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The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: Super Waffle on September 18, 2008, 06:11:57 PM

Title: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: Super Waffle on September 18, 2008, 06:11:57 PM
It has recently occurred to me that, rather than going about the overcomplicated task of trying to seduce his son to the Dark Side while hanging out in an upside-down hidden castle in another dimension and relying a dead sorcerer who had already failed him twice, Count Dracula should have just ordered one of his pals to capture Maria and use her as a virgin sacrifice to bring himself back to living immediately after she stumbled into the castle looking for Richter.

Now, I know what you're thinking. "oh noez, Hulkster! You can't kill her off so quickly! That would ruin a perfectly good Belmont off-shoot storyline and a boss battle in the Saturn and PSP ports of SOTN!" But hear me out.

Think about it. The adult Maria Renard, lying helpless and unconscious atop Dracula's coffin. The only thing covering her nude form is a thin pale blanket pulled up to her collarbone. The Succubus watches nearby holding Maria's folded green dress, after being the one left to prepare her body for the sacrifice. Shaft's ghost leads the ceremony and, in the ultimate act of irony, Bad Richter is the one to plunge the knife into her. Her final blood-curdling scream as her blood empties onto the coffin echo through the castle, and the new form of Dracula is born into the living world. Hearing this, Alucard spends the remainder of the game in a near-invincible hotblooded rage as he takes brutal revenge on all of his father's minions and finally the Dark King himself for the poor girl's murder.

It would be epic.


For those of you who still disagree with me, I only have this to say:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eg8rplgBISk

That is all.
Title: Re: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: crisis on September 18, 2008, 06:19:27 PM
Interesting.

Are you aware of the removed 5th ending dialogue where Maria transforms into a demon?
Title: Re: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: Long John Silver on September 18, 2008, 06:24:45 PM
you're forgetting the timing. that trick only works during drac's every-100-years periods, and sotn happens after that period and dracula's yet another death.
Title: Re: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: erimocard on September 18, 2008, 06:27:22 PM
Wow. An entire topic for Maria and CVfan still hasn't shown up.
Title: Re: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: Super Waffle on September 18, 2008, 07:13:00 PM
Are you aware of the removed 5th ending dialogue where Maria transforms into a demon?

Yeah, but that was (presumably) supposed to end with a regular boss battle and Alucard just angsting about Richter and Maria instead of raging.
Title: Re: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: Sonic_Reaper on September 18, 2008, 08:26:05 PM
You seem to be forgetting that Maria is canonically (to an extent) near God-tier in strength.  She commands animal spirits and generally kicks ass all around.  She didn't fall prey to mind control like Richter did, either.  I would say that placing her in such a role pretty much trivializes her strength and reinforces the damsel in distress stereotype.  Why not just have random girl A be the sacrifice instead?
Title: Re: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: Long John Silver on September 18, 2008, 08:45:33 PM
well technically since she's such god tier and related by blood to the belmonts her blood is probably of better quality than that of a random peasant girl. :P
Title: Re: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: Super Waffle on September 18, 2008, 09:08:21 PM
A few things to consider here.

1.
Title: Re: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: Kale on September 18, 2008, 10:30:35 PM
A few things to consider here.

1.
Title: Re: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: Super Waffle on September 18, 2008, 10:34:50 PM
Random Girl A, doens'thave to, I bet those other 4 girls captured with Maria didn't walk into the Castle of Doom either.

I meant at the beginning of SotN.
Title: Re: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: Sonic_Reaper on September 19, 2008, 02:33:09 AM
Personally I wouldn't want to see this.
Title: Re: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: CVfan13 on September 19, 2008, 07:43:50 PM
Wow. An entire topic for Maria and CVfan still hasn't shown up.
Title: Re: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: Super Waffle on September 19, 2008, 11:06:02 PM
As for Richter saving Maria--well if you lose to Drac in SotN, she storms in and grants him infinite invincible strength--even as a child.
Title: Re: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: Sonic_Reaper on September 19, 2008, 11:19:04 PM
Except Alucard canonically defeated her.  By himself.

Uhm ... what does that have to do with anything?  Alucard's not the one being sacrificed here.  Besides, since Iga crapified Maria in the PSP SotN, I would definitely say Alucard's the strongest one of the two regardless.

