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The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: le052383 on January 06, 2011, 06:45:30 AM

Title: Anyone thinks that LOS has a better origin story than LOI?(plz use spoiler tags)
Post by: le052383 on January 06, 2011, 06:45:30 AM
Not trying to start a bash fest here, but does anybody thinks that Gabriel's story is more interesting than Leon's?  I replayed the intro of LOI this morning and realized how corny the story is.  It is not as bad as it sounds, but it is written like your typical cartoon plot.

Just that I like the direction that Cox took by adding elements of CV4 (going to the castle later in the game) rather than having the game set completely inside the place like most of Iga's CV games.

Gabriel looks more like a Belmont than Leon.  However, we know that Kojima likes to make her men pretty, so it isn't really the fault of the such a certain game producer.  I think it is just an artistic taste made by the lead artist.

Both games have a good way to introduce the first Belmont, but I think Lords(I haven't past it yet) executed it better.  However, Lords came out years later and it is obvious that they borrowed story elements from Lament like the Order, though they improved upon it by making them fight monsters rather than humans from waring lands.  I still applaud IGA for making Lament since the direction of having the knights of order is an excellent idea.

Anyone feels the same way or like Lament better?
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: Munchy on January 06, 2011, 07:21:32 AM
Far better in terms of foreshadowing. But beneath it all it's still the same tired "HAHA IM UR FREND N I BETARYD U LOLOL" plot with a pinch of "NOOO MY WYF Z DED KILL U :(" that games totally don't have enough of already. I ask again, why are so many Castlevania plot points around dead wives? It's practically exactly what happens in LoI except it's a Belmont doing it this time for more shock value.

Honestly, I hate both origin stories. I was fine with Dracula simply being the historical Vlad Dracula III. Fuck Anakin, give me the already-coolified version, Darth Vader. Why not explain other stuff like the Castle's history (which I'll admit, I did like those bits in LoS)?
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: Flame on January 06, 2011, 11:50:33 AM
They were both good, but Lament did better at explaining how Dracula came to be and why, and why the Belmonts are sworn to hunt the night.

It also not only made an origins for the Belmonts, but for Vampire Killer as well. We see how it became Vampire killer, and why it is bound specifically to Belmont blood, leading to life energy drainage and premature death in anyone not of Belmont blood who tries to wield it at it's full power.

Lords of Shadow on the other hand, was more structured like a movie. And yet, this is not like MGS, where the game is big on cutscenes, but rather the gameplay itself feels like part of the movie as well. The camera helps with this by actually acting like a real camera. it gets wet with drops of rain or snow, and is NEVER still, when you stand there, jittering around slightly as if someone was holding it.

Gabriel as a Belmont works pretty well, he is reminiscent of Simon from CVll, (armor) and fits in with John Morris of being built like a truck.

However, they didnt explain properly in the game, WHY or HOW he becomes Dracula, only now going to add on to that with DLC which supposedly gives us insight, or the origins of the Combat cross, other than Rinaldo making it and it's enhancements, making the weapon more of a side element to the story, as opposed to the actual characters themselves. They leave it open to guess just how the future will play out, considering that a Belmont is Dracula.

Interesting note though, both Belmont clan founders- Leon in the IGA verse and Gabriel in the Cox verse, both loose their beloveds, spurring them to hunt down unholy creatures of the night.

I do live the combat cross though. pretty creative imagining of the classic Castlevania chain whip seen in the games.

speaking of which, I DO love that Gabriel sprite up there on the top banner.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: Alutwon on January 06, 2011, 02:32:00 PM
Lords of Shadow's story isn't over yet so I can't comment.

Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: PFG9000 on January 06, 2011, 02:47:37 PM
Lords of Shadow has the better story, but it's important for an origin story to feel faithful to the source material, and LoS fails at that.  Even though it's 3D, Lament feels very much like a Castlevania.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: Ahasverus on January 06, 2011, 04:20:58 PM
I agree.. even if most of the story is still unkown is more believable than the cliched anime fest of LoI
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: Flame on January 06, 2011, 05:10:17 PM
Lords of Shadow has the better story, but it's important for an origin story to feel faithful to the source material, and LoS fails at that. 
Because the idea was to depart from the source material in a new direction.

Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: X on January 06, 2011, 05:15:34 PM
In terms of the gameplay I'd chose LoI cause it feels like a CV game. But for Dracula origin stories they both lose out. Dracula should only be introduced when he's supposed to: 1462. Mathias shouldv'e been like Walter. A mere stepping stone on the way to introducing the true king of vampires.

-X
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: VeteranVk on January 06, 2011, 05:17:39 PM
LoS and LoI are very similar but so far Im going to say LoS' presentation 1ups Lament, at least until we see the DLC which could make things either better or worse. While LoI wasn't a bad game I feel that it strayed too much from Dracula's origin, until that point, it really did seem that aside from CV1, the series did take its origins from the real VladIII and even more so with Bloodlines Grandfathering in Bram Stoker's novel. I hate to persecute LoI because I really did enjoy it, but unfortunately, its a game that followed the Hollywood trend of giving Dracula an origin making him far older then he really is (see Dracula 2000). LoS while also a great game, had also taken a cue from Lament in this area. Both are good games, both have similar stories, LoS does it better than LoI and in the end for me neither one really works for the series as a beginning.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: whitedragon_nall on January 06, 2011, 07:10:22 PM
I agree.. even if most of the story is still unkown is more believable than the cliched anime fest of LoI

Anime? What was so anime about it? How was LoS "believable"? The story in LoI was also basing itself of the whole "Death of Elisabeta" origin story....which is the popular origin of Dracula.

I'd go with LoI. I found it more enjoyable and it had better character development. We saw how the Belmont's began their hunt, how the whip came to be, and why Dracula formed into the bad guy we know today.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: SIRHardle on January 06, 2011, 08:04:44 PM
LOI had a better plot and was way better executed and concise than LOS' and its holes.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: DragonSlayr81 on January 06, 2011, 08:17:09 PM
Anime? What was so anime about it? How was LoS "believable"? The story in LoI was also basing itself of the whole "Death of Elisabeta" origin story....which is the popular origin of Dracula.
It's just Ahasverus showing his LoS pride again. He always does things like that, even if the way he props LoS seems condescending. ;D

Regarding which had a better story, both were similar, but I liked LoI more because it focused on the matter at hand. The point was to show the origins of why the Belmonts were vampire hunters, how they got the Vampire Killer whip and how Dracula's origin. It answered all of those and by the end we knew why the Belmonts were tied to Dracula, why they must "hunt the night" and basically know what comes, historically, after.

