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The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: VampirehunterB on January 09, 2011, 07:24:16 PM

Title: imporant Improvements for the Castlevania 3D genre
Post by: VampirehunterB on January 09, 2011, 07:24:16 PM
I was very satisfied with the artwork, soundtrack and the overall concept in both Lament of Innocence and Curse of Darkness. LoI was a very successful game in my opinion, cod as well in a few ways...though there are some decisive flaws:

I: As for all castlevania games(except for sotn,bless that game) the characters does not change appearance in accordance to what they are equipped with(except for weapons), which is a very notable flaw for the overall experience(at least there should be an option between wearing the original appearance permanently through the game buttt still possess other items powers, or alllowing the appearance to be changed.)

II: difficulty option should always be available, for the experienced castlevania players, there should be Very Hard as an option, respectively Hard and Normal.

III: The entire setting in LoI was superb, pure, authentic Castlevania(yes I prefer the sotn elements)... from the House of Sacred Remains to the Ghostly Theatre..perfect envoirmental experience. The same goes for Cod...

The games were too short though, and there should have been more physical obstacles(such as towers to jump over, chandeliers or whatever..inspiration from the 2D would probably help) in order to improve the overall gameplay.



CoD had almost no obstacles at all, just plain ground. the enemies were all very similar to each other, and it became too easy finishing through level ups.





simple summary:

*add difficulty option

*allow the characters to change appearance in accordance to what they are wearing

*create obstacles similar to the 2D games

*enlarge the games with massive forests, castle areas, hints, and interesting items

*develop dozens of cool advanced combos unique for different weapons and levels



If these general problems would have been greatly improved, and if they would still follow up the genre as they have done earlier with the envoirmental looks, the soundtrack and the artwork, then I think we will finally face a castlevania masterpiece that will reach the top lists for both castlevania fans and gamers in general.

Am I wrong about this or would you agree? please share a thought=)
thanks 

(no more LoS for me in my opinion..)
Title: Re: imporant Improvements for the Castlevania 3D genre
Post by: crisis on January 09, 2011, 07:50:56 PM
The concepts of LoD + the style/mood of the ps2 games + LoS gameplay/graphics/budget = ultimate 3D Castlevania

In my opinion
Title: Re: imporant Improvements for the Castlevania 3D genre
Post by: Flame on January 09, 2011, 08:21:06 PM
Lords of SHadow actually changes Gabriel's appearance depending on the  relics he gets.
Title: Re: imporant Improvements for the Castlevania 3D genre
Post by: darkwzrd4 on January 09, 2011, 08:25:14 PM
The concepts of LoD + the style/mood of the ps2 games + LoS gameplay/graphics/budget = ultimate 3D Castlevania

In my opinion
Lords of SHadow actually changes Gabriel's appearance depending on the  relics he gets.
These two quotes represent what most of us want for the future.
Title: Re: imporant Improvements for the Castlevania 3D genre
Post by: Dremn on January 09, 2011, 10:44:02 PM
The option to play as more than 1 character, I think it would be neat anyway. I prefer playing as hunters/Belmonts with whips and sub weapons, and other people prefer playing as characters with more versatility like Alucard and Soma. Being able to play as all types would be excellent.

Platforming, proper platforming is a must. Castlevania just isn't Castlevania without the platforming and well designed levels. More uses for the whip too, LoS demonstrated this perfectly. Being able to swing across chasms and scale walls/mountains is pretty awesome.

Combat needs to be finalized, I personally would like something similar to Lords, without the QTE's and enemies with massive HP. I don't like focusing on the same enemy for 2-3 minutes unless they're large foes/bosses.

That's all I can think of right now.
Title: Re: imporant Improvements for the Castlevania 3D genre
Post by: Reinhart77 on January 09, 2011, 11:18:08 PM
Ha, well, Judgment changes what the character looks like when you equip items.  But its mostly ridiculous.  But now that they've had experience changing character's appearance, maybe Iga's ready to do it in his next 3D game?
Title: Re: imporant Improvements for the Castlevania 3D genre
Post by: corneliab on January 10, 2011, 08:26:20 AM
I don't get it. The TC spends his whole post dwelling on the cruddy PS2 games, but completely brushes LoS aside.

