Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: Thomas Belmont on March 07, 2010, 11:11:56 PM
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Why do you think they never made another game after Super Castlevania 4 that utilized the whip swinging mechanic, especially Rondo? I know Bloodlines and Lament of Innocence used it, but they were for minor situations.
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Because whip swinging(and 8 directional whiping) is pointless. It would serve no use in Castlevania or any Metriodvania type games. Whats so good about Super Castlevania 4 anyways?
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I think it's because they wanted to make multi-directional whip swinging exclusive to the game (just like soul stealing is exclusive to sorrow, spell fusion is exclusive to harmony, etc.)
Each game has it's own unique gameplay aspect. But another game hopefully 2D should implement it again one day.
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Whats so good about Super Castlevania 4 anyways?
Have you ever played it? The platforming, the difficulty, etc. it's an extremely well-executed game that received good reviews even till this day. The only thing that it's lacking is story (which is irrelevant since it's a remake/homage to CV1).
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Because whip swinging(and 8 directional whiping) is pointless. It would serve no use in Castlevania or any Metriodvania type games. Whats so good about Super Castlevania 4 anyways?
Whiping in 8 directions isn't pointless. It's actually one of the best damned gimics they've ever exicuted in the CV series, if only brought out in just that game. And as for the whip-swing, it's also very purposeful. The levels in CV4 are spacificly designed to maximise the use of the whip-swing, especially the clocktower stage, christ-all-mighty! :o Trust me, in CV4 you NEED the whip-swing, hands down!
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Because whip swinging(and 8 directional whiping) is pointless. It would serve no use in Castlevania or any Metriodvania type games. Whats so good about Super Castlevania 4 anyways?
I think your post was sarcastic, but I'm not really sure. I've always thought whip swinging would be a fantastic ability in a MetroidVania. It just seems obvious: you come to a ledge with a hook that would propel you to the next unreachable ledge, but you can't use it until you get the ability to swing from hooks...
The same for 8-way whipping. There could be switches over your head or below the floor that you can't hit until you find the 8-way whipping ability. PoR had a multi-direction whip upgrade if I recall correctly, but they didn't use it to unlock any new areas or anything.
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I think it's because they wanted to make multi-directional whip swinging exclusive to the game (just like soul stealing is exclusive to sorrow, spell fusion is exclusive to harmony, etc.)
Each game has it's own unique gameplay aspect. But another game hopefully 2D should implement it again one day.
i hope that too..!
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PoR did have a whip upgrade but it only allowed you to whip down at an angle. It didn't allow for anything else unfortunetly :'(
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Funny how no one mentioned how Metroid 3, the source of the METROIDvania style, actually has whip swinging.
Oh how we easily forget about the grapple beam!
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Because whip swinging(and 8 directional whiping) is pointless. It would serve no use in Castlevania or any Metriodvania type games. Whats so good about Super Castlevania 4 anyways?
Go play it again. Plenty of levels integrate multi directional whipping into its design. The game is also arguably the most atmospheric in the series, thats why its widely seen as the best of the classics. The whip swinging and multi directional whipping also gave the player a feeling of control that no other CV replicated.
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Because whip swinging(and 8 directional whiping) is pointless. It would serve no use in Castlevania or any Metriodvania type games. Whats so good about Super Castlevania 4 anyways?
DIE MONSTER YOU DONT BELONG ON THIS FORUM
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I believe that 2nd post was either a sarcastic post or a troll flamebait remark. Since this is the person's third post, I give it the benefit of the doubt, for now.
Also, there was WhipSwinging in Castlevania: Bloodlines. Incredibly underused, but it did exist...
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That's true. Like CV4 you can whip-swing but unlike CV4, you could whip-swing from any Ceiling. But like Jorge said it's incredably underused.
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Have you ever played it? The platforming, the difficulty, etc. it's an extremely well-executed game that received good reviews even till this day. The only thing that it's lacking is story (which is irrelevant since it's a remake/homage to CV1).
Yes I have (and not to log ago.) I guess my biggest problem is the jumping. I had more problems with it than in any of the 8-bit games. If you hold down the jump button you jump the same height that you would if you just would have tapped it, the only different is that Simon would stop moving after he lands even if you are pushing forward. I would rather play Rondo or Bloodlines. I could care less about the story in a game ever since I played Vagrant Stoy.
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Yeah, but why would you WANT to hold the whip button while jumping?
The jumping in SCV4 is vastly superior to the NES games, plus you can jump onto, and off of stairs.
Not to mention that you don't have to press down to go onto stairs that are on the edge of a platform.
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Yeah button-sensitive jumping is more of a Mario thing. Not even modern God of War-like adventure games use that feature (they're more into double-jumps).
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I wish more games used variable jumping. Its a lost form. I dont remember a single 3d game Ive ever played that had it
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You mean besides Mario, right? 'cuz Mario has had variable jumping in 3D since the Super Mario 64.
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Because whip swinging(and 8 directional whiping) is pointless. It would serve no use in Castlevania or any Metriodvania type games. Whats so good about Super Castlevania 4 anyways?
to continue with what UZU stated....
Your opinion is as empty as your soul.
Whip swinging is a must and should be brought back for the 2-D games, it just makes sense.
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Yeah, but why would you WANT to hold the whip button while jumping?
