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The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: cecil-kain on October 06, 2010, 07:40:34 AM

Title: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: cecil-kain on October 06, 2010, 07:40:34 AM
OK -so fan reaction to the game is scattered everywhere, so I'm about to fix that.  If you want to gripe about the game or sing it's praises, here's the place to do so.   Just remember, this is Konami's THIRD ATTEMPT at establishing a 3D Castlevania engine that really works.  If this game fails, we may not see another Castlevania on a home console for a long, LONG time if EVER.  So it's in everyone's interest to be supportive in your words, if not with your dollars.  Let's tell Cox and company what they need to hear.

My opinion
-An in-game mapping system is badly needed.  This lack of one, combined with fixed (and sometimes inconsistent) camera perspectives, become more and more disorienting in the larger stages.

-The QTEs should be OPTIONAL --not scripted.  Perhaps there could be a nice reward for finishing off a boss monster with style, but I should be able to bludgeon that troll into oblivion with my Combat Cross if I want.

-Not everyone wants to pay attention to which button is triangle X O and square all the time.  Please be consistent in button functions.  For example --when pounced by Wargs.

-The tutorials are often ill-timed.  On one hand the newbies are forced to learn essential gameplay skills in the heat of battle, while on the other hand your veteran players get annoyed at the constant onscreen instructions.  May I suggest a training arena (separate from the main game) to learn all these skills.

-Some sort of targeting system would greatly improve combat, I'm shocked that NONE of the 3D Castlevanias have even tried this...  This relates to the fixed camera issue for quite a few players.

And one last thing --I may still be too early in my game, but I sense something missing from the atmosphere...  Something important.  MYSTERY.  Castlevania needs a healthy helping of mystery with its darkness --they go together like peanut butter and jelly.

More to come later....
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on October 06, 2010, 08:06:23 AM
CV64 and LoD have targetting systems with the R button.  It's similar to Zelda's "Z-Targetting", only with the R button (tap to switch targets).

But back on topic:
I completely agree with the post above.  There's no particular way of knowing who you are attacking, although the enemies do cut you a break and attack you in 'old kung-fu' one-at-a-time combat for the most part (at least so far).

The jittery camera?  It's not needed.  I don't need the look of the game to look like there's a jacked-up-on-coffee cameraman following me.  A smooth camera is fine.
The constantly-switching camera angles, coupled with the fact that when the camera angle switches, the controls stay the same (meaning if you are holding UP on the control stick to walk into a room and the camera switches to a side room, but you're still holding UP, you'll walk LEFT instead of UP... it's not a smooth switch from one camera location control to the other)is a bit on the obnoxious side, especially in places like the maze garden.  If there's no in-game map, don't mess with my internal GPS by switching my viewpoint to 'the other size of the room' mid-step and on top of that, mess with my controls in the middle of a sprint.

That's all for now, there'll be more stuff later.  Still a great game, though.  Nice job on Chapters IV and V.  Those feel more CV-like than the earlier stuff (which feels like Pan's Labyrinth).
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: Kale on October 06, 2010, 08:15:03 AM
I'll add more when I beat the game.

But dear lord..... have a controllable camera. The fixed one really annoys me. There are times where the enemies are right next to me, but behind the camera because the camera thinks it's a good thing to zoom in really close to Gabriel.

In game map/minimap would help tremendously. I want to know where I've been and where I can go without looking back and forth to make sure I'm been there already or not.

I also think the absorbing buttons are in an annoying spot, clicking and holding those buttons should never be something that should be used in the heat of battle. EVER.
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on October 06, 2010, 08:19:52 AM
I suppose it was done that way in order to have the control over absorbing Light and Shadow magic...

...but why not just pool them together and auto-absorb 'em?  You already toggle them with L1 and R1 (unless there's some Light/Shadow story element I've missed... on Chapter VII now).

In the early levels you have this film-like framerate which got me used to the look, but in the later levels you have this very silky smooth framerate which leads me to believe that the early levels are either taxing the system too much or were just stylistically done that way.  If I had to choose, I'd go for the smoothness of the framerate of the later levels, rather than the way the early levels are.
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: Kale on October 06, 2010, 08:30:01 AM
I suppose it was done that way in order to have the control over absorbing Light and Shadow magic...

...but why not just pool them together and auto-absorb 'em?  You already toggle them with L1 and R1 (unless there's some Light/Shadow story element I've missed... on Chapter VII now).

Most likely is, but the button scheme for it sucks.
What they should do is have you hold the button to absorb, and press to activate.
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: Munchy on October 06, 2010, 08:36:38 AM
I know this will sound pretty cruel, but thus far the platforming has been brainless. Castlevania has always been about methodical timing with jumps; in this game, once you know how to move, there's no skill required whatsoever. It feels too scripted and automatic.

Also, it was said earlier that there would be few, if any QTEs, that they took away from the game because the player is too busy trying to read which button to hammer. I was excited about this and find that... there are dozens of QTEs so far. What happened?
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: crisis on October 06, 2010, 08:50:58 AM
LoS really starts to pick up at Chapter 4, it loses the "ancient Mayan city" vibe & goes into more gothic territory, which is pretty awesome. My only complaints thus far:

- Camera (although not a huge one, it can be improved upon but most games are like that anyway)
- Cheap deaths (I died more times executing a swing-jump than fighting the enemies/bosses)
- Music (not varied enough)

Otherwise this game rocks. Looking forward to the rest of the game.