I'm also getting a serious "CV didn't exist before SotN" vibe over here.
Title: Re: imporant Improvements for the Castlevania 3D genre
Post by: DragonSlayr81 on January 10, 2011, 09:13:04 AM
What I'd like:

1. IGA's artists to design the look of the locations. I tend to prefer the CV world IGA's games present as far as overall look is concerned.

2. Mercury Steam to design the layout of the locations, with more platforming over grappling areas. They are more skilled in delivering greater platforming layouts than IGA's team.

3. IGA, Cox and Kojima producing together(as the Three Musketeers).

4. IGA writing the treatment, fleshed out by Enric Álvarez.

5. Music is a collaboration effort betwee Aroujo, Yamane, Kimura and Koshiro.

6. Twice as long as IGA's 3D CVs and twice as many locations as LoS.

7. TRY to deliver a complete story that isn't left with vague plotholes or hooks to be completed with DLC or another game(both IGA's games and LoS are guilty of this). A great way would be to do something straightforward with a basic concept that can be resolved in completion(like the first CV), and build a story on that.

8. Monsters that are well diverse(little palette swap, if possible), and majority are based on classic CV monsters(even enemies like Balloon Pods and Medusa Heads).

9. Whip ability to ensnare enemies and pull them off ledges, or use them as weapons by flailing them around with your whip. I can imagine ensnaring a Medusa Head in mid-flight, then batting it around to take out other Medusa Heads.

10. ALL classic sub-weapons return.

11. Belmonts are Belmonts, Dracula is Dracula, Death is Death. All appear as themselves without any ambiguous nature of whom is what.

12. Stage based like LoS. The course of the adventure works through the countryside and finally, the castle, and backtracking through previous levels is possible(option given to do it on foot, or to warp).
Title: Re: imporant Improvements for the Castlevania 3D genre
Post by: Kingshango on January 10, 2011, 09:21:40 AM
What I'd like:

1. IGA's artists to design the look of the locations. I tend to prefer the CV world IGA's games present as far as overall look is concerned.

2. Mercury Steam to design the layout of the locations, with more platforming over grappling areas. They are more skilled in delivering greater platforming layouts than IGA's team.

3. IGA, Cox and Kojima producing together(as the Three Musketeers).

4. IGA writing the treatment, fleshed out by Enric Álvarez.

5. Music is a collaboration effort betwee Aroujo, Yamane, Kimura and Koshiro.

6. Twice as long as IGA's 3D CVs and twice as many locations as LoS.

7. TRY to deliver a complete story that isn't left with vague plotholes or hooks to be completed with DLC or another game(both IGA's games and LoS are guilty of this). A great way would be to do something straightforward with a basic concept that can be resolved in completion(like the first CV), and build a story on that.

8. Monsters that are well diverse(little palette swap, if possible), and majority are based on classic CV monsters(even enemies like Balloon Pods and Medusa Heads).

9. Whip ability to ensnare enemies and pull them off ledges, or use them as weapons by flailing them around with your whip. I can imagine ensnaring a Medusa Head in mid-flight, then batting it around to take out other Medusa Heads.

10. ALL classic sub-weapons return.

11. Belmonts are Belmonts, Dracula is Dracula, Death is Death. All appear as themselves without any ambiguous nature of whom is what.

12. Stage based like LoS. The course of the adventure works through the countryside and finally, the castle, and backtracking through previous levels is possible(option given to do it on foot, or to warp).

Everything you said.
Title: Re: imporant Improvements for the Castlevania 3D genre
Post by: darkwzrd4 on January 10, 2011, 09:34:09 AM
Everything you said.
I second that.
Title: Re: imporant Improvements for the Castlevania 3D genre
Post by: Flame on January 10, 2011, 12:58:39 PM

3. IGA, Cox and Kojima producing together(as the Three Musketeers).

You sure the world is ready for that much epic?
Title: Re: imporant Improvements for the Castlevania 3D genre
Post by: DarkPrinceAlucard on January 10, 2011, 01:17:50 PM
I second that.
I third that.

Nice Layout for the perfect game DragonSlayer.
Title: Re: imporant Improvements for the Castlevania 3D genre
Post by: Vrakanox on January 10, 2011, 02:07:02 PM
The option to play as more than 1 character, I think it would be neat anyway. I prefer playing as hunters/Belmonts with whips and sub weapons, and other people prefer playing as characters with more versatility like Alucard and Soma. Being able to play as all types would be excellent.

