Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: Saner on June 24, 2009, 01:09:26 PM
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best character select screen too!
yeah it has its technicalities but overall much better in
many aspects. also thankfully, the NITM team were not sexist like IGA's team was.
yeah I know DXC also has Maria playable in the SOTN included. but it's so hard to search for PSP SOTN related stuff without ending up with DXC (Rondo Remake) media instead. and there isn't even a walkthrough of PSP SOTN Maria. but I still say Saturn Maria is more hardcore. and I like the expansions of the castle.
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I certainly don't disagree, put it that way. NitM dosen't always quite run as smooth as SotN, but it's not that big of a problem really. The added areas, music, enemies and items make it worth it, plus the option to play as any character right off the bat.
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In Reply To #1
I hate it, I think it's awful. The two new areas aren't even worth it. All the enemies there look like trash. The music isn't anything special. All the effects look trashy. And playing as Maria in the PSP version is so much better than Maria in NitM.
Oh, and Richter's other outfit looks like crap.
I think that game is trash, and I'll take the PSX version over it any day
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For me DXC Maria has better design, but NITM for me is far better in combat and movement terms. Also the extra stuffs they might not be something big, but they are still welcome from me. I woyld like DXC SOTN to be like the NITM but with fixed the technical problems and the extra stages and enemies having the same quality as the rest of the game. That would have been the ultimate SOTN.
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In Reply To #1
I roll my eyes a million times! ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
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In Reply To #1
Yeah, Iga is real sexist. That's why he worked very closely with Ayami Kojima and the woman who did the music for many of his games, I for got her name. And that's why he had Shanoa be the main character in OoE. I bet you're one of those white people who go ape shit if somebody makes a derogatory comment about a minority.
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In Reply To #3
To be fair, I think the areas were supposed to have been in the game in the first place. They were just finally added in the Saturn version. The PSX version even has the hidden floor tile that takes you down there.
But yeah they aren't that memorable.
As for Maria... really dude? I like playing as Maria in the Saturn version far more. She's got a huge arsenal of moves, a triple jump... while the PSP version just has basically Rondo Maria all-grown-up (same powers).
It is quite nice to select the characters from the get-go... but yeah Richter's alt-costume is hodge-podge.
Other problems are Saturn-exclusive limitations (the loading times, the dithering, the different speed).
Over all it's just 'different'. I can definitely play the crap out of that game on my emulator though. The music quality is higher than the PSX's XA audio too.
I wouldn't call it 'trash' though. Still a solid title.
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In Reply To #1
Yeah, Iga is real sexist. That's why he worked very closely with Ayami Kojima and the woman who did the music for many of his games, I for got her name. And that's why he had Shanoa be the main character in OoE. I bet you're one of those white people who go ape shit if somebody makes a derogatory comment about a minority.
That last comment was not necessary at all. Keep the flames out of this.
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I get annoyed when people refer to Nocturne in the Moonlight as if it's a name exclusive to the Saturn version. You know the PSX version was called NitM in Japan too, right?
That's all I've got to contribute. I have the Saturn version, but I don't have a Saturn to play it on. Never got the emu working either. :(
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In Reply To #9
I agree. Same name either way, even though it's different. Though what annoys me more is when people try to say the PSX SotN is NOT NitM. Same game. That's like saying Portrait of Ruin is not Gallery of Labyrinth.
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I think it would have been nice to have those hidden areas in the PSP version too, though...just for completion, unyuu~!
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I call it NITM because it's easier to reference that way since USA Saturn never got it. it remained as a Japanese exclusive. as such, the Saturn version should be called NITM instead of SOTN since it wasn't localized.
In Reply To #1
Yeah, Iga is real sexist. That's why he worked very closely with Ayami Kojima and the woman who did the music for many of his games, I for got her name. And that's why he had Shanoa be the main character in OoE. I bet you're one of those white people who go ape shit if somebody makes a derogatory comment about a minority.
He only worked with those women because they have the talents he needs to make his games better. He only valued their talents above all else. Of course he respected them, but storywise and game concept wise, IGA never liked females as the lead role.
