VC
Post by: Abnormal Freak on October 31, 2008, 12:31:49 AM
Hmm. I wonder how well a PAL Virtual Console game runs on an NTSC Wii... :o

Nah, screw that. Not worth the trouble. Screw their slowdown!

Maybe this means that a US release will come this Monday. Or Nintendo of America will give us a Halloween treat.

Oh well, been playing the game on my NES 2 the past couple of days. Gotta love those vertical lines. (Not really...)