I've always been a big supporter of this kind of thing in games since I was a kid. I feel like there should always be an option and for me it always gives the game much more replay value. Even if it's just a choice between two characters it's still a choice.
Title: Re: imporant Improvements for the Castlevania 3D genre
Post by: whitedragon_nall on January 10, 2011, 03:10:59 PM
What I'd like:

1. IGA's artists to design the look of the locations. I tend to prefer the CV world IGA's games present as far as overall look is concerned.

2. Mercury Steam to design the layout of the locations, with more platforming over grappling areas. They are more skilled in delivering greater platforming layouts than IGA's team.

3. IGA, Cox and Kojima producing together(as the Three Musketeers).

4. IGA writing the treatment, fleshed out by Enric Álvarez.

5. Music is a collaboration effort betwee Aroujo, Yamane, Kimura and Koshiro.

6. Twice as long as IGA's 3D CVs and twice as many locations as LoS.

7. TRY to deliver a complete story that isn't left with vague plotholes or hooks to be completed with DLC or another game(both IGA's games and LoS are guilty of this). A great way would be to do something straightforward with a basic concept that can be resolved in completion(like the first CV), and build a story on that.

8. Monsters that are well diverse(little palette swap, if possible), and majority are based on classic CV monsters(even enemies like Balloon Pods and Medusa Heads).

9. Whip ability to ensnare enemies and pull them off ledges, or use them as weapons by flailing them around with your whip. I can imagine ensnaring a Medusa Head in mid-flight, then batting it around to take out other Medusa Heads.

10. ALL classic sub-weapons return.

11. Belmonts are Belmonts, Dracula is Dracula, Death is Death. All appear as themselves without any ambiguous nature of whom is what.

12. Stage based like LoS. The course of the adventure works through the countryside and finally, the castle, and backtracking through previous levels is possible(option given to do it on foot, or to warp).


i support this as well. IGA's games and Mercury Steam's game have strengths and weaknesses. A team effort between both would be  kick ass.
Title: Re: imporant Improvements for the Castlevania 3D genre
Post by: VampirehunterB on January 10, 2011, 03:49:19 PM
I don't get it. The TC spends his whole post dwelling on the cruddy PS2 games, but completely brushes LoS aside.

I'm also getting a serious "CV didn't exist before SotN" vibe over here.


You're right, I Do consider sotn to be the greatest of all..but that doesen't mean I don't like the previous games...who could dislike such immortal classics as super CV IV?

Please dont get me wrong, LoS IS a good action game..but not a very good CASTLEVANIA game if you ask me...as crisis and dragonslayr81 says...combining different elements would probably be the best...I just think that LoS was too much like..any other fantasy game
Title: Re: imporant Improvements for the Castlevania 3D genre
Post by: Mr.Bushido on January 10, 2011, 04:02:46 PM


You're right, I Do consider sotn to be the greatest of all..but that doesen't mean I don't like the previous games...who could dislike such immortal classics as super CV IV?

Please dont get me wrong, LoS IS a good action game..but not a very good CASTLEVANIA game if you ask me...as crisis and dragonslayr81 says...combining different elements would probably be the best...I just think that LoS was too much like..any other fantasy game

but that doesn´t make the SOTN artwork better than the classics or more "castlevanish", I particularly prefer the old-school style for the series

Anyway I agree that combining different elements of both sides would probably please all the fans, or most of them.
Title: Re: imporant Improvements for the Castlevania 3D genre
Post by: VampirehunterB on January 10, 2011, 04:17:59 PM
I would see the artwork as being different unique designs for it's ages...the classic nes-Snes artwork was very cool indeed..but resurrecting it wouldn't work today..the sotn artwork was an aesthetic renaissance which I never can turn away from, I hope she will illustrate all the castlevania games in the future, rather than having what I consider to be boring stereotype fantasy art-LoS artwork.
Title: Re: imporant Improvements for the Castlevania 3D genre
Post by: Munchy on January 10, 2011, 07:09:01 PM
The first entry in my list is by far the most important: NO FUCKING QTES. In an age where one character contains more polygons than the whole of Star Fox, the gaming industry still has a collective retard boner for these. "LOLZ BUT RE4 UZD TEM Y CNT WE?" Because it is among the laziest of game design choices that any 6 year old has already experienced in its fullest with the game "Simon Says." Keiji Inafune's "The West is the future of gaming" diatribes cannot be taken seriously when a character's more complex actions almost always boil down to this shit. It is the year 2011. Surely designers can come up with something more engaging than a random button prompt? No? Oh jeez...