I thought it would've been nice if the hooks Gabe latches onto, were designed to look like the "bat-hooks" from SCIV. That would've been pretty neat & a cool homage. Oh well.
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: Kale on October 06, 2010, 08:57:24 AM
I know this will sound pretty cruel, but thus far the platforming has been brainless. Castlevania has always been about methodical timing with jumps; in this game, once you know how to move, there's no skill required whatsoever. It feels too scripted and automatic.

Also, it was said earlier that there would be few, if any QTEs, that they took away from the game because the player is too busy trying to read which button to hammer. I was excited about this and find that... there are dozens of QTEs so far. What happened?

I agree. Platforming is forced. You can't really miss except when you press down at the wrong spot. When you don't have to jump out, you can't jump out. When you can't jump off, you can't jump off... it locks you in, so you have no control, makes me sad.

And I too was disappointed in the number of QTEs, but for the boss fights, they haven't been too annoying or hindering.
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: PFG9000 on October 06, 2010, 09:00:31 AM
I'm only halfway through the second chapter, but so far, the production value just blows me away.  I thought it would be solid, but this is a very, very detailed and polished game.  You can tell a ton of work went into it, there's just little flourishes and extra touches everywhere.

It doesn't feel very Castlevania-ish yet, but I have most of the game to go yet.  So I'm staying optimistic about that.  The only thing I didn't like so far was the boss of the first chapter.  It felt like a blatant rip-off of Shadow of the Colossus.  I know fans speculated about that from the screenshots, but when they throw in stuff like "R2 to Grip" and Navigating-platforms-on-a-moving-boss-while-trying-to-find-the-glowing-runes-which-signify-its-weak-spots...well, it's just too much like SotC.  I don't have an issue with having some gigantic bosses in the game, and I don't even have an issue with climbing them, but this one was just straight out of SotC.
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: Thunderbrand on October 06, 2010, 09:01:41 AM
As I said in the other thread, I'm only in chapter 2 but I'm very happy with this game overall. I only have a few minor gripes:

- When you return to a level to find an item you missed, you have to redo the boss fight if there is one. I had to go back to the Bog to get a gem I missed and was a bit dissapointed having to fight the Swamp Troll again after it took me several times to beat him before. (Thankfully theres no reason to return to the Lake and fight the Ice Titan again.) The one bonus to that is when you redo a level it's a good way to gain EP, plus there are hidden items to find once you acquire new abilities.
- The score only has 20 tracks. The game has 46 levels so I was hoping for a longer score, cuz the music is GREAT!
- I agree with an earlier post that said QTE's should be optional. Sure they make for a good cinematic but sometimes they really interrupt the flow of the fight.
- I also agree that an in-game map system would be helpful. Sometimes it's very hard to tell where the little nooks & small pathways are.
- A free-roaming camera would be nice, not just to see all the enemies but to just stop and pan around and look at the GORGEOUS environments. That said, the fixed camera isn't bad. If you have enemies attacking offscreen, just run a few steps away and re-center yourself until they attack again. No big deal. Plus this helps to get some distance and ready your next attack.

I'll add more to my review as I progress through the game but so far I love it. I think it's well done and very fun to play.
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: cecil-kain on October 06, 2010, 09:02:45 AM
There is something a tad off on jumping from platform to platform --on the other hand I think the grappling functions of the Combat Cross are brilliantly executed.  Also did anyone else get that Grant Danasty vibe while ledge crawling?
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: crisis on October 06, 2010, 09:08:25 AM
The game doesn't feel "Castlevania" in the first few chapters, but once you hit 4 it'll start to show more, trust me.
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: Thunderbrand on October 06, 2010, 09:13:50 AM
The game doesn't feel "Castlevania" in the first few chapters, but once you hit 4 it'll start to show more, trust me.

That seems to be the consensus from those who have gotten that far in the game. Truthfully, I suspected the same thing when I read through the guide. Seeing how the game is laid out, it seems to keep building upon itself and the whole "world" is very vast. This is where the CV2, CV3 and CV4 influences are evident IMO.
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on October 06, 2010, 09:14:25 AM
It really is a beautiful game, though. Very nice..

EDIT:
I hate hate hate hate hate that I can't target floor switches with my abilities.  Supposedly you can FALCON PAWNCH the floor switches, but the ability has to land right on the stupid spot and 9 times out of 10, it doesn't.
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: e105beta on October 06, 2010, 03:38:40 PM
I don't have much of an issue with the camera, unlike most. So far I've been too engrossed to notice the jittery cam, and while the fixed camera can be frustrating because at times I just want to look around, I'm pretty sure the nooks and crannies hidden by the camera are done on purpose. I mean, the hidden rooms in a metroidvania are completely hidden. You stumble upon them by whacking walls in slightly suspicious spots in fits of exploration, not because the game goes "LOOK AT THIS SPOT! SOMETHING IS HIDDEN HERE!". I've noticed the same trend with the hidden rooms in LoS. You see a spot and go: "Hmm, I can't see the top of that ledge. Is there a body there?" or "Those rocks look suspicious".

As for the map comments, I would have liked a map on the bog level, and in Agharta, though with words like labyrinth being thrown around in-game, I have to wonder if the "lost in a maze" feeling was intentional.

The only time I had trouble with the auto-targeting was when I was fighting Malphas. I'd go to strike her, and Gabriel would pull a 180 and attack the witch-child behind me. A bit annoying when you're running on almost no health and need to kill her as quickly as possible. Other than that, Gabriel's whip strikes tend to be large enough to accomplish what I want, though knives tend to fly off at random enemies sometimes.