Y'know, if you want to use gameplay mechanics to debate

So what the hale are you using to debate?  We know next to nothing about Maria besides her incredibly mysterious powers anyway.

we could just be arguing over why Dracula has never built a moat around his castle when the Achilles Heel of almost every single Belmont is seemingly their inability to swim.

Yeah--no.

A.  I'm using gameplay discussion that actually HAPPENED.
B.  Storyline-wise, what you're imagining would work better in Rondo.  Rondo Maria =/= SotN Maria.
Title: Re: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: Super Waffle on September 20, 2008, 12:10:03 AM
Quote
Uhm ... what does that have to do with anything?

Proves she isn't invincible.


Quote
So what the hale are you using to debate?

The fact that she isn't invincible in SotN and was already captured once in the past.  Those aren't gameplay mechanics, as they're script-based.


Quote
Yeah--no.

Yeah yeah.

If anything, SotN's canon events lean towards her powers actually weakening during her four years off.  The hero and villains alike don't constantly make mention of her superhuman powers like in Rondo any more.  Even the placement of some of the cutscenes seem to imply that her amazing abilities lie in craftfully avoiding the bosses instead of plowing through them, as Alucard is left to fight everything moments before/after meeting her again.

You're really overplaying the "making Richter invincible" part of the flashback, as well.  You seem to have forgotten that immediately after summoning the four spirits, she was completely exhausted and spent the remainder of the battle as dead weight.  Such a strategy isn't really going to be helpful for her in a direct confrontation.
Title: Re: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: Sonic_Reaper on September 20, 2008, 12:14:24 AM
Good points.

All that aside this isn't going to happen, so it's wishful thinking (on your part anyway).  Seems overly cliche regardless of who is captured and sacrificed.
Title: Re: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: Kale on September 20, 2008, 12:26:55 AM
You don't need to reiterate her powers in another game. But I can agree that it did leave her exhuasted, however, she is stil "god-like" in the Castlevania Universe. She's kind of like Storm from Xmen, god like powers, but she can't use it endlessly like Wolverine or Cyclops.
Title: Re: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: Thomas Belmont on September 20, 2008, 12:31:51 AM
Wtf!? When the hell did Maria all of a sudden become "god-like?"
Title: Re: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: Super Waffle on September 20, 2008, 12:49:06 AM
You don't need to reiterate her powers in another game. But I can agree that it did leave her exhuasted, however, she is stil "god-like" in the Castlevania Universe. She's kind of like Storm from Xmen, god like powers, but she can't use it endlessly like Wolverine or Cyclops.

I, er, just finished explaining how Maria is a non-element by the time SotN rolls around and everything falls on Alucard.
Title: Re: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: RichterX on September 20, 2008, 02:58:16 AM
She is like Storm from X-men? That just means she sucks! Horrible analogy IMO.
Title: Re: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: Kale on September 20, 2008, 07:05:04 PM
In Reply To #20

^If you think so, but Storm is super powerful.
Title: Re: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: darkwzrd4 on September 20, 2008, 07:40:42 PM
The version of Maria mentioned in this topic is the god-like one playable in NitM.  I don't think that she could be sacrificed due to the fact that she would have to be captured first and only Death or the controlled Richter would be capable of that and it wouldn't be easy for them.  Besides, why sacrifice her when she is that powerful?  If Shaft could control Richter, why not control Maria too, if she is that powerful.  She would be a better "guardian" than a sacrifice.  Plus, unless I'm mistaken, the offering only requires a virgin girl to be killed. So a ordinary girl from a village would do.
Title: Re: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: Long John Silver on September 20, 2008, 10:32:17 PM
in rondo times. in sotn times that won't work, the window of opportunity is gone already, next one being in 100 years. to resurrect drac now would require much more than a simple random human sacrifice.
Title: Re: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: CVfan13 on September 21, 2008, 12:20:35 AM
Umm... Waffle.... where did you get that Maria poster? If you tell me exactly where I can get it, thy sins shall have been repented for.
Title: Re: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: Super Waffle on September 21, 2008, 03:57:31 AM
The source image is from here (http://beautifully-twisted.deviantart.com/art/nocturnal-concerto-maria-80220880).  To make it a poster, I upscaled the picture in Photoshop and uploaded it to a store that you can pay to have them print and ship posters in whatever size you want to you.

