Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => Hardcore Gaming 101 => Topic started by: Inccubus on March 26, 2010, 09:01:48 PM
-
Post why FF13 sucks or is great.
Why I don't like the game at all and it gives a big "fuck you" to the older fans.
-Linearity through out most of the game.
-Little to no interaction with the environment.
-No towns!!
-Completely new enemies pretending to be "classic" ones.
-Too much emphasis on action for an established RPG series.
-More tech than fantasy even down to the summons.
I don't consider this to be a fitting game for the series because it is too different from a FF game in a general sense. Hell this thing is barely an RPG so much as an adventure game with no platforming. It is blatantly an attempt to make something new while milking the series name for all it's worth. They did it in FF11, FF12, and with the entire Crystal Chronicles series.
I am totally against this sort of crap, because it is like openly admitting your new game can't stand on it's own merits. Square is a chicken shit company as far as they have made evident. And no, just because Square calls it a FF doesn't make it a good decision to do so.
If I'm wrong and this game does have merit as a solid entry into the series, then I challenge it's defenders to give me some good reasons why that outweigh it's glaring faults.
-
Interesting that this comes up right around when I post a reply in Lords of Shadow about just what exactly makes a game a 'particular' series' game.
I'm in agreement with you. Although I generally like the game, it feels like an "On Rails" Action RPG. The map is a joke, and any deviation is just slightly off the beaten path and always, ALWAYS leads to just a chest or some enemies or some enemies right by a chest. And, considering that you're stuck doing this for the first fistfull of hours into the game, it can be really annoying.
I also agree about the lack of interactivity with the environment. Seriously, it's the same problem Lament of Innocence had with its beautiful yet wallpaper-ey backgrounds. Piles upon piles of junk... or beautiful crystals that you cannot at all touch.
I miss towns as well... I also miss pressing a button to talk to people. I don't like 'eavesdropping' on what they're saying by being near them... and there aren't enough people anyway... the main characters are the only ones that you can sort of have conversations with (usually a dumbass cutscene).... and sadly, the ones we've got just upset me. Lightning is an idiot bitch... might as well have put a wig on Cloud. Hope is a whiny bitch (which is double stupid 'cuz he's a guy) who goes emo and can't freakin' open his mouth so that his conflict with Snow get some damn closure. Snow is a moron. The only character so far I like is Sazh, and unfortunately he doesn't get nearly enough screen time. I do not know enough about Vanille yet, but she's oblivious to most things... I kinda like her 'cuz she offsets the Emo crap Hope is usually going on about.
I also agree about the cyberpunk replacing the steampunk. Also, TRANSFORMEEEERS! x_X
We're pretty much in agreement in the Lost Odyssey thing. Now THAT game was damn awesome and felt more FinalFantasy-like than FF did, even though it lacked all the references. It sort of shows you that all the references in the world won't make a game any more like a series if the fundamentals are not cohesive with what's worked. Either that, or just call it a Gaiden or a Crystal Chronicles, or a Lost Tales or something else (Tactics even managed to jump into Strategy/Tactical RPG and still felt more FF than FFXIII did, lawlz).
-
Geez, and to think I was considering renting/purchasing this game.. I guess there's Final Fantasy Versus XIII to look forward to?
-
I've never played the game, let alone the others. I kinda stopped at FF9. Skipped 7 and 8 cause they didn't jive with me like 9 did, or even the first 6 games of the series for that matter. Maybe that's why it took so long for FF13 to arrive here because Square-Enix was concerned about how it would be recieved.
-X
-
I also agree about the lack of interactivity with the environment. Seriously, it's the same problem Lament of Innocence had with its beautiful yet wallpaper-ey backgrounds. Piles upon piles of junk... or beautiful crystals that you cannot at all touch.
Jorge, I cannot properly express how much that sucked ass. To quote James Rolfe, "...it fucking sucked so much suck that it fucked."
All of the rest of the problems that the game had for me would probably have been forgiven if at least walking through all those seemingly endless hallways was made more fun by letting me bust some shit up other than candelabras. Busting up walls and finding stuff is part of the basic fun of a CV game for me.