Maybe it's just because I'm playing at knight, but while I see a use for every single combo, I can't get some of them out (heavy combo 9x, I'm looking at you) because I need to dodge. I don't mind it, as it keeps the fights feeling fast-paced and makes me feel awesome when I pull off a long combo, it just makes me wonder if it could have been done a different way.

Also, somethings don't need QTEs. I'm extremely lenient on QTE usage and thought the button mashing enhanced the struggle feel when you're pounced by a warg, but the QTEs where I'm mashing a button to pull down a bridge with no enemies around and no visible action from Gabriel feel forced. I mean, I got the stake upgrade, just stab the cross in there and open the gate. The only thing failing the QTE is going to make me do is have to start over. Unless there are enemies I have to race against, it's just pointless.

I also loved using the chain whip for platforming. Some of the best moments were when I was running on a wall, jumping off, the hooking to another grip point. It felt realistic but fun at the same time. It could be fine-tuned a bit, however. Sometimes I felt like I was dying not because the section was particularly hard, but because the game let me descend to low with my chain, then I dropped off and died. An easy fix would be to just make Gabriel stop at a certain limit, and if you want to drop, you drop like you would off a ledge. Also, more collapsing platforms would do the game good. I was never bored while platforming, but I felt like most of the segments were lacking a sense of urgency and timing that most platforming games have.

And maybe another suggestion for the next game, if it ever comes: make a downside to the grab. While yes, combat gets boring when all you do is grab and I don't find myself doing it too often, I tend to accept a bit of boredom if it comes with the instant kills that the grab provides after dying 10 times on a group of gremlins trying to fight them legitly.

On the plus side, the game is amazing, and I love it. It's a very pretty game, and the atmosphere is excellent. While even I'll admit that it didn't largely feel like Castlevania until Wygol village, I didn't really mind. Keeps things feeling fresh.

The AI is great, which has become rare for these type of games. I loved fighting Cornell because it seemed like he'd never give me the attack I could counter. If I expected a blockable attack, he'd do an unblockable, and if I was in a combo he'd do a shockwave attack. If anything, the rising strike ability is the most useful in Gabriel's entire arsenal.

I say congrats, and I'm looking forward to the DLC.
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: e105beta on October 06, 2010, 03:44:07 PM
Whoops, quoted instead of modified.
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: cecil-kain on October 06, 2010, 06:00:17 PM

Maybe it's just because I'm playing at knight, but while I see a use for every single combo, I can't get some of them out (heavy combo 9x, I'm looking at you) because I need to dodge. I don't mind it, as it keeps the fights feeling fast-paced and makes me feel awesome when I pull off a long combo, it just makes me wonder if it could have been done a different way.

AH!  That reminds me!  I started my game on warrior mode *default* --and let me just say...  Respawning with half of that tiny life bar was a surprise rivaling the cheapest moments in Castlevania history.  If you're on a mission to sell a game to mainstream gamers, something like that could break the deal.  Save that nonsense for the replay --not a default setting...  I shudder to think --what surprises are hiding in Palladin mode?
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: jediblaster on October 06, 2010, 06:39:35 PM
Maps?  Nah, unless your fetish is SOTN style games only, then I can see where a map would tickle your toes.  However, the World map and Chapter maps we get are cool.  What would be nice is a progression chart ala CV1-IV though.  Probably IV as that is the best of them IMHO.
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: Sir Hanksta on October 06, 2010, 09:17:23 PM
Great game. The first five chapters were kinda different, not bad to me, just not what you would expect from a CastleVania game, but after that its all I thought it would be. Sure they could improve on some things, but you could say that about most games. frame rates, fixed camera, yada, yada, yada, I could care less about all that BS as long as its a enjoyable experience. I think its fantastic. The biggest gripe I have is I wish they could have had somehow made the sound track more like an original CV soundtrack. Somehow mix in those old CV tunes a little more.  I give it a 9/10.
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: X on October 06, 2010, 10:04:07 PM
I don't really need to add anything of gripe-value here since it was all covered by everyone else.  :) I'm only at the second chapter and it doesn't feel like any CV game I've ever played. It's got more of a Celtic feel to it and why does Gabriel have an Irish accent when he's Romanian?? And as for that stupid Troll fight...ugggggh!!! How many times did I die just trying to figure out that stupid QTE!?! And they didn't even have the nerve to tell me which button to press after I've latched onto that thing! I'll just have to keep hacking at the game till I come to the later chapters and see if this title is really worth the price I paid. But yeah... That frozen lake battle was way too SotC. But at least ir wasn't as difficult as the troll boss.

-X
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: Kingshango on October 07, 2010, 12:57:58 AM
Im at chapter 8, near Carmilla and im loving the game, but I do have some complaints:

Please for the love of all things good and holy release a patch for the option of a moveable camera. The fixed camera angle is ok but when your in combat and you can't see who's hitting you from offscreen is a pet peeve of mine. And the camera has killed me many times during platforming segemnts.

