Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: thernz on October 15, 2010, 12:22:09 AM
I see that you really like the soundtrack.
Oh man, this place is dark. This needs some dark music even though I'm fighting comic skeletons tossing bones from hammerspace, and the rest of the castle is based on cheesy horror films! Let's just ignore how the game isn't all grim.
Well, it works for Lords just it discarded all of that for hard seriousness, barring Chupacabra.
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: Ahasverus on October 15, 2010, 12:25:20 AM
lol that was so true for old CV xD. However, this time is different, and it could be said that the saga was not more serious because of IGA's weird sense of humor (Persefone FTW)
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: thernz on October 15, 2010, 12:27:49 AM
Well, I personally don't like LoS's soundtrack for other reasons than it's not the same so I guess this doesn't really apply to me anyway, haha.
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: beingthehero on October 15, 2010, 12:32:14 AM
The Persephone enemy originated from Castlevania X68k which was released way back in '93.
Did she have the vacuum cleaner then? O.o
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: uzo on October 15, 2010, 01:29:59 AM
Sure, it's more of what you'd expect out of a generic fantasy motif. But in a way, that detracts from the charm of how unique of an experience Castlevania has been. It was serious, yet dove into uniqueness and nonconformity by breaking out some awesome tunes, and delivering a sometimes subtle yet appreciable sense of humor.
Even though it wasn't generic 'epic' medieval music, it was still fitting because it was KICK ASS music. You're a badass warrior with a whip kicking ass, and making your way to Dracula. Then you kick his ass too.
Stuff generic and stereotypical material into Castlevania, and you will get a more generic and less unique experience. This is pretty much the definition of Lords of Shadow. A more generic Castlevania game.
Sure, generic sells more, but it also stifles the series' charm in the process. This is why people are having beef against Lords of Shadow, and it's more generic music.
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: Abnormal Freak on October 15, 2010, 02:06:34 AM
I haven't even played the game yet, but I fully endorse uzo's post.
The game just looks all-too-typical to me. Nothing about its looks, its music, its gameplay, and so on interests me. Generic is a term that fits this game perfectly, from what I've seen.
A couple of my friends have griped to me over me not being interested to play the game. "Oh, just quit being so stuck-up and play it!" Sorry if my tastes are different from yours and I generally like things that are more unique and inspired. What's funny is neither of the two offenders are hardcore fans of the series. I don't think either one of them has even played through an entire Castlevania game, so fuck'em. I'm sick of people whining about me and discrediting my opinions just because they get all butthurt when I don't see eye-to-eye with them. (Most of my "friends" tend to think I dislike things just to "be different." The smarter ones, over time, realize that's not the case, but some of 'em are still real big dicks who won't let that pretension go.)
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: corneliab on October 15, 2010, 02:13:23 AM
A couple of my friends have griped to me over me not being interested to play the game. "Oh, just quit being so stuck-up and play it!" Sorry if my tastes are different from yours and I generally like things that are more unique and inspired. What's funny is neither of the two offenders are hardcore fans of the series. I don't think either one of them has even played through an entire Castlevania game, so fuck'em. I'm sick of people whining about me and discrediting my opinions just because they get all butthurt when I don't see eye-to-eye with them. (Most of my "friends" tend to think I dislike things just to "be different." The smarter ones, over time, realize that's not the case, but some of 'em are still real big dicks who won't let that pretension go.)
irl bullshit
the fuck
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: Abnormal Freak on October 15, 2010, 02:25:36 AM
yaino
After I typed it, I thought, "Why the hell am I putting this here?" Then I decided to post it anyway 'cos it was a rant FROM THE HEART.
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: Dracgou on October 15, 2010, 02:46:44 AM
I have listen to Oscar Araujo’s work for LOS and honestly his music in LOS in my opioion doesn't hold a candle to Basil Poledouris' or John Williams' works.
Conan the barbarian soundtrack (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UChMJ14dQNs#)
Conan The Barbarian(Suite) - Basil Poledouris (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xhvd9twPEIo#)
Star Wars- The Imperial March (Darth Vader's Theme) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bzWSJG93P8#)
Proabley one of the greatest movie villian themes in history.
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: Abnormal Freak on October 15, 2010, 02:48:42 AM
Man... RoboCop has one of the few orchestral film scores I actually like. So awesome.