LoS, the story had more narrative, but it was nearly similar(hero being lead around to do something by a friend, then is betrayed by that friend, who uses the outcome for an evil intention). LoS might have fleshed out the story better, but LoI did it first when comparing the two, so I give LoI a tally for that. Also, as far as origins are concerned, LoS isn't over, which I never quite cared for the idea of a game NOT being "complete"(and DLC, or side stories were the only way to complete it). IMO, DLC should be strictly limited to "non-main story content". Leaving hooks and holes big enough so you could come back later and fill them up seems pretty lazy. Either you make a complete game, or announce that you are cutting it up into multiple installments(like the Xenosaga trilogy). Don't leave questions unless you are gong to sit on the ending as bieng ambiguous. Y'know, JUST for the sake of having fans write their own fanfics and such. I mean, Final Fantasy VIII was fine left the way it was. It didn't nead a compliation to explain the little things that happened the years before and after.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: Oralox on January 06, 2011, 08:24:33 PM
Lords of Shadow's story isn't over yet so I can't comment.

Same here
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: Sindra on January 06, 2011, 08:34:33 PM
Because the idea was to depart from the source material in a new direction.



You can't fully depart from the source material, though. If you do, it becomes a whole new game and nothing reminiscent of the title series it's supposed to be a party of. You can take things in a different direction or reinterpret things, surely....but departing from source material too much was LoS's flaw, IMO. (so far, though this could turn around due to the DLC....god willing)

And Ahasverus, LoI didn't have anime anything in it. It was romanticized gothic. Kindly get your facts straight before going on your Lords of Shadow wankfest, please.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: Hanniballistic on January 06, 2011, 08:37:32 PM
I'm actually kind of pissed that the story isn't finished yet.  So, how much am I paying for this game in its entirety?  That said, I can comment regardless if it's "done" or not.  If we are basing this solely on the story elements and not how it's told (LoS is pretty as hell, LoI, while beautiful, is showing age) then LoI wins hands down.  I loved LoS, but the EPICNESS of the whole thing just turns me off.  In a way, LoI feels like an indie film compared to big ol' blockbuster LoS.  I don't know, I'm rootin' for the little guy. :/
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: darkwzrd4 on January 06, 2011, 08:55:10 PM
I too, can't say either way yet, because LoS's Dracula origin isn't fully explained yet.  Both games were good, but LoS has  better execution and graphics.  Plus, it has a darker nature.  In LoI, the hero (Leon) is a pure-hearted, in-corruptable knight trying to rescue his love.  LoS on the other hand, the hero (Gabriel) is on a quest to save the world and is told that he may be able to bring back is dead wife.  Also, unlike Leon, Gabriel's personally it changes as he gets farther in the quest.  I mean each QTE at the end of boss fights he becomes increasingly brutal.  It's as if the more demons he fights, the more like them he becomes.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: whitedragon_nall on January 06, 2011, 09:11:11 PM
I didn't really feel that way about Gabriel's personality. IMO...Zobek's narrations about Gabriel diving into madness and going insane were never realized. Sure...he may have been more brutal, but being crazier in combat and crazier in mind are two very different things. By the end of the game (before the credits), I felt like he was the same guy.....just more sad.

Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: Dremn on January 06, 2011, 10:29:06 PM
Lament's was kinda boring but it worked. LoS's was poorly written but far more interesting that I want to see where the story is going. However, we have yet to see how Dracula ties into the new timeline at all.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: A-Yty on January 07, 2011, 12:53:15 AM
From the spoilers I've seen, I think I prefer LoI's. Even thought it has the oh-so-overused best friend betrayal, I felt that the former friendship between a Belmont and the man who would become Dracula was interesting. Could have been a hell of a lot more interesting, but as an origin story it was still decent.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: GuyStarwind on January 07, 2011, 03:26:20 AM
I was thinking of writing a big long list explaining reasons but chose not to. So, I'll make it simple. I think LoI has the better origins story.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: DragonsAndCarpetBags on January 07, 2011, 04:46:07 AM
Quote
I loved LoS, but the EPICNESS of the whole thing just turns me off

E...P...I...C..... I tell ya, it's all 300's fault. Not to shame the movie.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: Hanniballistic on January 07, 2011, 06:11:23 AM
E...P...I...C..... I tell ya, it's all 300's fault. Not to shame the movie.

Shame it all you want, it was a horrible movie!  Not to de-rail the topic, but I just want to throw it out there that Frank Miller is grossly overrated.  Love his art, but his writing is terrible.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: Evil_Tim on January 07, 2011, 07:40:16 AM
LoS has the key advantage that the story is usually at least hanging around near the action, LoI has whole stretches where absolutely nothing is happening in terms of story.

"Hey there, Leon. Walter has stolen your shit and you need this whip and alchemy and alchemy and alchemy and also this box of exposition. If you want to free your friends, solve his House of Sacred Remains!"

<walking and pushing of organ stops ensues as Leon ponders what on Earth a vampire has a House of Sacred Remains for anyway>

"So hi there I'm that one boss from R-Type."

"Hey there, do you have something to do with the actual story?"

"Naw, I'm just chilling in this room that has nothing to do with the theme of the rest of the level and doesn't look like it either."

"Oh."

Zobek's narration is kind of handy for finding out what This Place has to do with That Place You Were Just At and what you're actually doing there, even if it does sound like he's lusting after Gabriel half the time ("he doesn't see me following him...Yes, Gabriel, DO your ab crunches!"). Aside from all the eco-nonsense (yes, man is encroaching the hell out of nature, it's only 800 years until the Industrial Revolution after all) and the rather pointless addition of the Ancient And Powerful Race That Has No Real Bearing On Anything, it all hangs together rather well.

As for the origin story, LoS is kind of a no-show on that, it pulls the Daredevil trick of showing you the character's origin minus the part where they actually got all their stuff; in this case, minus even the part where he actually becomes a vampire. So LoI more or less wins by default through actually having one, even though it's not a good one; seriously, Mathias would go from best friend to ruining Leon's life on purpose that fast?
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: A-Yty on January 07, 2011, 09:18:57 AM
Mathias became a vampire when he stole Walter's soul with the stone. And he cooked up his crazy plan for at least a year. I think it's unclear if Sara's death was part of his plan but he certainly didn't give a shit.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: Evil_Tim on January 07, 2011, 01:06:49 PM
Mathias became a vampire when he stole Walter's soul with the stone.