The jumping in SCV4 is vastly superior to the NES games, plus you can jump onto, and off of stairs.
Not to mention that you don't have to press down to go onto stairs that are on the edge of a platform.
Have you ever noticed that Simon still falls like 1000 bricks?
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Yeah, but why would you WANT to hold the whip button while jumping?
It's just that in most platformers like Mario or the later Castlevanias holding jump would make you jump higher. While we're on the topic of platforming, Some of the jumps are way to large and getting as close to the edge as possible to make those jumps is a real flow breaker (and in a game with a timer, it souldn't be.)
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It's possible for whip swinging to work in Castlevania. SCV4 has the basic mechanics right but doesn’t do much with it. You’d think they would use it to for some advance or more difficult plat forming, but it’s all pretty simple. Instead They use to keep you still while they show off the graphics. In stage 4 you have to hold of to the whip while the room rotates leaving you doing nothing.
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If you've played the game up to the clocktower stage then you'd know that the gamr does a lot with the whip-swing. CV4 does far more with the whip-swing then bloodlines does. In fact CV4 is the ONLY game that does really anything at all with the whip-swing (besides bloodlines whivh uses very little of the whip-swing).
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real flow breaker
See, that's key for me.
I want to be pausing, thinking about jumps, consequences for actions taken. There’s a sense of reward there for a series of hard jumps navigated, for pondering just when to jump and swing and land safely. There’s nothing—absolutely nothing to me—in breezing down a Portrait of Ruin corridor for the millionth time and auto-jump, auto-dispatch another series of placid enemies in box-like rooms, which is effectively the most action the game has to offer.
When you've got a set jump, like in Castlevania IV, the player has to better plan how they attack or negotiate the stage or environment. If you jump toward a chasm and you fall in, hey, you should have better thought about where you were jumping. Part of the charm with old-school Castlevania is that with the jumps, pits and traps, you get a feel for being the hero and a truer sense of immersion in the game (edit: should say whip swinging really added a lot of value in that dept. too).
It isn’t perfect in the controls dept though, don’t get me wrong.
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^^^^Agreed
Imo, there is NO excuse not to put multi-direction whip-swinging into modern CV games. It was such an innovative idea and really set SCVIV apart from any other action game at the time.
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I like the middle ground; Chronicles. You get the down directions, and the subweapon with up. Being able to whip up just felt a little cheap for enemies on platforms above you.
It's possible, I suppose, to reduce the cheapness of it by changing the level design, but making platforms bulkier with that screen size may not have worked out too well. It's kinda a shame it was never revisited fully.
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I suppose I should also chime in that whip-swinging in Castlevania IV, coupled with a separate button for the SubWeapon, allowed you to attack with the subweapon while still swinging, by using Simon's other hand.
A lot of people don't know that. It means he's so badass that while he's swinging with his whip Indiana-Jones style, he can also be chucking CrossBoomerangs.
I will agree that the versatility of the whip in CV4 made SubWeapon use play a more minor role. Why bother getting the axe (actually the axe does hit for more damage than the whip but it's slower unless you have a TripleThreat powerup).
I remember with flying enemies just diagonal-up-spamming the whip to kick their butt. It did make me feel badass though.
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SotN had it...HoD had it...LoI had it...CotM had it...many had it...although it was never a great move anyway...and i'm pretty sure other games had it too...
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Another of Super CastleVania's charms was being able to attack in more than two ways with your primary weapon; Simon was six times more lethal then, and nearly 20 years later, it was only X68's Simon and Bloodlines' Eric Lecarde who was able to come as close.
I don't know about you guys, but I whip the shit out of that game in every direction!
As for Supah Metroid, I don't recall passively attacking crap with the Grapple Beam, but I do recall one instance in which it came in pretty handy!
Poor Draygon...
:]
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I use that technique all every single play to cut down on my time, he, he, he... ;D Unless I'm playing with a gamegenie then I just use the hyperbeam. But I definitly want to play another CV game that makes full use of the whip as our beloved SCV4
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Here's a handful of situations where accurate whip-swinging is pretty neat:
- In the Greece-like stage, a single bone dragon drops big hearts into oblivion, unless you use whip-swinging before killing him to reach a platform below the dragon and whipping him from there.
- The Treasury stage is full of areas only reachable by whip-swinging, for instance, the part where you need to do 3 perfect swings to get a Holy Cross and lots of goodness.
- The room with the giant chandeliers, already awesome, also has whip-swinging bonanza.
- The spinning room (more Mode 7 eye-candy than anything else) where you are attacked by Medusa Heads (this is actually very cool!).
- The Clock Tower is a house of whip-swinging madness, with moving points for hooking and enemies attacking relentlessly.
- The Tower where you are chased by a giant cog has its share of whip-swinging dementia, with a Metroid countdown flavor.
My only complaint about SCIV in this regard, is that they designed no boss battle with the whip-swinging mechanic in mind. For instance, OoE has DAMNED GOOD fights involving the Magnes glyph, while using it for other purposes is kind of meh.
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CV bloodlines had Jon Morris attack while he swung using the whip. In fact it was deliberate for the first boss. There is a single plateform that you can latch onto and swing right into and through the mecha knight. But I think that a boss/whip-swing challange could do wonders for CV.
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