He is sexist in the sense that he believes females should not match or exceed what the hero guys accomplish in the Castlevania games.
That's why he removed Sonia Belmont from the timeline instead of making Lament of Innocence a remake of her GB game. That's why he made the "first" Belmont in the timeline a guy instead, when Castlevania Legends already
established the first Belmont.
*****OOE spoilers******
That's why he crafted Order of Ecclesia's story and finale
so that Shanoa's efforts are never recorded and left forgotten by history. And the only reason OOE's main character was female, was because the artist hired to do the character designs preferred drawing females. And IGA let him make the lead a female character, so that the artist's work morale would be as good as possible. But overall, IGA really didn't care whether there was a female as the lead character in a main Castlevania or not.
He just let things pass because team morale is more important than his own rejection of female leads.
That's why SOTN on PSX didn't have Maria playable. not because of time constraints but also because Maria was never one of the priorities to IGA.
well yeah in Portrait of Ruin, there was some sort of equality, but anyone can tell you that he made the guy the lead role with the girl as the "sidekick". Why not have Charlotte be the Morris whip wielder and Jonathan the Aulin magic user? IGA watches too many westerns....
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He only worked with those women because they have the talents he needs to make his games better.
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In Reply To #13
All of that is fan speculation. Nowhere in the game does it say that Alucard is the father of her baby. Why the fuck won't people get that through their heads.
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even if that were true, there was no reason for IGA to remove Sonia Belmont, the original first Belmont in the timeline and the first to use the Vampire Killer.
if Alucard's involvement conflicted things in anyway, he could have just removed Alucard from Legends' story until Trevor faces him in Castlevania III.
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In Reply To #15
The same thing could be said for her replacin Trevor who was the first Belmont BEFORE she was invented. Your just mad cause you got this weird fascination with IGA bein sexist
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In Reply To #15
You make it sound like Leon beats her like an abusive boyfriend! She sacrificed herself willingly to help him. He never forces her! Geez, get over it, Sonia is no longer the first Belmont, Leon is. And until you have 100% truth, its kind of rude to go around claiming someone is sexist, or really any kind of prejudice.
In Reply To #13
All of that is fan speculation. Nowhere in the game does it say that Alucard is the father of her baby. Why the fuck won't people get that through their heads.
Fair enough, this is never said, but it is implied that they have had some sort of romantic involvement. Its pretty easy to see it was probably meant this way
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Sonia was removed from the time line when he made it because her game contradicted other established events and known dates from previous games.
Given the rest of the posts you've made in this thread though, I can see where you would blindly ignore facts like these in an effort to further your baseless arguments.
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Back on topic, I can't say whether NitM is better than SotN. NitM had all three characters available from the beginning, But has a slow loading time and seems glitchy. Even though the PSP version of SotN had Maria as a playable character, she had the same moves as in RoB (which I think are a little childish). Why couldn't they give her the moves that she had in NitM. Those moves were awesome from what I could see. They were just a little overpowered.
Here is how I would have made Maria for the PSP version of SotN:
1) She would have the special moves and not subweapons
2) The special moves would use hearts instead of using a magic meter
3) The damage done by those moves would be reduced compared to what they do in NitM
4) She would only have a double jump
5) She wouldn't have the invincibility move
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I call it NITM because it's easier to reference that way since USA Saturn never got it.
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The whole Maria not being in SotN could very well have been due to time restraints.
It was. IGA already mentioned it in a DXC interview. He said they were going to add something in that they couldn't on the PSX, because of time issues.
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Sonia was removed from the time line when he made it because her game contradicted other established events and known dates from previous games.
well that's a stupid reason to replace her. and further proves IGA is sexist. cause instead of just reworking the story, he completely made a new character.
He could have used Sonia for LOI and just reworked her story. he didn't have to blow her off entirely. She wasn't
the problem, it was just what you said, her game's story contradicted events and dates. Not the character herself.
so there.
