Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: darkwzrd4 on January 15, 2010, 09:12:54 AM
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We all know that ever since SotN, Death has been more than just another boss. In these games, he actually spoke to the characters and interacted with them more than once before you fought him. I'm also pretty sure that we were all disappointed that he didn't have a larger role in AoS and DoS. So, should he have had a larger role and if so, what do think it should have been?
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Considering his importance in building Mathia's ascent into Dracula, his being mute really made no sense in AoS and DoS. Plus, there's how DoS isn't even set in Castlevania but Celia's castle.
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I think Death should've had a bigger, more important role since he was Dracula's right-hand corps. In fact it should've been Death himself that would try to make Some into the dark lord once more.
-X
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Yeah I do think death shouldve had a bigger role. I mean he had a bigger role in Curse of Darkness than he did in either sorrow game and in portrait of ruin when he was out to get Brauner. I mean he made such a big deal about being Dracula's right hand man and all..
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Death had the most potential to be involved in the Sorrow games, and yet he had the exact opposite; NO ROLE WHAT SO EVER.
That really pissed me off.
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I think there's universal agreement IGA dropped the ball on this particular issue. Just about the only thing wrong with Aria in my opinion. I think a more interesting discussion should be "what role should Death have played?" X has already suggested Death should have been an instigator *as opposed to Celia* but I always had the feeling Death may have allied himself with Dracula for his own nefarious purposes.
It really boils down to is the nature of their relationship... Is Death enslaved by Dracula? *as speculated by many on this forum* and if so, does he rebelliously plot to overthrow his master? Or perhaps Death is a docile slave? Licking the master's boots and appreciating the crumbs that fall from the Dark Lord's table? I don't know if I buy into Death being enslaved. Leon clearly acknowledges the Reaper's "divine" power --which doesn't reconcile well with Death calling Dracula his "master". Dracula opposes the divine establishment and seeks to take all its thrones for himself. There are also inconsistencies throughout the series about Death being tied to Dracula's resurrections. And lets not forget the conundrum of Death "dying" at the hands of mortals --and mysteriously resurrecting without Dracula alive to assist him. How does Death restore himself? But I digress...
I think Death is a willing partner --a submissive ally in Dracula's struggle to enslave demons and men for his war against God. I believe Death plots to betray Dracula, once God has been "vanquished".... So what is Soma Cruz to Death? Nothing --but a depressing reminder of Dracula's many failures --and by his extension HIS many failures...
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I think a little bit different. Isn't just strange that death betrayed his old master that easily? (Walter) If Death really serves and defends who has the ebony stone, why did he let Mathias be the master and why he didn't defend Walter?
I think that Walter is not that dead, perhaps his soul is in the crimson stone or whatever, and Death is using Dracula to give more power to walter, and someday in the sorrow saga he will return very very powerfuol and that's why Death fights soma, because he can't let Dracula be the lord of Darkness again.
8)
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I think a little bit different. Isn't just strange that death betrayed his old master that easily? (Walter) If Death really serves and defends who has the ebony stone, why did he let Mathias be the master and why he didn't defend Walter?
I think that Walter is not that dead, perhaps his soul is in the crimson stone or whatever, and Death is using Dracula to give more power to walter, and someday in the sorrow saga he will return very very powerfuol and that's why Death fights soma, because he can't let Dracula be the lord of Darkness again.
8)
I think that you are a little misinformed. Death is only loyal to the person who has the Crimson Stone. As for loyalty to Walter, like Mathias, he was just using him.
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I believe Death wasn't even affiliated with Walter to begin with.
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I kinda think that Death might have a hidden agenda and that he's only playing the good servant until the time is right. The Japanese like that sort of stuff. And because Death is Death he can revive his immortal self without any aid as he is perhaps the epitome of the undying. I'd even go as far as to say that Death himself is nothing more then a Lich fiend and liches have are at the top of the undead hierarchy. Vampires are somewhere below them. Dracula is perhaps and entity all on his own which is why, for now Death favors him rather then despising and using him like he did with Walter.
-X
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I kinda think that Death might have a hidden agenda and that he's only playing the good servant until the time is right. The Japanese like that sort of stuff. And because Death is Death he can revive his immortal self without any aid as he is perhaps the epitome of the undying. I'd even go as far as to say that Death himself is nothing more then a Lich fiend and liches have are at the top of the undead hierarchy. Vampires are somewhere below them. Dracula is perhaps and entity all on his own which is why, for now Death favors him rather then despising and using him like he did with Walter.
-X
Thats an excellent theory! Dracula is more then just a vampire he is basically the Lord of all things Evil but at the time he wasn't course he had the Crimson Stone which Death must be loyal to him since he wields it. Also I read something about Lichs, not sure if it is true, they tend to use alternate names once the become a lich usually because they start off as power sorcerers to begin with. Anyway I heard that they must also obey anyone who manages to learn their real name. I can't remember where I read it but I could be wrong. Anyhow perhaps Mathias being a wise alchemist figured it out?
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I don't think that Death is a lich. If I remember correctly, Leon states that Death has divine powers. From what I understand, he is what the Japanese call a shinigami (god of death), or as western society calls an angel of death. I don't think that Death can ever truly be killed.
