Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: Azmodan on November 01, 2007, 11:06:07 PM
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So far, there have been points made that the formula SotN established- once fresh- has now left us with a stale taste. There has been little change in the gameplay itself, other than alterations like dual character modes and minor gimmicks. DXC, with its Classic Gameplay, was personally a breath of fresh air. As nostalgic as it was, however, I doubt that this linear foucs on gameplay can still be done and with an enjoyable amount of playtime and replayability.
My question is this- is there any innovation left in the Metroidvania forumla? Besides the basics, I fail to see anything really new that they could pull off with another CV that utilizes this formula. Or can there be anything else tried that can be both fresh and still capture the feel the series emits?
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Has Metriodvania gameplay been done to death?
Yup.
DOS is as far as it should've went. The souls and soul fusion is as innovative and yet fun, simple and easy as you can get.
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Sticking with the formula is not necessarily a bad thing. If Castlevania is compared to a delicious, hot-selling cookies, it would make a lot of sense. What's in that cookie that makes it so good? The recipe, of course. So if you change the recipe to a point where it alters the taste completely, chances are your hot-selling cookie won't be so hot anymore; it'll just be another cookie.
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I think PoR was doing it right. While still keeping with the exploration apsect, maybe there should be more 'dungeons' or 'stages' that don't need to be replayed too often but may change the setting.
Maybe the first level should be the town, then the woods, then when you get to the Castle, different parts of the castle lead outside to different stages, but the main goal is to get into Dracula's room. The Castle is sort of the 'hub' for the different levels, yet the castle itself is one giant level to explore.
But what really needs to be done is a Castleroid style 3D game. CoD was close...but not close enough. I do like the armor and weapon creation system though. Incorporate that with finding dropped weapons too. I think the fighting engine would be great to mimic the God of War system, but less invulnerable-style combo fighting, and more high-skill required fighting.
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I think there's still a little bit of life left in the Metroidvania style, but it's awfully close to having been beaten to death. They still need to make a true blend of the classic style and the Metroid style; a game where maybe you trek up to the castle through the forests, swamps, caves, and towns, all in a stage-based format. Then once you enter the castle you're sealed in and you begin the Metroid segment of the game. Or, perhaps they should remake Simon's Quest with each mansion a self-contained mini-castleroid.
But yes, the Metroidvanias - just as they are - have been done to death.
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From what I gather most people feel that if the next CV was released on a console with 2D metroidvania gameplay, it would automatically succeed SotN. But also you have to keep in mind that such a game would be a hit or miss
And I think IGA thinks this too. His team is either not motivated or not skilled enough to create a game that's equal or maybe even surpasses sotn. It seems as if in every interview he's asked if he would ever do another console 2D game; and I think IGA & co. really wanna do it-- but not before creating a proper 3D title. I can picture a metroidvania on Wii that may or may not have some connectivity to a DS installment. That's the only real innovation they can do that would catch everyone's attention
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I still reckon it should either be a full Castleroid or nothing. Blending the two styles doesn't work that well; classic Castlevania depends upon a rigid control scheme and the Belmont stride. We need another surprise laden Castle. Like in SotN, there was so much you would miss if you just rushed through.
If PoR was released ten years after DoS, I'm sure many more would have appreciated it. You just can't run with similar ideas too frequently or else people become desensitised to it all. In retrospect, PoR > DoS, but it still could have been much better. Currently there is still no MMX of Castlevania, although IGA is coming very close.
He should forget about fitting things into a perfect timeline. It restricts what he can do. Just retcon everything I say.
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Has Metriodvania gameplay been done to death?
I think the question here should rather be: has 2-D Castlevania gameplay been done to death?
In my opinion, yes. They need to make a metroidvania. But in full third person 3D. That way, you could explore floors, but not in a level form like in the previous 3D titles, but in an area form, so you can return to an area you completed to find more hidden secrets, unlock doors that lead to other areas, etc.
Upgrade the "map" formula to 3D, and there you have a 3rd generation Castlevania unlike the unsuccessful formulas in the previous games.
I find it hard to believe that the same company that released successful 3D franchises as Silent Hill and Metal Gear Solid fail to make a satisfactory Castlevania game. I mean, I know they are not the same developer team, but sheesh! Can't the Castlevania team learn something from the engines of similar games?
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Has Metriodvania gameplay been done to death?
I don't ask they they innovate anything except the graphics, COTM had a unique style and it paid off. I'm wondering why they don't try hi-res (ala guilty gear) or super-colourful graphics (Legend of Mana), you know, there are many awesome styles of 2-D and SotN and it's followers have shown it's one of the top. But try a new style, get some new art directors or whatever the **** they're called. lol
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I've got a bad case of the castleroids.
