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The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: Belmont Stakes on October 18, 2010, 10:35:36 AM

Title: Best CV storyline poll
Post by: Belmont Stakes on October 18, 2010, 10:35:36 AM
This is a tough topic but I wanted to see what you guys think is the best storyline in the series. Every game has a storyline and I recognized that some games are remakes and not all of them have dialogue in them (which is another poll in and of itself) so I am going to be grouping consolidating some of these games together.

Vampire Killer Castlevania I IV and Chronicles will be one option

Dracula X, Rondo of Blood, Dracula X Chronicles will be its own game as well

I will put Haunted Castle in its own category simply due to the wedding side story at the beginning.
Title: Re: Best CV storyline poll
Post by: X on October 18, 2010, 11:46:11 AM
I voted for CV 1/4 and chronicles cause the stories were prime and there was no IGA ego to F**K it all up. *Cough* LoI *Cough*

-X
Title: Re: Best CV storyline poll
Post by: Maedhros on October 18, 2010, 12:11:56 PM
SOTN.
Title: Re: Best CV storyline poll
Post by: Alutwon on October 18, 2010, 12:16:21 PM
I vote for LoS because its the one with the most thought and effort put into it. I would have voted Harmony of Dissonance because the the plot had a lot of potential with the two spirits battling for control and thus making two castles but, like most of IGA's plots it was never fleshed out.
Title: Re: Best CV storyline poll
Post by: Heuss on October 18, 2010, 12:36:21 PM

Castlevania Lords of Shadow

Title: Re: Best CV storyline poll
Post by: crisis on October 18, 2010, 01:10:43 PM
LoS had me going until they added that stupid epilogue, just for the sake of "omg twist ending."
Title: Re: Best CV storyline poll
Post by: Valtiel on October 18, 2010, 01:23:14 PM
LoS has definitely the best storytelling and the most coherent plot (also helped by unprecedented, even if very uneven, exposition for the serie's standard); however this challenge risks to come off as some sort of paraolympic competition.
Don't misunderstand, I think the potential for CV's storyline has always been extremely strong; in fact, the entire idea of Dracula and a clan of vampire hunters going after him every 100 years in preparation for an apocalyptic confrontation at the eve of the millenium is just gold. Small problem is, that's the narrated premise to every game, which then ends up being a confused mess of dislodged dialogues that further such story one inch per console generation.

Let's hope LoS helps Konami flesh out the amazing potential here. I know some people hates Kojima; but just imagine a slightly less logorroic Kojima giving CV's story the MGS treatment. Recurring villains, machinations, overarching plots, and so on.

The actual potential for CV is absurd. You could have epic spanning plots involving Dracula's own misterious plans, Death serving him while working towards his own ends, ancient vampire rivals opposing both the Belmonts and Dracula, Corvinus of Hungary scheming against his old rival, the involvement of the Church, a group of holy templars secretly manipulated by a Nosferatu vampire who wants Dracula's power... you could fit in basically any idea. You just need to storytellers to grow out of the revenge megaplot, stop focusing on 2 characters at a time and build games that have an actual cast outside of the hero and the 3 npcs that help him along the way.
Title: Re: Best CV storyline poll
Post by: Kale on October 18, 2010, 07:32:35 PM
LoS has definitely the best storytelling and the most coherent plot (also helped by unprecedented, even if very uneven, exposition for the serie's standard); however this challenge risks to come off as some sort of paraolympic competition.
Don't misunderstand, I think the potential for CV's storyline has always been extremely strong; in fact, the entire idea of Dracula and a clan of vampire hunters going after him every 100 years in preparation for an apocalyptic confrontation at the eve of the millenium is just gold. Small problem is, that's the narrated premise to every game, which then ends up being a confused mess of dislodged dialogues that further such story one inch per console generation.

Let's hope LoS helps Konami flesh out the amazing potential here. I know some people hates Kojima; but just imagine a slightly less logorroic Kojima giving CV's story the MGS treatment. Recurring villains, machinations, overarching plots, and so on.

The actual potential for CV is absurd. You could have epic spanning plots involving Dracula's own misterious plans, Death serving him while working towards his own ends, ancient vampire rivals opposing both the Belmonts and Dracula, Corvinus of Hungary scheming against his old rival, the involvement of the Church, a group of holy templars secretly manipulated by a Nosferatu vampire who wants Dracula's power... you could fit in basically any idea. You just need to storytellers to grow out of the revenge megaplot, stop focusing on 2 characters at a time and build games that have an actual cast outside of the hero and the 3 npcs that help him along the way.

I completely agree. CV has a great base for an amazing story. There could be so much that could be done regarding the Belmonts in CV's universe. It's a pity they don't expand it more.

LoS has the best story... Most of the other stories are pretty basic. And although I like SotN's story a bit more than the others... Maria's instant love seemed kind of off to me. I still love her character, as I felt it had so much potential... but she met Alucard like 5 times, and that just doesn't seem enough, considering their meetings to chase after him.
Title: Re: Best CV storyline poll
Post by: Ahasverus on October 18, 2010, 08:15:38 PM
This is a no brainer, really.
P.S: Whoever said Ecclesia had better story than LoS: lol wut?
Title: Re: Best CV storyline poll
Post by: cecil-kain on October 18, 2010, 08:31:27 PM
LoS could have easily lost to Aria of Sorrow but for 2 things...