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Death will never die cause he's already dead, yes I agree with you there. As for the Lich part, it was just an assumption concidering that both the Grim Reaper and the Lich look virtually identical. I can only assume that the liches themselves were based of the grim reaper motif as was the grim reaper being based off the ferryman who guides the departed across the river Styx. They also looked the same.
Oooh! Another history lesson from professor X. I wonder if it's taboo to teach without a Ph.D in the forums... :-X
-X
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I believe Death wasn't even affiliated with Walter to begin with.
Lament of innocence was so stupid for one single reason.
I was hoping for the ORIGINAL dracula instead we get some random vampire and dracula is born through him and mathias? Wtf?
It would of been better had there been NO dracula and death was given rise to the first dracula or something of the sort through mathias who was against god.
Ends random rant.
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I once wrote a design document for a homebrew CV game I never made.
The basic plot was that at the final battle with Drac, Death would be revealed to be plotting his own resurrection as a dark god.
It was, coincidentally, set in 1999. My characters were decidedly more western. There were going to be 3 playable characters. The first was a Morris/Belmont descendant who was a former priest that lost his faith after discovering his connection to the Belmont line. His little sister was the second player. She was a martial artist chick kinda modeled after Buffy. The third character was Alucard freshly risen from his slumber in the same, now moldy, garb he wore back in the time of SotN.
At any rate, during the course of the game Death was secretly consuming all the souls of the newly dead for a sacrifice ritual that would grant him rebirth as a god. He would secretly lead the heroes to Dracula so that they could get him out of the way at the right moment.
I had it set up similarly to Bloodlines where the game would take place in various locations around the world.
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I believe Death wasn't even affiliated with Walter to begin with.
Didn´t Walter say that Death had betrayed him? They must have been in league to some extend. I always thought Walter and his Ebony Stone just served as some sort of place holder until someone shows up with the Crimson Stone. Maybe Death had a partnership with Walter, just because he´s the strongest beeing around, but when Mathias found/used the Crimson Stone, he had no other choice but to take orders from him....
OR Death knew what would happen in the future.... that Mathias/Dracula would rage war on humanity (perhabs he orchestrated everything from the beginning?).
What would bring Death more souls? Some lazy Vampire that lures only one, two Hunters per Month into his castle? Or a Vampire that kills thousands of innocent beeings? Think about it.
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I believe that Death was loyal to the owner of the Crimson Stone from the moment it was created. I also believe that Mathias and Death were working together from the beginning to manipulate Walter and the others. Death probably acted like he was loyal to Walter so that he could keep an eye on him in order to be near by to collect his soul when he is killed by Leon. As Mathias said after he shows up: "not just you. Sara, Walter, and Rinaldo. I used all of you."
Oh and by the way, for those of you who think that Death wants to become a god, he already is one. He is the "God of Death". And while he is a god, for some reason he as sworn his loyalty to whoever possess the Crimson Stone.
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Yeah, upon defeat Walter exclaims to Death, "you betrayed me!"
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He never said "You betrayed me!" to Death. Walter said that to MATHIAS. Mathias made the pact with Walter, telling him of a warrior who was one of the best of all the land(Leon), and Walter wanted a fitting challenge. Mathias told Walter of Sara, and how to provoke Leon. But, Mathias knew that Leon would find a means DESTORY Walter, and on the point of death, Mathias would claim Walter's soul for himself, becoming the new vampire lord. Death was a servent to the one who held the Crimson Stone, hence was Mathias's servent. But, Death couldn't claim Walter's soul for Mathias UNTIL he was weakened to the point near death(because he was said to be an extremely powerful vampire).
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Yes, you're right. Been a long time since I played Lament, lol
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he said that to Mathias? i always thought Death was "pretending" to follow the one who possessed the Ebony Stone, but in reality was following the one that possessed the Crimson Stone. I'll have to re-evaluate that thought. gosh, i wish we could get the Lament of Innocence cell phone manga in English.
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It was Mathias. Walter references how he met with a knight who told him about Leon. He says something like, "Just as the knight had said.". He didn't mean Leon, and their's no other knights present to have warned him about Leon either. Mathias was around, and he hinted to Walter about Leon. It was obvious that he WAS following you(you see his invisible form after the battle with Joachim). Mathias used both Leon AND Walter to attain his goal. That's why he BETRAYED Walter. Though, to be fair, he also betrayed Leon too. Prior to that, it's never alluded to that Death serves Walter. The only info we are give about Death in LoI is that he serves the one who holds the Crimson Stone, and Walter, frankly, NEVER had the Crimson Stone to begin with.
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Thanks Reinhardt, that´s what I tried to say. ^^
Both, the Ebony and Crimson went missing according to Rinaldo. While the Crimson Stone was still missing, Death followed the one who had the lesser Ebony Stone until Mathias showed up.
@DragonSlayr81
Why should Walter said this to Mathias? He wasn´t even there until Death took the Vampire´s soul.
@ 2:35
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0T_NAoEAn_k&feature=related