Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: DingusBelmondo on January 06, 2010, 12:55:56 AM
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So much for Castlevania! This game looks like a total ripoff of Super Metroid! Might as well call it Metroidvania hahahah! Plus, you don't even play as a Belmont! You play as Dracula's prissy son! Lame!!!! I hate things that are different! This new style of Castlevania is a complete betrayal of everything the series has ever stood for! Also, you level up like an RPG! So now it's copying Metroid AND Final Fantasy VII!?!?! The only format Castlevania has ever worked in is a linear platformer, and that's the only way it should be! I don't even want to play this when it comes out. GAAAAAAYYYYYYYY.
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**checks watch**
Either this is a joke, of you're mad late, yo! XD
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What's all this shouting? We'll have no shouting here!
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So much for Castlevania! This game looks like a total ripoff of Super Metroid! Might as well call it Metroidvania hahahah! Plus, you don't even play as a Belmont! You play as Dracula's prissy son! Lame!!!! I hate things that are different! This new style of Castlevania is a complete betrayal of everything the series has ever stood for! Also, you level up like an RPG! So now it's copying Metroid AND Final Fantasy VII!?!?! The only format Castlevania has ever worked in is a linear platformer, and that's the only way it should be! I don't even want to play this when it comes out. GAAAAAAYYYYYYYY.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get it. Anyone who doesn't salivate all over Lords of Shadow is a Castlevania reactionary; a whining, sniveling purist who refuses to give a bunch of newcomers that thus far have done nothing but wave away the franchises roots as quaint and outmoded full and unquestioning support.
Your hyperbole here is completely unfounded, and if dissenting opinions really bother you that much, you should probably stay off the internet for a while.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get it. Anyone who doesn't salivate all over Lords of Shadow is a Castlevania reactionary; a whining, sniveling purist who refuses to give a bunch of newcomers that thus far have done nothing but wave away the franchises roots as quaint and outmoded full and unquestioning support.
Your hyperbole here is completely unfounded, and if dissenting opinions really bother you that much, you should probably stay off the internet for a while.
Very nice dissection there.
I have to say that I have likened the current dissent about Lords of Shadow to the splitting of the fanbase when Symphony came out. After that game, you had your "oldschool" Castlevania fans who only ever liked the games up until Rondo and Bloodlines, and the "newschool" Castlevania fans who came in during Symphony's reign and have retroactively played older games but praise SotN as the high-point. Lords of Shadow could easily create a new age/level for the fanbase as well.
But lets face it.....there will always be dissent in the fandom. We're all very opinionated about our game series. At least we can agree on that much.
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Are you insane!? SotN is one of the most loved CV games. Ok, you may like the linear type, but there is nothing wrong with the metroidvania style. You don't have to like every format, but please to bash and wine about what you don't like. It's childish. If you don't like a particular type of CV, then don't play it. If you have nothing good to say about something, don't keep it to yourself unless someone asks for your opinion.
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Obviously this is a joke.
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Obviously this is a joke.
If it is, I'm not laughing.
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If it is, I'm not laughing.
Hey not everyone can be george carlin.
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Hey not everyone can be george carlin.
Yeah. Somebody would fuck it up.
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Yeah. Somebody would fuck it up.
Most def.
Though I'm sure there was some sort of point to this.
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To be more Castlevania, I suggest that MercurySteam steal assets from Curse of Darkness and maybe even Castlevania 64 if they're really trying to make this a Castlevania. It's kinda become Castlevania's defining feature to reuse stuff, right? Look at Castlevania: The Adventure Rebirth. It harkens to the older titles, and utilizes the reuse business quite nicely.
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Ok ok, so maybe it was an awfully stupid reason to make a topic, and maybe there is no subtlety (yes... it's a joke...for the few who are confused) to my poor excuse for satire. But it really wasn't directed at any one person, so there is no need to get testy. This is NOT meant to seem like I'm telling you to salivate over LoS. But if we had this forum before Symphony came out, there is no DOUBT we would get a post like that. All I'm saying is that we may want to hold our tongues when it comes to assumptions about a game that is not out, and very different.
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Ok ok, so maybe it was an awfully stupid reason to make a topic, and maybe there is no subtlety (yes... it's a joke...for the few who are confused) to my poor excuse for satire. But it really wasn't directed at any one person, so there is no need to get testy. This is NOT meant to seem like I'm telling you to salivate over LoS. But if we had this forum before Symphony came out, there is no DOUBT we would get a post like that. All I'm saying is that we may want to hold our tongues when it comes to assumptions about a game that is not out, and very different.
Kinda figured that was your motive and it is true.
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This topic has a point.