As for FF Versus 13, isn't that game a straight up action-RPG in a similar vein as Kingdom Hearts, but with a post-modern setting?
...or was that FF Agito 13? Fuck, they're confusing the shit outta me with all these different 13 games.
[rant]
Come to think of it isn't the moniker for the 13 game "Fabula Nova Crystallis"; "New Tale of the Crystal" in Latin? I remember them spewing all this rhetoric for the last couple of years about the 13 games being a fresh start for the series. What the hell is the point of that?!? Why the fuck not just make a new series called Fabula Nova Crystallis?!? There isn't a damn thing that says they can't start a new series with elements from FF as an homage. WTF?!?!
[/rant]
OK, I just looked up the other games. FF Agito ("I put in motion") 13 is basically "Crisis Core:FF7" + ATB + multiple characters.
FF Versus 13 is just as I thought. The wiki says this: "Within recent interviews in Japanese video game magazines, Tetsuya Nomura has stated that Versus XIII's gameplay will be a realistic derivation of Kingdom Hearts's battle system with some elements of a third-person shooter aspect."
So what we have is a sub series of Action RPGs that basically no fundamental elements in common with the Main FF series.
Thanks a lot Square.
-
I'm digging it so far. It reminds me alot of FFX and FFX-2. X's story had a very linear feel to it because they were establishing the mythos of the world, only to drag it all back down at the end. The combat system feels like a hybrid of X-2 with a bit of XII mixed in. Even the map exploration feels like X-2, with jumping, lack of map deviation (which is okay so far, because it keeps the game focused), and inclusion of cut-scenes at random times. But I really like that so far because I had enough exploration and such from XI and XII to last me awhile. I appreciate Square for always trying something new, even when it could be improved upon. So, overall, I'm liking the game as a whole.
Some things could use work. The music is a mixed buffet so far, Hope pisses me off, and Paradigm Shifting can take too long sometimes. The combat can feel rewarding and fun occasionally, but there are points where it feels limited during the beginning parts. As I'm writing this, I'm only at Chapter 6, so maybe my tune will change. But so far, I'm digging it.
-
From what I understand you won't see any change in that formula until chapter 10 or 11.
Then they'll let you let you roam around freely for like a chapter or two.
-
Jorge, I cannot properly express how much that sucked ass. To quote James Rolfe, "...it fucking sucked so much suck that it fucked."
All of the rest of the problems that the game had for me would probably have been forgiven if at least walking through all those seemingly endless hallways was made more fun by letting me bust some shit up other than candelabras. Busting up walls and finding stuff is part of the basic fun of a CV game for me.
As for FF Versus 13, isn't that game a straight up action-RPG in a similar vein as Kingdom Hearts, but with a post-modern setting?
...or was that FF Agito 13? Fuck, they're confusing the shit outta me with all these different 13 games.
[rant]
Come to think of it isn't the moniker for the 13 game "Fabula Nova Crystallis"; "New Tale of the Crystal" in Latin? I remember them spewing all this rhetoric for the last couple of years about the 13 games being a fresh start for the series. What the hell is the point of that?!? Why the fuck not just make a new series called Fabula Nova Crystallis?!? There isn't a damn thing that says they can't start a new series with elements from FF as an homage. WTF?!?!
[/rant]
OK, I just looked up the other games. FF Agito ("I put in motion") 13 is basically "Crisis Core:FF7" + ATB + multiple characters.
FF Versus 13 is just as I thought. The wiki says this: "Within recent interviews in Japanese video game magazines, Tetsuya Nomura has stated that Versus XIII's gameplay will be a realistic derivation of Kingdom Hearts's battle system with some elements of a third-person shooter aspect."
So what we have is a sub series of Action RPGs that basically no fundamental elements in common with the Main FF series.
Thanks a lot Square.