I mention this here specifically to call out David Cox, who, after stating his own hatred of QTEs, proceeded to stuff Lords of Shadow chock full of them at almost every given opportunity. Need to open a door? QTE. Need to remove this barrier? QTE. Need to expose a strong enemy's weak point? QTE. Need to throw a guy? Yet another QTE. This really needs to stop.

Enough ranting, though. Here are some other suggestions for improving 3DCV:

-Turn down the Hollywood dial about 10 notches. If I wanted to see a movie, I wouldn't have bought a game. (By this I mean removing stuff like the "shaky cam", the way-excessive Patrick Stewart monologues before every chapter, the feverish desire Konami has for SHOCKING PLOT TWISTS, etc.)
-More horror, less high fantasy. (And if there is high fantasy, at least do something to make it feel less like shoehorning some Tolkien.)
-More music or different music. (Also, just because it's an orchestra doesn't make it automatically good.)
-Having the Castle be the middle of the game rather than the end was kinda lame. It is called Castlevania, after all.
-Don't be so eager to kill off all the interesting NPC characters so quickly. I was very sad that Baba Yaga wouldn't return for a sequel, or at least a jawesome boss fight.
-Give more substantial allusions to the old games than just random name drops.
-Take a cue from Ninja Gaiden 2 or Devil May Cry 4 if you want more complex finishers or whatever. Those games did finishers quickly, stylishly, and most importantly, without QTEs.
-The "Titan" fights would have been far more enjoyable if A) they weren't completely and utterly out of context for a Castlevania (except for maybe the Dracolich), and B) if they could be fought more like actual opponents rather than yet another wall-shimmying contest. Bayonetta did these kinds of fights correctly.
-Wall-shimmying sucks. I don't want Uncharted, I want Castlevania. Gimme some platforms to jump on.
Title: Re: imporant Improvements for the Castlevania 3D genre
Post by: darkwzrd4 on January 10, 2011, 07:21:49 PM
The first entry in my list is by far the most important: NO FUCKING QTES. In an age where one character contains more polygons than the whole of Star Fox, the gaming industry still has a collective retard boner for these. "LOLZ BUT RE4 UZD TEM Y CNT WE?" Because it is among the laziest of game design choices that any 6 year old has already experienced in its fullest with the game "Simon Says." Keiji Inafune's "The West is the future of gaming" diatribes cannot be taken seriously when a character's more complex actions almost always boil down to this shit. It is the year 2011. Surely designers can come up with something more engaging than a random button prompt? No? Oh jeez...

I mention this here specifically to call out David Cox, who, after stating his own hatred of QTEs, proceeded to stuff Lords of Shadow chock full of them at almost every given opportunity. Need to open a door? QTE. Need to remove this barrier? QTE. Need to expose a strong enemy's weak point? QTE. Need to throw a guy? Yet another QTE. This really needs to stop.

Enough ranting, though. Here are some other suggestions for improving 3DCV:

-Turn down the Hollywood dial about 10 notches. If I wanted to see a movie, I wouldn't have bought a game. (By this I mean removing stuff like the "shaky cam", the way-excessive Patrick Stewart monologues before every chapter, the feverish desire Konami has for SHOCKING PLOT TWISTS, etc.)
-More horror, less high fantasy. (And if there is high fantasy, at least do something to make it feel less like shoehorning some Tolkien.)
-More music or different music. (Also, just because it's an orchestra doesn't make it automatically good.)
-Having the Castle be the middle of the game rather than the end was kinda lame. It is called Castlevania, after all.
-Don't be so eager to kill off all the interesting NPC characters so quickly. I was very sad that Baba Yaga wouldn't return for a sequel, or at least a jawesome boss fight.
-Give more substantial allusions to the old games than just random name drops.
-Take a cue from Ninja Gaiden 2 or Devil May Cry 4 if you want more complex finishers or whatever. Those games did finishers quickly, stylishly, and most importantly, without QTEs.
-The "Titan" fights would have been far more enjoyable if A) they weren't completely and utterly out of context for a Castlevania (except for maybe the Dracolich), and B) if they could be fought more like actual opponents rather than yet another wall-shimmying contest. Bayonetta did these kinds of fights correctly.
-Wall-shimmying sucks. I don't want Uncharted, I want Castlevania. Gimme some platforms to jump on.
I agree with this too.  Titan fights should be like the Forgotten One (LoI) and Legion (CoD) in which you fight the bosses from platforms that surround them.  I don't mind some climbing, but the climbing in LoS was way too excessive.
Title: Re: imporant Improvements for the Castlevania 3D genre
Post by: crisis on January 10, 2011, 07:23:40 PM
....you just blew my fucking mind, Munchy.

Someone needs to forward your post to Cox ASAP. Did you know some 2D games have QTEs now? lol
Title: Re: imporant Improvements for the Castlevania 3D genre
Post by: Munchy on January 10, 2011, 07:32:49 PM
I agree with this too.  Titan fights should be like the Forgotten One (LoI) and Legion (CoD) in which you fight the bosses from platforms that surround them.  I don't mind some climbing, but the climbing in LoS was way too excessive.

I gotta admit though, a Beelzebub-type titan you'd have to crawl all over would be pretty fucking gross. (And by proxy, pretty fucking metal.)

And yeah, Crisis, I've seen a few examples of that. I was hoping the 2D QTE would be relegated to shitty pirate games, but there is a pretty huge offender in Rockman Online, where bosses REQUIRE a long QTE (with the keyboard, no less) to finish off. QTEs are like that elderly asshole military junta dictator that everyone hates, yet just won't fucking die in spite of all his liver failure and dementia.

I guess it's unfair to heap all the responsibility on Cox for the QTE madness, but then again one should make sure their statements are properly backed up before making, you know, statements. Splatterhouse, also a very enjoyable game, had this same problem (where the producer insisted it was QTE free when it really wasn't).
Title: Re: imporant Improvements for the Castlevania 3D genre
Post by: Kale on January 10, 2011, 07:51:02 PM
The first entry in my list is by far the most important: NO FUCKING QTES. In an age where one character contains more polygons than the whole of Star Fox, the gaming industry still has a collective retard boner for these. "LOLZ BUT RE4 UZD TEM Y CNT WE?" Because it is among the laziest of game design choices that any 6 year old has already experienced in its fullest with the game "Simon Says." Keiji Inafune's "The West is the future of gaming" diatribes cannot be taken seriously when a character's more complex actions almost always boil down to this shit. It is the year 2011. Surely designers can come up with something more engaging than a random button prompt? No? Oh jeez...

I mention this here specifically to call out David Cox, who, after stating his own hatred of QTEs, proceeded to stuff Lords of Shadow chock full of them at almost every given opportunity. Need to open a door? QTE. Need to remove this barrier? QTE. Need to expose a strong enemy's weak point? QTE. Need to throw a guy? Yet another QTE. This really needs to stop.

Hah, yea... talk about BS when that came around. Some of those cutscenes are awesome but you know what? They could've just have been awesome cutscenes instead of an awesome cutscene filled with QTEs.

Shocking plot twists are fine however, though the ones done in LoS were mostly in poor taste and did seem hollywoodish.

I'm fine with the castle being a thing on the way though yea... not having it end in a castle just didn't feel right for a CV game.

While I did think the titan fights were damn boring, but like you enjoyed the dracolich, I don't think Bayonetta did it too great either, well not really, they did have the right way of thinknig, but man... the camera really messed me up in that game.

The rest I agree with. A platformer shouldn't have so much shimmying, so this game which is only part platformer should have even less, I want some reflexive platforming like say....... DMC4's metal bridge where you have to run across with the boss destroying it or NGB's rolling boulder sequence where you have to  move really fast while running on walls and going under fallen rocks to bypass obstacles. Or ones that doesn't feel so slow or even stagnant which shimmying does.

....you just blew my fucking mind, Munchy.