And to make the film and its music even cooler, it's got that wicked PTP song playing in a club.
Ministry - PTP - Show Me Your Spine (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZflAaRrqwIM#ws)
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: thernz on October 15, 2010, 02:59:31 AM
Yeah that's the problem I have. I don't really find it to be a particularly engaging score even when it stands alone. I don't think I ever really thought negatively of it because it wasn't "Castlevania-style."
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: Dracgou on October 15, 2010, 03:43:56 AM
random music fact: Splatterhouse 1 to 3's music style was inspired by horror music from known Italian horror flicks from the 1970's and 1980's , plus a few selected american ones. but the number one influence for Splatterhouse 1 to 3's music style is Fabio Frizzi.
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: Abnormal Freak on October 15, 2010, 04:05:50 AM
Woo, Fabio Frizzi. The Beyond and those other Fulci flicks have got some real eerie, moody sounds. I could totally see the Splatterhouse music being inspired by that.
'Cept there's no funky bass guitar in any of those games, lol.
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: Vampire Killer on October 15, 2010, 04:38:35 AM
(Most of my "friends" tend to think I dislike things just to "be different." The smarter ones, over time, realize that's not the case, but some of 'em are still real big dicks who won't let that pretension go.)
Or maybe you really are just stuck up and too damned picky. Maybe not. For me, LoS is pure CV. Sometimes, the biggest obstacle to enjoyment is ourselves.
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: Abnormal Freak on October 15, 2010, 05:51:04 AM
Well, if me being "too stuck-up" were the case, I'd like to know how I could become less stuck-up. :p But the thing is, these people don't like what I like, so...is it really hard for them to understand that differing people have differing tastes? I mean, the majority of what I like may be rather niche and unpopular, but it exists for a reason (because the people who made it like it and have that kind of mindset), and there are those of us out there who like it. So, if I were actually stuck-up and unwilling to like anything but a few things, then that wouldn't explain why I'm so heavily into the music, movies, comics, and video games that I am, heh. And actually, I listen to far more music and watch far more movies and all that than any of them.
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: e105beta on October 15, 2010, 09:23:57 AM
Since we're on the discussion of the music...
Am I the only one who hears the Dracula final boss music from Castlevania 1 in the Carmilla battle?
Castlevania Lords of Shadow Carmilla Boss Walkthrough 1/2 (LOS HD xbox 360 Gameplay) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWhWXOlc524#ws)
Starts at 9:50.
EDIT: It plays the whole fight once she monsters up.
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: shelverton. on October 15, 2010, 11:10:32 AM
I like a few of the tracks in the game, but I can't tell most of them apart.. they're honestly not very memorable. I wonder if this Oscar dude even listened to the older Castlevania music? I don't think so. Maybe Konami specifically told him not to, which is really sad. And might I add; Disrespectful to the longtime fans of the series. The music was probably the one thing that castlevania was ALWAYS praised for, so I don't understand why they'd change it completely. "It wouldn't fit with LoS" someone cries, but even so, did they really have to move THIS far away from the roots? What about a happy medium?`
With Michiru Yamane it's quite obvious that she studied the old soundtracks, cause her work in Bloodlines and Symphony sound like a natural continuation to the classic Castlevania sound. She absolutely NAILED what Castlevania was all about, while also giving it her own unique style. Some might argue that she was making the same 2-3 songs over and over in the end, but I still think she did a fantastic job. Better than any other video game composer I can think of at the moment.
EDIT: That video with the Carmilla fight... damn. The guy talks for 4 minutes about how he's not gonna talk during gameplay. He explains a million times that he's gonna pause the game whenever he has something important to say. People DESPERATELY need to learn how to EDIT their videos. Gonna listen to the music now.
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: Valtiel on October 15, 2010, 11:52:28 AM
With Michiru Yamane it's quite obvious that she studied the old soundtracks, cause her work in Bloodlines and Symphony sound like a natural continuation to the classic Castlevania sound. She absolutely NAILED what Castlevania was all about, while also giving it her own unique style. Some might argue that she was making the same 2-3 songs over and over in the end, but I still think she did a fantastic job. Better than any other video game composer I can think of at the moment.
I happen to disagree. In fact, I think there's very little continuity with what came before, and we simply notice less because she's basically always been constrained to midi-quality hardware. You'll naturally feel a bigger difference between the fully orchestrated music of LoS because there's 3 generations of consoles in between, and a completely different way to make music. But the way Yamane introduced electric sounds and high speed riffs to the soundtrack isn't less "revolutionary" than what Araujo did.
