Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: Malus on April 25, 2009, 04:59:00 PM
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This is my first post here just joined. Anyway being a longtime fan of Castlevania, and particularly the 64 games I remember really feeling attached to this Belmont. If you have seen the artwork on this character in the Millenium players guide he's pretty badass looking. Arms the size of most people's legs, 6 foot 8 or so and just monstrous in build. I think there is a community within the castlevania fan base that feels very different towards the 64 vania's then IGA and the majority. We like the darkness and mood of the 64 vania's over the PS2 games 10 fold. A lot of fans also really like the Game boy advance games over the DS games for mood, particularly Circle. The first vania that I really got into was the N64 game. I admit that it has some faults but it did get the mood/tone, and it had good overall level design. Some would go so far as to actually say those 64 vania's are over rated. Their really not championed by enough people though IMO to be over rated. But if you look at that Art in the Millenium players guide to Castlevania 64 Reinhardt does look pretty awesome and even in game his arms are all cut and he's pretty imposing as a belmont imo.
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Well, it was good for that time. It was also the first 3d castlevania. So, it deserves props for that. However, I'm not the bigest fan of that game.
I personally don't like the stage by stages games. I prefer the ones which are referred to as "metroidvanias" in which you have to explore and backtrack through all the areas and aren't locked in to one specific area. That is why as far as the 3d castlevanias go, I prefer the PS2 games.
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I used to not like the game when it came out, but I didn't exactly get that far. About a year ago I decided to sit down and actually play it and I found out that I absolutely love it! I think it did a good job of portraying the classic 2D gameplay in 3D. It was all platforming, it had good level designs but added more depth by introducing multiple characters and adding a bit more to the story.
I think the new 3D games should combine the adventure and the platforming of the 64 games with the action and story of the PS2 games. Taking a little bit of what made those games good, and adding more to it would make for good modern age Castlevania game.
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There's no question that its no symphony of the night. The 64 vania's are not without faults. Symphony is a bullseye, perfectly conceived perfectly executed with great detail and skill. However I do feel that the 64 vania's are flawed gems in the series that have been treated unfairly. My thoughts on it
1) First 3 or 4 stages were perfect, start out in the forest with a quick cross your heart hope not to die, then proceed during thunderstorm to the castle walls, from their up the giant twisting staircase to the top, defeat the ancient white dragons and proceed to be ridiculed by what appears to be Dracula," Miserable worm, upstart weakling" from their the awesome villa stage, an okay tunnel stage and the castle center, after that the game goes mostly downhill in its beauty.
its a flawed game, but has some superb moments.
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I agree with a lot of what you're saying, Malus. Visually and story-wise, Reinhardt Schneider is one of the best Castlevania leads, if not the best. As far as those with Belmont blood, the pre-SotN Ritcher or Legends version of Sonja are the only ones who can compete with Reinhardt's coolness factor (outside the Belmont Blood, Cornell, Nathan Graves, and Jonathan Morris are also awesome-looking leads). Looks aside, the sign of the cross to start off the adventure and his tense/compassionate relationship with Rosa really make Reinhardt a memorable Belmont. This is my fav pic of Reinhardt: http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/cv64/offart/cv64-offart1.jpg
Regarding the 64 games themselves: I thought they were solid when they came out, but my respect has only grown for them since. They were very ambitious. It's been revealed through early trailers and beta tests that there was actually more ideas planned for these games than could be executed in the development time. Still, they used 3D space excellently, and I hope future 3D CVs will take more cues from CV64/LoD. The mixture of consequential action-platforming with puzzles and items was great. I liked the way it was level-by-level, but still felt expansive. Usually the non-linear CVs like SotN can get bogged down with a bit too much aimless hallway-walking and backtracking. CV64/LoD had the best of both worlds.