Im not totally against QTE's but they should have been optional against bosses, I know you wann keep up with the competition but the best way to do that is to do the opposite of what the competition does. (and by competition I mean GOW, DI, Bayo etc)

The music needed to be varied. I heard the same themes over and over again and while they're good and do set the mood of the game I just wish the score was more hummable and memorable like Castlevania music usually is.(Now im not saying put in Bloody Tears for the millionth time, just saying the soundtrack should be up to par with other Castlevania's) Either get Oscar to make more memorable soundtracks or get someone else like Jasper Kyd to do the music for the sequel. (I know I can't believe im complaining about the music in a Castlevania game. )

Other than that Im enjoying the game and give my congrat's to MercurySteam.
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: corneliab on October 07, 2010, 01:11:16 AM
I hate hate hate hate hate that I can't target floor switches with my abilities.  Supposedly you can FALCON PAWNCH the floor switches, but the ability has to land right on the stupid spot and 9 times out of 10, it doesn't.

Eh? I could swear I noticed a slight homing effect when hitting floor switches. Never had a problem with that at all.
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: e105beta on October 07, 2010, 01:31:50 AM
Quote
Camera complaints

I don't entirely get the avid intensity for this one. I've really had very little problems/gripes with the camera. If anything, I've been praising it on how excellent it's been making the battles and platforming look.

To each his own I guess.
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: Kale on October 07, 2010, 01:35:33 AM
I'm big on controlling your camera, hence is one reason I like Ninja Gaiden more than Devil May Cry and Bayonetta.
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: cecil-kain on October 07, 2010, 06:15:54 AM
I don't entirely get the avid intensity for this one. I've really had very little problems/gripes with the camera. If anything, I've been praising it on how excellent it's been making the battles and platforming look.

To each his own I guess.

I think most of the camera complaints are boss related, actually.  The camera always seems to be well-place for the major platforming and wall crawling moments...  Always lovin that Grant Danasty feeling.  :-)
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: Zobias on October 07, 2010, 06:41:24 AM
I think my only grip with LOS is the fixed Camera System you look left while you get hit from the right...
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: MarquisX on October 07, 2010, 08:13:14 AM
The only complaint is maybe the soundtrack could be a little more varied. But it's such a small gripe since everything in this game is so much fun. The Castlevania feel REALLY hits when you reach Wygol Village. Damn- anyone who says this doesn't feel like Castlevania needs to keep playing before they put there foot in their mouth- staking vampires with Patrick Stewart is cooler than most Castlevania experiences I had! As for the camera angle- I don't see the gripe- only a few times I wished I could control it, otherwise it's fine. I'm kinda glad it doesn't thinking back to CoD which I didn't like. I think it's best to save all complaints until the game is completed. I see people rating the game after 1 or 2 chapters which really doesn't give the game justice- that was just a warm up to the gothic horror that is coming up.
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: Tobias on October 07, 2010, 09:40:37 AM
The only complaint is maybe the soundtrack could be a little more varied. But it's such a small gripe since everything in this game is so much fun. The Castlevania feel REALLY hits when you reach Wygol Village. Damn- anyone who says this doesn't feel like Castlevania needs to keep playing before they put there foot in their mouth- staking vampires with Patrick Stewart is cooler than most Castlevania experiences I had! As for the camera angle- I don't see the gripe- only a few times I wished I could control it, otherwise it's fine. I'm kinda glad it doesn't thinking back to CoD which I didn't like. I think it's best to save all complaints until the game is completed. I see people rating the game after 1 or 2 chapters which really doesn't give the game justice- that was just a warm up to the gothic horror that is coming up.

Completely agree.  Coming around the mountain pass and having the castle looking over the village in the distance was a breathtaking moment that seemed to encapsulate exactly what you'd expect the castle to look like from a distance.  And all the little nods, winks, and character re-inventions help keep it within the bounds we know and love.  I particularly like the explanation of vampiric "monster forms".

Along with wishing that I could move the camera, if only to enjoy the incredible scenery (though I realize that it would make platforming much, much harder), I kind of wish that Gabriel was a little more talkative.

I realize that he's grim and angry, and running on fumes, but he's also our main character.  It isn't a big complaint, since it matches basically every other character in the setting (with the exception of a very small handful), but a little more out of him would be nice, considering they got a great actor to do his voice.

Though I will admit, I do find his silence to be more about his character and state of mind, whereas I simply took it to be a concession to the technology being used for everything else.  But the pacing and story are such that his unwillingness to talk really seems more about his focus that anything else.

So I'm still on the fence as to if it's an unnatural break from the gaming environment or a good characterization.  It is growing on me though.
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: MarquisX on October 07, 2010, 10:54:11 AM
I just read the Jim Sterling hates LoS and compared it to Twilight. He's also pimping Enslaved (I hear he tweets to the producer of Enslaved). What a fat fuck who doesn't know shit if he thinks this is like twilight. Might as well say Ninja Gaiden is like the Karate Kid. How does this asshole have a job?
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: Munchy on October 07, 2010, 01:39:32 PM
I'm definitely warming up to the game the more I play it. I can't shake the feeling that it's Castlevania: The Game of the Movie, but it's not a bad game.

I mentioned my problem with the platforming before (it's way too scripted and decidedly un-Castlevania; hell, Mario Galaxy's platforming is closer to Castlevania than this). The music... Kurt mentioned this on another forum and I think he has a great point. The music sounds the goddamn same no matter where you are. It really goes a long way to giving it the feel of a licensed game, I hate to say. It merely gets the job done; they might as well have taken any given generic ass Hans Zimmer soundtrack and stuck it in here. If there's a sequel, I'd say save the money from using an orchestra and instead have the composer study some Stravinsky.

I guess the main thing that puts me off about the game is that it revels way too much in being like a movie. It should be happy to be a game.

Also, I'll be happy if I never see another goddamned shockwave attack again.


Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: Apolake on October 07, 2010, 01:41:45 PM
I wish they would minimize some of the npc dialogues, especially with Claudia and the bosses.  I feel that they are nagging and trolling me to death.  Dialogue on loop kinda dented some of the feeling while playing this game, it's a just minor gripe of mine.
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: Munchy on October 07, 2010, 02:01:28 PM
I wish they would minimize some of the npc dialogues, especially with Claudia and the bosses.  I feel that they are nagging and trolling me to death.  Dialogue on loop kinda dented some of the feeling while playing this game, it's a just minor gripe of mine.

Seriously. I wanted to use the stake upgrade on Claudia's skull when she kept mouthing off about fucking crystals. SHUT THE FUCK UP BITCH! OR SEND YOUR DAMN ARMOR OVER HERE TO HELP ME FIGHT! I think Gabe SPOILER stabbed her in his sleep END SPOILER because of this too. He just won't admit it.

I'm going to post Kurt Kalata's criticisms here, because if anyone deserves to be heard, it's the creator of the awesome and expansive Dungeon.

"Castlevania is about rhythm. Think about the way, in the older Castlevania games, how you jumped, how you timed your whip slashes to hit the candles, that pleasant little sound when you grabbed a heart. In the post-Symphony games, the rhythm is still there, but it's much less strict. Every action flows beautifully together. There's still consistent actions to attack candles and grab stuff. The PS2 games had this, to an extent. Lords of Shadows does not have this. It can't, because it runs at a sub-30 frame rate. It feels choppy, discordant.

There are items to pick up. Tons of them. Tons of things to hit and destroy. Technically many are meaningless, but each gives a pleasant sound effect and makes a number go up, somewhere. Lords of Shadows has...well, the whole hearts system that has defined practically every game is gone, so all you get are daggers, at least so far.

The platforming. The platforming does not require timing. It requires hitting the jump or whip button when the game tells you to. It works exactly like Uncharted. It was not a problem there, because Uncharted is not about platforming challenges, it is about the feeling of scaling massive walls and dangling for your life. Castlevania is not. It is about, I'd better make sure that I've positioned myself correctly and timed myself correctly so I don't overshoot things, and time my attacks so a medusa head does not hit me.

Many of these ebb and flow in each title. The platforming is not part of the Metroidvanias, nor the PS2 games. The exploration and loot hoarding is not part of the classic series. Many are exclusive to the feel of 2D. But there's still a consistency about them. Even the N64 games sort of controlled like the NES games, despite their clumsiness, and not exactly to the game's favor.

The music. The music might be more important than anything, because it is consistent across all titles. Even the worst Castlevania games have some worthwhile soundtracks. (Exception: Legends.) This is...well, it's generic Western orchestral that, while technically pretty decent, thinks that it's in a movie and not a video game. Areas are identified by their soundtrack as much as their visuals. Even intensely boring places like the endless dungeon corridors in Lament, they feel, because I identify instruments and melody. And rhythm. In LoS there is nothing to identify with the forest, besides the birds chirping, and some random chanting, whenever there's something happening. Every area sounds like every other area.

It does not have the monster movie horror theme of the classic series. It does not have the pseudo-anime gothic styles of the Metroidvanias. It has...well, something, and it actually is quite well done. But it's also probably more like Lord of the Rings, if anything, and definitely not Castlevania.

What it does have is a competently executed action game that seems to exist for little reason than to keep the Castlevania name from becoming a total joke. In that respect, it does a pretty decent job, since it is not a potential embarrassment like some of their more recent projects."

Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: crystos on October 07, 2010, 02:44:09 PM
I personally think the game is great. People complained that the game isn;t inside a castle well none of the original vanias with belmonts were entirely in a castle. This game does well with new environs and such..

However!!

Music.. this games music really doesn't evoke feeling the alot of the others

sucks that it's not cannon...

that's pretty much all I have to say  up to his point in the game.
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: Alutwon on October 07, 2010, 09:17:25 PM
Sequel:
Change the music, I want video game music not the score from the dark knight (The music box was my fav part of the game, i wonder why)
Take Chapters 5-8 and make the sequel based on these, ONLY on these.
Stop holding my hand while I'm trying to platform. more whip based platforming too.
Wheres my damn axe and boomerang? (just add a little more from the old Castlevania)

Other than these things MS has made one hell of a game that I thoroughly enjoyed

On second thought MS did just fine, the game is a prequel and a reboot after all and since
(click to show/hide)
certain things have to be omitted.

But still the music could have used more melody and please let go of my hand, I see the ledge.
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: cecil-kain on October 08, 2010, 11:21:13 AM
This game grows on you the more you play it...  Indeed it's growing into its Castlevania shoes nicely...
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: Munchy on October 08, 2010, 11:39:08 AM
This game grows on you the more you play it...  Indeed it's growing into its Castlevania shoes nicely...

I agree. Saw my brother get to the second dark forest area and cheered out loud when a Headless Burrower came up.
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: Thunderbrand on October 08, 2010, 11:53:03 AM
none of the original vanias with belmonts were entirely in a castle.