Yeah, I mean we never see how LoS' Dracula is supposed to have become a vampire, that's why LoI has one up on LoS when it comes to origin story, on the basis it actually has one.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on January 07, 2011, 02:42:33 PM
"he doesn't see me following him...Yes, Gabriel, DO your ab crunches!"

I Lawl'd. xD
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: PFG9000 on January 07, 2011, 04:19:27 PM
Because the idea was to depart from the source material in a new direction.

No, the idea was to reboot the series.  If you reboot a series and ignore the source material except for reusing a handful of names for entirely different characters, you no longer have the same series.  So whatever LoS is an origin story of, it sure as hell isn't Castlevania.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: A-Yty on January 07, 2011, 06:07:56 PM
It still brings us to the question of what makes Castlevania?

There is no whip. There is a chain attached to a cross and it's not Vampire Killer.
There is namedropping.
There is no candles (?)
No familiar boss battles (?).
No Stoker-inspired gothic athmosphere.
No CVish music.
There is a castle.
There is no Death (?)

etc.

And I swear to God, I remember reading in this particular forum that someone said they would even be willing to get rid of the name "Castlevania". Castlevania without Castlevania. Let that sink in for a moment.

If there is a majority of long-time CV fans who say this isn't very much like Castlevania, isn't that enough? Overall it seems that those who accept this as being truly Castlevania, accept the ideal of riding its fame while doing a new thing and acknowledging it forgot its roots. I mean, I'm not particularly sure what the majority thinks but so it seems at least.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: darkwzrd4 on January 07, 2011, 10:15:17 PM
It still brings us to the question of what makes Castlevania?

There is no whip. There is a chain attached to a cross and it's not Vampire Killer.
There is namedropping.
There is no candles (?)
No familiar boss battles (?).
No Stoker-inspired gothic athmosphere.
No CVish music.
There is a castle.
There is no Death (?)

etc.

And I swear to God, I remember reading in this particular forum that someone said they would even be willing to get rid of the name "Castlevania". Castlevania without Castlevania. Let that sink in for a moment.

If there is a majority of long-time CV fans who say this isn't very much like Castlevania, isn't that enough? Overall it seems that those who accept this as being truly Castlevania, accept the ideal of riding its fame while doing a new thing and acknowledging it forgot its roots. I mean, I'm not particularly sure what the majority thinks but so it seems at least.

This is why I think LoS should not have the CV label and be its own separate series while CV stays CV and continues the storyline as it was before LoS came out.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: A-Yty on January 07, 2011, 10:42:47 PM
And it's why I still think it originally was like that.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: Evil_Tim on January 08, 2011, 01:46:37 AM
There is no candles (?)

There's candles in the castle among the various destructable scenery, but they're not everywhere and it's not like any attention is drawn to them. I'd say the more un-CVish thing is there's no wall meat. :(

No familiar boss battles (?)

They kinda try for that with Evil Butcher and Gravedigger, and if you're pushing it you might count Olrox, Brauner and Carmilla (even though none of them are like their 2D versions), but yeah, it was rather disappointing to see generic statue-monsters when you could at least have been climbing all over Galamoth or something.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: Kingshango on January 08, 2011, 02:02:25 AM
There is no Death (?)


Death is in the game at least. (debatable)
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: DarkPrinceAlucard on January 08, 2011, 03:33:47 AM
Death is in the game at least. (debatable)

really?

where!? *looks around eagerly*
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: Evil_Tim on January 08, 2011, 03:39:32 AM
Well, Zobek's narration tells us the last Lord of Shadow is Death. Thing is, you fight the Dracolich Titan instead of the final Lord, so there's no actual Death boss. (Trying to avoid spoilers here, as you can probably tell)
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: crisis on January 08, 2011, 03:39:55 AM
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages1.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20101021062912%2Fcastlevania%2Fimages%2Fd%2Fdc%2FLords_of_Shadow_Spoiler3.jpg&hash=4c0f5b46a1c0c7d0e35aa930506fce51c77a4299)

"Zobek was once a brave fighter and a sage wizard, wise above all others.
He was a good man, much loved and respected. Along with Cornell and Carmilla,
Zobek founded the order to which Gabriel belongs: The Brotherhood of Light.
Yet pride drove him to seek even more power, to fight against the evil and
injustices he saw all around him. He was corrupted by the very desire to do good
and, in the end, was punished for it. When his spirit ascended to Heaven that
fateful night, the empty corpse that he left behind became the Necromancer; an
evil reflection of everything that he represented. Lord of all the Dead, he is
death personified and with his knowledge of the dark arts none may stand against
him, living or dead."


(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv119%2Fc0mbat%2Flod.png&hash=bc9339d4b1761a42ac1bd83efe8feefd1535c0dc)
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: DarkPrinceAlucard on January 08, 2011, 04:33:08 AM
ssooooe HE is supposed to be the new death?

i have to say i'm dissapointed if that true.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: Flame on January 08, 2011, 08:22:36 AM
Why? because he isnt a floating legless skeleton with a scythe? what "Death" looks like personified is wholly up to interpretation. not to mention we never see his actual face due to the devil mask. all the other necromancers totally look like the classic CV death though.

now, as to what it has-

A chain whip? yes- Like in many castlevanias. Just not named vampire killer, and given a cross shaped hilt and made retractable.

Daggers and holy water? totally.

Item crush? The dark crystals count as this.

Candles? has them in the castle.

Familiar enemies? Tons.

Familar bosses? sort of, most are complete re-imaginings of the previous character. Evil butcher was originally a stage enemy

Mythos nods up the wazoo? super check. Special mention goes to Rinaldo, and his involvement in making the whip.  And the "vampire killer" extension, giving the whip it's trademark name in a way. As well as The castle belonging to the Bernhards and the fact that it is a living entity.

Platforming? yes. much like classicvanias

Familiar areas? mmmm... sort of. Theres a village, a castle, a clockwork tower, and hell. but then theres ruins of an ancient civilization and a forest, which is kind of new territory. Then theres Crows pass, which is sort of in between. Literally, both ways.

A journey to the castle? AKA the whole game does not take place inside a castle? check. much like a few classicvanias.

The Belmont in question himself? Based on the original "manly" look before they became pretty boys with Richter. He is also based around Simon's outfit from CV2.