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I'm still waiting for the day when they realize they should take the concept of the N64 Castlevanias and mix it with the concept of the PS2 Castlevanias.. The PS2 Castlevanias has an amazing atmosphere and beautiful texturing and leveldesign, but the thing is.. they're basically fighting games.. In the N64 Castlevanias at least you had obstacles to get passed and towers to climb, there were traps and puzzles etc. If I throw myself toward the edge of a tower, I would like to fall down. I don't wanna be protected by an invisible wall XD
Hopefully things will be improved in the next-gen Castlevania
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Thanks for the response guys as I like hearing from other people that "got" what KCEK accomplished with the 64 vania's.
what asks most that hate them with a passion. TO THIS DAY, I still get chills up my spine when I walk over the castle draw bridge, Reinhardt extends his massive arms and examines the closed grate the music is perfect at this moment. Then the journey continues, save at white jewel.
These games on 64 have such a forboding dread to them, a barren almost silent hill like quality that's hard to pin down. also the games have a sense of journey to them, you actually feel like you've traversed a considerable distance when you finally reach the clock tower and fight dracual's servant.
I love Carrie and Reinhardts quest, not so much cornell's though.
Strong levels
forest of silence, castle wall, castle center, clock tower,
so-so levels
tunnel, duel-tower, tower of science, tower of sorcery,
crap level, imo
tower of execution, both legacy and 64 just didn't get that level right, in that it's just not a fun level to play imo.
AWESOMOE levels
villa, the finest locale in ANY castlevania game, even symphony has no reach here.
so dark, so dank and mysterious. Plus Silent Madness is one hell of an awesome track, and you have the awesome Renon the salesmen introduction. Plus the Rosa Intro, and the Malus chase in the maze garden with the stone pit bulls and chainsaw freak! FTW
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In Reply To #8
Excuse me? Cornell's awesomeness beats the pants off of Nathan's.
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Reinhardt Schneider reminds me of Arnold Schwarzenegger. His body size, the hair style. It's as if konami took the terminator and stuck him Castelvania.
-X
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Good comment X, he's got some serious strength no doubt about it. I always figure with games like castlevania that part of the fun is in the imagination. They really suggest a lot about Reinhardt if you ask me. First the guy probably could win in a worlds strongest man competition. He's strength and agility as well as fighting prowess are un-rivaled of the human population.
Cornell the werewolf is stronger physically than Reinhardt, and such, but Reinhardt captures the imagination better than Cornell. That means that if Dracula has the strength of 20 strongman, than Cornell must be 1/4 as strong, and Reinhardt 1/10th. Still that doesn't factor the power of the Vampire Killer whip, nor the power of his fighting skills and the purity of his heart and dedication to his duty.
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Another thing that captured my imagination is at the Castle Wall. Upon entering the Castle entrance the drawbridge closes. After that Reinhardt takes both arms and examines the iron grate by grabing it and testing its strength, Cornell however extends only his left arm to examine the grates strength, that always got my attention that he was at least twice as powerful as Reinhardt. NOT fact, just sugggested by my imagination. Castlevania 64 got my imagination as I played it when I was an early teenager. No other vania has captured my imagination like those games, and those games are viewed very harshly, so It does sadden me that I view them as wonderful entries in the series and IGA and the majority think otherwise.
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I can't say I ever cared too much about Reinhardt. I'm not sure why.. It just feels like he doesn't really fit in. His style isn't Castlevania-ish to me. He looks too.. american to be in a Castlevania game XD Castlevania also falls under the "gothic" category, and his looks and overall design doesn't fit in that category. Reinhardt fits in Castlevania probably as much as the motorcycle riding skeletons.
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You're entitled to you opinion gravekeeper, but I find Reinhardt to be very gothic looking. The hair color for one, the green trim on his boots, the brown pants he wears, his demeanor also. But your opinion is respected, I've always seen him as my idol. He looks somewhat american maybe in the face, so I could see your point their.
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Sorry about this, but I hate Reinhardt Schneider,
I hate him, and hate the morris and Nathan Graves and Hugh baldwin and all those badasses those had the VK and aren't Belmont.
And the agme is crap
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yeah he'd not for everyone, but for those of us who don't like him and his strict adherence to "gods code" hence christianity, their's always Carrie who I think is one cool character. She's not religous in any way, yet she's not evil either, she has mystical powers that Reinhardts brute physical strength lack.