CV1.
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on October 08, 2010, 12:12:34 PM
Harmony of Dissonance, too.
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: Dracgou on October 08, 2010, 04:28:41 PM
Music:  look at gothic horror music and horror music in general ( 70s horror music)

Wojciech Kilar - Vampire Hunters ( Bram stroker's Dracula)

Dracula by Wojciech Kilar (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E-yYkVQmg8#)





Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: eternal night on October 08, 2010, 10:17:54 PM
My only real gripe with this game is that I felt it was a little heavy on the puzzles at times. I would of appreciated more open-area combat thrown in instead.
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: e105beta on October 08, 2010, 11:06:09 PM
Music:  look at gothic horror music and horror music in general ( 70s horror music)

Wojciech Kilar - Vampire Hunters ( Bram stroker's Dracula)

Dracula by Wojciech Kilar (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E-yYkVQmg8#)







Wow, that sounds a lot like the Lords of Shadow soundtrack
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: Oralox on October 08, 2010, 11:32:54 PM
I'd like some organ in mah castlevania!
That's whats making this anti-vania

Use this for example
Toccata & Fugue in d minor (BACH, J.S.) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FXoyr_FyFw#)

My only real gripe with this game is that I felt it was a little heavy on the puzzles at times. I would of appreciated more open-area combat thrown in instead.

Yeh whats the deal with that? SCV4 and SOTN never had puzzles to solve, so why should this one?....


but I guess you could consider some parts of cv2 a puzzle.
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: eternal night on October 09, 2010, 12:25:07 AM
I'm not complaining that it had puzzles, as they can obviously provide a nice break from combat. Certainly IGA's 3D attempts could have used more puzzles thrown in. But IMO, parts of this game were very heavy on the puzzles. Some levels you'd finish one, only to find that the start of the next your having to solve another right away. a lot of these puzzles were very well thought out though. kudos on that.

This game just oozes creativity everywhere though! No more cut & paste level design that IGA's team was famous for. After I heard that this game was being dev'd outside of his team, my worries of another castlevania game that had repetitive design were pretty much alleviated.

Take for example, Curse of Darkness. Near the end of the game Dracula's castle appears and it's pretty much devoid of anything "fun" or "creative". It feels very incomplete and rushed. The castle is handled so much better in this game. So much thought and effort was put into it. This is the best it's ever looked and I'm not talking about the 720p aspect of it. Merely the design and architecture.
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: Dracgou on October 09, 2010, 12:30:13 AM
Well anyways, they still should look at 70s horror music  ( more specifically at  Fabio Frizzi's and Goblin's works)

70s horror music

Lucio Fulci Zombie Theme (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39szQy3TcH4#ws)








Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: impulse on October 09, 2010, 01:49:26 PM
I'm not really that far into the game yet, so I'm not going to comment to much on the game as a whole, but there are a few things which are obvious from the get-go.

The game needs a minimap, badly. It's sometimes hard to tell where you're supposed to go. Certain paths seems almost obscured by the fixed camera angles and a minimap would have aliviated this problem immensly.

The fixed camera can also be a troublesome during combat. I think the game would have been better served using a dynamic camera during combat and exploration segments, while retaining the fixed camera for platforming and cinematic sequences.

Lastly, the interface elements seem a bit far spread out. It's hard to get a quick overview when the bars are located in three different corners of the screen. I also think the focus bar could been reduced in size? What's the point of having the runes light up from both sides of the center?

Other than that, I am liking the game a lot. The titan being my favorte part so far.
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: thernz on October 09, 2010, 02:04:42 PM
Instead of more open arena combat areas, I think it could've benefited from more diverse arenas. Like, enemies on different heights and etc. Kinda like the pool of water with the Sword Masters too.
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: Munchy on October 10, 2010, 12:06:19 AM
Well anyways, they still should look at 70s horror music  ( more specifically at  Fabio Frizzi's and Goblin's works)



I agree heavily with this and the organ music sentiment. Also Stravinsky would be a good influence if they go with an orchestra again.
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: Harrycombs on October 10, 2010, 08:21:42 AM
I just finished the game, and I actually really enjoyed it, but there are a few things that need to be addressed.

Spoilers:

Agartha was weird. Why is there an Aztec-like ruin in Romania (Gabe speaks Romanian at the end, so we know generally where it took place)? If you were trying to contrast pagan areas (with Pan) and the more Christian oriented areas at the end, wouldn't it have made more sense to make these areas looks more Greco-Roman? The whole segment with Agartha was really out of place and hurt my enjoyment of the game. In fact the first 3 chapters were very inferior to the rest of the game, it got off to quite a bad start.

The Titans weren't particularly well designed and were annoying. Please don't bring them back if there is a sequel.

Platforming is weird at times. It feels really restricted. For instance, when climbing up a wall using the whip, sometimes you are able to press Square to jump of the wall to get above another obstacle or to get closer to a wall behind you. Why can't you always do this. The fact that you are only allowed to do certain actions when the game wants you to practically tells you exactly what you need to do all the time. Also, sometimes the jumps when you were holding on to ledges controlled poorly, with Gabe just letting go of the ledge instead of the jumping. Also the flashing ledges could get annoying. The hand holding is rather excessive.

The camera was great for getting dramatic shots and generally worked well for platforming. However, a lock on function (like Devil May Cry) would have made focusing on a specific enemy a lot easier and a smarter camera during battle would have made the fighting a lot better. Most of the deaths in combat I found were generally due to poor camera control because the guys killing you were off screen.

The soundtrack was also pretty poor. It never really helped establish atmosphere because the music sounded the same no matter where you were.

Also, just drop the QTEs. They aren't necessary and they aren't fun. If you want to keep similar scenes in the game, just make them cutscenes. Also, the QTEs when grabbing enemies just made me never bother using them unless I had to. Look at how Devil May Cry 4 handled its grab function, it was very fast and served the same purpose.