Someone needs to forward your post to Cox ASAP. Did you know some 2D games have QTEs now? lol

Yea... "my" game. =D
Title: Re: imporant Improvements for the Castlevania 3D genre
Post by: Dremn on January 10, 2011, 08:42:36 PM
Completely agree about the QTE's. They're just not necessary or needed at all, and I do recall David saying how much he hates QTE's too in several interviews. Weird.
Title: Re: imporant Improvements for the Castlevania 3D genre
Post by: Kale on January 10, 2011, 08:43:49 PM
Forget that, I remember him saying the game will not have QTEs... apparently he lied or he doesn't believe what he did are "QTEs".
Title: Re: imporant Improvements for the Castlevania 3D genre
Post by: Munchy on January 10, 2011, 08:48:22 PM
I agree, plot twists are cool. When done correctly. But games nowadays can't really wrap their head around a plot that isn't "My wife is dead, desire revenge," or " OH WAIT IT WAS ACTUALLY ME WHO KILLED MY WIFE." Lords of Shadow had the nega-balls to pack these two overused scenarios in one game. This plot twist was cool when Silent Hill 2 did it ten years ago. It's in even more poor taste for a game advertised by its deep and emotional storyline (of which LoS's was neither).
Title: Re: imporant Improvements for the Castlevania 3D genre
Post by: Kingshango on January 10, 2011, 09:27:07 PM
Just coming here to remind you guy's the walls have eyes, be careful what you post here.

With that said, I agree with Munchy. QTE's can die in a horrible fire, if your gonna make a cutscene, make a cot damn cutscene. Don't just spring up a QTE out of nowhere  after a long ass battle. Find a better design choice than just resorting to the old, overused, overdone, overrated and lazy design choices that are QTE's. In fact, if your game isn't Dragons Lair or Shenmue, your game should NOT have QTE's in them.

Hear me Enric, Cox, no more QTE's in future installments plz? Just make elaborate uninterupted cutscenes and I'll promise you everyone on this board will watched them without skipping, you have my word as a fan and a consumer.

As for plot twist's, I like them as long as they're done right.( I for one like the big twist at the end of the game.)


Title: Re: imporant Improvements for the Castlevania 3D genre
Post by: Dremn on January 10, 2011, 10:03:54 PM
Only hopes I have for future installments is that they feel more like a Castlevania game in spirit. Don't get me wrong I loved Lords of Shadow, but I still have that lingering feeling of wishing it could have been a bit more Castlevania influenced instead of...well the new direction.

All sub weapons, pot roast/food hidden in the walls, and candles/torches to whip with hearts/money shouldn't be that much to ask for in the sequel. As much as I loved destroying/whipping the artifacts/objects in the levels they could have easily have been candles/torches instead.
Title: Re: imporant Improvements for the Castlevania 3D genre
Post by: Alutwon on January 10, 2011, 10:29:55 PM
delete :P
Title: Re: imporant Improvements for the Castlevania 3D genre
Post by: Alutwon on January 10, 2011, 10:33:21 PM
I respect what LoS is and I really do enjoy it, but I feel like I'd be able to appreciate it more if the sequel got back to what CV should be about (and if MS took advice from Munchy). Basically what I'm saying it that It's okay to have oddballs here and there and LoS much like HoDiss or Simon's quest is an oddball imo.
Title: Re: imporant Improvements for the Castlevania 3D genre
Post by: X on January 11, 2011, 12:38:48 AM
Simon's Quest was an odd-ball in the classic series, but it still felt like Castlevania. I'd personally go with a more CV64/LoD type game with vast improvements on graphics, camera, etc.

-X
Title: Re: imporant Improvements for the Castlevania 3D genre
Post by: Munchy on January 11, 2011, 01:39:09 AM
You know, it is an oddball. While I do have a strange desire for every game series to have at least one "Game of the Movie" entry, Lords of Shadow delivered it sort of in that manner. It's certainly not a bad game by any stretch of the imagination.