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In Reply To #15
Except Nathan and Hugh don't wield the VK. :P
Also, CV64 might not have been the best Castlevania around, but CV:LoD was made of Epic, Awesome, and Instawin.
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Dio Brando made a good point. CV 64 has gotten a bum rap, but Legacy is an improvment. Even though Lament of Innocence is a medicore/decent game at best, its follow-up curse of darkness if anything is 2 steps back.
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Reinhardt's pretty cool. Dig the hair and armor and all. But like most Belmonts, he lacks personality.
Read: he's kinda boring.
Good character design from the looks standpoint tho.
I like him better than Cornell, but less than Carrie and Henry.
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In Reply To #19
Yes I dig the hair too! Henry has even less personality though than Reinhardt. However I agree with you that Carrie looks better than Reinhardt and has more personality. For many playthroughs I never used Carrie, but eventually I started to and I realized I had been missing out. She controls better than Reinhardt, she's faster and her orb attack is more fun.
She is one of the coolest castlevania main characters to date.
The problem with Reinhardt is that he's too much of a "holy" man. He's not dark enough, their should be a bit more texture their, or at least their could have been. More character development. But bringing polygons to life is no easy task and few development teams manage to pull it off.
IMO life after the 64 vania's in the CV series has been rather bleak.
I've moved on to other "relationships". ie, Devil May Cry that are dark and gothic while being "successful" in providing 3D awesomeness.
I think very little of IGA and his current castlevania work after CV: Symphony,
people were just fooling ourselves if we can't admit its mostly gone downhill.
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In Reply To #19
She is one of the coolest castlevania main characters to date.
She really is. I like how her future mother side shows up when talking to Malus and the like. She's a kid but conversing ahead of her years.
The problem with Reinhardt is that he's too much of a "holy" man. He's not dark enough, their should be a bit more texture their, or at least their could have been. More character development.
Well, Henry had a noble cause too, but he dished out justice with a revolver AND a suit of mideval armor. What more amount of "win" do you need? ;)
IMO life after the 64 vania's in the CV series has been rather bleak...
...people were just fooling ourselves if we can't admit its mostly gone downhill.
Well for one, that team, Kobe, is defunct. For another, you'd have to be more clear if you're comparing this 3D game to the 2D ones (which is not advised, as their goals are so different), or whether to the 3D PS2 ones.
Cv64 had some great atmosphere and drama, but it lacks a lot of technical finesse, which the PS2 Cvs pull off a lot better. I'd say the PS2 Cvs are a lot easier to pick up and play (in fact they have superb controls), but lack the level-design and thus intrigue to keep people playing.
That said, like most who have played both 3D eras of Cv, I think mixing the concepts and execution from both will yield the best end result. We will find out with this new NEXT-GEN game on the horizon, whether Konami has realized the same.
On thing that can be said, they all have awesome, moody music :D
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In Reply To #21
I could quote you but you know what you wrote, and it just fills up the "wall" too quick... If I have a huge wall of words no one in their right mind will read it.
I'd have to say of all the posts and comments I've read that Antraxx is the smartest and has the best taste of anyone of us on here. Plus a really, really cool avatar. Love the girl with the blinking eyes, nice!
Sure mix the PS2 vania's with the 64 vania's for win. But its really not that simple in execution. Outsource maybe? Nothing is perfect in this life, but thank god at least the music in the series is still great! Look I try to be optimistic, but it all boils down to talent, and I just don't feel that these guys CAN make an awesome castlevania in 3D.
I like the 64 vania's because they have a "Silent Hill" charm to them. They have good art direction/style/soul. And I do agree that their not as user friendly as the PS2 games which have better pick up and play accesibility, but IMO no style other than yawn, and zero soul.
The PS2 games should look 3 times better than the 64 games, but because the art style and level design is poor, they don't. IMO they have a plastic look to them, the characters look plastic, too soft. The stages look plastic, too soft.
But for whatever reason their medocrity is excepted and they get a "soft landing" while the 64 games with soul/style were "crucified".
in short, there is no justice.