Other than that, I really loved the game from the Abby onwards. I also really enjoyed the level with the crows and the music box level was very creative and one of the better levels we have seen in a Castlevania game recently.

Overall I really like what MecurySteam did with the game and I hope they make the sequel, but there are still a bunch of flaws in the game that need to be worked out.
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: X on October 11, 2010, 01:39:58 AM
I can totally agree with the above. I'm still not very far into the game (Still in chapter 2). I haven't been playing it all that much either because I feel like I'm grinding my way through the whole time (not in a good way). These current chapters I'm on do nothing to give me that old famillier CV vibe that would force me to stay awake till the wee hours of the morning from playing the game all night. So far it's been way too much SotC (A good game that shouldv'e stayed in the ICO universe and shouldn't have leaked into CV). I will give MercurySteam points for being allowed to ride those giant spiders. Creepy but wicked!

-X
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: Munchy on October 11, 2010, 03:21:21 PM
Here's yet another bit of criticism from Kurt that mirrors some of my complaints about the game:

"Are there any more titan battles in this game? Because I'm at the second one, and if there any more, I'm just going to shelve it. Or maybe just download a save game, if the PS3 will let me. They're so ineptly handled that I really want no part in them. I'm tired of hitting one of them weak spots, then getting to that point where I need to dodge their swipe, but the hit detection is so awful that I end up falling off despite not being anywhere near the danger zone.

Other observations:

-The whole light/dark magic thing, the countering, and the focus gauge is by far the best thing the game has going for it. It provides a good sense of reward for performing well, and it's pretty satisfying to boot. But they tend to falter in practice, because...

-Combat would work better if the larger enemies were actually stunned to an extent, or at least if you could cancel out of moves. I'm sick of unlocking combos and finding them nearly useless against anything but popcorn enemies, because I just keep getting knocked out of them anyway.

-The frame rate is a good indicator of how seriously the developers want me to take their game. It it's 60, then it's about speed, reflexes and skill. If it's 30 or less, it's all about graphics. Guess where Castlevania falls.

-The level design is incredibly counterproductive. The natural inclination to explore and find the hidden stuff is cut down because of all of the invisible walls. Except some of them aren't! It seems entirely at the discretion of the level designer. If you're going to render a hole in that mountain wall, and then not let me go through, then don't render it! They seem to prefer obscuring areas with the set camera angles too. They also make the "run around this area and find these items" quest way too tedious.

-Same goes with the platforming. Sometimes they'll guide with you the glowy ledges, other times it's up to you to figure out which of the identical looking platforms is your goal and which will send you flying into an abyss. At least the penalty for falling is light.

-At one point I walked up to a ledge and the game told me "This route is impassable, go another way." Then why is it there, jackass! Don't just put in pretty scenery, make it functional!

-People are saying this game lasts 15-20 hours? Good GOD this is padded out. This goes back to the whole criticism of modern design sensibilities, but I'd rather a game stick everything in five hours instead of making me through the same types of scenery, defeating the same types of monsters, and every-so-slowly introducing important mechanics. The fighting doesn't even get good until a few hours in. When people dismiss your games for being a shallow button masher because, for the first hour or so, it IS a shallow button masher, then that's an issue.

-In keeping with the frame rate discussion, what the hell is with Western developers and not locking frame rates? There are actually a few scarce times where it dips up into 60s, then the minute anything happens it falls back into the sub-30 range. One part actually triggered quite a headache.

-Did the game seriously just give me a "guide the light with the mirrors" puzzle? I'm not sure if that was more insulting than that one where you need to rotate those circular platforms. This is Castlevania, not The 7th Fucking Guest.

There are just...ugh, so many just LITTLE things wrong that they end up adding into a lot. There's just so much that's unpolished."

Definitely some good points here, especially about the misleading level design and the wonky-ass framerate.
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: Ahasverus on October 11, 2010, 03:55:01 PM
I would like not to feel "scripted jumps". I'll explain them like this:
You play the game, find a big abyss, use a big wolf to pass through it, great.
Replay the stage, now you have double jump, try to play the abyss... an invisible wall hits you WTF?
That's it, I'd like the platforming to be receptive, not scripted, with adaptable physics. The combat is brillaint, the scope is brillaint, the sense of decay is great, I love the first shint stages and I love how the scenery turns to hell itself at the end. The castle was stellar, most atmspheric part of the game.
Please keep with the "explain everything!" tone ;D it's the best thing ever happening to CV. Why is there electricity in the castle? Doctor Frankenstein lived before. Why is Carmilla a Vampire? She loved life and restoring it, her dark side drains life and it's not even living. Why is malphas a giant crow? she casted a spell to restore her body and crows felt attracted to her. BTW I loved how they wrote a little story to each enemy, keep up that Mr Alvarez!

And the most important thing, polish, add... don't cut, a bit. Some people dfidn't like titan fights? Screw it, keep with them, polish them but keep with them. SOme people didn't like daytime areas? Screw it, keep with them if they serve to narrative. The graphis need AA easy or not, do it, even if it takes 6+ months of work, do it. Keep oscar, he's a great composer, make a little more memorable music this time BUT keep the "change song middle stage" tone, I'm tired of 1:30 songs repeating themselves over and over again (I'm looking at you Castlevania pre-LOS). Music has to serve narrative, it's not intented to go to everyone's iPod, it myst to be there serving the game. Also, keep the music-less moments, they were creepy, excellent, some of the chill I got from the game came from them  :D
And obviously, the camera was kinda unpolished, fix that, the right triggger is unused! :P

Overall, keep innovating and polishing everything you can MercurySteam, now more than ever ever ever, we trust you  ;)
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: Death on October 12, 2010, 03:00:26 AM
Quote
Are there any more titan battles in this game? Because I'm at the second one, and if there any more, I'm just going to shelve it. Or maybe just download a save game, if the PS3 will let me. They're so ineptly handled that I really want no part in them. I'm tired of hitting one of them weak spots, then getting to that point where I need to dodge their swipe, but the hit detection is so awful that I end up falling off despite not being anywhere near the danger zone.

