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The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: Richter on October 28, 2010, 05:06:33 PM

Title: LOS: unused locations (spoilers I guess)
Post by: Richter on October 28, 2010, 05:06:33 PM
So in Lords of Shadows, you actually get a lot of game play and level variety - but there still seemed like a few unused areas. One that sticks out is that kind of purple crystal cave that leads up to the Titan Graveyard... it's a whole environment that looked quite good just used for a short bit of climbing. I guess the clock tower could have been expanded too. Anything else ?
Title: Re: LOS: unused locations (spoilers I guess)
Post by: Vrakanox on October 28, 2010, 06:05:23 PM
That purple cave was one of the coolest parts of the whole game. When I got there I thought I'd be descending into some kind of dark abyss. Then I climbed out into the peaceful majestic land of the skeletons.  :-\
Title: Re: LOS: unused locations (spoilers I guess)
Post by: bobby digital on October 28, 2010, 11:35:07 PM
I really wish that whole area looked more like the concept art for the stage.
(click to show/hide)

The environment artwork is gorgeous.  Makes me wonder what a XBL/PSN 2D game with graphics styled in that manner instead of realism would be like.
Title: Re: LOS: unused locations (spoilers I guess)
Post by: Wallachia on October 28, 2010, 11:52:21 PM
The art for the epiloge movie, in the church modern day, Drac's throne and all that.. just awesome! I have a hunch it's all designed for LoS2, and they couldn't help but blow their load a bit and show it at the end of this game.. notice how the CG style is different too? Weird..
Title: Re: LOS: unused locations (spoilers I guess)
Post by: Richter on October 30, 2010, 03:59:09 AM
Another strange one - why is the Ice Titan sat next to Pan's Forest? There are plenty of other snowy locales that make sense because you travel north to Vampire town... but this? Is it just a magical lake or what?
Title: Re: LOS: unused locations (spoilers I guess)
Post by: thernz on October 30, 2010, 12:34:45 PM
it is the lake of the dead. it is frostbitten in DEATH.
Title: Re: LOS: unused locations (spoilers I guess)
Post by: Richter on November 01, 2010, 12:30:36 PM
Magic lake, gotcha  :P

Personally I would have loved the rainy village at the start to have been expanded, lots of good atmosphere. The clock tower should have been longer too. Also the music box could have been more than a puzzle? Maybe have an actual level based in there once you solve it. I like the design work, some of it should have been used some more.
Title: Re: LOS: unused locations (spoilers I guess)
Post by: bobby digital on November 01, 2010, 04:33:34 PM
Another strange one - why is the Ice Titan sat next to Pan's Forest? There are plenty of other snowy locales that make sense because you travel north to Vampire town... but this? Is it just a magical lake or what?
If you look at the map, the lake is actually well above Pan's forest in the mountains.
Title: Re: LOS: unused locations (spoilers I guess)
Post by: corneliab on November 01, 2010, 07:12:33 PM
I would've loved to see some of the areas expanded on. The forest area before Pan and the first part of the Titans Graveyard were spectacular, but you're only in there very briefly. The forest in particular was almost completely void of actual gameplay.
Title: Re: LOS: unused locations (spoilers I guess)
Post by: Thunderbrand on November 01, 2010, 09:30:46 PM
I kind of want more of the castle itself. The castle is massive and is gorgeously designed, especially the exterior (though I didn't like the layout that much---as I've said many times it seemed too much like Drac's castle in the Van Helsing movie). I wish more time was spent there though. I'm glad we get to go back there in the DLC.

The forest itself was pretty neat---that's when it REALLY started feeling like a CV. And that final scene in Chap 5-1 when you turn the corner and see the castle for the first time and the music changes & you run down the snowy path---that was just EPIC. Hopefully more stuff like that occurs in the DLC and the sequel.

Title: Re: LOS: unused locations (spoilers I guess)
Post by: Ahasverus on November 01, 2010, 10:00:25 PM
I would like to see more of the Lycan's land. And no, not Agharta, but the actual Lycan Realm, I thought that Aghrata was too happy to be the home of the lycan Master, the transition between that city and "The three towers" was not clear so I would like to see it expanded.
The Castle was of course underused but it made sense why, Drac's not there yet so the Castle was in his "primitive form", I can't wait to see how chaos transforms the Castle into a maze, I'm sure MS will make a great tale there.