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I'm one who thinks NitM (Saturn) didn't need to be made, and that it only kinda tarnishes or at least threatens the awareness of SotN, which is a far better version of the game. But that was then, when SotN was still fighting to survive on the charts, now of course not much can stop the word of mouth about how good SotN is. Still I feel a little sorry for those players that play NitM instead. It really should only be experienced after playing SotN, because NitM has some pretty apparent flaws that hold it back from reaching SotN's greatness.
But since it IS there, I do think every SotN fan should at least try it.
The new content is mostly forgettable, sans the Cursed Prison -- a new bridge between Marble Gallery and Underground Waterway -- for giving us both a new shortcut and a fantastic eerie pipe organ dirge through Chaconne c moll.
The new sprites are laughably cartoony and the new remixes are washed out and too cross-genre. I wouldn't say they're even near as good as their originals from their respective games, and a few don't even go with the settings they're placed in. Not to mention that a couple of these remixes are just remixes of themselves.
Then there's the extra loading (the intermission rooms are used poorly) and sloppy map interface (you have to go into the menu first), and the graphics are noticably worse in parts as well, especially with transparencies (fog n' stuff).
And while Maria is absolutely kickass, her game gets boring quickly as she is too overpowered and there isn't much that can stop her. So despite DXC's dumbing down of her repertoire, it's a much more rewarding quest at least. It can be fun just to goof around with NitM's Maria, (That sounds dirty :3 ), but DXC's Maria also fits better with her girlish personality from RoB, and so it makes more sense in a lot of ways. The two different aged versions of her in DXC even share some moves.
There is also a new feature to 'hold' a readied item in the right hand, so you can theoretically down a potion in realtime during a fight. The problem with this is, you're finger is likely to slip at some point and waste something important, but at least KCEN saw the shortcomings in the menu's delay and tried to compensate.
In NitM's case, it seems bigger is not better. Most added content was unnecessary as it doesn't really enhance the value that already was SotN -- which in my mind was a near perfectly-crafted game -- and in many ways it might actually detract from it. The new stuff feels tacked on, unpolished and questionable, and the solid engine of SotN is tainted with small oversights and interface snafus.
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mew mew mew!!!
its debatable whether the added content is worthwhile or not,
but many people play NITM cause it has more despite the
technical tidbits, and they still have more fun than SOTN,
which to me feels incomplete.
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well that's a stupid reason to replace her.
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well that's a stupid reason to replace her.
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In Reply To #24
How does it "feel incomplete"?
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The loading times in the Saturn version (aside from maybe the boss loading times) aren't LONGER; they're just handled differently. The CD rooms in the Saturn version don't even trigger the loading sequences until AFTER you reach the very end of them. I believe that the CD rooms just became a staple of the series in the end, anyway, though, because it seems as though they've been kept in newer games, even though newer games of this type haven't been released on disc-based systems.
I do feel that the Saturn version of NitM/SotN is the best, though. Really, I stand behind anyone who says that the PlayStation, PSN, PSP and XBLA versions are incomplete, because they ARE incomplete. Until there's something of consequence underneath the trap door at the beginning of the game, that game IS NOT complete.
And I couldn't stand playing as PSP Maria. First off, she's severely underpowered. Secondly, she'd get hit and knocked back by ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in the inverted caverns when I played. Annoying.
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The loading times in the Saturn version (aside from maybe the boss loading times) aren't LONGER; they're just handled differently. The CD rooms in the Saturn version don't even trigger the loading sequences until AFTER you reach the very end of them.
That's the whole point of the CD rooms: as you walked through them in SotN, the game WAS loading so that you didn't have to wait for it when you reached the end of it. In NitM Saturn, you have to wait for the loading even after using your time to walk through the room.
And, yes, you do have to go into the menu to view the map each time: another messy delay, and yet another hidden load time is present when you attempt to go back to the game from it.
There's also extra slow-down when too many enemies are present, and some areas have staggered loading within themselves, like they have to load a new section.
NONE OF THIS was present in SotN. You could say neither were the additions of the other things like music and playable Maria, but what I'm saying is SotN never needed them (except Maria). They just feel out of place, unbalanced and unnatural. Even the new music.