I found both titan battles very enjoyable (up to 9-2 anyway, that's how far I am). It's pretty obvious where to move to after you destroy a titan's weak spot to dodge their swipe attack. People just need to learn how to not suck at this game.

Quote
Combat would work better if the larger enemies were actually stunned to an extent, or at least if you could cancel out of moves. I'm sick of unlocking combos and finding them nearly useless against anything but popcorn enemies, because I just keep getting knocked out of them anyway.

It's called strategy. You can't expect the enemies to just stand there while you unleash your most powerful combo's on them. You need to pick and choose which moves and combo's to use on certain enemies at certain times. Again, people just need to learn how to not suck at this game.

Quote
The frame rate is a good indicator of how seriously the developers want me to take their game. It it's 60, then it's about speed, reflexes and skill. If it's 30 or less, it's all about graphics. Guess where Castlevania falls.

30 fps is good enough for any game, no matter how fast the action is. As long as it's locked at 30 fps it doesn't effect gameplay at all. I'll take 30 fps with amazing graphics over 60 fps with mediocre graphics any day.

Quote
The level design is incredibly counterproductive. The natural inclination to explore and find the hidden stuff is cut down because of all of the invisible walls. Except some of them aren't! It seems entirely at the discretion of the level designer. If you're going to render a hole in that mountain wall, and then not let me go through, then don't render it! At one point I walked up to a ledge and the game told me "This route is impassable, go another way." Then why is it there, jackass! Don't just put in pretty scenery, make it functional!

Nitpick much? I suppose you should be able to explore every polygon on the screen huh?

Quote
People are saying this game lasts 15-20 hours? Good GOD this is padded out. This goes back to the whole criticism of modern design sensibilities, but I'd rather a game stick everything in five hours instead of making me through the same types of scenery, defeating the same types of monsters, and every-so-slowly introducing important mechanics. The fighting doesn't even get good until a few hours in. When people dismiss your games for being a shallow button masher because, for the first hour or so, it IS a shallow button masher, then that's an issue.

WOW, you can't be serious. When a game's under 10 hours long everyone complains about it being too short, yet when a game finally comes around that's 20+ hours long people complain about it being too long? Would you REALLY want this game to only be 5 hours long? I think there's enough variety here to justify 20+ hours. You're always exploring new scenery and fighting new enemies, it's not like you're exploring the same looking enviorments and fighting the same enemies the whole game. I'm about 15 hours in and I wish the game would last another 15 hours.

Quote
In keeping with the frame rate discussion, what the hell is with Western developers and not locking frame rates? There are actually a few scarce times where it dips up into 60s, then minute anything happens it falls back into the sub-30 range. One part actually triggered quite a headache

When you got a game this beautiful and combat this fast paced you're bound to get a few framerate hiccups here and there, deal with it.

Quote
Did the game seriously just give me a "guide the light with the mirrors" puzzle? I'm not sure if that was more insulting than that one where you need to rotate those circular platforms. This is Castlevania, not The 7th Fucking Guest.

Most of the puzzles in this game are pretty damn cool and creative if you ask me. Like the board game, the blood maze puzzle, and the one where you drop the marble down the slots to rotate the triggers.

Quote
Same goes with the platforming. Sometimes they'll guide with you the glowy ledges, other times it's up to you to figure out which of the identical looking platforms is your goal and which will send you flying into an abyss. At least the penalty for falling is light.

Be glad the penalty is very light and resets you right back where you fell, because every other game puts you all the way back at your last checkpiont. The platforming is easy and the ledges you have to jump to are pretty obvious anyway.
Title: Re: Critic's Corner -Mr Cox(or team) please read for honest fan feedback.
Post by: eternal night on October 13, 2010, 03:13:39 AM
Here's my small laundry list of things that I feel need to be addressed in the next game.

1. It needs more castle exploration. Please open the castle up so that it's not confined to just a few rooms per level. It feels like we were only shown mere glimpses of it before it was all said and done. I'm sure it's possible to design an entire castle and have nearly every corner of it be explorable in this day of age.

2. The combat needs tweaking. All enemies and the non-titan bosses should be launchable into the air allowing for more diversity in the fights. Most combat boils down to whip, side roll, whip which is repetitive and boring and the system doesn't allow for much creativity or style unless your fighting the smaller enemies. Most boss fights consist of this same repetitive strategy. A power-upgrade that Gabriel could attain at later levels allowing him to juggle larger enemies would have been greatly appreciated. The ability to cancel out of a combo via side roll or perfect guard, *and continue* the combo where it was left off at, would of been greatly appreciated as well. (I'm not asking to turn this into a DMC clone by any means but it does need some minor tweaking here and there.)

3. Ditch the fixed camera perspective. I don't like controlling an extremely small Gabriel Belmont when he's way off in the distance. As a gamer, it makes me feel like more of an observer "Looking in" rather than being the one in control and in the story. (If that makes any sense..)

4. Fewer puzzles, more action/exploration/platforming