And I also think we all can agree on how EPIC was the first sight at the Castle... it was so... unexpected... I mean, you were fighting chupacabras and orcs one second before they are the anthitesis of epic, then you turn around and OMFG the music changes and you see a MONSTER FUCKING CASTLE larger than life and with the classic "vortex at the top"; then you run to it but you just don't come close, it's collossal in itself.
No, that's how you design the Demon castle.
Title: Re: LOS: unused locations (spoilers I guess)
Post by: ShinAkumaXX on November 01, 2010, 10:18:08 PM
I knew I wasn't the only person sad about the area before the Ice Titan not turning out to be a level! That graveyard art does look pretty bad ass! Yeah, considering the clock tower is such a staple in most CVania's it did seem a bit short too. The clock towers are always so daunting in the 2D ones for me. That area before the Titan Graveyard looked pretty wild, but from what I remember it was very brief, you just climb up out of it real quick. Still it was plenty long for a CV. I suppose maybe they had to cut some stuff out, I wonder if some of those levels were expanded on then chopped? Everything was lovely short or long. Can't wait to see more. That was pretty sweet at the end when you see Slogra.
Title: Re: LOS: unused locations (spoilers I guess)
Post by: Thunderbrand on November 01, 2010, 10:31:12 PM
I may be in the minority here but I didn't think the clock tower was THAT short. I thought it was just about the right length & time it took to get through it. The jumping on platforms & gears (and the numerous times I fell to my death) was a good homage to the old games IMHO.

And I totally agree with what Ahasverus said about seeing the castle the 1st time. I knew it was coming at the end of that level but I didn't expect it to happen quite the way it did. I mean here I was smashing through a wall in a Goblin camp, and I'm walking down some path between mountains. I turn around a corner and...THERE...IT...WAS. And the music changing...that bell sound at the very beginning of whatever music track that is...just so awesome. I stood there just watching the vortex/castle/snow for a lonnnnnng time before running down the path to finish the level. That scene is just amazing. Still my fav part of LoS.

PS---anyone know what that music track mentioned above is?
Title: Re: LOS: unused locations (spoilers I guess)
Post by: corneliab on November 01, 2010, 10:39:37 PM
The Clock Tower IS short. Compare it to Legacy of Darkness' clock tower, which is more than a decade old.
Title: Re: LOS: unused locations (spoilers I guess)
Post by: Ahasverus on November 01, 2010, 10:41:05 PM
Clock tower? Who said it was the clock tower?
Last time I checked it was called GEAR tower.
Title: Re: LOS: unused locations (spoilers I guess)
Post by: Thunderbrand on November 01, 2010, 10:42:37 PM
The official level name is "Clockwork Tower"
Title: Re: LOS: unused locations (spoilers I guess)
Post by: corneliab on November 01, 2010, 10:43:10 PM
Clock tower? Who said it was the clock tower?
Last time I checked it was called GEAR tower.

You must've checked while under the influence, since it's called the CLOCKWORK Tower.
Title: Re: LOS: unused locations (spoilers I guess)
Post by: Ahasverus on November 01, 2010, 10:46:48 PM
What a tease  :o I play the spanish version and it's called "La torre del mecanismo" = "Gear Tower". Lost in translation for sure but.... in which direction? (there's no clock anywhere to be seen so...)
Title: Re: LOS: unused locations (spoilers I guess)
Post by: Thunderbrand on November 01, 2010, 10:49:46 PM
What a tease  :o I play the spanish version and it's called "La torre del mecanismo" = "Gear Tower". Lost in translation for sure but.... in which direction? (there's no clock anywhere to be seen so...)

I wondered that too cuz clocks weren't even invented in 1047 LOL. Same reason there was no clock tower in LoI. So who knows what all those gears were turning for...but I guess thats another time you have to suspend your disbelief and just go along with Frankenstein doing some weird stuff up there LOL
Title: Re: LOS: unused locations (spoilers I guess)
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on November 02, 2010, 08:06:33 AM
"La torre del mecanismo" actually translates into "The mechanism tower" or "The mechanical tower" (which is the name of the Clock Tower in Order of Ecclesia).
And usually, 'mechanisms' have some kind of clockwork devices on them, so it's not much of a translation error.