Interestingly enough, Nomura has said that Versus will stay true to classical FF traditions, more so than FFXIII did. He's been talking about thew hole world map thing, and an airship you could fully control. He also hinted(way back), that the summons will appear in traditional(non-mecha) form. Sure, it's an action RPG, but it just might have more of the "FF feel" than FFXIII did. Add onto that Shimomura's wonderful music. I always thought she was more fitting a composer to take over the musical duties after Uematsu. More fitting, IMO, than Hamauzu, whom I just don't care for.
Agito, it's pretty secretive. They said the battle system will be a tweaked Crisis Core system. Naora recently commented that the game, itself, will be very large and epic. Out of all the games, Agito seems to be set in sort've a retro, early 20th century-inspired, considering the footage seen in the trailer with the grainy WWI/WWII-styled military.
-
Are you talking about FF14 which is just around the corner?
-X
-
No, we're discussing 13.
14 is a whole other bucket of fuck you to the older fans.
As far as I'm concerned that game's title is "Final Fantasy Online 2".
-
FF14 may appeal to FF11 fans, which there are still many of. I don't blame them for wanting to make an online game, however they shouldn't give it a number. MMORPGs are so incredibly different from RPGs its very misleading.
I haven't posted my view of FF13 in this thread, but you have probably seen it in the Lords of Shadow thread. Its a poor quality RPG that manages to be entertaining at times. However, after 25-30 hours of playing I couldn't force myself to play it anymore. Its a bad game. The story is absolutely awful. The characters and their development is all very weak, and character development for any given character lasts for only about an hour before they drop them. Imagine every character in the game getting the same treatment as Freya in FFIX (although even worse than that), where they just drop off after their moment in the spotlight. They aren't even interesting when the story is focusing on them though, unlike Freya.
Its a bad game, avoid it. Maybe get it when its in the bargain bin for the sake of playing the whole Final Fantasy series, but saying its actually a good game is misleading. Its mildly entertaining with few redeeming qualities.
-
Although I am not one to talk (haven't played XIII yet), it seems that whoever writes the stories over at Square either feels the current trend has enough depth, or they simply aren't talented or thoughtful enough to actually create something with true depth and substance. I've found that the last few FF games have been prime examples. And yes, I am including FFX.
-
As far as I'm concerned FFX-2 was the last game they made that was reasonably identifiable as a 'true' FF.
I was willing to overlook the lack of a world map since it and X had pretty much everything else that a FF should.
-
FFIX.. After that, the seriers have died.
-
My favorite was & still is Tactics. Still haven't played the sequels, tho.
-
I havent cared about FF since 6. 12 was pretty good I liked the gambit system and how you didnt have to control each member if ya didnt want but that was about it. I played the new CC on Wii... its meh
-
I'd like to note that I do not under any circumstances consider the CC series to have anything even remotely like the idea of a possible connection the Final Fantasy.
The sequels of FFT are mostly crap, and I hate the character designer. The only game that can be considered a pseudo-sequel to FFT is Vagrant Story and that's actually a pretty good game. And lookie there! They didn't even have to name it after FF or Tactics.
-
Bleh. I'm so over this series is not even funny.
Looking back at the entire FF series I only really care about 4, 6 and 9. I did find 12 reasonably enjoyable for 15 hours or so, but then I lost interest.
I played FF Tactics Advance and didn't like it. It's so repetitive, especially compared to Shining Force or Fire Emblem (love them).
All my favorite RPG series are fucking up completely.
- Final Fantasy is not even an RPG anymore.
- Suikoden is probably dead.
- Shining-series is Japan-only nowadays (and terrible).
- Phantasy Star has turned into dungeon crawling at its absolute worst.
- Seiken Densetsu is just... oh. dear.
I want Dragon Quest IX.
-
All my favorite RPG series are fucking up completely.
I agree, I loved the Seiken Densetsu series, but only 4 are actually good, Sword of Mana, Secret of Mana, Seiken Densetsu 3 and Legend of Mana.
And I love Wild Arms, but only 1-3 were good.
