Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: Azmodan on November 24, 2008, 07:05:59 AM
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http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=930294&topic=46735314&page=1
I noticed on other forums, there's not so much love for Shanoa, yet plenty for, uh, Jonathan of all characters. Shanoa's dreary silence never bothered me; I'd rather have someone who takes a dry view to things rather than spout adolescent catchphrases.
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Shanoa wins. I like her dark demeanor, even when I can't take it seriously.
I like Portrait of Ruin, but I haven't seen heroes that corny and kooky this side of saturday morning.
Symphony of the Dawn..I mean Sorrow of the Night....I mean, Soma's second game...he was still serious and cool, but everyone else got stupid. And it kinda weighed on him.
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I'll bet if Jonathan never said "No Problem", people would like him a lot more.
sure he's cocky, but he's also a bit conflicted, struggling with his past and the truth about his lineage. his story is also more fleshed out over the course of PoR than Shanoa's is in OOE.
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In Reply To #1
There is your problem right there, its on GAMEFAGS.
Shanoa is better than both Soma and definitely Jonafag.
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Jonathan would've been fine if it wasn't for the dialogue he was given(same goes for Charlotte). He had a brash attitude & the "I fear nothing" swagger, but it just didn't feel right.
Soma was like the "innocent vampire" dude. His sprite is well animated (although his running animation looks awkward). Been a while since I've played DoS, but his script was.. ok. Also, it didn't make sense to have him *almost* succumb when false Mina was killed, but any other time when asked about their relationship he acts like a pre-adolescent. If that's your girl, Soma, then don't be ashamed!
It's the whole "kids venture into evil place & succeed" thing that annoys me. Shanoa, on the other hand, was down-to-business. Her character wasn't over the top, & fit the mood of the game perfectly. Only thing that bummed me out was that they didn't add sit-down animation for chairs ???
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I think Shanoa might just be my second favorite character. There's just something awesome about her that I can't quite explain. Other than her beauty, she's very determined and very strong, and even with her loss of memory and emotions, she still cares.
Soma was turned into a silly homosexual being constantly protected by Arikado who wants to act like his big brother. Oh that Soma!
Jonathan is just...Jonathan(in other words, "UGH!").
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Shanoa is fine for a game like OOE. Truth to be told, I hated that for no apparent reason they just took away all of her emotions. Seems like a cop out because they didn't know how to write a good female main protagonist. Jonathan sucks ass, but Soma is a lot more interesting and real than Shanoa, even though he is kind of teenage-ish sometimes, he's still badass in dawn of sorrow, infiltrating the cult's base and kicking their asses.
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he's still badass in dawn of sorrow, infiltrating the cult's base and kicking their asses.
He may have been doing something badass, but it doesn't mean he was badass while doing it.
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soma in dos was a weeaboo. he pretended to be an animu character, what with making his coat flutter around in the wind by using his hand to make it start moving. i bet he thought something like "ooooh, i'm soooo cool/badass/sugoi, like those badass chars in animu for teenagers" during that. :o
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In Reply To #9
I lol'd.
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In Reply To #9
Haha. I remember that. I noticed it at a glance and I was like "NO WAY. You gotta be shitting me, did he just..."
That was then followed by a facepalm.
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I like Soma more than Shanoa overall, but if we're only taking his Dawn of Sorrow appearance into consideration, then I'd say Shanoa is the best DS protagonist. I'm a bit intrigued that we know hardly anything about her, and her story was nearly wiped from the history books. Heck, I don't even know what actual year OoE takes place in, beyond it's in the mid 1800's.
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Maybe I dislike shanoa because OOE was just ok. I was expecting something more. I just think DoS is a much better game.
Also I found it kind of ridiculous that dracula's castle appeared at the end and she can go inside and destroy dracula in about 30 mins. They made her powerful along the lines of belmonts or alucard. Thats not cool!
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Also I found it kind of ridiculous that dracula's castle appeared at the end and she can go inside and destroy dracula in about 30 mins. They made her powerful along the lines of belmonts or alucard. Thats not cool!
Well, she did possess the Dominus Glyphs..
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well if there would be another castlevania movie shanoa won't be a new part of it, because at her part of story she's quite silent and terror type (she doesn't smile before) he's like gordon freeman who is almost completely SILENT but compared to other protagonists jonathan seems to be a pretty joker person and charlotte is a know it all girl and shanoa since she lost her memories temporarily she doesn't much prove to be a liking character, unlike soma he realized at the beginning what was going on. shanoa LOST but if it were to be in a different story it might turn out to be that shanoa's part of the story could turn out be more likely as alucard's SOTN :D
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I liked all of them.
Soma and the Sorrow plotline seemed the most detailed of the entire series, though.
