Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => Fan Stuff => Topic started by: Inccubus on March 13, 2010, 03:17:23 AM
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I had an idea the other day that i might like to do, but first I'd like to see if there's any interest in it.
It was one of my dreams years ago to make my own CV games and, as it turns out, I'm pretty good at programming now.
Given the popularity, as of late, of retro gaming I was thinking of taking the levels from CV1 (nes), Vampire Killer (msx), Haunted Castle, SCV4, & CV Chronicles and adapt them into the ultimate 8-bit demake. I'm even already working on an 8-bit demake of "Megaman Powered Up" at the moment called "Megaman Powered Down". Now, would you guys be interested in playing such a thing?
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Sounds good to me! ;D In my opinion playing a fan game is more saticfying then then what we've been getting as of late. :P
In terms of Ideas for your proposed game, I would signal out each and every level from all the games you've mentioned that are different and combind them into the one game you plan to make. This would make it the ultamate CV experience!
-X
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That might be cool to see, Incubus! :D
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Sure, I'd try it. Especially if the Hero could whip in eight directions. ;]
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If it's not half assed, definitely. If it is....... eh, it depends.
Be awesome to see either way though.
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Alright. I'll start working on it and see where it goes. ^_^
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I'm even already working on an 8-bit demake of "Megaman Powered Up" at the moment called "Megaman Powered Down".
Capcom beat you to it. Its called Megaman 1.
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I think his remake is taking the 2.5D game and turn it into a classic 16-bit game. Kinda like Mega man: The wily Wars except functioning like the old 8-bit NES mega man. I'd like to check it out.
-X
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Actually, it is an 8-bit style game. It'll have most of the features of the PSP version and some stuff inspired by the newest Wii installments.
This'll be vastly superior to the PSP & NES versions.
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No, please don't take any inspiration from the Rebirth! *cringe* Rondo's good though... go for that style.
Oh, and if your interested in using my new Richter sprite sheet, feel free to ask ;).... even though its a Simon game haha
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Actually, I was referring to my Megaman Powered Down project.
I'm not taking anything from the ReBirth game as it is unconnected to CV1 or any of it's various iterations.
Do you think you could make a decent 8-bit Simon to go along with my game?
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Umm... 8 bit? Sure
Oh, and a couple questions... What style Simon? And also, could you show me what the NES' palette looks like?
Thanks
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There are a few interpretations of the NES palette. Emulators you may have seen or used generally do not have the correct palette. Say using an NES emulator, and doing a side by side comparison with an NES Virtual Console title, you will see a striking difference.
Attached is the NES's actual palette as you'd see images on your tv. From my understanding the intended color and the color that actually comes out on the screen are different. The actual colors are much darker, and yes also duller.
Now, related, but more directed toward Inccubus. I've manly studied Capcom games as far as NES style and structure but things to keep in mind, and this is especially true for Megaman games, is that for some reason they strive to remain at or under 16 colors total per screen. Capcom employs tricks to do so, balancing out enemy layouts and background tiles to remain under that limit, switching palettes between certain rooms and so forth. I have however caught 17 colors once, in Plantman's stage in Megaman 6, but it was incredibly difficult to cause.
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Thanks, Uzo.
One more question though, how many colors can I use for, say, a Simon-sized sprite? And also can I use any of those colors I want as long as they remain under the limit?
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Yes, you can use any of the colors from the palette in any combination.
There is a 4 color limit per sprite. The 4th color is ALWAYS invisible, so essentially aside from the background color you have 3 colors to work with that will be visible.
In the case of Simon, you could use 3, or you could use up to 6, why? Think back to Megaman games. Megaman looks like he has 5 colors! Black outline, darker blue, lighter blue, skintone, and white for the eyes. How is this possible? Simple actually... They use TWO sprites.
Attached is an image with two diagrams.
In figure A, we have two sprites, simply assembled in game. The down side to this is you must make sure they are completely contained. You can shift them and arrange them as you please, but each sprite can't contain more than 4 colors on its own. This is a tricky style to use.