SPOILER!!

3

2

1

--First off the relationship between Dracula and Satan is finally revealed --addressing that particular issue has vastly improved the Castlevania's credibility.  Most Castlevania games have more or less equated Dracula with Satan, and that was hard to take seriously --considering all the bold Christian themes...  Moreover the other "Elephant in the Room" has been the origin of Dracula's alliance with Death --it makes no sense for a diety like Death to be subserviant to a mortal or to controlled by a petty jewel like the Crimson Stone....  Poor storytelling on the part of LoI was strikingly corrected in LoS.  Just a small gripe is how they took "Death" down a notch by giving him a mortal origin story --makes him more of Dracula's equal....  But this forced alliance for supremacy over Satan was a brilliant move.
Title: Re: Best CV storyline poll
Post by: uzo on October 18, 2010, 08:52:34 PM
PORTRAIT OF RUIN :D

...

D: Sorry guys, I'll never make a joke like that again.
Title: Re: Best CV storyline poll
Post by: Kale on October 18, 2010, 08:54:31 PM
Good! I was just about to smack you across the intaweb!
Title: Re: Best CV storyline poll
Post by: Munchy on October 18, 2010, 10:20:19 PM
LoS had me going until they added that stupid epilogue, just for the sake of "omg twist ending."

Yep.
Title: Re: Best CV storyline poll
Post by: REmaster on October 22, 2010, 02:15:08 PM
LOS For me.

SOTN for the best Dialogue though ;D
Title: Re: Best CV storyline poll
Post by: Harrycombs on October 22, 2010, 06:31:56 PM
Castlevania 64 in my opinion. It was a simple story, but told quite well. Lords of Shadow doesn't get my vote because of the failed Kojima-esque plot twist in the end and having 2 villains give their monologues about their master plans in a row.
Title: Re: Best CV storyline poll
Post by: justin312 on October 23, 2010, 05:43:38 AM
Lords of Shadow, with the runner-up being Castlevania 64.

Its interesting to note that Iga's games, in total, have only gotten about 20% of the votes, when he has been the supposed owner of the Castlevania story for most of its history beyond the 8-bit and 16-bit days.  I think that says a little something about his storytelling ability.
Title: Re: Best CV storyline poll
Post by: Valtiel on October 23, 2010, 05:59:35 AM

Its interesting to note that Iga's games, in total, have only gotten about 20% of the votes, when he has been the supposed owner of the Castlevania story for most of its history beyond the 8-bit and 16-bit days.  I think that says a little something about his storytelling ability.

Or at least his general lack of interest for storytelling at all.

IGA's "vision" of Castlevania has always been quite removed from what the fans seem to appreciate; first of all, most fans seem to appreciate the gothic qualities of the story, while IGA has certainly made CV a whole lot "sillier" in his time. Second, he went around experimenting over the storyline in ways that almost always served the gameplay innovations of the latest title. He's always been a "game first, story second" producer in my eyes.
Title: Re: Best CV storyline poll
Post by: crystos on October 23, 2010, 11:41:33 AM
i actually liked c64's story. I never playe dthe legacy of darkness game tho.... lords of shadow was good. But I am wary of Kojima over complicated syndrome.. i stopped playing metal gear cuz of the  overly heavy story.
Title: Re: Best CV storyline poll
Post by: Richter on October 23, 2010, 11:54:08 AM
Aria Of Sorrow.
Title: Re: Best CV storyline poll
Post by: Hanniballistic on October 27, 2010, 06:39:02 PM
This poll almost doesn't seem fair considering the "story" elements of pretty much all the games were not the driving force behind them.  Just because it doesn't have a tight scripted plot doesn't make any of them a bad game, really.  Mario has had the same "the Princess has been captured by Bowser" story for more than 2 decades and no one has a problem with it because of the amazing gameplay.  I feel the same about Castlevania.  All that said, it's obvious that the most care was put into the plot of LoS, so unless you loved the intro to Haunted Castle for nostalgic reasons...
Title: Re: Best CV storyline poll
Post by: Munchy on October 28, 2010, 12:34:16 AM
He's always been a "game first, story second" producer in my eyes.

I quite like game makers to take this approach (well, I don't play action games for story, much less IGA's), but on the other hand, his games usually lack intricate level design to make them replayable.
Title: Re: Best CV storyline poll
Post by: Nagumo on October 28, 2010, 12:57:05 AM
Lords has the the same bare bones plot as any other Castlevania but it tries to hide that by drawing it out as much as possible, resulting is no plot development for most of the chapters, as well as dumb plot twist (manipulators manipulating manipulators, what) that are just there for the sake of plot twists. Especially the ending, like Yathzee pointed out, was pulled right out off the writer's ass.
(click to show/hide)
     

Aria has the best storyline by far. 
Title: Re: Best CV storyline poll
Post by: Valtiel on October 28, 2010, 01:32:59 AM

Aria has the best storyline by far. 