Which is also Yamane's limit: when she got to work on hardware that allowed for higher quality than she was used too, she failed to make the same jump other composers did. While she was doing this:
I guess I just don't see Yamane's much as THAT good (there's plenty of composer in her generation of gaming, not just Sakimoto or Mitsuda, who managed to produce better works), but she was definitely above average. WELL above average. I really like LoI's soundtrack, but it was as removed from the series' roots as Araujo's OST is, if not more.
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: shelverton. on October 15, 2010, 01:27:43 PM
I guess I just don't see Yamane's much as THAT good (there's plenty of composer in her generation of gaming, not just Sakimoto or Mitsuda, who managed to produce better works), but she was definitely above average. WELL above average. I really like LoI's soundtrack, but it was as removed from the series' roots as Araujo's OST is, if not more.
It's funny how you mention LoI, cause that was quite frankly the least Castlevaniaesque soundtrack Yamane has ever done, IMO. And it's also my least favourie (give or take a few tracks.) So I can't argue with you there.
What I'm saying is that Yamane picked up on melodies and harmonies from earlier Castlevania games and gave them her own flavour. It's not hard to see that the Clockwork theme from Dracula's Curse was a huge inspiration for many of her songs, starting with Prayer of a Tragic Queen, continuing with Wood carving Partita and so on. Tracks like Calling from Heaven, Leon's Theme from LoI, Clocktower from CoD, The Colossus (OoE) and a few others sound like typical Yamane songs, and they also share a certain "vibe" that arguably started in Dracula's Curse ("Riddle" to be more precise. I know people will disagree here, but I hear what I hear..).
I always felt songs like Reincarnated Souls are very true to the series roots too. Bakc in the day, before anyone even knew (or cared) who the composers were, I remember thinking that Bloodlines had much better music than Super Castlevania 4, cause it sounded more like the older games. But hey, that's just me.
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: Zobias on October 15, 2010, 01:43:14 PM
The score from Lords of Shadow is not an expansion of themes from an existing series rather it is the 1st piece so any titles after LOS the score will be either expanions of the main themes or new pieces all together. Thats what most people don't understand...
I'll use Howard Shore as example for the LOTR each CD had different music but each had its main themes that signified the Lead or Lead characters or were expanions of the main theme.
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: Valtiel on October 15, 2010, 01:54:07 PM
I always felt songs like Reincarnated Souls are very true to the series roots too. Bakc in the day, before anyone even knew (or cared) who the composers were, I remember thinking that Bloodlines had much better music than Super Castlevania 4, cause it sounded more like the older games. But hey, that's just me.
I think the core problem here is that the older Vanias (1 to 3) were published on such a primitive piece of hardware that 5 monkeys blowing a flute sounded closer to it than actual music does. I mean listen to:
I have tears in my eyes just listening but... it's a 20 seconds loop. Almost all the old OST suites were about 1 min long. They're glorified ringtones. Even Yamane had to move away from that, try and make it evolve. I think she was facilitated compared to Araujo because she began working on games where the OST wasn't supposed to follow the action (the game structure had not changed, and nobody was expecting anything more than a catchy tune to listen to while sidescrolling from one screen to the next) and because she could factually continue producing music with synth sounds and midi samples - she just made it more complex and gave it her own style, and it felt just right.
Making an orchestrated OST that is faithful to CV's roots would be incredibly hard, in my opinion. Classicvania music is... happy. It's very energetic stuff. When it tries to be "scary", it heavily falls upon using "church sounds" (something Yamane exaggerated with imho, there's only so much you can do with choirs and organs). It works fantastic inside a videogame, but would class with any pretension of "realism" or immersion. It screams "this is a GAME, enjoy!". Which is fantastic in its own way, but I wonder if it could be made work inside a game like LoS.
If anything, it's somewhat criminal that they didn't even attempt at putting in something like this:
It would have worked fine, even if just for credits, or as background during a FMV scene. Or during the last fight. Bloody Tears COULD have worked, and they should have made it work.