Johnathan was kind of a dunce, but it was cool how he was half-Belmont in a way, using whips and other things instead of one or the other. He was like if Richter and Alucard had a baby, which I imagine is in a fanfiction somewhere.
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One thing I don't get is that there seems to be a thought that after the DS games each character must have this loud, flashy personality, if that makes any sense. Shanoa had the same level of personality as Alucard and Nathan Graves.
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Soma wasn't loud or flashy. He was the complete opposite. It was only Jonathan, then again his game is the one that... yeah.
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Well, I think that she is on par with Alucard and Soma. However, if she didn't loose her emotions, I think that she would have been a lot different. Then again, at the beginning when she still had them, she was just as serious.
Soma is only a little immature because it the future and his life isn't as hard as the other characters from the past. I think that his immaturity is on par with that of a teenager of our age, Dracula reincarnation or not.
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I dunno, I like Shanoa.
I mean Soma is right up there peronality wise with Alucard, except he seems to be a little more friendly (He's pretty nice to every new person he meets in Aria except Alucard but then if I ended up in who knows where, my friend is knocked out and some guy shows up out of know where, I wouldn't be pleased either...) and gets upset a little easier. He doesn't really stand out in Aria until "OMG...HE'S DRACULA? Technically?!".
And in Dawn, he was just...meh. Again, he didn't stand out at all and he seemed to be a bit more serious than in Aria. So honestly, I'm indifferent to Soma.
Johnathan just comes off as the generic "overconfident anime hero who actually has underlining self doubt". I couldn't take him seriously, but then again, I couldn't take the story that seriously given the Saturday Morning Anime feel it had.
And Shanoa..again, her personality itself doesn't stand out (except she's more robotic in Alucard) considering she's very serious, just like Alucard. The only difference is her reasoning behind it, which almost makes you wonder what she's like with emotions. I mean we saw her at the beginning but she was about to do something crucial so her being serious made sense.
But then again, out of the three games, I like OoE's story better so. :shrug:
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A lot of folks here basically said what I was going to say. For one, I don't understand how losing one's memories=losing one's emotions.
In all, I thought making Shanoa emotionless was something of a cop out. Johnathan had more depth as a character really. At least we know something of his lineage and something about him, whereas Shanoa just kind of shows up, does her thing, and leaves without much explanation.
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In Reply To #21
and yet she's still at least 100x more interesting and cool than the lame portrait animu-protagonists or dos caricatures of aos's heroes. ;D
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What's with all the Portrait of Ruin bashing? Jeez, it's like every other topic I visit, someone's throwing in the obligatory "BAW BAW ANIMU ART STYLE SUXORZ BAW BAW!" comment. It really gets annoying after a while.
Actually, It's probably the reason it took me a year after registering to finally make a post. Jeez. So the art style isn't your cup of tea. get over it. As long as the game plays well, I'll be satisfied.
On topic, whether Shanoa's really a better character or not (Don't know yet, I won't have Ecclesia until late December), people will automatically put her above Soma, Jonathan and Charlotte because her art style is more reminiscent of Castlevania's trademark art style. Though from what I've heard, she's got the least personality out of the three... *ibn4flames*
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In Reply To #23
I'll presume now that you're a fanboy(or you're just a silly person overreacting). No one is bashing PoR. People are just saying how lame Jonathan is because it's, I don't know, relevant to the topic. And by the way, people don't like Shanoa better because of the art style, it's because she's actually a better character. Her personality is on the same level as Alucard's. People just need to be more open-minded instead of saying things like "omigawd shanoa iz leik a robawt n haz leik noe personalitee lawl lawl lawl".
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Ya know, if someone has no emotions, they're like a robot. ::) That said, I havn't played Ecclesia yet, as I've said. If she isn't as emotionless as people say, or she gets a decent amount of character development, I'd consider her the best.
And yes, there is wanton bashing of PoR characters when it's not even on topic. a lot of bashing I've seen here involves the art style. If it's not SotN's art style, it's BA-A-A-AD! A few people have even gone as far as hanging Jonny and Charlotte's sprites, and so on.
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Play Ecclesia, and be open-minded.
People hate the DoS and PoR art style because it's bad, not because it isn't Kojima. It's just stupid, silly, and generic. You honestly can't say it's good. And people hang Jonathan and Charlotte sprites simply because the characters are utterly fucking horrible and they hate them with a passion. It shouldn't be hard to see why, really.
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In Reply To #26
Wait, you tell me to be open-minded, and then you rant on how much Jonny and Charlotte suck? Wow, ironic. Jonny's actually a pretty decent character once you get past the catchphrases. He sure as hell beats the pants off a good portion of Video Game characters out there.