There's definitely been severe oversaturation of this type of Castlevania game. I'm so sick of them. They could make a 2D game in a different style, they could make a 3D game with similar exploration-based gameplay, they could do something else entirely, but enough is enough. If they ever revisit this formula, let it be at least five years from now, when they have something to say.
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In Reply To #1
I think what they really need to work on is a storyline and character development. Playing through HoD, I remember talking to death 3 times and then fighting the final boss, and after that they had a conversation that was basically "hahaha we lived and I killed that bad thing. Lets go home and make pancakes." Castlevania isn't known for having a good story, just having a lot of plot holes. They should fix that.
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In Reply To #1
I think they need to stop trying to recreate SOTN if they're going to succeed it. DOS and POR did great at exceeding it in some reguards but the level design and atmosphere were a bit lacking. I think above all Castlevania needs to be darker again. So in any case I don't care as long as it feels like the 90's era of Castlevania. I trust IGA can create new games with great gameplay so we're fine there.
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Konami really should make another game like Castlevania 2.
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In Reply To #13
Amen! Ive been sayin this for years! Its like they dont know an entire world exists outside the castle.
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In Reply To #14
There's one thing IGA needs to do to the Castleroids. (This may sound confusing, and I am going to try to word it as good as I can.) Imagine the SOTN map when you hit select. Or the DOS/POR one. Now, imagine being able to tilt that map in any direction. A round map, and a round castle. Castle's aren't always square, they're circular, triangular, and square. in some places. I would like to see a Castleroid that takes the 2D element, and mixes it with 2.5D. Making round staircases going up a pillar, and being able to basicly go into the background of the game. I mean, you look in the background in some areas in some Castlevania games, and you see different pathways, caves, and stairs. I would like to get to a point in an area of a castle, move around a round staircase or a round room, and enter a different area while still being in the same part of the castle.
Yeah, it may sound confusing, but what I'm trying to say is for IGA to make a 2D/2.5D 'Roid game in which the castle is 10X+ the size of DOS/SOTN castles, with round areas/places that let you get into other areas.
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As cool as that sounds, I don't think IGA's team is capable of doing such things.
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In Reply To #16
Hmm, I dunno. If you've played DXC then you've seen some of the cutscenes, and how they work well with the in-game engine. One second it's showing richter from the front, then the sides, then it zooms back out to the 2D perspective. I think they could do it, but it would just take them a lot of time. Oh well, atleast this great idea exists in my mind.
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I think that SotN was a strange sort of alchemical creation that only happened once and is likely to only happen once. Indeed, the game as it is is nearly perfect...and every game since has been trying to grasp that lost glory, only to come up painfully short. As such, yes, I think it has been "done to death" only in the sense that it's been done so much without any real replication of that...something that made SotN so great.
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In Reply To #15
Megaman ZX does something like that already, by entering doors in the backround. (I guess that's why the map was so confusing.)
Actually navigating a fully 3D game but keeping it sidescroll, now you're onto something. Not to mention that you would not need to go from one corner of the map to the other since it would be more like a true castle.
Realistically speaking though, it could not be a "10X big" castle, one of the same size as SOTN or DOS would be fine, and since the backgrounds are more areas, that alone will make the castle bigger.
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In Reply To #19
Well, I'd like to see something crazy like that done for the 1999 game. I'd wanna see it on a console like PS3, with HD 2D sprites, and I don't see why the castle wouldn't be huge, IF it was the 1999 game and it being Dracula's last dance and all. Btw, I do know we're just speaking of a random game, but yeah, 10X size would be pretty huge, but could be awesome. One thing that hasn't been in any Metroidvania games since SOTN was the spell system, or the familiair system(cept in AOS/DOS kinda) and the huge variety in weapons, and how you can swing that weapon. straightforward and diagonal, for example. Eh, I wish IGA could hear this idea and possibly work on it.
Oh, I also suppose the game could work well on PSP, Wii, or PS2. Personally not a big Xbox fan, and am hoping the next CV isn't on one.
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It has been done to death, ...for now. A break, then return to the style would be cool, but only if they let it rest for a few years. Bring back classic elements or start with something new I say.
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Amen brother. IGA needs to re-evaluate the situation before there's nothing left
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In Reply To #21
OH I KNOW! a first person shooter Castlevania!
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In Reply To #23
Dirge of Alucard :P?
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In Reply To #1
I'm gonna say no, I still have plenty of fun with SOTN and it's descendants, although something new would be cool I would still get tons of enjoyment out of a new metroidvania style game or an oldschool linear style game.