However, you need to consider something. Imagine hiring a musician you consider having some talent, and then asking him to re-make someone else's music instead of giving it its own spin. I don't know, I guess Araujo deserved his chance, and while overall his work is indeed somewhat disconnected from the serie's roots, some of the suites are amazing. Courtyard is breathtaking, and Gabriel's Theme is the best Belmont theme after Simon's.
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: shelverton. on October 15, 2010, 02:23:17 PM
I dunno if this thread is even right for me... but anyway, I'd much rather have "glorifed ringtones" than cookie cutter hollywoodesque "epicness", even though I realise times have changed. 20 sec loops would not work in LoS, but there must be a happy medium. There are examples of epic, cinematic scores that are totally memorable, such as;
Shadow Of The Colossus OST - Counterattack (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vIxrBHLS88#)
I just wish the songs in LoS were memorable and hummable like this.
Then again, I think the NES version of Beginning sounds great too. :)
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: Valtiel on October 15, 2010, 02:37:22 PM
I dunno if this thread is even right for me... but anyway, I'd much rather have "glorifed ringtones" than cookie cutter hollywoodesque "epicness", even though I realise times have changed. 20 sec loops would not work in LoS, but there must be a happy medium. There are examples of epic, cinematic scores that are totally memorable, such as;
That's an entirely different argument; disliking Araujo's OST is perfectly fine. I find it very good, with some outstanding pieces, but also extremely flawed. He could have injected some more personality in the tunes. Too often he played safe. Plus, pulling out the SotC OST isn't fairplay. It's an heavyweight right there.
As a side note, on the issue of music being "hummable", I think that's one of the most crucial (and fantastic) contradictions of CV: it's supposed to be a gothic horror saga. We COMPLAIN if things get to bright or not "scary" or gothic enough. And yet, the music is all catchy and happy and hummable... and we love it. Makes you think, in a way.
(Besides, I really like the NES CV music. I have it on loop on my MP3 players. But still, it's very safe, very simple loops :P)
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: thernz on October 15, 2010, 03:25:28 PM
why are we insulting synths by saying monkeys blowing flutes is more like them. they're distinct sounds of their own. there's a perk richness to them i think. the way they are punctuated and crisp lets you enjoy the different layers more easily too imo.
how does valtiel feel about harmony of dissonance's music
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: crisis on October 15, 2010, 03:33:48 PM
Quote from: thernz
why are we insulting synths by saying monkeys blowing flutes is more like them.
because the old music for the old saga is old & outdated
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: Munchy on October 15, 2010, 03:42:33 PM
Sure, it's more of what you'd expect out of a generic fantasy motif. But in a way, that detracts from the charm of how unique of an experience Castlevania has been. It was serious, yet dove into uniqueness and nonconformity by breaking out some awesome tunes, and delivering a sometimes subtle yet appreciable sense of humor.
Even though it wasn't generic 'epic' medieval music, it was still fitting because it was KICK ASS music. You're a badass warrior with a whip kicking ass, and making your way to Dracula. Then you kick his ass too.
Stuff generic and stereotypical material into Castlevania, and you will get a more generic and less unique experience. This is pretty much the definition of Lords of Shadow. A more generic Castlevania game.
Sure, generic sells more, but it also stifles the series' charm in the process. This is why people are having beef against Lords of Shadow, and it's more generic music.
QFT. I'm not going to magically like a soundtrack because a "professional" says I should. That's like listening to Uwe Boll when he says his movies are genius because he has a PhD in Literary Arts.
Also, Araujo can make some great music, as is evident by the Waterfall theme. Most of his other tunes don't live up to it, though.
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: Ahasverus on October 15, 2010, 05:57:35 PM
Am I the only one who hears the Dracula final boss music from Castlevania 1 in the Carmilla battle?
Castlevania Lords of Shadow Carmilla Boss Walkthrough 1/2 (LOS HD xbox 360 Gameplay) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWhWXOlc524#ws)
Starts at 9:50.
EDIT: It plays the whole fight once she monsters up.
NOp you are not. The "Carmilla" song is a clear readaptaition of the old Dracula battle theme, the start is the same and they share the same chord progressions until Carmilla introduces a new melody. One of the finest tracks in the score.
Edit: It seems the "Carmilla" song is broken up in parts in the game, This is the "Carmilla" that came with the soundtrack, and it¡s the one that shares the chord progressions with the original theme Castlevania Lords Of Shadow OST: Carmilla (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNlxz072vGc#ws) Castlevania OST - Out Of Time Part 2 (Stage 6) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErJG5f041J4#)
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: Vampire Killer on October 15, 2010, 06:42:45 PM
and Gabriel's Theme is the best Belmont theme after Simon's.