But alas, there are no bone pillars. How can it be a castlevania game without bone pillars?

if anything, its the first half of the game until the castle that feels completely foreign.

Also, folks, again, this game was ALWAYS castlevania. It was pitched as such, and developed as such. Konami was just unsure of branding it with the trademark name for a short while and decided to reveal it as simply "Lords of Shadow" so it would be an IP, only later greenlighting the title.

Right from the Cox himself.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: Evil_Tim on January 08, 2011, 08:58:07 AM
A chain whip? yes- Like in many castlevanias. Just not named vampire killer, and given a cross shaped hilt and made retractable.

It is actually called Vampire Killer a couple of times in Zobek's narration, if I remember rightly.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: le052383 on January 08, 2011, 09:17:06 AM
It is actually called Vampire Killer a couple of times in Zobek's narration, if I remember rightly.

I am not sure if Zobek said anything about the whip being called such (haven't beat it yet,) but the creator of the whip does calls it such.  I just gotten the stake add-on last night and the text mentions how the creator of the whip dubs the morning star the "Vampire Killer" because of the stake attatchment
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: A-Yty on January 08, 2011, 01:59:42 PM
Actually, if Zobek is Death, it might not be a bad idea.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: Flame on January 08, 2011, 02:52:14 PM
Zobek being Death actually gives Death and Dracula an actual relationship, as opposed to Death being merely Dracula's servant.

Also, thats the thing. the whip is never explicitly named vampire killer, but the stake attachment is, and is said to have made the whip be nicknamed vampire killer.

Also, Zobek does say it. "Meet Gabriel Belmont, and his Vampire Killer" or something like that
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: A-Yty on January 08, 2011, 03:00:46 PM
I wouldn't go that far. I'd prefer Death as Dracula's servant. It made him stand out. Who could be more of a badass than a guy who has Death himself working for him? The thing about Death in ClasscVania was that he was never given enough room as his own character. The exceptions I've witnessed were LoI and CoD.

As for LoS' origin out or in the CV franchise, I'm not going to open that can of worms. Just saying that it's unlikely they'd admit it was originally its own thing.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: crisis on January 08, 2011, 03:07:26 PM
At first I thought the Combat Cross was pretty lame, but I must admit I've grown accustomed to it. Hopefully we'll get to see Rinaldo in the DLC (but they might butcher his "image" somehow, haha)

also I think Flame is obsessed with manly men/largeness in general

Quote
Based on the original "manly" look before they became pretty boys with Richter
Quote
LoI's whipping. Only upped on steroids.
Quote
he is reminiscent of Simon from CVll, (armor) and fits in with John Morris of being built like a truck.
Quote
I always found it amusing how Morris in Bloodlines has this HUGE frame. The guy is seriously buff.

LOL just messin' with ya buddy :D
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: Flame on January 08, 2011, 03:12:33 PM
Even then, LoI just gave him a voice and small bit of personality. He was still sort of shallow. I never understood why Death serves whoever has the crimson stone. Whats in it for him? WHY did he serve Walter?

At first I thought the Combat Cross was pretty lame, but I must admit I've grown accustomed to it. Hopefully we'll get to see Rinaldo in the DLC (but they might butcher his "image" somehow, haha)

also I think Flame is obsessed with manly men/largeness in general

LOL just messin' with ya buddy :D
Lol. I see what you did there.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: A-Yty on January 08, 2011, 03:19:13 PM
Is there a whip noise? Or just a GoWesque soft slice without balls?
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: DragonSlayr81 on January 08, 2011, 03:56:50 PM
Even then, LoI just gave him a voice and small bit of personality. He was still sort of shallow. I never understood why Death serves whoever has the crimson stone. Whats in it for him? WHY did he serve Walter?
Lol. I see what you did there.
Death NEVER served Walter. That's a misconception that many picked(as well as believing Walter's "You betrayed me!!" was meant for Death, when it was ACTUALLY meant for Mathias). It didn't even state specificially that Death serves Mathias SOLELY because he wields the Crimson Stone(as IGA says, the Crimson Stone was just a means for Mathias to become immortal, and it becomes useless afterwards, yet Death still stays loyal to Dracula, even after Dracula's soul is born into Soma, and the Crimson Stone is forever gone). I think Mathias's alliance with Death was forged through some other means. He was just announcing that he was offering Walter's soul to the one who kept the Crimson Stone(which was Mathias). Walter could only stand at Death's threshold if he was widdled down by a powerful warrior who wielded the only means of harming such a vampire, the Vampire Killer. Death couldn't just kill Walter and give his soul to Mathias to become a powerful Vampire himself. Considering what Death is, and what vampires are, Death has no dominion over immortals(duh, they can't die).

As for Zobek being Death, I'd rather not. I never was fond of the idea that Death was once an actual human being. It's an idea that was tossed around in fanfic theories on this board before. To me, Death should always be death. A being the transcends creation, at the most, or at the least, I might be able to swallow Death only being human once if he was the FIRST human(Adam, or something), died and was offered the role to usher all of life to the netherworld. But Death being some knight? I can't swallow that. Death should be far more ancient than that. Original Death had the idea right(even appearing as some strange Death God in SotN, like that was what he was worshiped as by some ancient civilization). I can only swallow Zobek as being Lord of the Necromancers.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: Evil_Tim on January 08, 2011, 04:01:50 PM
if he was widdled down by a powerful warrior

Oh christ now you're making me imagine Leon bursting in and peeing on Walter's leg.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: Flame on January 08, 2011, 04:05:04 PM
Well it's certainly no lie that Leon pretty much pissed all over Walter!
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: crisis on January 08, 2011, 04:16:22 PM
I believe CVIII's manual (Japanese or American, don't remember which) stated that Dracula became who he is by making a pact with an evil deity/demon. Lament only filled in the blanks by making that spirit Death (although it could also be argued that CHAOS was responsible as well).


But as for why Death continues to remain loyal to Dracula..
don't you have any idea why a raven is like a writing desk?
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: DarkPrinceAlucard on January 08, 2011, 04:24:32 PM

As for Zobek being Death, I'd rather not. I never was fond of the idea that Death was once an actual human being. It's an idea that was tossed around in fanfic theories on this board before. To me, Death should always be death. A being the transcends creation, at the most, or at the least, I might be able to swallow Death only being human once if he was the FIRST human(Adam, or something), died and was offered the role to usher all of life to the netherworld. But Death being some knight? I can't swallow that. Death should be far more ancient than that. Original Death had the idea right(even appearing as some strange Death God in SotN, like that was what he was worshiped as by some ancient civilization). I can only swallow Zobek as being Lord of the Necromancers.

Hey flame THIS ^^^ sums up why i'm not a fan of the LOS Death.

Death once being a human is completely lame since he is supposed to be this being who's age and origin or unkown and yet so mysterious. Death is supposed to be just that.....DEATH which means he is supposed to be around since early creation of man. having him once human takes away all that makes Death what he is which is a being who has forever been far above that of pety mortals
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: A-Yty on January 08, 2011, 04:34:11 PM
But as for why Death continues to remain loyal to Dracula..
don't you have any idea why a raven is like a writing desk?

I'm guessing this is a reference to some classic play, book or movie I have yet to see, but I would like to know the answer  ;D

Despite watering down the Judeo-Christian mythology of CV, I thought the Crimson Stone as a plot device was nice. Since the stone "chooses its owner", it isn't just some artifact any asshole vampire could find and claim. It chose Mathias as the right hand of chaos. And Death is understandably eager to serve someone like that. He obviously needs an agent/master like Dracula. If he was completely free to do anything, he wouldn't need to serve anyone.

And..I'm going to retract my statement about Zobek. I thought it was just another disposable persona for Death (like Zead), but it seems I was mistaken which makes it not so great :-[
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: Dominus on January 08, 2011, 05:24:27 PM
Hopefully we'll get to see Rinaldo in the DLC (but they might butcher his "image" somehow, haha)

they could make Laura the new Justine
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: le052383 on January 08, 2011, 05:57:09 PM
I have not beaten Lords yet (so I can be wrong here), but I have the belief that Pan is going to be Death since he has access to the dead world, showed Gabriel a flashback where he kills his wife and appeared with Gabriel killed that girl(I am thinking that Pan killed the girl to corrupt) and as an eagle, told Gabriel that he isn't helping him and is merely helping himself, which gives me an assumption that he is only helping Gabriel to further his own plan. Perhaps Pan wants to cause chaos so that he can get more souls for the underworld of something. PAn can also change his appearance so maybe Death is his true form. I would imagine Death working with Dracula not as a servent, but more as partners since it would benefit him somehow.

Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: darkwzrd4 on January 08, 2011, 06:22:11 PM
Here is my interpretation of everything:
LoI
Death only associates with the owner of the Crimson Stone because the owner is in essence the strongest immortal.  He only stays loyal to Dracula because Dracula's goal is the otter slaughter of mortals, thus giving Death plenty of souls to hunt.

LoS
Zobek is not Death.  He is just the Lord of the Necromancers.  As lord, he is the strongest one and being that necromancers have power over all dead entities, Zobek is also Lord of the Dead.  In this game, there is no one being called Death.  The closest things are the reapers fought in the Necromancer's Abyss and the Final Battle.  I also remember reading that necromancers may be able to manipulate them.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: Kingshango on January 08, 2011, 08:31:21 PM
I've gone though the last few chapters of the game again and they're some scrolls(as well as Zobeks narration) that refer the lord of the necromancers as Death.

And going by all the posts about this manner, I can think of only two things:

1. Death has been reduced to a lesser enemy, thus becoming a complete weaking in this timeline.

2. There is no Death in this timeline at all.


My theory: Zobek>>Death>>>>Necromancers>>>>>>>Reapers
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: le052383 on January 08, 2011, 08:51:03 PM
Can we knock it off with the spoilers?  Not to be mean but I haven't beat the game and found out from this topic that Zobek becomes the lord of nercomancers and the last boss is Death. I was hoping to see Dracula in LOS. We have another thread for spoilers

If you guys have to talk about spoilers here, please use the spoiler tags.  
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that LOS has a better origin story than Lament?(plz no spoilers)
Post by: Flame on January 08, 2011, 09:24:04 PM
well to be fair, this is a topic about story. Origin stories. In a topic like that, you should expect spoilers, since they are sometimes necessary to explain points.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: darkwzrd4 on January 08, 2011, 09:39:56 PM
I've gone though the last few chapters of the game again and they're some scrolls(as well as Zobeks narration) that refer the lord of the necromancers as Death.

And going by all the posts about this manner, I can think of only two things:

1. Death has been reduced to a lesser enemy, thus becoming a complete weaking in this timeline.

2. There is no Death in this timeline at all.


My theory: Zobek>>Death>>>>Necromancers>>>>>>>Reapers
No, there is no entity called Death.  The reapers in LoS are the physical manifestation of death in this game.  So, instead of having one supreme entity called Death, you have a bunch of lesser entities that represent it.  Also, those reapers aren't pushovers.  In a group, they can kill you in a number of seconds if you aren't careful.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that LOS has a better origin story than Lament?(plz no spoilers)
Post by: le052383 on January 08, 2011, 09:40:07 PM
well to be fair, this is a topic about story. Origin stories. In a topic like that, you should expect spoilers, since they are sometimes necessary to explain points.

While that might be true, I was thinking more of a brief comparsion between the two games as oppose to the thread to stray away and evolving into topic about about Zobek = Death because of a specific scene.  I wouldn't expect spoilers in here unless I mention spoilers in the heading.  Besides, if you guys have to mention spoilers, please use the spoiler tags.  I haven't beaten the game yet, which I made clear a few times (someone got the point in avoiding to mention spoilers here).  Remember that not everyone passed LOS yet since it is only a few months old and there are going to be someone here so wants a generic or brief comparsion of the two games.  I apologized for not being blunt the first time, so I changed the title to say to use spoilers tags.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that LOS has a better origin story than Lament?(plz no spoilers)
Post by: Joachim on January 08, 2011, 09:40:20 PM
Zobek was actually manipulated by Satan, who is the final boss.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that LOS has a better origin story than Lament?(plz no spoilers)
Post by: le052383 on January 08, 2011, 09:43:43 PM
Zobek was actually manipulated by Satan, who is the final boss.

Thank you for ruining it for me.  I think I am going to stay away from this topic
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that LOS has a better origin story than Lament?(plz no spoilers)
Post by: Joachim on January 08, 2011, 09:47:16 PM
Sorry, that was kind of a dick-move. But other people were right in that expecting to be able to avoid spoilers in this kind of topic seems like a lost cause.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that LOS has a better origin story than Lament?(plz no spoilers)
Post by: A-Yty on January 08, 2011, 09:53:24 PM
This is something I already mentione in another thread but Jorge thought that enough time has passed.

Yet there is a specific announcement that you should use the tags. The mind boggles.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that LOS has a better origin story than Lament?(plz no spoilers)
Post by: le052383 on January 08, 2011, 09:55:25 PM
This is something I already mentione in another thread but Jorge thought that enough time has passed.

Yet there is a specific announcement that you should use the tags. The mind boggles.

I wouldn't mind if you guys use the tags.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that LOS has a better origin story than LOI?(plz use spoiler tags)
Post by: A-Yty on January 08, 2011, 10:15:14 PM
There's not much I can spoil when I just know fragments from here and there (now I know a pretty big fragment since the final boss was revealed). I pretty much just answer to spoilers already made.

But yes, I agree.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: Flame on January 08, 2011, 10:28:23 PM
No, there is no entity called Death.  The reapers in LoS are the physical manifestation of death in this game.  So, instead of having one supreme entity called Death, you have a bunch of lesser entities that represent it.  Also, those reapers aren't pushovers.  In a group, they can kill you in a number of seconds if you aren't careful.
Reapers can kill you in 2 hits. 2 HITS. And they swing twice per attack too!
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that LOS has a better origin story than Lament?(plz no spoilers)
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on January 08, 2011, 10:40:12 PM
While that might be true, I was thinking more of a brief comparsion between the two games as oppose to the thread to stray away and evolving into topic about about Zobek = Death because of a specific scene.  I wouldn't expect spoilers in here unless I mention spoilers in the heading.  Besides, if you guys have to mention spoilers, please use the spoiler tags.  I haven't beaten the game yet, which I made clear a few times (someone got the point in avoiding to mention spoilers here).  Remember that not everyone passed LOS yet since it is only a few months old and there are going to be someone here so wants a generic or brief comparsion of the two games.  I apologized for not being blunt the first time, so I changed the title to say to use spoilers tags.

Not to be mean, but three things come to mind:

1. If you haven't beaten the game, you might wanna avoid threads that deal with the story of LoS as inevitably people will assume that you know it already.
2. I put in the News Header to tread carefully in LoS thread, as spoilers are abound.
3. The game came out nearly three months ago.

What did you think was going to happen?  People would tiptoe around a key story point when the thread title should have given you a clue that there would be talk of post-ending stuff (I only noticed just now that it says (plz no spoilers), was that recently added or was that always there?).

EDIT: You did the right thing by adding that to the thread title, but you should have done that in the first place if you did not want to be spoiled.

Joachim:
You're not helping.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that LOS has a better origin story than LOI?(plz use spoiler tags)
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on January 08, 2011, 10:44:55 PM
This is something I already mentione in another thread but Jorge thought that enough time has passed.

Yet there is a specific announcement that you should use the tags. The mind boggles.

It only boggles if you were not aware that that particular news item is now three months old.
I'm going to go remove it now, so that it doesn't cause other people's minds to boggle.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that LOS has a better origin story than Lament?(plz no spoilers)
Post by: Evil_Tim on January 09, 2011, 01:31:31 AM
Thank you for ruining it for me.  I think I am going to stay away from this topic

It's not really a spoiler since it just comes out in one of those Hideo Kojima cutscenes where you find out that everyone has been manipulating everyone else. Seemingly they just ran out of people actually in the plot to reveal were manipulating other people, so Satan shows up looking like he was kicked off Facebook for being too emo and you have a fight and then a series of things happen that nobody understands. Seriously, you could replace him with Snidely Whiplash or Doctor Robotnik and you wouldn't have to change anything.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: Kingshango on January 09, 2011, 01:34:44 AM
No, there is no entity called Death.  The reapers in LoS are the physical manifestation of death in this game.  So, instead of having one supreme entity called Death, you have a bunch of lesser entities that represent it.  Also, those reapers aren't pushovers.  In a group, they can kill you in a number of seconds if you aren't careful.

Well lets agree to disagree that Death is unaccounted for in this game, just a bunch of necromancers including one very very very powerful necromancer god.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that LOS has a better origin story than LOI?(plz use spoiler tags)
Post by: Kale on January 09, 2011, 07:09:48 PM
both origin story kind of sucks imo....


(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that Lords of Shadow has a better origin story than Lament?
Post by: Munchy on January 09, 2011, 09:36:25 PM
Well lets agree to disagree that Death is unaccounted for in this game, just a bunch of necromancers including one very very very powerful necromancer god.

Yeah, it really pissed me off that this part of the game mentions "doing battle with Death himself" which... never really ends up happening at all. Why all the cockteases without following through? It really only added to the feeling of the game being "bait and switch."
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that LOS has a better origin story than LOI?(plz use spoiler tags)
Post by: crystos on January 11, 2011, 10:09:25 PM
well didnlt thewy say that gabriel is NOT a belmont from birth? I wonder how they will go with this.. are their true belmonts that will be introduced and somehow tied in?
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that LOS has a better origin story than LOI?(plz use spoiler tags)
Post by: crisis on January 11, 2011, 10:14:20 PM
They will just be borrowing eachothers names in this timeline.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that LOS has a better origin story than LOI?(plz use spoiler tags)
Post by: Flame on January 11, 2011, 10:54:10 PM
well didnlt thewy say that gabriel is NOT a belmont from birth? I wonder how they will go with this.. are their true belmonts that will be introduced and somehow tied in?
No, Gabriel is the first Belmont in this continuity. He chose the name for himself due to his love of the mountains. And they really just namedropped him being a Cronqvist as a mythos nod to Mathias Cronqvist being the IGAverse's Dracula
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that LOS has a better origin story than LOI?(plz use spoiler tags)
Post by: A-Yty on January 11, 2011, 11:56:27 PM
Here's what LoS got right: it treated Dracula as the protagonist. This is how I've seen it for years. Dracula is the closest thing to a main character the series has. Even if he's also the antagonist.

However, they ignore the other side of the coin (that is if Gabriel truly is going to be the first, last and only Belmont).
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that LOS has a better origin story than LOI?(plz use spoiler tags)
Post by: Evil_Tim on January 14, 2011, 06:14:05 AM
No, Gabriel is the first Belmont in this continuity. He chose the name for himself due to his love of the mountains. And they really just namedropped him being a Cronqvist as a mythos nod to Mathias Cronqvist being the IGAverse's Dracula

Of course they could have gone Belnades / Fernandez on us and said he was a Corvinus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthias_Corvinus), which is probably what Lament was aiming for anyway.