Maria's great: she's a power goddess with a fucking triple jump, but it's her assets that devalue the purpose of the secondary quests in the first place, which were to give a more classic CV run for the same castle. But her game turns out to be a challengeless, and thus uninteresting 10-minute frolic of completely owning everything onscreen. She's so deadly that's it IS fun just to witness all the destruction and the various ways she deals it... for awhile. But when you realize that's it's nothing but an unstoppable linear romp from one room to the next with no obstacles or satisfaction from accomplishing any goals... well you tend to feel unsatisfied.
It's like equipping Soma with the Panther, Bat and and fireball souls (I don't remember the real name of the fireball one) -- YEAH it's a blast to tear through areas near the end of the game, and it's a much quicker way to get around, but would you feel satisfied playing a whole game of that? I don't think so.
Maria can triple-jump over everything -- every attack, projectile and platform. She can also wholly defend any incoming damage and she can deal a flurry of punches and kicks from a safe distance.
If you thought RICHTER'S game was shallow, imagine raping that of any challenge whatsoever, but with the same featureless, storyless, streamlined castle.
Yay.
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In Reply To #25
wtf you mean she wouldn't be able to pass on the Belmont name? wtf. you sound sexist too.
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In Reply To #30
Boo Hoo! Cry about it some more...
"I'm sorry sir, we can't give you another loan"
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In Reply To #30
maybe because women typically take the last name of the husbands? And because theres almost no chance in hell that in that time and age her husband woulda took hers or left hers unchanged
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The sexism card is just as annoying as the race card. And a lot of time, they always seem to be played in the wrong oppertunities.
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The only mildly interesting thing in NitM that SotN didn't have is playing as the massively overpowered Maria Renard. I can see why many people don't like how she is, but I thought that her special moves were cool but overpowered. Also, I didn't like the moves she had in the PSP version of SotN. they seemed a little childish. They were the same moves as RoB when she was 12 years old. I know that she is only 5 years older in SotN and NitM, but I would think that she would have more adult moves at that time. Older animals don't equal more adult moves. As I said before, I thought the moves she had in NitM were cool but overpowered.
To be honest, what I think would be cool is if a she got her own game that shows exactly what she went though while searching for Richter. As it is said, she had been searching for him for a whole year before she met Alucard in the castle. I know that it is a long shot but I really think that it would be kind of cool if done right. Also, it would give the series another with a female protagonist aside from OoE which had Shanoa.
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To be honest, what I think would be cool is if a she got her own game that shows exactly what she went though while searching for Richter.
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Wow. Are you for real, Seaner? There is a limit to how much garbage you can spew.
wtf you mean she wouldn't be able to pass on the Belmont name? wtf. you sound sexist too.
Pro tip; women don't pass on family names, especially in the pre 1950's. Fact of life, live with it, you day dreaming equality hippie slob.
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oh yeah well how about Sonia became a Belmont after getting married huh? maybe her spouse would end up being killed by Dracula, and she finds the whip.....
so that goes to show one way it could work.
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In Reply To #37
But then she technically would not be a Belmont by blood herself, and her power would be unfounded.
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The only way I can see Sonia existing in the main line is if she was the sister to a male Belmont heir, but he was too young to wield the whip at the time, hence she had to take it up and rise to the occasion. But either way, her child would not continue on the main Belmont lineage. Though, I think I made it a point elsewhere, as far as the branching off into other families, she can do that. I mean, that's likely how the Morris clan is connected to the Belmonts(female Belmont married into the Morris family, hence her children would be Belmont blooded Morrises). And as far as that was concerned, such a role as being the connecting link of two families, that's no small role. That female Belmont, alone, is responsible for the Quincy Morris, many years later, as well as John(uh, and Jonathan...urgh... two out of three ain't bad).
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In Reply To #38
alright fine,
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...alright seriously? This thread reeks of stupidity and is about one more Saner or Saner-esque post away from getting locked.
Saner, are you actually serious about this entire thread or are you doing it just to get a rise out of people and get attention?