I totally agree. I have found myself humming it while driving.
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: Inccubus on October 15, 2010, 08:58:37 PM
I'm a bit disappointed in the soundtrack because the few old themes seem 'over-orchestrated' to the point where if I'm not specifically trying to listen for them they're indistinguishable from the new tunes. Honestly, I was expecting the music to be more along the lines of Van Helsing's score which IMO was well orchestrated and still catchy.
Van Helsing - Journey to Transylvania (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYqW-UyN5mg#)
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: bobby digital on October 15, 2010, 09:46:04 PM
It honestly did feel a little bland and lifeless. The good tracks were great-the waterfall, belmont's theme and whatever song plays in the map screen were all personal standouts.
There needs to be a little more variety next time and some more aggressive tunes during the levels themselves, rather than just boss battles. If the land of the lycans, vampires, and necromancers all had different musical themes I think more people here would be satisfied, but we heard the same music at some point in almost every level.
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: bucky on October 15, 2010, 10:04:35 PM
I'm not attempting to invalidate the opinion in the article by any means, but I do hold some skepticism that you can point to one blog's post as "professional", and treat it as more valid than anyone else's opinion. My (real life) friends and acquaintances Zen Albatross and Audun are contributors to that site, so it feels like I'm reading the opinion of a peer. Although I haven't contributed to the site before, I don't see a reason why my opinion would be any more or less professional, which is made here (http://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/index.php?topic=2855.75) in short.. :)
That being said, Original Sound Version is a very cool site with lots of neat stuff on there...
Woo, Fabio Frizzi. The Beyond and those other Fulci flicks have got some real eerie, moody sounds. I could totally see the Splatterhouse music being inspired by that.
'Cept there's no funky bass guitar in any of those games, lol.
There's this one PoR track that sounds like it's taken straight from a Goblin soundtrack (Tenebre, Dawn of the Dead, Suspiria, etc). Funky, jumpin' bassline and all...
MUSIC: Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin - Gears Go Awry (DS) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7fK_Fh0NaU#)
I have no idea who composed it though. Based on the style I would assume that it's Yuzo Koshiro, but I'm not certain who-did-what.
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: thernz on October 15, 2010, 10:37:02 PM
Yeah it was Koshiro.
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: Abnormal Freak on October 15, 2010, 11:16:26 PM
It's certainly got a Koshiro sound, so it's gotta be him. And yeah, I'm hearin' the '70s/'80s Italian horror film music similarity, ha.
Forgot Goblin did the score for Tenebrae. I remember it bein' rockin', but just forgot it was Goblin. I should rewatch that soon.
Since we're talking film and game scoring, and how I find most orchestral scores really dull and generic: the first Ninja Turtles movie is one with a really cool score.
TMNT (1990) Soundtrack 8- Shredder's Suite (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMQW_sxqv98#)
Man, I love that so much more than boring "epic" orchestral scores. Not that I dislike orchestral scores... They just often sound so uninspired, and I can rarely ever remember or hum a tune from them.
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: Harrycombs on October 16, 2010, 01:46:03 AM
Man, I love that so much more than boring "epic" orchestral scores. Not that I dislike orchestral scores... They just often sound so uninspired, and I can rarely ever remember or hum a tune from them.
The problem isn't just that they are orchestrated, its just that they are often orchestrated badly.
Look at Mitsuda's soundtrack for Xenosaga. That was incredible. So much better than the bland score we got in Lords. Its sounds beautiful and its still totally hummable. Why couldn't Lords have sounded like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAtXgpdKLHQ
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: Dracgou on October 16, 2010, 04:56:44 AM
it would be quite funny if the theme of Back to the Future had played in LOS and Zobek from the future suddenly showed up in a Delorean.
Back To The Future Theme Song (HQ) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTGyeGgMpk8#)
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: corneliab on October 16, 2010, 05:41:54 AM
The problem isn't just that they are orchestrated, its just that they are often orchestrated badly.
Look at Mitsuda's soundtrack for Xenosaga. That was incredible. So much better than the bland score we got in Lords. Its sounds beautiful and its still totally hummable. Why couldn't Lords have sounded like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAtXgpdKLHQ
You seriously think that stuff like that is hummable? That track was boring and repetitive at best, and cacaphonous at worst. Wtf.