Also, I'd love to play Ecclesia. Given the opportunity, I'd go out and buy it right now. Why don't I? Because I'm BROKE. Just because you haven't played a game doesn't mean you don't plan on playing it eventually.
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I'd prefer emotionless over Jonathan's angst with dad, arrogance, and etc.
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In Reply To #27
Johnathan just comes off as the generic "overconfident anime hero who actually has underlining self doubt".
And there's also...
"NO PROBLEM!"
"I MAY NOT HAVE THE WHIP'S POWER BUT I CAN STILL KICK YOUR ASS!"
"NO PROBLEM!"
"ONLY ONE WAY TO FIND OOUUUUUUTTT!"
"NO PROBLEM!"
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I'd prefer emotionless over Jonathan's angst with dad, arrogance, and etc.
Then never watch a Gundam series. Ever.
Exception being Wing. No, wait, Wufei angsts there too.
Quote
"NO PROBLEM!"
"I MAY NOT HAVE THE WHIP'S POWER BUT I CAN STILL KICK YOUR ASS!"
"NO PROBLEM!"
"ONLY ONE WAY TO FIND OOUUUUUUTTT!"
"NO PROBLEM!"
Ya know, I bet the writers REALLY regret writing that "No Problem!" line now. He doesn't even say it that often.
Jesus, Jonathan's called a piece of shit character because he says "No Problem", yet Resident Evil's Leon Scott Kennedy gets praised for lines like " Your right hand comes off?" and "No thanks...BRO!!!". WTF?
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In Reply To #30
What? Why do you continue to take things out of context and overreacting? What point are you trying to make? Is it really so hard to stomach that Johnny boy isn't a good character whatsoever?
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In Reply To #31
Is it so hard to stomach that there were actually people who liked Jonny and Charlote?
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In Reply To #30
Yeah. I only like Gundam for the mecha.
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I would like to actually know why people like Jonathan and Charlotte other than "jonathan iz teh kewl" and "omigawd charlotte fapfapfap".
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Jonathan: "No Problem!" aside, he's actually a pretty well developed character in his game. Moreso than most Castlevania characters.
Charlotte: Comic relief. Not much to say there.
And yes, I do like Charlotte for being a comic relief character. Both of them are better than the Lecarde sisters.
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Yeah. I gotta agree that the Lecarde sisters were lame. They were just sorta damsels in distress-Mary Sues.
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Jonathan: "No Problem!" aside, he's actually a pretty well developed character in his game. Moreso than most Castlevania characters.
Sure, but it's extremely hard to look past his massive silliness and arrogance.
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Most Castlevania heroes have a touch of arrogance. Hell, most Heroes in general have at least a little. In fact, a lot of people like video game heroes for their arrogance.
And I actually don't mind the silliness. Hell, I like Charlotte for hers.
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The problem is...
Saturday morning cartoon characters ≠ Castlevania
The massive amount of silliness compared to the other games makes the whole game feel like a silly Japanese spin-off parody.
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You make it sound like the whole game is silly. For the most part, the story itself (And when it comes down to it, Jonny as well) tends to stay pretty serious. Jonny just got a couple bad lines, and people hound him for it.
Thgouch Charlotte is still comic relief, but then again, So was Maria Renard for the most part. Boobies story, anyone?
In any case, just because the entire story isn't dark and brooding doesn't make it a Saturday morning cartoon. I sure as hell wouldn't want kids watching stuff like Black Lagoon. Besides, the Japanese already have a Castlevania spinoff parody. It's called Kid Dracula.
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The whole game is silly. The story may be very good, but it was horribly executed in the game, thus making it like a Saturday morning cartoon(silly and kiddish). Jonathan is a horrible character. He comes off as the generic overconfident anime hero who actually has underlining self doubt and is very, very, silly and ridiculous.
good lord, I'm using "silly" a lot today <_<
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Eh, I didn't feel like it was THAT silly. And even at it's silliest points, it still stayed at least marginally serious, unlike SotN's intro.
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At least SotN's prologue was actually enjoyable.
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What are you talking about? SotN's intro was a nightmare. Might as well hit the mute button while it's playing.
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You're exaggerating and have no sense of humor.
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Same can be said of you, with your attitude towards PoR. And as for my sense of humor, I do have one, it's just... unique. Yeah, it's special. Very special.
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Same can be said of you, with your attitude towards PoR.
How does that mean I have no sense of humor?
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The overreacting was what I meant, but if you really want me to give you a reason to suspect a lack of a sense of humor, you hated PoR for its silliness. There wan't even that much silliness in the game, yet it's the most bashed game here.
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THIS TIME LET'S FIGHT FOR REAL
I MAY NOT HAVE THE WHIP'S POWER BUT I CAN STILL KICK YOUR ASS
STOP TREATING ME LIKE A CHILD
NOW THIS IS ART
(SCREAMS)
And there's a lot more.