And I absolutly loved Brave Fencer Musashi and they fucked that up with a terrible sequel. Thank god they didn't do anything to fuck up Threads of Fate.
-
But Threads of Fate never came out with a sequel right?
Brave Fencer 2 I haven't played but my friend said pretty much the same as you did.
It's sad that I can go back and play FF8, FFT, Suikoden 1 and 2, Valkyrie Profile and enjoy it immensely, but the new ones is maybe a one time run through.
-
I've watched my bro play this game a lot. Looks phenomenal, but Vanille's voice is like nails scratching a chalkboard in hell. I wish she'd pick a damn accent and stick with it. It's like hearing someone out of a B-movie.
Seeing how much shitty stuff I like, Vanille wouldn't bother me so much if she wasn't constantly jabbering about sunshine or flowers or beach balls and the cutscenes didn't practically scream, "SHE'S CUTE! ISN'T SHE CUTE? LOOK HOW CUTE SHE IS! LOOK OR I'LL KILL YOU!"
Sazh is cool, though. You'd think he'd be more concerned about his hair, though; wouldn't the chocobo crap all over it?
-
I agree, I loved the Seiken Densetsu series, but only 4 are actually good, Sword of Mana, Secret of Mana, Seiken Densetsu 3 and Legend of Mana.
Yeah, that's where its at. Though Sword of Mana was incredibly short, even shorter than the original b&w Gameboy game. Unless you count both quests, but I only played through the hero quest.
While FF13 is not doing it for me at all, I still have some faith in the RPG genre. Valkyria Chronicles was absolutely fantastic and I can't wait to play the sequel (which should've been on the PS3, but I can settle for PSP is its even half as good as its predecessor.)
I also love Lost Odyssey, and like someone already pointed out - this is in many ways more Final Fantasy than FF13.
I'm also thinking about taking a look at the Tales-series. I loved Eternal Sonata (which isn't even a Tales game, but some call it Tales of Chopin so I guess there are similarities).
I will probably play through FF13 one day, but right now I'd rather pick up Resonance of Fate. Anyone tried it? It looks kinda interesting.
-
Dawn of Mana blew, but most of the rest of the series is pretty damn good.
I recommended to anyone that hasn't played Seiken Densetsu 3 yet to dust off their emulators and grab a translation patch for it.
Threads of Fate was a good game too.
-
Because I love the Mana games I forced myself through Dawn, Children and Heroes. I didn't finish Heroes but it wasn't terrible. And Dawn wasn't too bad. When you see Flammie in Dawn for the first time and hear that music it so awesome!
-
Because I love the Mana games I forced myself through Dawn, Children and Heroes. I didn't finish Heroes but it wasn't terrible. And Dawn wasn't too bad. When you see Flammie in Dawn for the first time and hear that music it so awesome!
Dawn was never released in Europe, dunno why. But I've heard the soundtrack and it's awesome!
I hear Dawn has level-by-level progression, and you're "rated" after each stage, like in some action game? I mean, who would want that? Does that make it really linear too? Also, you only level up within each level, and then you loose all your experience points when you go to the next level? Not that I know if this is good or bad, but it doesn't sound much like an RPG at all. Makes me wonder why they couldn't just give us something like Secret of Mana, but in 3D.
SquareEnix really seem to go out of their way to not ever make a new Seiken Densetsu with some of the flavour that made Secret of Mana one of the most loved SNES games of all time. It's like they WANT the franchise to fail - both critically and sales-wise - by turning the whole series into an experimental melting pot of really irrational ideas that they are afraid to try out in their other franchises. "Oh, an unused gameplay idea that nobody really liked? Let's put it in our next Seiken Densetsu game and see what happens!"
Sorry for being off topic. I'll stop now.
-
Yeah, that starting 'fresh' in every level and even the fact that there are levels was really stupid.
The game probably didn't come out in Europe because sales in Japan and the US were pathetic.
Squre seriously needs to stop re-imagining everything they produce. Not everything is Final Fantasy.
And more often than not if it ain't broke, they really need to leave that bitch alone.