There really wasn't a single interested thing about that track. Completely cookie-cutter. This tune at least manages to be melodic and memorable in comparison: Castlevania Lords of Shadow Music - The Ice Titan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4-AVow9WBc#)
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: Dremn on October 16, 2010, 06:06:14 AM
Probably the best track next to the Waterfall theme
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: Valtiel on October 16, 2010, 06:09:31 AM
why are we insulting synths by saying monkeys blowing flutes is more like them. they're distinct sounds of their own. there's a perk richness to them i think. the way they are punctuated and crisp lets you enjoy the different layers more easily too imo.
how does valtiel feel about harmony of dissonance's music
I'm not "insulting" synths per se, I'm insulting the sound capabilities of the consoles such games were released on. Some of those songs became immortal once given room in other environments (once again Bloody Tears started on the NES and just listen to that guy I linked playing it on the piano) but while the tune is the same, the result is much different.
HoD's music isn't my favourite in the saga (I'm a classicvania guy) but it sounds like very good music... played by a guy blowing a leaf and hammering on a keyboard that only has 2 keys. The fault isn't in the music, but when you're working on a platform that is so limited in terms of musical reproduction, you're stuck with working on songs that hold their own thanks to the tune. The genius in Castlevania's case was that Konami put a lot of resources in composing and they managed to get a consistent track of excellent tunes. But the NES/GBA's sound capabilities remain crap.
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: Abnormal Freak on October 16, 2010, 06:17:54 AM
Bah! Chiptune and Mitsuda bashing... What is the world coming to???
I vote all games and movies feature nothing but Foetus tunes, regardless of whether they fit the subject or scene.
Foetus - Lust for Death (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MwQos9L7j8#)
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: Valtiel on October 16, 2010, 06:21:35 AM
A few observations on the tracks posted here:
I love most of what was posted (with the exception of the TMNT track, and boy, Mitsuda is awesome), but you're seriously undercutting Araujo's approach to the OST.
Listen to the Ice Titan track posted above, from 1.15 to 1.45. Or to the entire Gabriel theme. Or:
Castlevania Lords of Shadow Music - The Evil Butcher (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXJpniZYkHg#)
or
Castlevania Lords of Shadow Music - Laura's Mercy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8nEuf3lDXo#)
Notice the enfasis Araujo puts on strings and brass, and the way he uses choirs and percussions. He has great sensibility in handling strings in particular, making them go from epic to haunting to sad in a matter of a few seconds.
Everyone's free to dislike the OST, but some of the comparisons here are absolutely out of place. This is a first rate soundtrack.
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: corneliab on October 16, 2010, 06:24:29 AM
Mind pointing me toward a more representative track?
Because the one mentioned here was definitely more "generic sounding" than anything I've heard out of LoS.
EDIT: Just listened to that Helsing track. That's an awesome tune. Movie was total shit though. :(
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: Abnormal Freak on October 16, 2010, 06:31:40 AM
I'm not too incredibly familiar with the guy, but my brother's pretty big into his music and I've heard tunes here and there that all sounded real cool.
'Course, the stuff I'm most familiar with isn't orchestrated but done with piano, synths, and some "real" instruments here and there.
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: Dracgou on October 16, 2010, 10:13:09 AM
IF Conan's theme was playing when Zobek first zaps Gabe, then Zobek would be screw, cause when ever theme played the badguys always got their asses kick
Conan The Destroyer(Main Theme) - Basil Poledouris (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JH00B8X4Uo#)
edit: Golden axe was inspired by Conan
Golden Axe 1 Music - Path of Fiend (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umesvao4rnY#)
Golden Axe 1 (Genesis) Music - Death Adder (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTNM94rSG_k#)
Golden Axe 1 (Genesis) Music - Showdown (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0-7SM5_lcQ#)
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: Kingshango on October 16, 2010, 10:52:39 AM
I was surprised that this boss theme wasn't in the offical soundtrack, it was pretty epic and it sounded like something I would hear out of one the Conan movies.