I don't remember what I used any more, but I'm sure you can find a similar service by Googling "online poster creator" or something.  There's also Blockposters (http://www.blockposters.com/), which I used for my Twilight Princess poster (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v177/tenshousouhazan/the_room/room004.jpg).  It's free by itself, but it can still cost you a heap of your own photo ink depending on how big you want it.
Title: Re: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: A n t r a x x on September 21, 2008, 10:25:24 PM
Maria's too tough to be captured.

Who's to say Maria didn't soften up the castle before Alucard came onto the scene? Maybe she cleared the rooms for him.
Title: Re: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: paletteswapmonster on September 21, 2008, 10:48:35 PM
In Reply To #26

Of course. How else would Alucard have absolutely no trouble?
Title: Re: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: CVfan13 on September 22, 2008, 09:40:56 PM
In Reply To #26

Of course. How else would Alucard have absolutely no trouble?

Better yet, how would he have survived? No one, I mean NO ONE can take on the demon castle, except for Maria.
Title: Re: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: A n t r a x x on September 22, 2008, 09:58:18 PM
Well maybe that would explain the lack of difficulty in SotN.

 ;D
Title: Re: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: erimocard on September 22, 2008, 10:02:02 PM
In Reply To #29

Yeah, the REAL bosses were all dead, so Drac had only time to set up some normal enemies with slightly better stats. When you come to inverted castle, the bosses get much bigger and stronger.
Title: Re: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: paletteswapmonster on September 23, 2008, 05:24:26 PM
Well maybe that would explain the lack of difficulty in SotN.

 ;D
That's pretty much what I meant.
Title: Re: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: Lord_an on September 23, 2008, 07:41:00 PM
this topic is quite curious, I mean, it made me wonder why maria doesn't have a lot of important parts, maybe your story is very stupid, but what if maria would have been controlled by shaft firstly?, and then richter came up to save her, and in the process, being controlled too, and then, alucard coming to save the day, maybe they could have edited "the 5th ending", and could have done something like...emm, if you complete the game 1st time, you get richter playable, and by getting 180% or more, you get maria playable....that would have been wierd too, but, i see more sense in my example than in yours, since maria has amazing powers....no way she could get killed by richter as a sacrifice...

and sort of a question comes to my mind when I think of this......what if, after she would have been captured and taken off from her powers....and fulfill all the requirements to be sacrified(100 years after), drac doesn't come to life again??

OMG!! she wasn't virgin!XD


Title: Re: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: Super Waffle on September 24, 2008, 10:39:34 AM
OMG!! she wasn't virgin!XD

Is too.
Title: Re: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: A n t r a x x on September 26, 2008, 06:16:23 AM
Is too.
Title: Re: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: Kale on September 26, 2008, 09:34:39 AM
In Reply To #33

I need this Doujin.
Title: Re: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: CVfan13 on September 26, 2008, 10:06:11 PM
In Reply To #33

I need this Doujin.

Just PM me your e-mail address.  ;)
Title: Re: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: Dark Nemesis on September 27, 2008, 02:22:09 PM
In Reply To #36

Are you up to naughty business again?
Title: Re: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: CVfan13 on September 27, 2008, 08:35:24 PM
In Reply To #37

Yes, actually, why do you ask?  ;D
Title: Re: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: Dark Nemesis on September 28, 2008, 07:05:47 AM
In Reply To #38

So.....after all you are a little naughty boy!! ;D
Title: Re: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: le052383 on September 28, 2008, 03:01:52 PM
Just PM me your e-mail address.
Title: Re: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: Super Waffle on October 23, 2008, 10:31:53 AM
Looking back, and without getting too specific, it's kind of funny how OOE basically negates the entire "oh noez, you can't resurrect Dracula by sacrificing someone on a non-resurrection year" argument now.
Title: Re: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: Super Waffle on November 14, 2008, 08:46:27 PM
Really?

No one else wants to talk about that?

Even though it's official now?
Title: Re: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: dark_soul on November 15, 2008, 03:56:00 AM
@super
uhh unfortunately i think it's in a proper timeline, it is said that OoE occured late 1800's after SOTN, meaning that drac's already dead by that time (kicked by his son) then barlowe resurrected drac himself... but the weird thing was that why would barlowe set up dominus as a weapon against drac while drac is asleep?? i mean if barlowe wont resurrect dracula then what is dominus for at that time? just some tasty candy that shanoa and albus fights about? XD
Title: Re: Maria's role in SotN
Post by: Super Waffle on November 16, 2008, 04:41:13 AM
Short answer: