Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: SomaCruz90 on October 04, 2010, 12:04:17 PM
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Part I: Road Into Darkness - The Castlevania Retrospective (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/part-i-the-castlevania/705561)
They did some really great retrospectives on Metroid, Zelda, and Final Fantasy before(although they aren't above stealing artwork from fansites, so watch your bandwidth!)
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Yay, I have been waiting for this to happen.
edit: Heh, funny how they mentioned the current status of the CVIII adaption. I wonder if they got the information from that thread I made a while ago.
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That was really good. I'm looking forward to the next piece
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I liked that. I'm surprised to hear that games like Ghosts'n Goblins outsold the original Castlevanias though...
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Very nice, looking forward to part 2.
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Very cool. Let us know when part 2 is out.
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Machinima also doing Castlevania retrospective. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdR6psw1ZLc#ws)
Seems Lords of Shadow sparked a new interest in the series.
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I reallly liked it, they actually KNOW about the obscure games, and, holy hell, even the original Castlevania has dual personality! :P
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Machinima one sucks. The narrator is annoying and they chose Legacy of Darkness to illustrate the series' low points. >:(
Couldn't they have went with Adventure or Legends?
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Couldn't they have went with Adventure or Legends?
It is sad, but I think most people nowadays know that there are "some 3D Castlevanias that suck"...and not much remember that there were some rather bad 2D games on the first Game Boy.
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they chose Legacy of Darkness to illustrate the series' low points. >:(
Sounds about right to me.
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Must you post every time this happens, argh! I disagree! :P :P P
**counterpoint**
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Even bad guys are entitled to their opinion, right?
Right..? :\
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They are, they are...
You're not a bad guy, though.
You're really trying though. It's not a bad game, you just keep trying to convince people (or yourself) it is.
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This is getting off-topic, but I thought the consensus was LoD was awful(ya know, because it was)?
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It is. Some people cling to the fond memory of it though. Can't fault them for nostalgia. It had the mood and feeling right, it just needed any shred of playability to back it up. Missed potential, nothing more.
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I think its that potential that's really appealing.
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This is getting off-topic, but I thought the consensus was LoD was awful(ya know, because it was)?
You're thinking of Castlevania64. Although I like that game a lot, I will concede that it is riddled with problems. LoD is way more polished, though.
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A polished turd perhaps.
Seriously though, you guys should go make a "LoD: Crap or underrated gem!?" thread and be done with it.
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I think your opinion is a bit coarse on this subject.
Nah your idea has been thought of and done before, years back. There's no need to make another, because it will, inevitably, degrade itself to a flamefest. People's divisive opinions are unlikely to be changed, and open debate on this has been done to hell and back.
UZO and I just counterpoint each other as a running gag, by now, so just disregard us. ;)
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Castlevania 64 and Legacy of Darkness are not perfect; however, on the whole, they are better (and have more replay value) than the action-hallway overloaded LoI and CoD on PS2 (overall, those have greater flaws than the N64 games). I find it sad that few media outlets seem to even remember the N64 outings (they almost always mention the PS2 games as the main 3D attempts). I rate the N64 era rather highly still--upper middle maybe. They got so much right in terms of atmosphere, characters, and game design (and the Beta versions show evidence of even more positives, such as swinging across gaps, that could have been given time and resources). Anyway, in the latter retrospective, SotN is just unbelievably overrated at this point. It's a good game, but it doesn't crush everything else in Castlevania. I think it's partially because of the time frame and console that it came out on that people have cherished it so much. I think Rondo of Blood has the same overhyped nature because of its one-time rarity. Anyway, both of these retrospectives have their nice points. Gametrailers' presentation is especially slick. I'm glad to see that it looks like Dracula XX (SNES) will not be overlooked in Part II of Gametrailers retrospective.
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Well, it doesn't surprise me that SoTN is so overrated. It has all these unique quirks and touches that never reappeared and all those little secrets, from the bookcase to the weapon special moves to the shield rod moves. I guess you can say it has some really outstanding lasting value compared to every other game.
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As for me I don't cling to the nostalgia, when it goes to CV64 / LOD. I played both of them 7 years after they were released. And they even weren't my first 3D action / platformer games.
I am honestly think about them as a good games (but with some problems).
As a matter of fact for me those games were much more interesting than SOTN. They were hard, charming. And most importantly they gameplay was interesting from start to finish, unlike SOTN's. There are enough creativity and interesting tidbits, that made me forgot about some of the bad things, like sometimes clumsy controls and annoying (yet easily tamed) camera.
I think people tend to bash them for two reasons - there are 3D (so some hRadcore 2D fans are agitated because of this). And they were realesed two years after SOTN, so they were automaticaly compared to the one of the technicaly best titles in the series. Combinatrion of those things lead to the point where good things about those titles are forgotten and bad points exagerated to the point where some people think that there is nothing good about those games.
It's like those two games have bad reputation. But in reality this reputation is a combination of several factors, and doesn't have much to do with the real shortcomings of those games.
It could be compared to the CV2 reputation. Like after AVGN video some people began to bash this game even if they had never played it.
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ITT the 5 people who actually liked the N64 games.
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There are more than five, stop trolling us.
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Make that 6 people. ;D
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Seven, with me. Something about the atmosphere on those N64 games makes me replay them again and again, and thats funny, even more than other titles that are higher on the list for me, like the NES Castlevanias.
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8 with me too, as I find myself playing the N64 titles from time to time. ;)
-X
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if Legacy of Darkness or CV64 comes to 3DS in a remake (much like Ocarina of Time will), I'm gonna give it another chance. Though I'm not seeing that happening, like, ever.
Btw, according to the not-so-reliable VGChartz, it seems Castlevania 64 outsold the likes of OoE and DXC - combined! That's kinda impressive. The game must, in fact, be one of the better-selling Castlevanias ever.
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There are more than five, stop trolling us.
This.
Some people cling to the fond memory of it though. Can't fault them for nostalgia.
Nostalgia? Of an eleven-year-old game? lol, what? Maybe if I were like...5 when the game came out, one could call it nostalgia, but I was 13, and as far as video games are concerned, my tastes have remained just the same as they were then, because by that point I was already a seasoned gamer, well-established in what I like and what's out there.
Anyway, this is like the tenth thread where uzo trolls the N64 games and its fans. Man, is it old.
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Machinima's Part II Retrospective is up. Pretty good stuff, and they actually give "Castlevania: Dracula X" some credit! Next time they plan to drone on about Sotn... :P
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I wouldn't say Symphony of the Night is overrated. I've only been a Castlevania fan for a year and I love Symphony of the Night and think it deserves its praise. However, I also love Super Castlevania IV, Rondo Of Blood, and Adventure Rebirth, which I had bought after getting into SotN.
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How did I double post with a quote?! :-[
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Part II of Gametrailers Retrospective is now up! Nice job overall. I'm dreading how they're going to bash the N64 era (in Part III). It is so misunderstood.
I wouldn't say Symphony of the Night is overrated. I've only been a Castlevania fan for a year and I love Symphony of the Night and think it deserves its praise. However, I also love Super Castlevania IV, Rondo Of Blood, and Adventure Rebirth, which I had bought after getting into SotN.
Yeah, SotN is a great game, and it does deserve more credit than I've given it lately. It's the best of the Metroid-style Castlevanias, I'd say. I can't say it's the best in series for me, as I need more consequential action-platforming with my adventuring. I think the fact that they made so many games so quickly in the same style as SotN, it cheapened SotN's specialness, and this trend was a death sentence for the ambitious Nintendo 64 titles, which tried to move the series forward in 3D on limited technology when people wanted more SotN. Moreover, I don't like how SotN's popularity usually relegates the Classic-style (action-platforming) Castlevanias as inferior, when that style started the whole thing, and had some amazing entries. Castlevania III, Dracula X, and Bloodlines are others that are really great outside the ones you noted, and Simon's Quest is an interesting blend of action and adventure styles.
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Part II of Gametrailers Retrospective is now up! Nice job overall. I'm dreading how they're going to bash the N64 era (in Part III). It is so misunderstood.
Me too. How can they consider the N64 era as CVs darkest era... That was only a 2 year period and both games were pretty good and were well received upon their original release. The DS era was by far worse.
They really spent to much time on Symphony. Its good, yes, but its not significantly better than its predecessors (although it is better than all of its hand held successors), especially in the face of SCV4 and Rondo before it. They make it sound as if its leagues ahead of the other games but its not really.
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Me too. How can they consider the N64 era as CVs darkest era... That was only a 2 year period and both games were pretty good and were well received upon their original release. The DS era was by far worse.
They really spent to much time on Symphony. Its good, yes, but its not significantly better than its predecessors (although it is better than all of its hand held successors), especially in the face of SCV4 and Rondo before it. They make it sound as if its leagues ahead of the other games but its not really.
Yeah, about N64 games, LOOK AT WHAT THEY DID:
*Multiple characters with alternate levels/bosses
*Full 3D gameplay
*Level Design features spatial depth (vertical and horizontal)
*day-and-night cycles
*Weather effects
*Dynamic, real-time lighting (next to candles, for instance)
*spot-on atmosphere
*death-defying platforming
*innovative survival-horror elements
*manageable questing with inventory items
*interesting plot (characters like Rosa, Vincent, Renon, Malice, Henry, etc)
*3D in-game cinemas
*Some voicing
....Can you imagine LoS' graphics and budget on these games?! :o
Now, yes, the graphics were somewhat flawed, and yes the camera and lock-on function had some issues, and sure a few puzzles could be annoying (Castle Center), but darn if CV64 and LoD weren't just as ambitious and daring as SotN--maybe even more so since SotN was based on the successful Super Metroid. They were trying stuff that the N64 really wasn't capable of and risked doing it anyway. Way ahead of their time. Even LoI and CoD didn't have a comparable level of 3D design despite having better hardware.
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Even Metroid couldn't do Metroid in 3D until Gamecube era.
It was at the very least, a very admirable attempt and at the most, a successful execution of a few Castlevania staples (many mentioned above by RichterB), while not really ripping off of anything done around the time (or if it did, it was not by choice).
I have to check out video #2, though.
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Super Castlevania IV <3
I hope they cover ReBirth in later segments.
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CV64 & LoD also had the luxury of being played through this thing
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnet.co.uk%2Fi%2Fc%2Fblg%2Fcat%2Fgamesgear%2Fcontrollers%2Fn64.jpg&hash=2c9788560247c4b5548348fea5a7bf59b9676fb3)
what was nintendo thinking?!
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Eh, I enjoyed that thing. It was quite comfortable actually.
I'll take anyone out in GoldenEye with that thing. ;)
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Even Metroid couldn't do Metroid in 3D until Gamecube era.
The difference is they didn't try to make a 3D game for Metroid on the N64.
I personally found LoD to be super a super "meh" game. It wasn't horrible, but I couldn't get into it like I did for SotN or CVIII. I found myself just putting it down out of boredom halfway through the game.
Maybe it picks up near the end, I don't know.
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Like LoS, it picks up on the latter half. I think it's OK for CV games to be like this.
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64's development seems to correlate with LoS with all they wanted to add in all these great ideas (though I guess 64 was probably more innovative about it), but they all backfired, especially in 64's case when all those features were pulled and we were left with uh, 64. ; - ;
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Part II :)
Part II: Resurrection of Evil - The Castlevania Retrospective (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/part-ii-the-castlevania/705740)
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Man, watching that retrospective on SotN made it perfectly clear why its by far the best Castlevania since: it looks like they actually gave a shit. The phenomenal soundtrack, the amazing art direction in pretty much every area, level design that isn't just giant boxes/straight lines with enemies lined up for attacking, and damn if it isn't one of the most beautiful games ever made, even today in 2010(crappy PS1 3d stuff aside). This is a game made by some super talented people pouring everything they have into one title, and they've been trying and failing to live up to it ever since. I know you guys really like your Rondos and Super CV4, but SOTN is just on another level. Try as he might, IGA will probably never top this masterpiece.
Wheee N64 stuff next. Ambitious as hell, but control/camera issues kill it, and it doesn't help that it looks ugly as sin today. Still, should be interesting!
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I know you guys really like your Rondos and Super CV4, but SOTN is just on another level.
I know you guys really like your Symphony, but SCV4 is just on another level. :P
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SCV4 is probably the best of the Classic style, but its rigid platforming, perfunctory level design, and art direction/soundtrack that never rises above "solid" kinda kills any interest in replaying it.
I should probably have said this in the "SomaCruz90 plays through the CV thread", because I don't think we need another SCV4/SotN argument >_>
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SCV4 is probably the best of the Classic style, but its rigid platforming, perfunctory level design, and art direction/soundtrack that never rises above "solid" kinda kills any interest in replaying it.
I should probably have said this in the "SomaCruz90 plays through the CV thread", because I don't think we need another SCV4/SotN argument >_>
Yeah, what happened to that thread? It's fading. :-[
(I've already given some props to SotN. But just to give the other side of the reasoning, SCV4 used "Mode 7" graphics to great effect, and the sprites were big. The rotating rooms, the spinning backgrounds, and scaling map were striking. The use of the whip was a more versatile weapon & tool than in any 2D Castlevania--the sheer joy of swinging over gaps, attacking in 8 directions, or wielding the thing like a nunchuck, shield, or net-like trap for enemies. The game just was super creepy and its locales really spanned a sense of a journey through a complete world. And finally, it had an ambitious score with parts like the haunting waterfall/cave tune that breaks out into a impromptu jazz piece before you fight the twin serpents. SotN, meanwhile, felt like a mix of Super Metroid with evolved Simon's Quest elements, though it was nice as well. I have to say, they gave it more screen time and more time to shine in this retrospective it seems. Personally, though, the whole remixed/upside-down castle thing is kind of padding and the game gets a more meandering feel the deeper you get into it. That sense of mystery is good the first time, but it wears thin upon revisits. Especially when some of the areas seem repetitive in their visual sections, like the bell-tower/cathedral parts. Also, as easy as SCV4 tends to be, SotN, with its floaty controls, super-powers, and lack of instant deaths just drops the tension about 85%. SotN is good, and for a time I ranked it higher, but these days I feel SCV4 had a more lasting appeal and atmosphere. Still, I can't deny that SotN was a beautiful production with a lot of care put in. All things equal, it comes down to one's taste of games--Gothic action-platforming, or a more romantic, breezy, mysterious exploration adventure).
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Yeah, I agree that Super Castlevania IV is the best of the Classicvanias. I wouldn't rate it above Symphony of the Night, but it's definitely far better than what I played of Circle of the Moon. Haven't actually played a Metroidvania in the series other than SotN or CotM, since I have a tough time getting them for cheap. Before you comment, I have the Virtual Console and XBLA releases of the Castlevania games I currently own and, unfortunately, don't really have the money or room to get them for the original console.
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Sorry for the "necromancy", but I just found part III :)
Part III: Realm of Horror - The Castlevania Retrospective (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/part-iii-the-castlevania/705741)
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I was expecting them to shit on the N64 titles considering the "dark days" comment from the prior video. They did a good job highlighting the titles. I was surprised.
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Hardly necromancy... it's only been a week.
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I think I am still used to another forum where topics in 2nd page are supossed to be dead, and get closed quickly :-X
But yeah, I like too how they talk about the N64 titles, for a moment I thought they would give those games just a small mention with basics, but they highlighted very good points of them.
And, dunno, but I still don't like Curse of Darkness, even after watching the video and the mini review D:
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That's too bad... I loved Curse of Darkness. The story was tanker of shit, but the Innocent Devils were so cool. Especially how OP they could be. If LoS had something like IDs in it, it wouldve been so easy, that you'd just have to stand there and block while your IDs destroyed everyone.
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Wow, that retrospective on the N64 era was surprisingly and enjoyably fair. They did a good job highlighting those titles in video form. I hope a lot of people see this and realize these titles weren't so out there/bad as they've been labeled. Their graphics are what they are, and there can be some control/camera issues at times, but I still think they're rather impressive. My opinion of them when they came out was solid, but with time, I've seen how far ahead of the curve they were. I've only played through LoD as Cornell (and bit of Henry) due to renting the game and owning the first 64 title. That will likely change.
Anyway, the video reminded me that LoI had more to it than I remembered. It actually had some platforming and interactive environments--though they were spread out more than this video suggests. I think that CoD's expansion of the hallway mentality numbed me to some of LoI's strengths. I used to be really high on LoI, but I've sort of been more "meh" about it in recent years. I still like its story, characters, atmosphere, music, and bosses, and the combat is solid, but some of its repetitive level design prevents me from playing through it again (a 3rd time; I did do the vampire's mode when it came out). CoD is really a mixed bag. I liked the 3D camera and the ambitious way the world was connected, but the whole package suffered even more from level design and the sort of oddball ID game mechanic. Still, it had some interesting atmosphere and level themes. All and all, I do think GT were a little generous with the 3D IGA titles in not calling out their padded designs, but they did a good job in pointing out why they had some redeemable value, I suppose. I mean, when watching this, I found myself saying, 'I didn't enjoy CoD very much, but it looks cool here.'
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I don't think they actually pointed out anything good in CoD either. The retrospective was pretty lenient on everything.
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The only real problem with LoI and CoD are the long flat level designs. I can bear it in LoI but it renders the game super not fun in CoD because the levels are bigger :( it's a shame too because I enjoyed playing as Trevor.
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The series is really good, but why make us wait so much between episodes!!
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The series is really good, but why make us wait so much between episodes!!
The other big CV video retrospective right now, Machima's, is quicker in its release schedule. They just finished the DS and PS2 era, and are going to talk about HoD and LoS next, I think. However, their retrospective hasn't been as complete in my opinion, and they keep saying how no Castlevania except Dawn of Sorrow sold well. Huh.
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Man, watching that retrospective on SotN made it perfectly clear why its by far the best Castlevania since: it looks like they actually gave a shit. The phenomenal soundtrack, the amazing art direction in pretty much every area, level design that isn't just giant boxes/straight lines with enemies lined up for attacking, and damn if it isn't one of the most beautiful games ever made, even today in 2010(crappy PS1 3d stuff aside). This is a game made by some super talented people pouring everything they have into one title, and they've been trying and failing to live up to it ever since. I know you guys really like your Rondos and Super CV4, but SOTN is just on another level. Try as he might, IGA will probably never top this masterpiece.
SotN is DEFINITELY the most overrated CV game yet.
It also marked the beginning of the recycling, of the artificial length increases and all the flaws that plagued Castlevania ever since. The soundtrack was a definite setback also (IGA games picked up ever since, thankfully) and it was graphically inferior to a lot of same-gen 2D games.
I'm in the process of replaying Circle of the Moon after having played CVIV and all I can think about is how many "downgrades" the saga saw after SotN. The leveling up mechanic alone is a massive problem in the way it's implemented. Meh.
I understand why a lot of people like SotN, and I loved it to bits when it first was released too, but to me today it's definitely a B grade CV game.
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The only real problem with LoI and CoD are the long flat level designs. I can bear it in LoI but it renders the game super not fun in CoD because the levels are bigger :( it's a shame too because I enjoyed playing as Trevor.
The art design was also a massive problem for me. I'm not referring to Kojima's artwork (another "It does for me but I can live without" thing) but to the actual game graphics and environments. Those games looked like a disco show. Way too bright, way too colorful, way too "pop". I sometimes wonder if that is what IGA sees when he designs the 2D games, and we get somewhat gothic atmospheres just because of the technical limitations of the hardware.
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SotN is DEFINITELY the most overrated CV game yet.
It also marked the beginning of the recycling, of the artificial length increases and all the flaws that plagued Castlevania ever since. The soundtrack was a definite setback also (IGA games picked up ever since, thankfully) and it was graphically inferior to a lot of same-gen 2D games.
I'm in the process of replaying Circle of the Moon after having played CVIV and all I can think about is how many "downgrades" the saga saw after SotN. The leveling up mechanic alone is a massive problem in the way it's implemented. Meh.
I understand why a lot of people like SotN, and I loved it to bits when it first was released too, but to me today it's definitely a B grade CV game.
SotN was a great start but IGA never improved the formula at all which is where my beef with his games lie. CotM did it better I think because it still had the difficulty of a classicvania and a LOT more platfoming. I would have liked to see where the series would have went if KCET had control of CV instead of IGA. But all that aside the series definitely needs to go back to it's roots ala megaman 9 & 10. LoS is great but it really doesn't quench that desire for a new CV game like it should have.
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The soundtrack was a definite setback also (IGA games picked up ever since, thankfully) and it was graphically inferior to a lot of same-gen 2D games.
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SotN is DEFINITELY the most overrated CV game yet.
That's DEFINITELY SCIV, but I respect your opinion on this matter ;D
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no, no, no, you got it wrong. it's cviii. cvi always lagging behind it. so unfair.
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no, no, no, you got it wrong. it's cviii. cvi always lagging behind it. so unfair.
inorite :P we need another game like cvI, you hear that konami make cvV like cvI
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SotN is DEFINITELY the most overrated CV game yet.
And lots more blatant lies in this post.
Get lost.
That's DEFINITELY SCIV, but I respect your opinion on this matter ;D
On second thought, get this clown out of here. Vatiel can stay if SomaCruz90 goes as his crime is much worse.
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But all that aside the series definitely needs to go back to it's roots ala megaman 9 & 10.
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi191.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz263%2Fbkrdgksuon%2Fcastlevania-rebirth-1.jpg&hash=9c1bc2251860eb74538f0fefb9465ad5842c2147)
Is it bad how I just now noticed that this game uses the classic logo?
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it should pump out classic style games, metroidvanias, and gowsotcunchartedvanias concurrently.
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That's a rather odd looking logo. Maybe it's the classic logo alongside the "Adventure Rebirth".
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(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi191.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz263%2Fbkrdgksuon%2Fcastlevania-rebirth-1.jpg&hash=9c1bc2251860eb74538f0fefb9465ad5842c2147)
Is it bad how I just now noticed that this game uses the classic logo?
no no I mean EXACTLY like the original nes graphics and music and everything else. Besides as much as I would like to try that game I have no wii.
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I've played it but never bothered to play it again. It was good to play a traditional side-scroller action plateform title again, but adventure Rebirth does not live up to the title of the game that it was meant to represent. It did not turn out as it should have.
-X
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As it should have? Have you played the other Rebirth titles?
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the "Adventure" logo is a version of the Gameboy Castlevania Adventure logo.
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.castlevaniadungeon.net%2FImages%2FScans%2FCVA%2Fcastelvenia-b.jpg&hash=0ca0805bbf9209d5bd19651302386239371abe9a)
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the "Adventure" logo is a version of the Gameboy Castlevania Adventure logo.
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.castlevaniadungeon.net%2FImages%2FScans%2FCVA%2Fcastelvenia-b.jpg&hash=0ca0805bbf9209d5bd19651302386239371abe9a)
Yeah, I like that they kept both classic logos for the Rebirth. In fact, that logo is just cool the way it slaps you in the face. And Rebirth itself was a great game as long as you play it on Hard Mode, where the level design and enemy variety is much improved (and the challenge is high). Rebirth is the most pure "fun" I've had with a Castlevania game is long time. Level 3 just made me grin ear to ear with its amount of traps and secret routes. The music is all kinds of awesome, too. Granted, Rebirth could have had more to do with the original GB's "The Adventure" (which I also liked). But I'm hoping for a Rebirth 2 that incorporates the leftover elements plus those of Belmont's Revenge.
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i personally like BR's logo
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frpgmusic.org%2Fwp-content%2Fthemes%2Frpgmusic%2Fimages%2Fgameboxes%2Fcastlevania2belmontsrevenge.jpg&hash=4e659f12b75964bb02c194be6785e4199ee1c445)
the font itself infuses the Castlevania spirit & is very memorable
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Belmont's Revenge works well with the painting. I like the original Adventure as well. I don't mind that they reused the logos for Rebirth I just think it needs tweaking.
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Get lost.
Try to put what I said in context.
I've not said SotN is terrible; I've said is overrated. And for a game that is by many held up as an AAA+ cum laude game it's very easy to be overrated. I'm replaying SotN; it's a very good game, and I love some of its bits. However, there's a massive amount of flaws in it:
- Level design: SotN introduces the Metroidvania formula without perfecting it. In short, Metroid works better because it's consistent. SotN is an hot mess because navigation between the different parts of the palace is horribly disconnected. You go from great pieces like the library or the catacombs to the caves to the stairs to the hallway in a matter of... seconds.
Classicvania games were built upon the idea of "stages"; each stage being consistent and possibly leading to something (you start in a pretty generic graveyard area then climb a hill then reach a mausoleum etc). There is a "narrative" in the stage; it's consistent. SotN essentially designs areas according to their label, and almost never does actually anything to *describe* the area in question.
You now are in the "marble corridor with axe lords area": cue an endless repetition of the tileset filled with monsters. It's a corridor-based design that for the most part leads nowhere and sucks a lot out of the experience. Dracula's Castle doesn't really feel like a place at all; it's incredibly game-ish level design and while it does work in many ways, I still feel that Castlevania needs to wove the narrative in its level design. LoS did this very well, and CotM did it a whole lot better than SotN. I'd simply want to see some variation inside the various tematic tileset: the missed opportunity is huge here, and the ending feeling is that this corridor is entirely identical to itself and eventually leads to another area transition corridor that leads to a corridor. Once again, play Odin Sphere: it's a corridor brawler that doesn't give up on delivering beautiful and *evolving* setpieces, something that SotN doesn't even attempt. And that's why when you get to places like the top of the towers or the clock you face blows off: it feels like you actually gotten somewhere, that this place is a *place* but it's only good for contrast with the rest. The entire game should be like that.
- the level up design: I love RPGs. It's my favourite genre. I completely bloody love RPGs. I want a level up system in the next LoS if possible.
But SotN is a disaster. You're taking 1 damage per hit from stuff in 50% of the castle in a matter of 45 minutes, wearing the second armor upgrade you got. Sure, there's some decent scaling later on, but CV games should never be trivial. CotM has the same mechanic but it applies it with more wisdom. SotN is simply way too easy.
- the weapon system: this isn't a "CV without a whip = fail" argument, but the entire weapon system in SotN feels lackluster. None of the weapons Alucard gets feels as cool as the whip or chain; they're simply underused. The game starts strong by highlighting the difference between something like daggers and swords (the morning star also feels fresh). But as you proceed on and see that 80% of the weapons in the game feel the same the oomph is gone. Cue CotM, and what they did with the whip, and you see why SotN misses out on fun.
- Story: CV never had really good storytelling, but it had great atmosphere. You could imagine those storylines more than seeing them told. It played with your imagination. I was hooked as a kid. SotN boldly implemented quite a bit of voiceover, but its enfasis on exposition (as sparce and disconnected as it felt) sort of sucked something from the fantasy. It wasn't you and Belmont anymore, going through a story told by its environments more than its text; you were stumbling in people (well, 3 people) randomly while running around in the castle for no apparent reason, and the story sort of just got in the way. It's probably a personal remark, but once again later games did it much better.
That's my entire point on it being overrated. It's a good game, a great game even, but I see it as a B grade Castlevania because the good things it introduced were almost universally done better in its future iterations, and the bad things it introduced still plague us today. One thing it still has going for it is its colossal size: it's a huge game full of things to find, loot, equip and level up. But I'm playing SotN and CotM at the same time and I can't help but feeling CotM is the superior game by a STRONG margin. And I hate playing on handhelds - heck, if anything I love dipping in SotN because of how comfortable the controls feel.
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I agree with Valtiel, SOTN is the most overrated thing in CV history, the game is good but nostalgia factor makes people believe is he perfection made game. And it's, at its core, no more than a Metroid clone, and a shameless one. Oh the irony.
Iga says:
"I can't play Symphony of the Night, I'm afraid I'm going the hundreds of glitches we left in"
IGA says:
"Symphony of the night is the perfect game"
Don't try to argue with Uzo he's too despective sometimes but don't take it seriously he's just joking :P
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Meh, I was never really one to call it a metroid clone. Since I believe it had Metroid things in it, like Metroid had Mario things in it. OMG SAMUS CAN JUMP!
I mean, there were quite a few good things in it that I'm sure was not in Metroid despite not really big on Metroid games. Like the spells and how they are learned and used. Which is basically finding out yourself, but yet... you can learn it at the beginning of the game if you wished.
Metroid didn't have the RPG aspects of SotN either, afaik anyway.
I have to ask, why do people call it Metroidvania? Aside from the free roam aspect of it?
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Eww, CotM. It's like a more generic version of SotN right down to the "sorta-kinda-not-quite" box art mimicking Ayami Kojima. The DSS system was a good idea, but holy hell good luck obtaining it, since the drops are so random and you have no idea which monster drops what. And heck, even when you get the cards, the game doesn't even tell you what they do. Often times I'd activate them, some subtle effect would happen, and I'd stare at the screen with an arched eyebrow.
And this random drop thing goes to the whole game. I had a shit-ton of leather armor, but barely any damn potions. Good game design there, Konami.
SotN is similar to Metroid in level design, but it works because the areas are so easily identifiable with clear divisions. Its a game so well-designed the developers had the foresight for the players to explore the entire castle UPSIDE DOWN. CotM, on the other hand, a bunch of jumbled-up rooms that all kind of bled into one another, and the limited background tile set made for lots of repetition. Even WITH the warps, there's a lot of fricken' backtracking, so get ready to CONSTANTLY double tap to do your little two-frames of animation dash, because Nathan Graves has the slowest walk of all-time.
I can see how Classicvania fans would like it though. Stiff controls, whip action, slow walk, uneven difficulty: yep, sounds like Castlevania!
Cool Dracula battle though.
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I love cotm... but having a slow walk... as opposed to have a slow run?
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Eww, CotM. It's like a more generic version of SotN
Good god how is that even possible ;D ?
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Good god how is that even possible ;D ?
I imagine the team looked at SotN and thought, "Well, people sure like this game, but we don't have the talent or budget to do a real sequel. So we'll just make everything really dark, so no one will ever know! Can we get Ayami Kojima back?"
"Sorry, out of the budget range!"
"Whatever, I know this guy on DeviantArt who kinda sorta draws like him, its just as good! Speaking of drawing, there's a lot of tiles here. Did we get those tile artists from SotN?"
"Sorry, out of the budget range!"
"Whatever, we can just copy and paste bricks and level motifs throughout the entire game, its just as good! Man, there's an incredible amount of enemy sprites in SotN...did we get thos--"
"Sir, seriously, we don't have th--"
"Yeah yeah yeah, whatever, I gotta a better idea anyway. LIVING ARMORS. LIVING ARMORS EVERYWHERE!"
and so on and so forth :P
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I imagine the team looked at SotN and thought, "Well, people sure like this game, but we don't have the talent or budget to do a real sequel. So we'll just make everything really dark, so no one will ever know! Can we get Ayami Kojima back?"
"Sorry, out of the budget range!"
"Whatever, I know this guy on DeviantArt who kinda sorta draws like him, its just as good! Speaking of drawing, there's a lot of tiles here. Did we get those tile artists from SotN?"
"Sorry, out of the budget range!"
"Whatever, we can just copy and paste bricks and level motifs throughout the entire game, its just as good! Man, there's an incredible amount of enemy sprites in SotN...did we get thos--"
"Sir, seriously, we don't have th--"
"Yeah yeah yeah, whatever, I gotta a better idea anyway. LIVING ARMORS. LIVING ARMORS EVERYWHERE!"
and so on and so forth :P
Cough. Someone will rip you to shreds for that :P.
I don't know, CotM is part of that generation of Castlevania games that enrage me as a 2D game fan because they scream of untapped potential (don't make me start again on Princess Crown/Odin Sphere and the like), but in an environment where most CV games were the exact same thing over and over, CotM absolutely NAILED the mechanics and level design. Its Castle has SotN's on its knees in terms of consistency and atmosphere (sadly, not in size), and the DSS system is still the best subsystem on the handheld CV games IMHO.
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Just wanted to link this:
http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=8100261&publicUserId=5379721 (http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=8100261&publicUserId=5379721)
to explain the relevance of the OS comparisons. IGA has been telling us forever that 2D console Castlevanias would be "too expensive". It's a lie that has to die. We deserve an high quality 2D CV on home consoles.
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Hah.... I never knew Odin Sphere was skeletal animation. But I agree. they do look good. Only problem with them is that if you want to change a stance, you have to draw the sheild/arm/etc again for that angle.
But yea, I've been looking into it. Looks cool, but it's pretty hard to get it looking right.
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Hah.... I never knew Odin Sphere was skeletal animation. But I agree. they do look good. Only problem with them is that if you want to change a stance, you have to draw the sheild/arm/etc again for that angle.
But yea, I've been looking into it. Looks cool, but it's pretty hard to get it looking right.
Castlevania could easily get away with just fluid handdrawn animation a la Street Fighter 3. Imagine a new Castlevania title with a 2D style inspired by Gabriel's travelbook animation. Watercolor background, 60 fps. Glorious.
They just need to have the guts to do it.
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Castlevania could easily get away with just fluid handdrawn animation a la Street Fighter 3. Imagine a new Castlevania title with a 2D style inspired by Gabriel's travelbook animation. Watercolor background, 60 fps. Glorious.
They just need to have the guts to do it.
*Drools* that......would....be....amazing. Sigh we will never get something like that though, I doubt anyone at Konami has the vision.
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Hah.... I never knew Odin Sphere was skeletal animation. But I agree. they do look good. Only problem with them is that if you want to change a stance, you have to draw the sheild/arm/etc again for that angle.
But yea, I've been looking into it. Looks cool, but it's pretty hard to get it looking right.
It's actually a bit easier than that. Yes, you have to redraw that particular piece from a slightly different angle, but the way the artists do it is they actually have a spritesheet for that one part, with an anchor point. It may sound complicated or difficult, but in Muramasa they have a sprite for, say, shoulderpads in a boss's armor. The rotation and scaling is done on-the-fly so there's no redrawing, but there IS redrawing when there's another different animation, one that would require such shoulderpad to be, say, showing a radically different angle. However, the overall work for these details is easier to do than redrawing the entire body (which would be what you would have to do in traditional animation), and also allows customization of such body parts by having one replace it in the same spot.
Although I'm not all that fond of the technique, Odin Sphere and Muramasa have shown that it makes for some brilliant-looking animations. Those games have very low level design, though... it's usually just a long corridor in which enemies randomly show up. Castlevania has the whole platforming aspect. I suppose that if CV did it that way, it would end up looking like the beautiful backgrounds of Donkey Kong Country, with the designs of CV, and the animation style of Muramasa.
Now THAT, plus some CV rockin' music, would make for a great CV title. ;)
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None of that has anything to do with sprite being skeletal though >.>
Long corridors or not, it's still an amazing looking game. I'd ahve play Muramasa if it weren't for the swords breaking so damn much.
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Actually it does. The anchor points are connected to a virtual 'skeleton' of an object, like a hero or a boss and his elbows, knees, and shoulders, and animating the object is as easy as animating those joints, and only changing the sprites of the sections when it's necessary.
It's the way the older paper marionettes used to be made. And it's sort of the way the Armors of the latest SotN-style games do it. Certainly Galamoth and Final Guard do this, only they're all slow and clunky and the pieces do not get redrawn or scaled, only rotated and moved (it seems). This means CV has already done it before... just not on the scale of OdinSphere and Muramasa.
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The 64 games are always unfairly bashed. LoD especially is quite good and easily surpasses both of the repetitive PS2 games. The atmosphere and dark environments were great, and the gameplay felt like a natural evolution from the classic 2D games. Apparently its popular to bash these games because a lot fans seem to scorn anything not made by their beloved IGA.
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The 64 games are always unfairly bashed. LoD especially is quite good and easily surpasses both of the repetitive PS2 games. The atmosphere and dark environments were great, and the gameplay felt like a natural evolution from the classic 2D games. Apparently its popular to bash these games because a lot fans seem to scorn anything not made by their beloved IGA.
I can't even count the things wrong about this post.
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n64 cvs raped mah moms
We fucking get it!
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I wish they would put the N64 'vanias on Virtual Console. I never got around to playing them, but I would very much like to. The videos I've seen of it look good, so I never really understood the hate. Anyone care to elaborate where it comes from?
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Actually it does.
I meant this... obviously I was not good at meaning it since you did say a whole lot more.
Those games have very low level design, though... it's usually just a long corridor in which enemies randomly show up. Castlevania has the whole platforming aspect
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I wish they would put the N64 'vanias on Virtual Console. I never got around to playing them, but I would very much like to. The videos I've seen of it look good, so I never really understood the hate. Anyone care to elaborate where it comes from?
Well, I liked these games a lot (even more so in recent years), but here are the general complaints. The 3D camera can be problematic at times (though not unmanageable as pressing usually "R" usually centers it, and the problems aren't nearly as frequent as reported), there are slower puzzle and survival-horror elements alongside action and platforming (which people didn't expect in CV at the time), and the controls have a certain weight to them like the NES/SNES days that people consider "clunky" (no magical double-jumps or floating). Also, people claim that they didn't maximize the visual power of the N64 (which is a bit of an exaggerated and unfair statement). Oh, and there was backlash over the few "skeletons on motorcycles" in the game, since it took place during the Industrial Revolution (though, this isn't the only time CV has messed with technology that doesn't match the timeline). Really, the biggest backlash is from the fact that this game wasn't "SotN Part 2 in 3D." People got used to Metroidvania-style, and were surprised when the N64 games took the series in a new direction (stage-based 3D, but with a mixture of puzzles, exploration, action, survival-horror suspense, and tricky/heavy platforming). Honestly, these N64 games have A LOT of the missing ingredients lacking in the more recent 3D attempts. In the fundamentals of actually having challenging jumping hazards alongside whip-cracking action, these N64 games delivered in spades. I wish they would get an VC release, or maybe be put on a collection disc.
Here's a list, re-posted/expanded, of some of the N64's positive/innovative features:
*Multiple unique characters (up to four in LoD, two in CV64) with alternate levels/bosses
*Full 3D gameplay (ala Mario 64, so it's not "on-rails")
*Multiple endings based on performance
*Level Design features spatial depth (vertical and horizontal--not flat hallways)
*day-and-night cycles with time-sensitive events (like Simon's Quest)
*Weather effects (rain, lightning, moving clouds, and "fog"--the last one likely being a graphical shortcoming that actually helped)
*Dynamic, real-time lighting (next to candles, for instance)
*spot-on atmosphere
*death-defying platforming of all sorts (including ledge grabbing).
*environmental/enemy hazards (medusa heads, spikes, guillotines, buzz-saws, cannons).
*innovative survival-horror/suspense elements
*Vampires that pretend to be human and vampires as regular enemies besides bosses
*status changes, including poison and vampirism
*manageable questing with inventory items (meat, keys, cards, cure ampules, etc)
*interesting, involving plot (characters like Rosa, Vincent, Renon, Malice, Henry, etc)
*3D in-game cinemas
*Some voicing
*Unlockable alternate costumes
*Long and short-ranged attacks (IE: whip + sword)
*upgradable sub-weapons (in LoD)
*There is a useful slide and duck/crawl play mechanic
*Diverse mix of old and new enemies in 3D
(As an aside, it's worth noting that certain Beta video elements didn't get into either game like swinging over gaps with the whip; but it shows that minds were in the right place)
PS: Gametrailers Part IV is now up: Part IV: Procession of Portability - The Castlevania Retrospective (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/part-iv-the-castlevania/705742) (time to watch)
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I was surprised to learn that Circle of the Moon was in fact the first Castlevania to sell over 1 million copies? Which makes me wonder if that means that CotM is the best-selling game in the series still? I doubt that neither of the following games outsold it. Funny, that.
Also, Aria of Sorrow was the least successful game of the GBA trilogy, sales-wise.
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The art design was also a massive problem for me. I'm not referring to Kojima's artwork (another "It does for me but I can live without" thing) but to the actual game graphics and environments. Those games looked like a disco show. Way too bright, way too colorful, way too "pop". I sometimes wonder if that is what IGA sees when he designs the 2D games, and we get somewhat gothic atmospheres just because of the technical limitations of the hardware.
woah slow down babe
loi and cod were both much more duller and muted in colors compared to any 2D Castlevania, even scviv. sciv is more muddy in color than muted. cod is especially exceedingly duller in colors than los. the only colorful thing in cod were those god awful pop ups and splash effects. there's a far stronger value in saturation in a lot of los's levels, like the early ones and the necromancer's abyss. the teals and oranges in the castle chapters are fairly strong too. but that's okay, color is okay so it's good for los. the intricate richness of los's environments are brought out by them. makes it bold, etc. instead of cod-gray. gothic is more about intricate details than color anyway.
also cotm just had a darker color palette, but its environments weren't necessarily more gothic than any of its predecessors. you know, with most of its backgrounds being variations of just bricks.
why did cotm sell so much
it had really boring empty and hallway level design and clunkiness that wasn't appropriately fitted for the game. specifically, double tap to run. then again, it had DRAGON ZOMBIES.
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I'm surprised by the Aria's sales. because I really liked that game.
CotM's sales made me happy though, as I'm a fan.
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I was surprised to learn that Circle of the Moon was in fact the first Castlevania to sell over 1 million copies?
According to VGCharts, Castlevania 64 is the best-selling game! :o ;D http://www.vgchartz.com/worldtotals.php?name=castlevania&publisher=&console=&genre=&minSales=0&results=50&sort=Total (http://www.vgchartz.com/worldtotals.php?name=castlevania&publisher=&console=&genre=&minSales=0&results=50&sort=Total)
(I think CotM's success was tied to the GBA launch and it being the first true successor to the SotN style). I liked CotM a lot at the time, and still think its blending of hard, old-school action with Metroidvania style was a better blending than most (or all) Metroidvanias. I liked its art direction, too.
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fun fact: Circle of the Moon features the infamous "Skeleton Medalist"
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv119%2Fc0mbat%2Fsprites%2Fskeletonmedalist.png&hash=192b6077564aa67610a7f32726d2c7e4e8d7cbbd)
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cotm goes for the gold
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The pros and cons of N64 Castlevanias
Wow. A lot more info there than I expeced. :D Thanks though! They don't sound too bad at all. Hopefully, I'll get to play them someday....
What if we added all of the various Cv1 remakes? Would that make Cv1 the best selling game? Or the several available versions of SotN?
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According to VGCharts, Castlevania 64 is the best-selling game!
VGChartz is not the most reliable source unfortunately. It often completely ignores entire regions, especially PAL sales for some games. With Circle of the Moon, they only have the sales for Japan, so I honestly wouldn't use VGChartz as proof at all. I strongly believe CotM sold better than CV64, but I definitely think CV64 sold a lot too. VGChartz do seem to have improved in the last couple of years, but they really have no clue about older games.
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CVLOS is the best selling game in spain for three weeks in a row, VgChartz doesn't count Spain, for example.
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CVLOS is the best selling game in spain for three weeks in a row, VgChartz doesn't count Spain, for example.
Are you sure? I think the numbers for LOS are quite accurate actually, it has the sales from across Europe which should include the entire continent, shouldn't it? The chart with software sales haven't been updated since october 16th, but I know for a fact that the game was near the top of the swedish charts too, albeit for a short while.
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Yeah you have a point, I think we'll have to wait until Konami's fiscal results in february :P
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Wow. A lot more info there than I expeced. :D Thanks though! They don't sound too bad at all. Hopefully, I'll get to play them someday....
What if we added all of the various Cv1 remakes? Would that make Cv1 the best selling game? Or the several available versions of SotN?
One last note about the N64 games: If you do get a chance to play them, don't expect perfection; they are rough around the edges and are limited by the technology of the time. But all that said, they have a lot going for them as you saw I noted.
As for CV1 remakes or SotN versions being the best-sellers, hard to say. They might be up there, though.
As for Retrospective Part IV:
CotM: then again, it had DRAGON ZOMBIES.
Exactly. How is that not awesome? :D And that huge goat-monster thing in the cathedral was crazy. And the Camilla boss was really out there on the art direction. (I know you're not a big fan of CotM, but I just wanted to note that it also had a nice soundtrack, and I liked how the game stages advanced via new moves in what somehow seemed like a more natural way to me than most Metroidvanias).
...As I look back at all this portable action, I realize how CV wouldn't have survived without these entries. Ironic. Also, despite that things got repetitive around the time of DS, there still were a lot of interesting tidbits along the way. I still haven't played OoE because I was burned out on IGA at the time, but I do intend to track that down and play it eventually; its conceptual art direction looks great (best since CotM, IMO) and the new map and NPCs intrigue me.
One other thing that surprises me is how polished and creative Belmont's Revenge looks despite its age, and how there's charm to The Adventure yet, as well. (The retrospective did a poor time explaining Rebirth, as it was a re-imagining more than a remake). Now, I don't know what went wrong with Legends. It has a lot of good bosses and stage ideas in theory, and Sonya's pretty cool, but the whole thing comes across as tedious and mediocre. It was one of the first CV games I bought when I decided to get back into the series, so it worked well enough at the time. But even then, it was underwhelming. It does have one of the best/freshest re-imaginings of Bloody Tears, though, in its stage 1 theme. I find it funny how IGA started to throw things out left and right. I think he decided some could come back in the end? I forget. I couldn't believe that he never continued with Leon after setting things up with LoI. Maybe some traction would have been made. Oh well.
SALES NUMBERS & LORDS OF SHADOW:
VGChartz is not the most reliable source unfortunately. It often completely ignores entire regions, especially PAL sales for some games. With Circle of the Moon, they only have the sales for Japan, so I honestly wouldn't use VGChartz as proof at all. I strongly believe CotM sold better than CV64, but I definitely think CV64 sold a lot too. VGChartz do seem to have improved in the last couple of years, but they really have no clue about older games.
Good points. I just noticed it and was surprised. And a part of me thought it was possible given the fact that it was one of the last socially "mainstream" Castlevania games before the series went totally niche in the 2000s. CV64 was riding off the buzz of SotN and the fact that this was a return to CV's "home" Nintendo console where #IV was. Either LoD or CotM are the extreme cutoff points of CV being remotely relevant. After that, for better or for worse, it was just known as "Igarashi's series of good portable games and occasional, unnoticed 3D games" :-\ (No disrespect to IGA, though).
Getting to LoS...even if its sales are good, they're going to be deceiving. Some of it is brand loyalty, some of it curiosity, and some of it (I've heard around the net) may be European natives wanting to support the home team (Mercury Steam). Myself, it was combination of points one and two. It wasn't a case of "this game has me totally convinced, I need a pre-order." Really, my curiosity of this "reboot" and the hunger for a new 3D Castlevania are what pulled me in.
But what I'm getting at is that there may not have been "tons" of newcomers from the God of War, Devil May Cry, Wii Sports ;) or "fill in the blank" crowds, as intended. And because this is a "reboot," it may have gained some extra curiosity sales that it won't repeat going forward with the same formula. In summery, I think it'll probably do decent numbers, but that those numbers won't be for the reasons some might think and won't guarantee sustainability.
(Hope you all liked by infamous blocks of text! ;D)
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Oh, I found the giant goat boss boring, but I'll agree with the music. The original tracks were excellent. The scale in CoTM is pretty much its defining asset. How expansive it seems, dwarfing the characters, the echoes in voices. Its "scale" is probably only beaten by LoS. As for throwing things around, IGA's really just keeping a tradition. Castlevania has always been about numerous different people against a single foe. It was never truly about the protagonist character in any of them, besides, say, Simon. It was never about a Belmont, but the Belmonts. It seems like IGA is just slowly piecing things together story-wise. It isn't so much a convoluted story as it is just empty. I'm guessing it's because of the rate the games were released, IGA worried about having space to tell that story. It's a tad frustrating, but maybe it's better that way so we don't get story crammed down our throats when the games don't even do them well. I mean, even LoS had nice presentation, but its story was really lacking despite all the added details.
I'm thinking LoS will garner good sales though. I mean, apparently it didn't have that big of a budget, so it won't be that hard to profit from it, right? It's already apparently selling well so. There seems to be a pretty good reception towards it from people who aren't really fans. Its appeal is kinda all around the place, lol. It attracts some fans, it repulses others, it attracts non-fans, but then others are just disinterested. los you are so
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I think the big goat kinda looks like Pan.
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pan is actually a fanservice nod to my fan character named pan.
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I can't even count the things wrong about this post.
Nothing wrong with people having OPINIONS, but apparently you can't seem to handle the concept of people having one different then yours.
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Indeed.
However, this thread is also important with regards to that:
Clicky (http://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/index.php?topic=1260.0)
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Indeed.
However, this thread is also important with regards to that:
Clicky (http://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/index.php?topic=1260.0)
This kind of takes on a new meaning with LoS' release. "Don't feed the trolls." lol. Or maybe better yet, don't feed the ghouls.
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^^^ Don't feed the Swamp Trolls!
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It's actually a bit easier than that. Yes, you have to redraw that particular piece from a slightly different angle, but the way the artists do it is they actually have a spritesheet for that one part, with an anchor point. It may sound complicated or difficult, but in Muramasa they have a sprite for, say, shoulderpads in a boss's armor. The rotation and scaling is done on-the-fly so there's no redrawing, but there IS redrawing when there's another different animation, one that would require such shoulderpad to be, say, showing a radically different angle. However, the overall work for these details is easier to do than redrawing the entire body (which would be what you would have to do in traditional animation), and also allows customization of such body parts by having one replace it in the same spot.
Although I'm not all that fond of the technique, Odin Sphere and Muramasa have shown that it makes for some brilliant-looking animations. Those games have very low level design, though... it's usually just a long corridor in which enemies randomly show up. Castlevania has the whole platforming aspect. I suppose that if CV did it that way, it would end up looking like the beautiful backgrounds of Donkey Kong Country, with the designs of CV, and the animation style of Muramasa.
Now THAT, plus some CV rockin' music, would make for a great CV title. ;)
That's exactly the point. All those games suffered from very low budget, something Konami would be able to work around. And CV would need CREATIVE level design, instead of corridor repetition (yeah, it sounds silly considering how much CV is accused of being about corridors right now, but try to look past the Metroidvanias).
A CV game made with such an high quality 2D art would be a serious heavyweight, and possibly a groundbreaking title.
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The last part of the retrospective seems exciting, going through all the games in chronological order and all that. I like how they talk about forgotten stories that are now reclaimed while showing footage from CotM.
yay for canon
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Hahah it reminded me how annoying the music in Harmony of Dissonance was, it's like the used Gameboy Color technology to compose it. Makes me want to get out Aria of Sorrow, which I shall.
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Aw man, making sense of the CV timeline. I hope they had the CV Dungeon website open at all times formatting that one!
And because HoD uses so much colors and shit on the art direction and the graphics, the sound suffered terribly, as you see from all the janky tunes that game had. They also still had that "bigger = better" mantra with the castle design. I swear, one time I came back to the game after a week, loaded up my save, and had NO idea WTF I was suppose to be going. I'm glad they finally learned that bigger =/= better with AoS, which in my opinion has the tightest and best designed castle in the entire series(Yes, better than SotN, I said it).
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People stopped listening to you by now, so you can keep on saying it. ;) :P
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that was such a cop out excuse by iga. the game obviously does not have that much superior graphics over aos. the most it has over aos is a few instances of additive blending with the light.
i am pretty sure the lost feeling in hod was intentional. you know, with how the game actually focused more on exploration than the others. the placement of dracula's body parts are evidence of this sensibility. that said, i still prefer the tightness of aos's castle. i guess.
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Part 5 is going to be very interesting.
I was kinda disappointed they only mentioned ReBirth for 5 seconds, it deserved it's own review.
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I was kinda disappointed they only mentioned ReBirth for 5 seconds, it deserved it's own review.
I agree. Also, all they said was; "blah blah Adventure was revisited in a remake on the Virtual Console. It had two additional levels and also included subweapons."
Hm. That is actually kinda misleading.
Wouldn't it be appropriate to at least mention that the remake is a completely new game that has very little, if anything, to do with the original? It would've taken them 4 seconds to just say that. But maybe that's just me...
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THE FINAL PART
THE TIMELINE
AW SHIT SON
Part V: Konami's Curse - The Castlevania Retrospective (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/part-v-the-castlevania/705743)
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Is it bad that I feel that snippet of LoS playing with awesome music would have just made the experience of playing LoS that much better? Why didn't MS just use that? Baaaaaah!
Also; where did those redone sprites of the Belmonts come from? I've seen them all over, I just don't know where they originated.
EDIT: Ah, they're from a Dual Crush in PoR, didn't know that. Thought they were fan made, sadly I no longer own a DS so I didn't make it too far in PoR. :(
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Hey, the timeline made sense. Actually, as a whole, it kind of makes Castlevania more epic as you see this eternal struggle against Dracula.
Is it bad that I feel that snippet of LoS playing with awesome music would have just made the experience of playing LoS that much better? Why didn't MS just use that? Baaaaaah!
Also; where did those redone sprites of the Belmonts come from? I've seen them all over, I just don't know where they originated.
It did seem to make LoS slightly better, yeah. Redone sprites are from a special super-attack in Portrait of Ruin, I believe.
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I wonder why people are still citing the PoR timeline as an argument for CotM and CV64's reinclusion. Though it find me valid proof when taking into account IGA confirming himself they were put back in 2 years later.
Also pretty weird they thought OoS was non-canon when the director of the game said IGA supervised the story in order to put it into the canon. All other information is correct though.
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I was expecting the last chapter to be quite depressing given the title but they managed to pay respect to the things we love about the storyline of the saga without spending too much time nitpicking over the inconsistencies. A great ending to an excellent retrospective.
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I wonder why people are still citing the PoR timeline as an argument for CotM and CV64's reinclusion. Though it find me valid proof when taking into account IGA confirming himself they were put back in 2 years later.
Also pretty weird they thought OoS was non-canon when the director of the game said IGA supervised the story in order to put it into the canon. All other information is correct though.
I thought OoS was never canon. Do you have somewhere that is was said to be canon? (or maybe I'm misinterpreting)
That whole retrospective put things together about as well as they ever could be. (though I did notice that when mentioning Juste's point in the timeline, he said 1476, which was Trevor's) Great series of vid altogether. So loving the fact they honored the music separate of everything else.
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They mention that Sypha's last name was one that "neither Japanese or English could articulate". Uhm ... this is the first I've heard of this. AFAIK, it was always supposed to be a Spanish name. Couple things here;
a. Japanese actually lends itself quite well to Romanian, in terms of sounds/pronunciations.
b. Romanian isn't a terribly difficult language to read, as there are few exceptions.
c. I couldn't find one name that is anywhere near Belnades or Fernandez in Romania.
d. Sypha is probably an incorrect translation then as well, since that isn't a particular Romanian name. But then again, we do have Ralph/Trevor, Grant ... and so on.
So anyone know what the heck they are talking about?
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Fantastic ending to a wonderful retrospective. Great stuff GT.
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Does someone know where I can find the version of Simon's Theme that we can hear at the beginning of the video?
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Does someone know where I can find the version of Simon's Theme that we can hear at the beginning of the video?
Castlevania: The Arcade Music Theme of Simon Belmont (Stage 5 18) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIppwT4M_DM#)
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Castlevania: The Arcade Music Theme of Simon Belmont (Stage 5 18) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIppwT4M_DM#)
Thanks ^^
EDIT: I have watched the complete video now and found many other Track versions that I have never heard though I have many CV soundtracks.
The Tracks at 14:56, 16:18, 17:19, 18:56 and 19:24.
It would be nice if someone could tell me from which sountracks these are.
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Hmm...doesn't Harmony of Despair try to make a story, or is it really just nonsense non-canonical banter?
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Hmm...doesn't Harmony of Despair try to make a story, or is it really just nonsense non-canonical banter?
Both. It happening doesn't impact the main timeline what so ever. It most certainly could have happened in the canon without conflicting with anything. That said, it's a moot point since it doesn't effect anything.
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Both. It happening doesn't impact the main timeline what so ever. It most certainly could have happened in the canon without conflicting with anything. That said, it's a moot point since it doesn't effect anything.
So it's more of less casual multiplayer fun and will never be acknowledged on any kind of timeline, with Judgment being the opposite? :P
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I thought OoS was never canon. Do you have somewhere that is was said to be canon? (or maybe I'm misinterpreting)
Q&A - Order of Shadows (http://uk.wireless.ign.com/articles/814/814655p1.html)
IGN Wireless: How closely are you working with Koji Igarashi for this new title? Was he pretty hands on during the development, or did he just offer some guidance? Did he enjoy the challenge of working on a new platform, or was it outside his expertise?
TR: We met with IGA pretty early on in the development process, he gave his blessing, but also reminded us that the game had to be fun and keep with the spirit of the Castlevania series. [..] IGA took a look at the design, story and script, giving his input and comments as necessary. He was actively involved with ensuring the game was consistent with the current canon.
I believe this proves my claim. Order of Shadows is a gaiden though, just like Judgment, Harmony of Despair etc it has no impact on the overall plot but it is still considered canonical.
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Thanks ^^
EDIT: I have watched the complete video now and found many other Track versions that I have never heard though I have many CV soundtracks.
The Tracks at 14:56, 16:18, 17:19, 18:56 and 19:24.
It would be nice if someone could tell me from which sountracks these are.
They are:
14:56 - "Slash" from CV: Judgment (http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/cv-judgment/music/08-Slash.mp3 (http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/cv-judgment/music/08-Slash.mp3))
16:18 - "Wicked Child" from The Arcade (http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/multi/Music/soundtracks/cvbestmcb/1716%20Wicked%20Child.mp3 (http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/multi/Music/soundtracks/cvbestmcb/1716%20Wicked%20Child.mp3))
17:19 - "Vampire Killer" from Dracula New Classic (http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/multi/Music/soundtracks/dracnewclassics/01.mp3 (http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/multi/Music/soundtracks/dracnewclassics/01.mp3)) Sooooo happy they included that one. Such a great album.
18:56 - "Vampire Killer" from The Arcade (http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/multi/Music/soundtracks/cvbestmcb/1704%20Vampire%20Killer.mp3 (http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/multi/Music/soundtracks/cvbestmcb/1704%20Vampire%20Killer.mp3))
19:24 -"Bloody Tears" from Arcade (http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/multi/Music/soundtracks/cvbestmcb/1709%20Bloody%20Tears.mp3 (http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/multi/Music/soundtracks/cvbestmcb/1709%20Bloody%20Tears.mp3))
And Theme of Simon from Arcade, I have to say....is the best version to date. Considering it's my all-time fav tune, that's saying alot that I like it over Bloodline's version.
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They are:
14:56 - "Slash" from CV: Judgment (http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/cv-judgment/music/08-Slash.mp3 (http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/cv-judgment/music/08-Slash.mp3))
16:18 - "Wicked Child" from The Arcade (http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/multi/Music/soundtracks/cvbestmcb/1716%20Wicked%20Child.mp3 (http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/multi/Music/soundtracks/cvbestmcb/1716%20Wicked%20Child.mp3))
17:19 - "Vampire Killer" from Dracula New Classic (http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/multi/Music/soundtracks/dracnewclassics/01.mp3 (http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/multi/Music/soundtracks/dracnewclassics/01.mp3)) Sooooo happy they included that one. Such a great album.
18:56 - "Vampire Killer" from The Arcade (http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/multi/Music/soundtracks/cvbestmcb/1704%20Vampire%20Killer.mp3 (http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/multi/Music/soundtracks/cvbestmcb/1704%20Vampire%20Killer.mp3))
19:24 -"Bloody Tears" from Arcade (http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/multi/Music/soundtracks/cvbestmcb/1709%20Bloody%20Tears.mp3 (http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/multi/Music/soundtracks/cvbestmcb/1709%20Bloody%20Tears.mp3))
And Theme of Simon from Arcade, I have to say....is the best version to date. Considering it's my all-time fav tune, that's saying alot that I like it over Bloodline's version.
Thank you^^