Mechanical Monstrosity: Castlevania Lords of Shadow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRPRJ_0kAW4#)
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: Alutwon on October 16, 2010, 12:11:34 PM
Yea the battle themes were really good and I loved that they sounded like something out of Conan. It does sound rather generic at first but it is slowly growing on me. I just mean the battle themes of course, the other songs aside from a few need to be slightly influenced by the levels Gabriel is exploring. Another thing is that certain levels like the machine tower don't have their own theme (blasphemy) it shares it with the maze gardens and a few other levels. I'm not saying that they have to follow the old way and make level-based music but they shouldn't share music between chapters. If I'm in Agharta I don't want to be reminded of the castle.
Notable mentions: Waterfalls of Agharta, Belmont's theme, The Dead Bog, The Swamp Troll, Mechanical Monstrosity, Maze Gardens, The Evil Butcher, Carmilla, Final Confrontation, BGM125, and the song that plays during chapter 4-1 (can't find the name :'()
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: default2k on October 16, 2010, 01:18:51 PM
I cant really tell each soundtrack from each other, they are not that memorable. :-\ The DS vanias had more beatiful scores IMO. To each their own i guess. :P
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: ShinAkumaXX on October 16, 2010, 02:09:19 PM
Professional opinion? I liked the soundtrack, it was good. Like many others though, I definitely think it needed a few more tracks. I even bought the L Edition with the soundtrack. It seems a bit odd that the PSX and PS2 Vanias have more songs by at least 10 tracks.
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: Harrycombs on October 16, 2010, 02:55:18 PM
I'm not "insulting" synths per se, I'm insulting the sound capabilities of the consoles such games were released on. Some of those songs became immortal once given room in other environments (once again Bloody Tears started on the NES and just listen to that guy I linked playing it on the piano) but while the tune is the same, the result is much different.
HoD's music isn't my favourite in the saga (I'm a classicvania guy) but it sounds like very good music... played by a guy blowing a leaf and hammering on a keyboard that only has 2 keys. The fault isn't in the music, but when you're working on a platform that is so limited in terms of musical reproduction, you're stuck with working on songs that hold their own thanks to the tune. The genius in Castlevania's case was that Konami put a lot of resources in composing and they managed to get a consistent track of excellent tunes. But the NES/GBA's sound capabilities remain crap.
Despite IGA's lame excuse that the focus on graphics strained the engine so much that the sound capabilities were degraded, I think it was purposely done in HoD's case. I feel that in HoD, it takes into account the limitations and even relies on them. If anything, you're actually underestimating the sound capabilities. And besides that, HoD's music is pretty distinct even when compared to Metroidvania titles anyway. It manages to be complex, dynamic, yet still catchy and hummable. I would group it up with SCVIV with the more unique soundtracks in the series. I personally find there's a beauty in limitations. Every arrangement of HoD music I found just pales to the original song.
My problem with the Araujo tracks is that they feel extremely excessive to me. Araujo likes to use a variety of techniques and layers but I don't think they hold up to form good individual songs. I am just not feeling the way a lot of the songs develop or how his use of techniques contribute to the identity of a track. Laura's Mercy is good, but it helps that it's short. But in the longer tracks, they start to meander to me. So there may be parts I like in a song, but as a whole, I don't think those parts build to form a cohesive song. There needs to be more in pulling the song together. Otherwise, they just sound disjointed to me and I can't enjoy the soundtrack. I also have problems with the mixing, because there really isn't that clear of a order or priority with the instruments, and despite all the proficient techniques employed, it fails to be distinctive. So it all just fails on what I would consider a good soundtrack.
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: corneliab on October 16, 2010, 09:34:31 PM
I personally thought that HoD's soundtrack was just pure garbage. There are a couple of memorable tunes, like Juste's theme, the bad epilogue, the chapel, and the Dracula fight, but everything else was both nondistinctive and offensive to the ears. That boss theme that plays when you fight Maxim is one of the ABSOLUTE WORST songs I've ever heard in any game.
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: Alutwon on October 16, 2010, 10:10:49 PM
Even though HoD suffers from horrible boss fights the game has other redeeming qualities(Aesthetically) like the music for example. The only truly bad song in HoD is "Luminescent caverns", The rest of the songs are really impressive imo. But this is coming from a person who found AoS ost to be really bland, idk maybe I'm just strange? ;D
I do have to agree with Thernz, other than a couple songs the rest seem boring.
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: crisis on October 16, 2010, 10:20:55 PM
What are you guys talking about? Max Slimer & the Merchant's Theme are among the best boss fight/song in any CV game.