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In Reply To #40
Either way, it's just way too stupid to be an actual thread by now.
I'm almost considering this to be just a spam thread. Please curb any need for posting if there isn't some kind of rational thought behind it.
We're not in Grammar School, you know.
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...alright seriously? This thread reeks of stupidity and is about one more Saner or Saner-esque post away from getting locked.
Saner, are you actually serious about this entire thread or are you doing it just to get a rise out of people and get attention?
Im serious, IGA shouldn't have messed with Sonia. in fact I think Castlevania Resurrection (which was cancelled) was supposed to be a remake or retelling of Sonia's story, but IGA put a stop to that.
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In Reply To #43
That's not the case at all, and Resurrection had NOTHING to do with Legends' story.
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In Reply To #43
That's not the case at all, and Resurrection had NOTHING to do with Legends' story.
Yeah. From what I understand, it was suppose to take place during the year 1666 I believe and supposedly Dracula was such a powerful threat the more than one Belmont was needed so through the miracle of time travel Sonya was suppose to appear to help out. If you ask me, it was a stupid idea (almost as stupid as this thread has become) and I'm glad it was canceled. Such a screwed up idea would have killed the series.
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In Reply To #45
As far as whether or not it would have been a good game isn't really an issue. I'm sure if Aria of Sorrow were cancelled we'd sneer just as much at the plotline. 2035 and Dracula has been reincarnated as a Japanese Schoolboy after having been sealed inside of a lunar eclipse? If none of us played that, it would have been just as idiotic sounding.
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In Reply To #46
Because of those reasons I wish the game was never made.
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ya AOS was horrible.
I mean really, it's like the devs don't know what the **** to do with the story. but maybe the 1999 game can make up for it.
still, I think the people making LoS are even more sexist than IGA. cause at least Alucard wasn't the only one fighting in the castle. Maria was whopping arse too.
and then there's Charlotte, and Shanoa, and Sypha, and...that's about it. oh yeah that blonde dressed in red,
was a Belnades I think.
LoS leaves lots of questions about Castlevania's future.
but for the time being, at least NITM kicks ass, well...it sstill suffers from lack of difficulty. but that's what CVIII is for, lol.
CVIII is the most balanced Castlevania that isn't sexist, cause everyone can be used from the start if you know the password. but the only sexist thing about it is that they didn't reveal Sypha's gender till the end, and I haven't tried it, but I think it's impossible to finish the game just using Sypha, but it might be possible, I haven't seen anyone solo it with her from stage 1-1 all the way through without switching, though. But CVIII is kind of sexist cause it gives the woman the 'ol mages role.
The developers probably watched Randy Savage Slim Jim commercials religiously while believing whips, knives and vampire powers are too manly for a woman. ::)
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That's the whole point of the CD rooms: as you walked through them in SotN, the game WAS loading so that you didn't have to wait for it when you reached the end of it. In NitM Saturn, you have to wait for the loading even after using your time to walk through the room.
I understand the point of the CD rooms. They simply weren't implemented properly. I was pointing out that the loading times aren't LONGER, because they don't take place as you walk through the CD room in the Saturn version.
And, yes, you do have to go into the menu to view the map each time: another messy delay, and yet another hidden load time is present when you attempt to go back to the game from it.
You only need to access the map from the menu because the Saturn controller doesn't have enough buttons. Had they left out the third hand, this wouldn't have been necessary. There's no additional loading that takes place with the map as it's accessed, though.
There's also extra slow-down when too many enemies are present, and some areas have staggered loading within themselves, like they have to load a new section.
The slowdown is due to the fact that the game was designed with PlayStation in mind, and PlayStation had to fake a lot of the 2D-looking content by using textured polygons, not sprites. PlayStation was the superior 3D console, whereas Saturn was the superior 2D console. NitM/SotN isn't a 2D game. Load the PlayStation version in an emulator and use texture filtering (but not sprite filtering), and you'll notice that the characters are still filtered.
The only reason that Saturn has such issues with the game in terms of slowdown and transparency is because the game ISN'T A 2D GAME.