Uhuhuh.
Title: Re: Best CV storyline poll
Post by: DragonsAndCarpetBags on October 28, 2010, 01:40:29 AM
I've just completed LoS, but I have yet to get my hands on other titles so I can't form a proper opinion.

As for the Los story....

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Best CV storyline poll
Post by: Nagumo on October 28, 2010, 04:25:04 AM
Uhuhuh.

 :)
Title: Re: Best CV storyline poll
Post by: Richter on October 28, 2010, 02:49:35 PM
Yeah the ending of Aria is actually suggested from the start and makes actual sense, unlike the LOS "twist"
Title: Re: Best CV storyline poll
Post by: corneliab on October 30, 2010, 10:16:16 PM
Yeah the ending of Aria is actually suggested from the start and makes actual sense, unlike the LOS "twist"

Yeah, let's all compare a central plot point to a teaser.

It's always so stupid to see people bitch about the ending, as if the game FAILED to explain it. It's clear as day that the sequence's lack of explanation was purposeful- it's meant to spark curiosity while implying that the events will be explained later.
Title: Re: Best CV storyline poll
Post by: Valtiel on October 31, 2010, 02:23:28 AM
Yeah the ending of Aria is actually suggested from the start and makes actual sense, unlike the LOS "twist"

The LoS "twist" had a ton of foreshadowing; however, it relied on the user having some knowledge of the Dracula myth:

- Gabriel is a knight member of an holy order, of clear Christian faith; Vlad Tepes was a Christian ruler whose historical exploits are directly tied to the idea of defending Christianity from the Turks.

- Gabriel loses his wife to "the forces of evil" (or at least thinks so) until he finds out he is actually responsible for Marie's death, and this probably leads him to rethink his faith; one of the core myths surrounding Vlad Tepes is that his wife Elizabetha died while he was away fighting the Turks; he later discovered she suicided because she felt continously abandoned by him, and thus he cursed God for forcing him to fight instead of staying with her. Another myth has her suiciding because she's told he was captured and killed. The idea of Vlad falling from "holyness" (as much of a monster he was, he was still seen as a champion of Christianity in Europe) because he blames himself for losing his wife is the core of his mythos.

- One historical fact about Vlad Tepes (at least, it's historically recorded) is that he killed a lover for "lying" to him about being pregnant (she thought she was, it later came out she didn't). He went to her, she hug her and then stabbed her. Much like Gabriel's nightmares., and Claudia's death.

- Vlad Tepes was forced to pretty horrible solutions to push back the Turks (the infamous forest of the impaled) because the King of Hungary, Corvinus, a fellow Christian, posed as an ally but in truth cut his support from Rome. Corvinus is often brought in in vampire fiction as being a vampire or undead of sort too, and often as being responsible for Vlad's transformation.
No need to mention Zobek.

- Vlad is often depicted in fiction as being part of an holy order called "The Order of the Dragon" (Dracul means Dragon, in fact); one trait of the order was the blood red armor and crest.


I (and I guess a lot of other people) was completely expecting Gabe to become Dracula before playing the game. The amount of foreshadowing was overwhelming.
Title: Re: Best CV storyline poll
Post by: Nagumo on October 31, 2010, 02:59:41 AM
The ending felt too tacked on for me. A plot twist fails to be effective when not connected to the story in a way that is clearly explained regardless of being just a teaser. I'm just pointing out that in my opinion this is bad writing. I also didn't like the ending for reasons that have to do with the series itself but better not get into those.
                               
Title: Re: Best CV storyline poll
Post by: Valtiel on October 31, 2010, 03:05:12 AM
The ending felt too tacked on for me. A plot twist fails to be effective when not connected to the story in a way that is clearly explained regardless of being just a teaser. I'm just pointing out that in my opinion this is bad writing. I also didn't like the ending for reasons that have to do with the series itself but better not get into those.
                               

There is certainly a pretty big gap between the "first" ending and the "second" ending. If it's to be seen as closed package, the second ending is a big "WTF?" moment. There's a huge story to tell between the first and the second ending. Of course, it can be seen as potential to tell these stories, too. I think that's the intention. If the next game picks up from the second ending, the amount of unexplained stuff will be mindboggling.

As for the rest, without going indept, I think it's only natural that if a fan liked Mathias being Dracula and the whole Soma plotline, the ending to this game is a big, giant slap in the face. I can totally see the disappointment there.
Title: Re: Best CV storyline poll
Post by: Munchy on October 31, 2010, 03:33:37 AM
The ending felt too tacked on for me. A plot twist fails to be effective when not connected to the story in a way that is clearly explained regardless of being just a teaser. I'm just pointing out that in my opinion this is bad writing. I also didn't like the ending for reasons that have to do with the series itself but better not get into those.
                               

Yeah, I really did not understand why so many magazines touted it as one of the BEST ENDINGS EVAR. It just seemed completely random.