Here's what LoS got right: it treated Dracula as the protagonist. This is how I've seen it for years. Dracula is the closest thing to a main character the series has. Even if he's also the antagonist.

Um, which LoS did you play? I played the one he was barely in at all and when he was it wasn't explained why. LoS is as much about Dracula as it is about Satan.

Also, the closest thing to a main character the series has is the castle. It's named after that, after all.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that LOS has a better origin story than LOI?(plz use spoiler tags)
Post by: A-Yty on January 14, 2011, 06:22:36 AM
I didn't play LoS. From the spoilers and cutscenes I remember he calls himself Dracula at least on occasion.

And hey, if you wanna go down that road, I suppose Vampire Killer is the main character.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that LOS has a better origin story than LOI?(plz use spoiler tags)
Post by: Evil_Tim on January 14, 2011, 06:34:10 AM
I didn't play LoS. From the spoilers and cutscenes I remember he calls himself Dracula at least on occasion.

Ok, what happens is this:

(click to show/hide)

And hey, if you wanna go down that road, I suppose Vampire Killer is the main character.

Well, no, there's more than a few games that isn't really in after all (those focusing on anyone who isn't a Belmont), but Castlevania (or "demon castle Dracula," if you prefer) is always important in Castlevania.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that LOS has a better origin story than LOI?(plz use spoiler tags)
Post by: A-Yty on January 14, 2011, 07:09:55 AM
Really? How about LoI? CotM? DoS? SQ? Castle as a building has always been there but not "Creature of Chaos". The point was the castle is, although supernatural, just a building. It has no personality. Calling "The Whip" main character is therefore just as logical. Dracula is someone who talks and walks and has been around since the beginning.

I think it's after the credits Gabriel refers to himself as Dracul.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that LOS has a better origin story than LOI?(plz use spoiler tags)
Post by: VGuyver on January 14, 2011, 07:22:59 AM
To be honest, I like both plots, but LOI didn't have that great a plot, it was pretty bland in generic, until you see the plot twist involving Leon's wife. On the other hand, Rinaldo and Joachim both had great potential (along with Walter with their mutual connection to make the plot much more intresting and flashed out. But They didn't they just hinted of what happened between them, never really giving us a satisfying answer. Then it topped off with Mathias who utterly made the plot completely worhtwhile with his speech condemning God.

LOS is an overall better presentation, and the plot is damn good  and enjoyable through out the game. It only fails towards the end... ironic consider this seems to be the reverse of LOI in how they paced it. But it did change up some nice plot elements with death, gods, and angels in a way that struck us with aww, especially with the God Pan who is easily my favorite character in that game.

In the end, the games are a draw to me, but if you were to combine the best aspects of both games plots, you could easily have an award winning plot.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that LOS has a better origin story than LOI?(plz use spoiler tags)
Post by: darkwzrd4 on January 14, 2011, 05:09:15 PM
To be honest, I like both plots, but LOI didn't have that great a plot, it was pretty bland in generic, until you see the plot twist involving Leon's wife. On the other hand, Rinaldo and Joachim both had great potential (along with Walter with their mutual connection to make the plot much more intresting and flashed out. But They didn't they just hinted of what happened between them, never really giving us a satisfying answer. Then it topped off with Mathias who utterly made the plot completely worhtwhile with his speech condemning God.

LOS is an overall better presentation, and the plot is damn good  and enjoyable through out the game. It only fails towards the end... ironic consider this seems to be the reverse of LOI in how they paced it. But it did change up some nice plot elements with death, gods, and angels in a way that struck us with aww, especially with the God Pan who is easily my favorite character in that game.

In the end, the games are a draw to me, but if you were to combine the best aspects of both games plots, you could easily have an award winning plot.
I agree.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that LOS has a better origin story than LOI?(plz use spoiler tags)
Post by: kadosho on January 14, 2011, 06:36:30 PM
Although I have not played LOS yet (but I'm hopeful to find a copy, when I get my 360 fixed).
I'm still intriuged with the "new" direction they wanted to take it. Move it in a DMC, mixed with Ninja Gaiden.
For so long its been stuck in a 3d-esque plain design. Its great to see it given new life, and maybe more stories to tell.

Title: Re: Anyone thinks that LOS has a better origin story than LOI?(plz use spoiler tags)
Post by: Joachim on January 14, 2011, 09:17:16 PM
Hardly Devil May Cry, moreso God of War.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that LOS has a better origin story than LOI?(plz use spoiler tags)
Post by: Flame on January 14, 2011, 09:21:07 PM
The Candles are the main characters. They are in every Castlevania game. EVERY. Even loS has breakable candles.

Hardly Devil May Cry, moreso God of War.
Castlevania did it first though. it INVENTED it almost.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that LOS has a better origin story than LOI?(plz use spoiler tags)
Post by: DarkPrinceAlucard on January 14, 2011, 09:47:04 PM
The Candles are the main characters. They are in every Castlevania game. EVERY. Even loS has breakable candles.
Castlevania did it first though. it INVENTED it almost.

Actually Devil May Cry invented it in the 3D genre to be more precise.

Afterwards games like Ninja Gaiden and God of War copied it.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that LOS has a better origin story than LOI?(plz use spoiler tags)
Post by: Lumas on January 14, 2011, 10:26:48 PM
I have to say after playing LoS and LoI I can honestly say neither is better. I dont really care much for the whole Dracula is Mathias thing nor do I care for Dracula being Gabriel and to be honest LoS was a good game but I honestly can say it was a major disappointment for me story wise.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that LOS has a better origin story than LOI?(plz use spoiler tags)
Post by: Kale on January 14, 2011, 10:39:05 PM
Actually Devil May Cry invented it in the 3D genre to be more precise.

Afterwards games like Ninja Gaiden and God of War copied it.

Sorry, but if you're going to make a statement like that, then you should say Rygar made that move, then Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden, and GoW copied it. That's what everyone seems to tell me anyway.