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: thernz on October 16, 2010, 10:41:46 PM
I'll sell at my place (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGLbBV9KkM0#) BEST SONG.
Oh yeah, HoD has some pretty atrocious boss themes and boring themes. I mainly talked about it because otherwise, I thought some of its compositions were the most unique and daring with how it played around with dissonance and all the layering in the songs despite its substandard instrument quality.
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: DragonsAndCarpetBags on October 16, 2010, 11:47:18 PM
I supose Lords of Shadow's soundtrack is good from a technical point of view, but each Castlevania game has something different to say (well....most of them) that makes it unique, whether you like it or not.
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: Dracgou on October 16, 2010, 11:55:51 PM
comparing sound capabilities between diffrent consoles
All those videos make me think "Uematsu could have done it better"
Honesty, Mitsuda has yet to trump his score on Chrono Trigger.
I actually agree. Chrono Trigger's probably my favorite Mitsuda soundtrack, with Xenogears following close after. I'm really not a fan of his New Age-style of Eastern meets Celtic as seen in Chrono Cross(and some of his other, more recent stuff). Reminds me of what Sting did in the 90s. Though, as Chrono Trigger is concerned, what little Uematsu did for that, those songs WERE well integrated(the song that places in the Manolia Cathedral, the Denadoro Mountains, as well as the music everytime you try to open a magically sealed door).
Though, listing Mitsuda's work on Xenosaga, I'm surprised nobody put up the song that plays during the "Ma Belle Peche" scene. That's probably the only song I found memorable in the first Xenosaga game.
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: Harrycombs on October 17, 2010, 12:07:35 PM
All those videos make me think "Uematsu could have done it better"
Honesty, Mitsuda has yet to trump his score on Chrono Trigger.
Uematsu is good, but most of his orchestral pieces are actually arranged by Shiro Hamaguchi, because he admits to not being very good at using them, while Mitsuda still transitioned from synths to an orchestra perfectly.
And the soundtrack for Chrono Trigger is good, but I actually prefer Xenogears.
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on October 18, 2010, 03:09:31 PM
I love Chrono Trigger but I find that Chrono Cross has a remarkable soundtrack that stands on its own, and I'm not talking about the Celtic Tracks.
For example, the main theme "Time's Scar" is great, as is its "Another World" arrangement. Then there's the rocking Magical Dreamers (arrangement of Marbule, played by rocker Nikki), as well as Fort Dragonia and Isle of the Dead, to name a few.
They're all pretty hummable and unique, but make up a great OST.
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: DragonSlayr81 on October 18, 2010, 04:26:38 PM
I love Chrono Trigger but I find that Chrono Cross has a remarkable soundtrack that stands on its own, and I'm not talking about the Celtic Tracks.
For example, the main theme "Time's Scar" is great, as is its "Another World" arrangement. Then there's the rocking Magical Dreamers (arrangement of Marbule, played by rocker Nikki), as well as Fort Dragonia and Isle of the Dead, to name a few.
They're all pretty hummable and unique, but make up a great OST.
Don't get me wrong, some of the songs are pretty good, but, as far as personal taste is concerned, I never cared for Mitsuda's dabbling in the ethnic melange of far east meets middle eastern meets celtic music. Though, I find myself liking the songs that sound most like CT songs, such as Star Stealing Girl, Frozen Flame(both of which were actually from the game Radical Dreamers, which might've explained the SNES-era typed melody), Radical Dreamers and Dragon Knight.
Though, for some strange reason, I always thought Voyage(Home World) sounded a lot like the Little House on the Prairie theme.
Title: Re: Professional Opinion about Lords of Shadow's Musical Score
Post by: angevil on October 18, 2010, 06:21:41 PM
Making an orchestrated OST that is faithful to CV's roots would be incredibly hard, in my opinion.
I disagree. This year in February I was lucky to attend the Castlevania concert in Stockholm and it was perfect. If only they would release the DVD or a live CD from that performance..I hope you guys will send requests. The more messages we send, we′ll have more chances for eventual release..
About Bloody tears piano performance that you included earlier in your post..I just want to say that it is absolutely amazing and I have had it on my mp3 player for a long time. When I had first listened to it, I immediately fell in love with that performance and was watching it over and over. Now it′s always with me :)