In figure B, we have three sprites. We overlap the shoulder pads and hair over the top half sprite to get more colors. Just remember, the more sprites drawn the more slowdown you potentially have. Likewise the NES does flicker sprites if there are too many sprites horizontally on one scan line.
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Hmm... Do you think it would slow down too much if there is a single, main sprite on the bottom and just one overlapping?
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Umm... 8 bit? Sure
Oh, and a couple questions... What style Simon? And also, could you show me what the NES' palette looks like?
Thanks
Could you do one of each of these? NES/MSX style, SCV4 style, and Upgraded Chronicles style. I'd like to give the player a choice in the options.
@Uzo: Thanks for providing that info in my absence. ^_^
About the 16 color thing in Megaman games. I believe the reason they stick to 16 or 17 colors is because of the art style they use. All the sprites use outlines which limits them to just 2 colors +black each and the bg's use 3 each. So they end up with 12 colors max for the background, 4 sprite colors for enemies, and 4 for Megaman at any given time. It should also be noted that the NES can't use more than 8 palettes at once.
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I found the answer, after hours of research. Megaman games use 25 colors. "Wait what?!" is what you're thinking right? There are many opinions on the internet about the NES's color limits, and most of them are dead wrong.
Here is the truth I discovered.
The NES has 8 palettes total. Period. There is no way to increase this number, not even with extra chips in the cart.
Each palette consists of four colors. Only THREE are visible. There is NO exception to this rule either. There are four background palettes, and four sprite palettes.
(4 background palettes) x (3 visible colors) = 12 colors
(4 sprite palettes) x (3 visible colors) = 12 colors
12+12 = 24 colors
But wait, that's not 25! You're right. There is one more color, that is the full screen background color. Usually it remains black, giving the background the illusion that there are four colors per background tile.
So, that makes up the full 25. So why do Megaman games usually have 17 colors or less?
Sprite Palette #1 (Megaman's body)
(transparent) (black) (blue) (light blue)
Sprite Palette #2 (Megaman's face)
(transparent) (black) (skin) (white)
Sprite Palette #3 (Enemy 1)
(transparent) (black) (color1) (color2)
Sprite Palette #4 (Enemy 2)
(transparent) (black) (color1) (color2)
Notice that black is in every palette. Anything that uses these palettes needs to be outlined, right? Well, that's 4 colors right there. Even though they're duplicates, it counts toward the 25 total. This is how Megaman games don't get above 17. Its not that they decided not to, its that they really couldn't. A lot of enemies and effects reuse Megaman's face palette. No enemy uses Megaman's palette though, because it changes with weapons and charging.
This example is ditto for background palettes. The same logic applies.
Depending on what enemies are on screen, and between rooms, these palette do change, and they change very often.
So, that's mystery solved.
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I guess that's why they call it 8-bits cause it's 8 pallettes of colors. Now the SNES has double that amount and the list goes on. Good research there uzo, I wouldn't have guessed.
-X
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I guess that's why they call it 8-bits cause it's 8 pallettes of colors
Completely wrong. It has to do with the hardware. "8-bit" in terms of graphics is a complete misnomer when concerning game consoles. An image that is 8-bit has 256 colors. The NES has 2bit images, and the SNES has 4bit images.
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Ok, I have a little concept here with just 3 colors, nothing too complicated yet. Tell me what you think.
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi297.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm201%2FCrims0nf0rtune%2FSimon8.png%3Ft%3D1269306094&hash=253feb3e8c4d8b3c01bee45568587be25ff16850)
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$#%T! They couldv'e used that in the original castlevania! Good spriting job crims0nf0rtune. :D
-X
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Very nice! That's just the kind of thing I had in mind. ^_^
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Thanks, I put together a CVIV-esque sprite using 6 colors... Don't be afraid to tell me if it looks too busy or anything. ;)
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi297.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm201%2FCrims0nf0rtune%2FSimon8-1.png%3Ft%3D1269399441&hash=890a03ebd92a85a10c7988116987e743e0d94ce9)
Also, I separated the two sprites to demonstrate how each has 3 colors.