And when you think about it, Lords of Shadow is actually closer to the series roots than Symphony of the Night ever was.
My concern about LoS isn't so much the lack of certain CV elements, or how it reboots the timeline.. I'm more concerned that the game will be the usual "Eliminate all enemies in room in order to open the door to the next room where you eliminate all enemies in order to open the...". Though early screenshots suggest that there will be some PoP style platforming and wallclimbing and stuff, which is good.
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Ok ok, so maybe it was an awfully stupid reason to make a topic, and maybe there is no subtlety (yes... it's a joke...for the few who are confused) to my poor excuse for satire. But it really wasn't directed at any one person, so there is no need to get testy. This is NOT meant to seem like I'm telling you to salivate over LoS. But if we had this forum before Symphony came out, there is no DOUBT we would get a post like that. All I'm saying is that we may want to hold our tongues when it comes to assumptions about a game that is not out, and very different.
Quoted for truth. You guys already embraced a game that tossed classic CV out the window in favor of Anne Rice melodrama, pretty-boy heroes, and a game style that was highly reminiscent (read: exactly the same) as Metroid. Not only that, but SotN not only tossed aside the Belmonts, but made the only Belmont present into a villain, AND THEN, guaranteed that no Belmont would wield the whip until this 1999 battle that, let's face it, we'll probably never see in a game. SotN, as great a game as it was, screwed over CV before LoS could have ever dreamed of doing it.
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You know, in part, I actually don't disagree with the sentiment, as pettily snide as it was presented, of the original post. Yes, if SotN were presented today, it would face similar backlash. And, had the internet been used to discuss such things back then, maybe things would have looked the same as far as reaction in the fan community goes.
But whatever reservations people had going into Symphony were won over by its exceptional gameplay. It was just such a great game that it overrode people's preconceptions and expectations. Can Lords of Shadow do that? I damn well hope so, and absolutely recognize it's possible. We'll have to wait and see. And there's something to be said for withholding judgment until we actually get to play it. Contrary to some people's interpretations of forthcoming criticism, no one is saying that they know its going to disappoint. But none of us has played it yet, and so all we have to go on is the meager scraps Mercurysteam has given us. . .and so far those scraps have generated a lot of unease.
Opinions vary. Take the Castlevania movie on again/off again project. Here on this very site there were people that actually thought Andersen's attachment was a good idea. From my point of view, how anyone could see any of his previous movies and think it would be a good idea for him to direct anything grander than a Frosted Flakes commercial is beyond me. But not everyone shares my point of view. Some people legitimately think the Mortal Kombat and Resident Evil movies were actually good films. I disagree.
One additional note that bears mentioning is that when Iga was attached and set out to shake things up a bit, he didn't come out telling people to "forget what you know about Castlevania", he didn't jettison candles, hearts and other staples of the series. In fact, all he really did was expand upon the pre-existing scheme. He/they added non-linearity, backtracking, jettisoned time limits, allowed the player to level up and collect armor/weapons/relics (RPG elements which Simon's Quest had also lightly utilized.) Essentially, they took elements from the previous entries, Simon's Quest, Rondo of Blood, and the more 'classic' games and kicked it up a notch. Symphony was never sold as a reinvention or a reboot of the series, Lords of Shadow is, and the approach has struck me as arrogant and condascending.
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You know, in part, I actually don't disagree with the sentiment, as pettily snide as it was presented, of the original post. Yes, if SotN were presented today, it would face similar backlash. And, had the internet been used to discuss such things back then, maybe things would have looked the same as far as reaction in the fan community goes.
But whatever reservations people had going into Symphony were won over by its exceptional gameplay. It was just such a great game that it overrode people's preconceptions and expectations. Can Lords of Shadow do that? I damn well hope so, and absolutely recognize it's possible. We'll have to wait and see. And there's something to be said for withholding judgment until we actually get to play it. Contrary to some people's interpretations of forthcoming criticism, no one is saying that they know its going to disappoint. But none of us has played it yet, and so all we have to go on is the meager scraps Mercurysteam has given us. . .and so far those scraps have generated a lot of unease.
Opinions vary. Take the Castlevania movie on again/off again project. Here on this very site there were people that actually thought Andersen's attachment was a good idea. From my point of view, how anyone could see any of his previous movies and think it would be a good idea for him to direct anything grander than a Frosted Flakes commercial is beyond me. But not everyone shares my point of view. Some people legitimately think the Mortal Kombat and Resident Evil movies were actually good films. I disagree.