NONE OF THIS was present in SotN.
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And Maria was a lot more powerful than Richter in Rondo, so it isn't too hard to believe that she's a complete powerhouse in NitM. She's always at least one step ahead of Alucard in the first castle. I'd say that it makes sense to have her be so ridiculously powerful, given how easily she gets around the castle in Alucard's game.
That's exactly one of the reasons that earlier I said that I would like to see a game about Maria that takes place just before SotN/NitM. According to my memory, Maria says that Richter had disappeared the year before, which implies that she was looking for him all that time and it's obvious that she got to the castle before Alucard.
That being said, if in NitM she is truly that powerful, then imagine how strong the enemies were when she got there. For all we know, she took out most of the tough enemies before Alucard even step foot on the castle grounds. I really think that it could be a great game, but it's unlikely to happen.
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In Reply To #48
Everytime you start talkin about sexism I think you know less and less about what it really is
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I know. I get the impression Saner feels that any game that doesn't, at least, show a woman in a dominant possition, kicking ass or as a main character, that's a sign of sexism. By that logic, the Super Mario series is super sexist, cause Mario always has to rescue the Princess. The only ones that would count as not being sexist would be Super Mario 2 and Super Princess Peach! LOL! ;D Damn you Miyamoto, and your sexist views!
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I understand the point of the CD rooms. They simply weren't implemented properly. I was pointing out that the loading times aren't LONGER, because they don't take place as you walk through the CD room in the Saturn version.
But they technically are, because first you have to walk through the room, and THEN it loads. So you do wait longer between areas compared to SotN.
You only need to access the map from the menu because the Saturn controller doesn't have enough buttons. Had they left out the third hand, this wouldn't have been necessary. There's no additional loading that takes place with the map as it's accessed, though.
I'm aware of the reason for it, but that doesn't change the fact that it sucks to have to do that EVERY single time you want to see the map -- which you need to do very frequently throughout the game, especially the first time playing it. What you seem to consider as a minor snafu was never an issue at all in the original game because the map could be brought up effortlessly with SELECT, and this as you could still see the current playscreen in the back, which really helps you ingrain the area to the block on the map.
I'm also not the only one that remembers there being a slightly annoying pause as you leave the map or menu to go BACK to the game.
The slowdown is due to the fact that the game was designed with PlayStation in mind...
And this has nothing to do with the fact that it's there regardless, and wasn't in SotN. All these inferiorities start to add up.
The new music is fine, aside from maybe that big band arrangement of one of the songs.
To me, none of it goes with the masterful soundtrack from the original game (except chaconne c mol, which is awesome). It's cool to have past CV remixes, but the styling just don't fit. Although they kinda go with the new silly sprites.
Maria doesn't jump as high as Richter or Alucard.
She can jump REALLY HIGH on that third jump. Alucard could jump higher with the gravity boots, but he doesn't start the game with those. Maria has too much power from the start.
And Maria was a lot more powerful than Richter in Rondo, so it isn't too hard to believe that she's a complete powerhouse in NitM. She's always at least one step ahead of Alucard in the first castle. I'd say that it makes sense to have her be so ridiculously powerful, given how easily she gets around the castle in Alucard's game.
I agree with almost all of this: I don't mind her being badass, and she always has been a very versatile fighter, but -- for ****'s sake! -- could you at least balance the enemies out to make it interesting. She may be far less dangerous in DXC, but at least you feel some kind of satisfaction of accomplishment after clearing a given room in it. In fact, her quest in DXC is pretty damn challenging.
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I know. I get the impression Saner feels that any game that doesn't, at least, show a woman in a dominant possition, kicking ass or as a main character, that's a sign of sexism. By that logic, the Super Mario series is super sexist, cause Mario always has to rescue the Princess. The only ones that would count as not being sexist would be Super Mario 2 and Super Princess Peach! LOL! ;D Damn you Miyamoto, and your sexist views!
THAT'S RIGHT.
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In Reply To #54
That's it. Thread over. Saner, chill the fuck out with your crackpot conspiracy theory ideals.