"Gear Tower" would be in Spanish "Torre de Engranajes" (which is really "The Tower of Gears"... which is the Clock Tower's name in Castlevania Chronicles/X68000).
Title: Re: LOS: unused locations (spoilers I guess)
Post by: thernz on November 02, 2010, 01:18:02 PM
I don't really understand LoI's logic for not having a gear stage (at least a stage in similar function) when it's perfectly fine with magically floating platforms.
Title: Re: LOS: unused locations (spoilers I guess)
Post by: Thunderbrand on November 02, 2010, 10:24:14 PM
I don't really understand LoI's logic for not having a gear stage (at least a stage in similar function) when it's perfectly fine with magically floating platforms.

If I remember correctly when LoI was released it was officially stated that there was no clocktower area because in 1094 the clock wasn't invented yet, so they wanted to stay historically accurate/consistent. Same reason there was no stopwatch subweapon. They put a clocktower in LoS and chalked it up to a mad scientist's weird experiments. Kind of a copout there if you ask me, but oh well.
Title: Re: LOS: unused locations (spoilers I guess)
Post by: crisis on November 02, 2010, 11:01:36 PM
Quote from: Thunderbird
If I remember correctly when LoI was released it was officially stated that there was no clocktower area because in 1094 the clock wasn't invented yet, so they wanted to stay historically accurate/consistent. Same reason there was no stopwatch subweapon. They put a clocktower in LoS and chalked it up to a mad scientist's weird experiments. Kind of a copout there if you ask me, but oh well.

I remember that being said too, i think it was a Game Informer or EGM interview or something. IGA was also beardless at the time. I wonder if COX-san will grow a beard??


I kinda wanna go back 'n play lament, but..
Title: Re: LOS: unused locations (spoilers I guess)
Post by: Alutwon on November 03, 2010, 04:42:05 AM
If I remember correctly when LoI was released it was officially stated that there was no clocktower area because in 1094 the clock wasn't invented yet, so they wanted to stay historically accurate/consistent. Same reason there was no stopwatch subweapon. They put a clocktower in LoS and chalked it up to a mad scientist's weird experiments. Kind of a copout there if you ask me, but oh well.

In LoS the machine tower looks like it's generating electricity to run the lab so I guess it's justified....
They were worrying about being historically accurate in a game about a demon caslte? Now that seems like a copout. They didn't put the one level in LoI that is almost guaranteed to have platforming because they wanted to be historically accurate.....*facepalm
Title: Re: LOS: unused locations (spoilers I guess)
Post by: thernz on November 03, 2010, 07:23:51 AM
Which LoI wasn't in a number of ways, from Renaissance-inspired dress to the Crusades happening after LoI.
Title: Re: LOS: unused locations (spoilers I guess)
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on November 03, 2010, 11:34:50 AM
Also there was a grandfather clock in one of the rooms.  I'm sure the designers just didn't get the memo about the whole 'no clocks' sillyness.
Accuracy Schmacuracy, I want my clock towers in my CV dammitall.
Title: Re: LOS: unused locations (spoilers I guess)
Post by: DragonSlayr81 on November 03, 2010, 03:18:33 PM
Also there was a grandfather clock in one of the rooms.  I'm sure the designers just didn't get the memo about the whole 'no clocks' sillyness.
Accuracy Schmacuracy, I want my clock towers in my CV dammitall.
^^^ Wasn't the grandfather clock somewhere in the Ghostly Theater? I could've sworn I saw some clocks there, which IS pretty damn strange.
Title: Re: LOS: unused locations (spoilers I guess)
Post by: Richter on November 03, 2010, 03:50:08 PM
I think the point is in a game full of crazy fantasy stuff nobody would have cared if that tower had an extra couple of floors above the mechanical creature boss fight which had a big extravagant clock mechanism and a few flying heads for good measure.
Title: Re: LOS: unused locations (spoilers I guess)
Post by: Thunderbrand on November 03, 2010, 07:26:54 PM
I think the point is in a game full of crazy fantasy stuff nobody would have cared if that tower had an extra couple of floors above the mechanical creature boss fight which had a big extravagant clock mechanism and a few flying heads for good measure.

Such a location would have to be somewhere else though, cuz you fight Olrox at the top of the clockwork tower, and then the door opens up to the Keep.
Title: Re: LOS: unused locations (spoilers I guess)
Post by: Alutwon on November 03, 2010, 11:05:27 PM
Why couldn't we just fight Olrox in front of the Clock face with the Moon in the background??? Gasp! They could have remixed moon fight into a battle theme....god forbid they use old tunes.
Title: Re: LOS: unused locations (spoilers I guess)
Post by: uzo on November 04, 2010, 09:40:14 AM
Old tunes are PROHIBITED. It's too Castlevania like.

We need to be generic and average, to draw in the casual crowd.
Title: Re: LOS: unused locations (spoilers I guess)
Post by: Valtiel on November 04, 2010, 09:53:57 AM
Old tunes are PROHIBITED. It's too Castlevania like.

We need to be generic and average, to draw in the casual crowd.


That's a fairly immature approach.

Be realistic: what's the odds that a new developer from another continent either was allowed to use some else's work in their game as they saw fit? Or that a composer would sit down with a "dude, we know you're good but we don't care, just remix us this stuff"?

They probably sit down and made a short list of songs that could be kept as "cameos" (ended up being 3 or 4) and then the new composer was allowed to do his job. A more respectful approach for him and also for the composer who came before and whose work wasn't "stolen" by some dude from Spain because some wig said so.


To make an example, if tomorrow Supermegawesome JRPG of Doom I comes out, and it sports Sakimoto's soundtrack, and then they do II and III, and then Sakimoto retires, when it's time to work on IV they'll need to get another guy to work on it. And said guy will have to do new music, as remixing Sakimoto's work would be humiliating for him and unfair for Sakimoto.

If LoS was an in-house product, it would have made a lot of sense to have the same tunes and more continuity. But outsourced to a spanish team?

I understand it's a pain because A) the traditional CV music is definitely catchier and has more personality and B) some of the remixes (Waterfall/Courtyard) are so bloody amazing that I can only wonder what they could have done with Simon's Theme and Bloody Tears; but I wouldn't read too much into this. They probably had no choice at all for this aspect.
Title: Re: LOS: unused locations (spoilers I guess)
Post by: Richter on November 04, 2010, 12:14:43 PM
Since the in-house team just made Harmony Of Despair, which is full of CV tunes but isnt actually worth playing, I'll take the good game with little use of classic music instead.  :P

Quote
Why couldn't we just fight Olrox in front of the Clock face with the Moon in the background??? Gasp!

Would have been pretty epic.
Title: Re: LOS: unused locations (spoilers I guess)
Post by: uzo on November 04, 2010, 12:54:26 PM

That's a fairly immature approach.

Be realistic: what's the odds that a new developer from another continent either was allowed to use some else's work in their game as they saw fit? Or that a composer would sit down with a "dude, we know you're good but we don't care, just remix us this stuff"?

They probably sit down and made a short list of songs that could be kept as "cameos" (ended up being 3 or 4) and then the new composer was allowed to do his job. A more respectful approach for him and also for the composer who came before and whose work wasn't "stolen" by some dude from Spain because some wig said so.


To make an example, if tomorrow Supermegawesome JRPG of Doom I comes out, and it sports Sakimoto's soundtrack, and then they do II and III, and then Sakimoto retires, when it's time to work on IV they'll need to get another guy to work on it. And said guy will have to do new music, as remixing Sakimoto's work would be humiliating for him and unfair for Sakimoto.

If LoS was an in-house product, it would have made a lot of sense to have the same tunes and more continuity. But outsourced to a spanish team?

I understand it's a pain because A) the traditional CV music is definitely catchier and has more personality and B) some of the remixes (Waterfall/Courtyard) are so bloody amazing that I can only wonder what they could have done with Simon's Theme and Bloody Tears; but I wouldn't read too much into this. They probably had no choice at all for this aspect.

I'm pretty sure order of shadows had a fair bit of remixes. They were on another continent, correct?

Despite that the remixes in los were pretty far gone off the deep end enough to say the majoity of the song was completely new, and the small tidbits that were barrowed were often unrecognisable without close study or someone pointing it out after the fact. Bloody amazing isn't what id use to describe any of the so called remixes.