That said, they play differently. And GoW should've copied more from DMC and NGB.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that LOS has a better origin story than LOI?(plz use spoiler tags)
Post by: crisis on January 14, 2011, 10:50:17 PM
Kratos would rip Ryu's head off & play catch with Dante hyahaha!!
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that LOS has a better origin story than LOI?(plz use spoiler tags)
Post by: Kale on January 14, 2011, 10:53:25 PM
Please! That pansy? He'll just miss all his QTEs and die.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that LOS has a better origin story than LOI?(plz use spoiler tags)
Post by: KaZudra on January 15, 2011, 12:10:28 AM
God Of War is just a Typical Overrated game that Ripped off other games of the same Genre and used an amercianized super flawed plot involving Kratos whining about something he did and after understanding the situation a sequel comes in where he is just betrayed by everything that has a name.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that LOS has a better origin story than LOI?(plz use spoiler tags)
Post by: DarkPrinceAlucard on January 15, 2011, 01:22:22 AM
Sorry, but if you're going to make a statement like that, then you should say Rygar made that move, then Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden, and GoW copied it. That's what everyone seems to tell me anyway.

That said, they play differently. And GoW should've copied more from DMC and NGB.

If your talking about the Rygar for PS2 then your wrong.

Devil may cry came out in August 23, 2001 while Rygar for ps2 came out in November 12, 2002.

So my statement still stands that Devil May cry was the first to do this style of gameplay in 3D.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that LOS has a better origin story than LOI?(plz use spoiler tags)
Post by: crisis on January 15, 2011, 01:48:53 AM
Quote from: Kamui Zero
God Of War is just a Typical Overrated game that Ripped off other games of the same Genre and used an amercianized super flawed plot involving Kratos whining about something he did and after understanding the situation a sequel comes in where he is just betrayed by everything that has a name.
God of War isn't overrated, it deserves all the awards & praise it gets because it's a genuine fun series to play. You just hate it because it's popular amirite?

The plot is heavily based on Greek Mythology, dunno what's "Americanized" about it. Ever hear of the term tragic hero (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragic_hero)? Greek Mythology is chock-full of 'em, which is what Kratos is.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that LOS has a better origin story than LOI?(plz use spoiler tags)
Post by: KaZudra on January 15, 2011, 02:25:53 AM
God of War isn't overrated, it deserves all the awards & praise it gets because it's a genuine fun series to play. You just hate it because it's popular amirite?

The plot is heavily based on Greek Mythology, dunno what's "Americanized" about it. Ever hear of the term tragic hero (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragic_hero)? Greek Mythology is chock-full of 'em, which is what Kratos is.
This does apply to God of War 1, below applies to all that is sequels.

One, not tragic, Never had a great loss due to the ONLY thing they can do is kill him, and did not.
Two, If it were heavily based on Greek mythology, Zues would have killed Kratos at the start of 2
Three, GOW3 was rated perfection, Lack of variety in weapons, a ridiculous story, great graphics, dissapointing unlockables, and most of all, plotholes GALORE, yeah its totaly diserved it [/sarcasm]

I did my best to see what was good in it, I really did, but I saw it for what it was, God of War was THE game, it did deserve the awards, but 2 and 3 ruined it to the point of ridiculous, and the problem was is i got more popular the more stupid it got.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that LOS has a better origin story than LOI?(plz use spoiler tags)
Post by: crisis on January 15, 2011, 02:39:26 AM
Quote
One, not tragic, Never had a great loss due to the ONLY thing they can do is kill him, and did not.
He lost his entire family (mother, brother, wife, daughter) what's more tragic than that?

It should be obvious by now that permanently killing Kratos isn't an easy task.

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Two, If it were heavily based on Greek mythology, Zues would have killed Kratos at the start of 2
Zeus DID kill him, but Gaia had the power to bring him back. Did you not pay attention to the plot at all?

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Three, GOW3 was rated perfection, Lack of variety in weapons, a ridiculous story, great graphics, dissapointing unlockables, and most of all, plotholes GALORE, yeah its totaly diserved it [/sarcasm]
"Lack of variety in weapons?" What were you expecting, for him to have Alucard's SotN arsenal? And nearly every game story nowadays has plotholes, who the hell cares?

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I did my best to see what was good in it, I really did, but I saw it for what it was, God of War was THE game, it did deserve the awards, but 2 and 3 ruined it to the point of ridiculous, and the problem was is i got more popular the more stupid it got.
That's too bad you feel that way, your loss I suppose.


P.S. sry for derailing the topic, just had to make a few points
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that LOS has a better origin story than LOI?(plz use spoiler tags)
Post by: Flame on January 15, 2011, 03:03:55 AM
He lost his entire family (mother, brother, wife, daughter) what's more tragic than that?
The fact that it is a commonly used plot device.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that LOS has a better origin story than LOI?(plz use spoiler tags)
Post by: KaZudra on January 15, 2011, 03:30:04 AM
Dude, The Tragic Hero suffers a great loss at the end, not the beginning, this is just another revenge story ruined by sequels
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that LOS has a better origin story than LOI?(plz use spoiler tags)
Post by: Flame on January 15, 2011, 03:31:40 AM
Dude, The Tragic Hero suffers a great loss at the end, not the beginning, this is just another revenge story ruined by sequels
Especially in classical works.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that LOS has a better origin story than LOI?(plz use spoiler tags)
Post by: crisis on January 15, 2011, 03:42:52 AM
again, what's the big friggin' deal? It's still an awesome game series.

Castlevania has revenge stories as well. Belmont wants revenge on Dracula for kidnapping girl, Grant wants revenge for his destroyed hometown, Dracula wants revenge on God and humans, etc.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that LOS has a better origin story than LOI?(plz use spoiler tags)
Post by: PFG9000 on January 15, 2011, 04:02:19 AM
Bah, let Kamui whine about how much he doesn't like God of War.  Thousands of gamers disagree with him, myself among them.  My only beef with the series is that it uses sex/nudity to sell.  It's a damn fun game to play though, and last I checked, that's what games are supposed to be all about.
Title: Re: Anyone thinks that LOS has a better origin story than LOI?(plz use spoiler tags)
Post by: thernz on January 15, 2011, 04:21:18 AM
i didn't actually like gow's (or rather gowii, the one i played) combat. didn't feel as tight as i would've liked. felt kinda shallow actually, even when disregarding qtes (i dont actually remember any of the qtes anyway so).

i had fun giggling at dinosaur roaring colossus though. i dont remember much else of the game though besides vague elements like uh, ship level, lava level, blue level, boss fight in temple with water. i remember having to kill innocent people as part of puzzles and etc. and not liking that. i think i got disgusted at playing as kratos because of that and stopped. except it was at the last boss when i stopped anyway so that was kinda derp.

uhhhhh
yeah.

on the other hand, ninja gaiden was clunky as hell to control despite the nice combat and it was just totally bland design-wise.

i really wanna play rygar. ; - ;