One additional note that bears mentioning is that when Iga was attached and set out to shake things up a bit, he didn't come out telling people to "forget what you know about Castlevania", he didn't jettison candles, hearts and other staples of the series. In fact, all he really did was expand upon the pre-existing scheme. He/they added non-linearity, backtracking, jettisoned time limits, allowed the player to level up and collect armor/weapons/relics (RPG elements which Simon's Quest had also lightly utilized.) Essentially, they took elements from the previous entries, Simon's Quest, Rondo of Blood, and the more 'classic' games and kicked it up a notch. Symphony was never sold as a reinvention or a reboot of the series, Lords of Shadow is, and the approach has struck me as arrogant and condascending.
I agree with a lot of what you said but the last point is wrong imo. Sotn had more CHANGES while they may be additions there were so many changes made to it that it felt like a totally different game. It didn't feel like the castlevania game we knew but it was a damn good game so people accepted it.
This new game lords of shadows if anything is taking the series back to its roots.. Going for a more traditional stage base adventure with whips, a belmont and the likes. Whats different so far? No candles and its a new story... Only two things that we know of. Two very minor things imo..
Candles can be seen as a let down because its a staple but having a new storyline? what does it matter it still is a belmont The very same family that started the series in the beginning. I'm just not seeing the complaints here.. Not at all.
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Question;
Were there candles to whip in Simon's Quest? I honestly can't remember... I'm actually leaning towards no. I may be wrong though.
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Question;
Were there candles to whip in Simon's Quest? I honestly can't remember... I'm actually leaning towards no. I may be wrong though.
I believe you are correct. Now you just knocked out another thing people shouldn't complain about. Lol
Thank you!
You get hearts by killing creatures in that game I do believe.
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Nice first post, made me laugh a lot and reminded me some spanish Cv forum :D Good irony.
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Yeah, nobody ever complains about Simon's Quest NOT having any candles to whip, but when LoS is doing the exact same thing people go bonkers. lol.
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This was a waste of a topic.
And just because this topic was started Lords of Shadow will probably end up being awful!
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This was a waste of a topic.
And just because this topic was started Lords of Shadow will probably end up being awful!
I've doomed us all! And we're running out of internets!!!!!
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So much for Castlevania! This game looks like a total ripoff of Super Metroid! Might as well call it Metroidvania hahahah! Plus, you don't even play as a Belmont! You play as Dracula's prissy son! Lame!!!! I hate things that are different! This new style of Castlevania is a complete betrayal of everything the series has ever stood for! Also, you level up like an RPG! So now it's copying Metroid AND Final Fantasy VII!?!?! The only format Castlevania has ever worked in is a linear platformer, and that's the only way it should be! I don't even want to play this when it comes out. GAAAAAAYYYYYYYY.
You could make similar rants against CV64, Lament of Innocence, Judgment, and the Arcade House of the Dead style CV, only you'd be fairly justified in those rants. Yup, LoS could turn out to be awesome. It could also turn out to be suck. The fact that one past series offshoot turned out well isn't really relevant unless you admit that four other offshoots were failures. (Though I actually kinda like LoI.)
Anyway, I do see your point, and I remain optimistic about LoS.
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Holy shyte its PFG!! You're still around??
I'd forgotten about the non-candle whipping in Simon's Quest. However I also remember Simon's Quest getting alot of flack otherwise....
No Candle Whipping = Game Automatically will Fail?
(Please note I'm obviously joking before the pitchforks come out....though it is true that alot of people hated on SQ)
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I'd forgotten about the non-candle whipping in Simon's Quest. However I also remember Simon's Quest getting alot of flack otherwise....
For me, Simon's Quest was always the weakest of the original trio, and it hasn't aged very well at all. However, it is the game with the best atmosphere and soundtrack IMO, and the potential to remake it is enormous. It's a very interesting game on paper. The exclusion of candles to whip in SQ was no problem for me - it's the overall game design that bothers me.
Candles or no candles - LoS can go either way. I still have faith cause I like what I've seen, but I need more screenshots damnit ???
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For me, Simon's Quest was always the weakest of the original trio, and it hasn't aged very well at all. However, it is the game with the best atmosphere and soundtrack IMO, and the potential to remake it is enormous. It's a very interesting game on paper. The exclusion of candles to whip in SQ was no problem for me - it's the overall game design that bothers me.
Candles or no candles - LoS can go either way. I still have faith cause I like what I've seen, but I need more screenshots damnit ???
I agree.
And yes we do need more screenshots and info.
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SotN looked amazing back then and still looks sweet :)
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What a retrospective thread.
I think we'll all walk away from this as better people.
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I actually think that Simon's Quest was the best out of the original three, because of the atmosphere and music. It was the only game that gave me a feeling that I was doomed and it was sort of a long shot that I would be cured of that terrible curse! Not that it was extremely hard or anything.. (I hated that the only thing death did was take away your hearts and exp at game over. You should have been taken back to town or something.)