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi297.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm201%2FCrims0nf0rtune%2FSimon8-2.png%3Ft%3D1269400343&hash=5577a04095de2883646a22564f4c1d07dc87a4ae)
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Check again. There are 8 colors total.
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****! The transparency! Hahaha, knew it was too colorful to be true.... I'll fix it next time I have the time.
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No. The transparency makes it 7. That is fine, since only 6 colors are visible.
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Hmm... I'm a little lost here as to what the eighth color is. Mind explaining to me a little more?
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Give up? You have two blacks. 0,0,0 and 2,2,2.
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Really, I thought I only used one source for the black... In any case, the rest is fine though, right?
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Yes, the rest is legit for an NES character. The only thing that may be off is the actual colors, but I wouldn't worry about that too much.
EDIT: You were close on colors. Here is proper NES colors.
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Thanks, and yeah they were really close I just checked.
Also, I think I fixed the blacks by going back and penciling over each pixel haha, so I think it should be fixed now.
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I would suggest using a bright color to color them all. That way you know they're all the same color for sure, since you can see the difference. Then recolor them all back to the black you want.
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Good idea, that way I'll know I didn't mess up by missing a pixel or something like that.
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That looks kick-ass! Again, it's just the thing I'm looking for.
You're really giving me some great motivation. I'm trying to finish up the menus for my Megaman game ASAP so I can start on the CV ones.
I figure things will go quick and stay interesting for me if I alternate between the two projects.
Plus, having your help, crims0nf0rtune, will really keep things going at a good rate. ^_^
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Ok, here's the CVC-style Simon:
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi297.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm201%2FCrims0nf0rtune%2FSimon8-3.png%3Ft%3D1269579764&hash=9f4ac79bcba81b3f7127e320e911726946f6f36a)
And the improved CV1 Simon(6 colors):
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi297.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm201%2FCrims0nf0rtune%2FSimon8-4.png%3Ft%3D1269581806&hash=42ffe697a0c8f2774404a5a3f68a4122f33e3f7e)
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Excellent! Great job. This is gonna be awesome!
I'm gonna start working on the CV engine on Monday and I'll insert the graphics as you finish them.
Here's an in-game screen shot of the New Game menu in my MMPU remake as an example of my work:
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi256.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh189%2Fkoala_knight%2FMMPD%2Fscreenshot109.png&hash=d0f3b7de907075a96ec5b0101654b2312c82732c)
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That looks sweet!!
-X
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Thanks! ^_^
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Good news for PSP owners.
There are some interesting things going on with GameMaker that will eventually allow you guys to play MMPD & my CV de-make on a PSP!
This is all legit, too. No need to mod your PSP.
Check it out:
http://glog.yoyogames.com/?p=762
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oh man thatll be awesome!
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Wanted to let you guys know that I'm in the process of consolidating all the NES, MSX, HC, SNES, & X68K level layouts into one complete set of ~17 stages. Concessions are being made for the mode 7 SNES levels as the NES wouls never have been able to handle such feats of processing prowess.
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EDIT: Added a mosaic-collage-thingy made of screen shots to illustrate how the room pieces are going to fit together.
Stage 7 mosaic-collage-thingy RAR (http://www.mediafire.com/file/gnho43zyy0v/Stage 7 - mosaic coladge thingy.rar)
Alright I think I've worked out the basic room order for the most iconic stage in all the CV games "The Entrance" a.k.a. the "Main Hall".
Here's the map and a breakdown of how the parts were used:
NES = Castlevania
MSX = Vampire Killer
HC = Haunted Castle
SNES = Super Castlevania IV
X68K = Castlevania Chronicles
Stage 7: The Entrance
7-1 = X68K 1-1a
7-2 = SNES 5-2
7-3 = NES 1-1b + X68K 1-1b
7-4 = MSX 1-2 + NES 1-2 + X68K 1-2
7-5a = MSX 1-3 + NES 1-3 + X68K 1-3
7-5b = SNES 6-1