There were a ton of reused tracks in this game, and thered be no reason not to include more remixes. Its not insulting to ask for a few, especially since the ost had hardly any and what was there barely qualifies as a remix. Also he signed on to a Castlevania project, so its kind of a given from the start.
Title: Re: LOS: unused locations (spoilers I guess)
Post by: thernz on November 04, 2010, 01:13:29 PM
LoS's intent is just confusing. Why would they make a hardcore game to draw in casual fans? Its musical composition is also discarding many assets that would draw in casual fans as well, catchiness and etc, you know the whole popular music thing. N-Not that it's a bad thing. it's a very nice thing to attempt even if it wasn't as well-executed as i wish it could be.

Also, I am not sure why people keep thinking that if it went the route of traditional CV games music-wise would mean that it would just be full of remixes, because barring spin offs like despair and judgment, the games had mostly original soundtracks, even in classic games.
Title: Re: LOS: unused locations (spoilers I guess)
Post by: Ahasverus on November 04, 2010, 04:34:33 PM

That's a fairly immature approach.
Inmature and uzo mix really well in a paragraph believe me lol :joke:
Seriously, you really have not heard a "generic" score, otherwise you wouldn't be calling Oscar's masterpiece like that. Wanna hear generic?
- Vanquish
- Enslaved
- Assassins Creed 1 (2 was great)
- Hanz Zimmer's scores (except Pirates of the caribbean and the batman films) prme example: modern Warfare
- Final Fantasy XIII
- Castlevania ROB (sad but true)
Title: Re: LOS: unused locations (spoilers I guess)
Post by: uzo on November 04, 2010, 05:26:00 PM
Inmature and uzo mix really well in a paragraph believe me lol :joke:
You know it.

- Vanquish
- Enslaved
- Assassins Creed 1 (2 was great)
- Hanz Zimmer's scores (except Pirates of the caribbean and the batman films) prme example: modern Warfare
- Final Fantasy XIII
Fixed your list. Rondo might not have been the strongest but it sure as hell doesn't come close to being in THAT category. Lords wasn't as bad as those listed, I guess I can agree there, but its not leaps and bounds beyond them either. I get about the same feeling in the long run.
Title: Re: LOS: unused locations (spoilers I guess)
Post by: Alutwon on November 04, 2010, 06:07:46 PM
Rondo's ost is far from bad it just focuses a lot more on the upbeat end of the castlevania sound spectrum and I tend to enjoy it, it really goes with the rest of the game.

As for LoS I think we all would be a little more lenient if the music were tied to the levels instead of being tied to Gabriel's current mood.
Title: Re: LOS: unused locations (spoilers I guess)
Post by: Ahasverus on November 04, 2010, 07:57:06 PM
I think ROB soundtrack was good, but generic anyways, generic 90's japo-pop, I wouldn't mind hearing those tracks in a Contra or Parodius or Final Fight (Not all trakcs of course, there are some astounding ones as the pre-boss and boss batle themes, best in the series IMO)
Title: Re: LOS: unused locations (spoilers I guess)
Post by: thernz on November 04, 2010, 09:07:59 PM
The pre-boss song, which is probably 5 seconds in length on constant loop, one verse over and over again with one instrument, is one of the best in the series.
Title: Re: LOS: unused locations (spoilers I guess)
Post by: DragonSlayr81 on November 04, 2010, 09:10:56 PM
I never cared for RoB's OST. I think the only song I liked was the remix of Bloody Tears, which had a sort of Pat Benatar umph to it. Didn't care for the overall style of songs(some focused on electronic jazz beats and such). The only thing is, they fit within the context of the game to the point that they aren't horrible, but really didn't stand out as being anything special. In the midst of the game, they are simply "passable".

Title: Re: LOS: unused locations (spoilers I guess)
Post by: Ahasverus on November 04, 2010, 09:37:11 PM
The pre-boss song, which is probably 5 seconds in length on constant loop, one verse over and over again with one instrument, is one of the best in the series.
Irony isn't it? that ever looping song creates more tension than every other boss battle music from Yamane.
Title: Re: LOS: unused locations (spoilers I guess)
Post by: Alutwon on November 04, 2010, 09:52:03 PM
Former Room is great but I always preferred rondo's version of Poison Mind.