Although Dracula's Curse had sweet music as well. Ah hell I don't know.
Oh yeah.. I remember playing SOTN when it came out, and it still felt very much like castlevania to me... Is there anyone here who bought it and said "this doesn't feel like castlevania..."? Just curious....
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Oh yeah.. I remember playing SOTN when it came out, and it still felt very much like castlevania to me... Is there anyone here who bought it and said "this doesn't feel like castlevania..."? Just curious....
It definitely felt different. What helped the crossover, for me, was the sprite re-usage from Dracula X, especially playing as Richter right off the bat. Once I got to Alucard, though, I started going "they really changed quite a bit, didn't they?" My character had a sword and a cape instead of a whip instead of a tunic and whip. The architecture was much more indoors, and much more regally Gothic, as opposed to the older, decaying medieval castles from the other games with their graveyards and brick walls. The areas that were dark were much darker, and the areas that were light were much lighter, as opposed to the overall muted feel of the previous games. The music playing wasn't Opposing Bloodlines and seemed like something you'd find in a ballroom (Alchemy Lab to be specific. Dance of Pales was also a new type of song choice for the series, going with the whole waltzy feel), the first level was inside during a thunderstorm with the lights off instead of outside in a village on fire, etc.
While it doesn't seem like it in retrospect, if you go back and compare Symphony of the Night to an older game (Dracula X in my case, being the game I played right before it) there are quite a few differences we gloss right over. I mean, the later levels in the Classicvania's were castle rooms, while in the Metroidvanias, we get these crazy alternate dimension stuff. Symphony of the Night really made the game focus on the Demon Castle. The castle seemed like a living thing. It had really weird, sometimes organic levels, the whole adventure taking place inside of it. This is as opposed to taking place before the castle, in the castle, around the castle grounds, and then back to the top of the castle, where the castle was just this dilapidated, monster infested castle. I mean compare the levels in CV IV and Dracula X to the levels in Symphony of the Night. If we take out the Nocturne in the Moonlight exclusives, SotN takes place ENTIRELY in indoor levels. CV IV and Dracula X had villages, farms, jungle like areas with rivers, etc.
That's not to say there aren't similarities. Like I sad, you've got the reused sprites, mainstay characters like Death, and anachronistic levels like clocktower. There's still Dracula, still Belmonts, still little things like candles and hearts (which were completely useless in SotN IMO. I never needed to use sub-weapons. That has nothing to do with what I'm talking about though), and still a castle. I mean, when it comes down to it, it was still Castlevania.
Didn't mean for the post to get this long, but hey, I could have actually talked about gameplay, which is like *woosh* whole 'nother 3 paragraphs.
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Oh yeah.. I remember playing SOTN when it came out, and it still felt very much like castlevania to me... Is there anyone here who bought it and said "this doesn't feel like castlevania..."? Just curious....
It also felt Castlevania to me too. There were no complaints from me at the time. Nocturne in the Moonlight was looking sweet and the European version was eagerly anticipated. Swords instead of whips (mostly), the RPG elements, and the music stuck in my mind as being different, but not in a bad way. It was still a trek around a castle to dispatch the creatures of the night. It felt masterful and grandiose, and it was longer than what had come before. More Castlevania time = bonus.
But by the fifth iteration of the same thing it becomes an exercise of ritual and habit rather than being an experience with any real immersion, and the level design never really went anywhere. That begin said, I do not think Symphony has aged well at all, but I think that's credit to some of the things IGA added to later instalments, particularly Aria of Sorrow and it's Soul System which is to my mind far and above the best in-game system Castlevania has seen.
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I am an old schooler and I just have a real strong affinity for the NES games, SCVIV (being the best overall experience) and Chronicles. I thought SOTN was a very good game and playing as Alucard was one of the most enriching experiences as a player. If the two styles were incorporated you could have an interesting game. My gripe with SOTN's style is the lack of pit death and the linear style Castlevanias suffer from too many points of no return. Exploration can sometimes be redundant and tedious but I can live with that as long as there is something worth backtracking for and its kept in check.
Now ya see Zelda II, Battle of Olympus and Rygar all for the NES had the exploration and the instant pit death hazards and they were all classic games. Had Simon's Quest been done that way but no sense beating a dead horse. SOTN could have been done a little bit better graphically as far as the castle goes. It was just bland. The story was excellent and the remake had better voices no doubt.
One can only hope that Lords of Shadow will do justice to the series. A lack of candle whipping is something I do not like.
Never the less I can not wait to play it.