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DIE MONSTER! YOU DON'T BELONG IN THIS WORLD!
Somehow, the ones from PoR are worse. D:
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the silly lines in sotn (all 5% of them) are so bad they're hilarious and timeless. i mean, people still quote die monster
the silly lines in portrait (at least over 50%+ of them) are so bad they're embarrasing to read
:o
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Eh. Most of the "Silly" lines in PoR are just overly generic. Also, everyone screams.
Also, every time someone quotes the SotN intro in front of me, I smack a programmer. Usually the one quoting the lines. If I hear "Your words are as empty as your soul!" one more time, I'm spamming someone's mailbox with goat.se
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why do you think dxc's sotn remake exists then? they rewrote the whole script and rerecorded it, removing most of the cheese factor.
plus the script in sotn was written in old english style. portrait's written in "generic animu for teenagers with a japanese emo kid as a lead" style.
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Yeah, and people actually bitched about it, too. Adam Sessler, anyone? But I was glad about it, nevertheless. I plan on finding a nice PSP emulator and downloading it ASAP, so I can actually play through that game without all that cheese.
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In Reply To #54
People bitched about it because it lacked the "cheesy awesomeness" of the original. And come on, why listen to Adam Sessler of all people?
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I don't anymore. All he did throughout the Castlevania Judgement review was bithc about the character design change the entire time, then tacked on a side note about the camera being bad. It really cheesed me.
...Pun not intended. And if you want "Cheesy Awesomeness", you play a Resident Evil game, not Castlevania. Really, Jill Sandwich, anyone?
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And if you want "Cheesy Awesomeness", you play a Resident Evil game, not Castlevania.
You're missing the point.
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And you missed mine. What a coincidence!
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Also, everyone screams.
I'm ok with screaming but if the dialogue actually has it like:
(SCREAMS)
Then, that's a bit... >.<
Also,
(SOBS)
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Not really.
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In Reply To #59
Yeah, that's pretty bad, but it's kind of the writer's fault, not Jonathan's. Really, it's lazy scripting.
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If we removed all his dialogue, Jonathan would be tolerable, besides his silly boots with door knockers on them. Charlotte's design is a too school girl generic for me though.
In gameplay, Jonathan was awesome with his variety of weapons though most were dull. Charlotte's spells were good. But with both combined, it wasn't executed that well. The two character set up made it feel clunky in a way. It would have been better if there was just a single character. The times where two were actually needed like with pushing and jumping on each other also were rare. Needing to push with the two of them out also just seems unnecessary.
They could have been good, but the game was executed in a way full of silliness and redundancy.
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True, the doorknockers on his boots are retarded. I like Charlotte's schoolgirl look, though. >.>;;
I guess this game was kind of an experiment with the two character system, like Ecclesia was a test of the Glyph system. Lets see which one becomes more popular.
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In Reply To #63
it's obvious aos/dos's soul system is the most popular. it was in two games and then disguised as the subweapons in pork. :D
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Small question: Is pork PoR? Because Ecclesia's Glyph system is much closer to the Soul system than the PoR Subweapons.
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In Reply To #65
One of Serio's methods of hating on PoR is by adding the K on it.
Just clarifying. He means "PoR".
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In Reply To #66
Ah, so he's comparing Portrait to Pork Barrel Spending. But if Portrait's the Pork, what's the barrel?
*Read too much into it/Political joke*
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Because Ecclesia's Glyph system is much closer to the Soul system than the PoR Subweapons.
let's see
you obtain the soul by grinding enemies.
pork-check, ooe-check
the souls serve as addon/subweapon type stuff
pork-check, ooe-nope. in ooe they serve as main weapons.
in dos you can level almost all of them up.
pork-check, ooe-you can only level up the 5 familiar type glyphs. the others never change.
you use the souls by pressing up+attack or L button
pork-check, ooe-partial check, you use them with normal weapon buttons and use up+attack for the unions, which would be the equivalent of sotn's item crashes. soul system had nothing remotely similar to those in either of the sorrow games.
:o
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the souls serve as addon/subweapon type stuff
pork-check, ooe-nope. in ooe they serve as main weapons.
Glyphs kinda act as both, since I don't remember her using anything BUT glyphs, especially since they can be equipped as what would otherwise be a subweapon.
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They don't act as both. They act as main weapons.
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Then in that case there is no such thing as sub-weapons in OoE. I'd say they act as both nevertheless because Main Weapons typically don't use MP, and Glyphs do.
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That's just silly.
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Yeah, It's as silly as Charlotte Aulin, or the SotN intro. Seriously, though, my argument does make some sense if you actually think about it.
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No.
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You're one stubburn mule, ya know that?