One last bit of advice for MercurySteam's next CV: You might not want to use the phrase, "Forget everything you know about Castlevania." That reeeeaaally turned me off. If you want to know why, ask yourself this: Would you be very happy if Miyamoto, when advertising the next Mario game, told you to forget everything you knew about Mario? I sure as hell wouldn't. Not only would I not want to forget, I would kind of resent the insistence that I do forget. It's not quite accusatory but something still rubs me wrong with that phrase.
Title: Re: imporant Improvements for the Castlevania 3D genre
Post by: VampirehunterB on January 11, 2011, 05:56:27 AM
You might not want to use the phrase, "Forget everything you know about Castlevania." That reeeeaaally turned me off.


yeah, what the hell was he thinking stating that you should forget the earlier castlevania completely..I strongly reconsidered not to play the game at all when he said that..
Title: Re: imporant Improvements for the Castlevania 3D genre
Post by: darkwzrd4 on January 11, 2011, 10:28:44 AM
Simon's Quest was an odd-ball in the classic series, but it still felt like Castlevania. I'd personally go with a more CV64/LoD type game with vast improvements on graphics, camera, etc.

-X
3D castlevanias should have elements of SCV4, CV64/LoD, and LoI in terms of game play.  In other words, platforming, swinging, and some puzzle solving.  Titan fights should be like the Forgotten One from LoI and/or Legion from CoD.
Title: Re: imporant Improvements for the Castlevania 3D genre
Post by: Flame on January 11, 2011, 11:08:34 AM
Really, theres people who actually got bothered by "forget everything you knew about castlevania"?
really?
Geez, I know Gamers hate change, I mean Megaman 9 and 10 are proof enough- But damn...

Quote
yeah, what the hell was he thinking stating that you should forget the earlier castlevania completely..I strongly reconsidered not to play the game at all when he said that..
Yeah how DARE he try to reinvent Castlevania. How DARE he try to take the franchise into a new direction in 3D where Konami's previous attempts have been from mediocre to "good" at best. How DARE he reboot the series to entice new players with a clean slate story and not years of history to catch up on.
Just make another pointless castle maze thats what he should have done. Yup.

Quote
Would you be very happy if Miyamoto, when advertising the next Mario game, told you to forget everything you knew about Mario?
I wouldnt know what to think and would wait for the game to judge that phrase. After all, that phrase can mean many things.
Title: Re: imporant Improvements for the Castlevania 3D genre
Post by: VampirehunterB on January 11, 2011, 05:40:01 PM
Really, theres people who actually got bothered by "forget everything you knew about castlevania"?
really?
Geez, I know Gamers hate change, I mean Megaman 9 and 10 are proof enough- But damn...
Yeah how DARE he try to reinvent Castlevania. How DARE he try to take the franchise into a new direction in 3D where Konami's previous attempts have been from mediocre to "good" at best. How DARE he reboot the series to entice new players with a clean slate story and not years of history to catch up on.
Just make another pointless castle maze thats what he should have done. Yup.


Well I would interpret it as " screw the earlier castlevania completely, let's develop a completely new game franchise..let's just call it castlevania.."

I do not mean that the earlier 3d CVs were outstanding when considering the gameplay..but the atmosphere, music..the game called "castlevania" was still there... LoS became more like any ordinary fantasy game.. a good action game but nothing of character...
Title: Re: imporant Improvements for the Castlevania 3D genre
Post by: Flame on January 11, 2011, 06:43:47 PM
Once again, it boils down to "what makes Castlevania."

And my interpretation of Castlevania is Belmont+Whip, Familiar enemies, A Castle, supernatural heavy plot.

Journey to the castle is also in my interpretation as many Pre-IGA games had that, and thats more what Cox was trying to channel. The fantastic and sometimes odd areas present in classicvanias.
Title: Re: imporant Improvements for the Castlevania 3D genre
Post by: VampirehunterB on January 11, 2011, 07:50:16 PM
Once again, it boils down to "what makes Castlevania."

And my interpretation of Castlevania is Belmont+Whip, Familiar enemies, A Castle, supernatural heavy plot.


I agree with you too...super CV IV and sotn were the best games of all according to me...the upcoming CV should be inspired by both sotn and super cv IV combined.
Title: Re: imporant Improvements for the Castlevania 3D genre
Post by: Flame on January 11, 2011, 08:57:17 PM
Well apparently you agree in a different way than i do, because I didnt mind LoS departing from "everything I knew about Castlevania" it was an interesting experiment in creative liberty with the franchise which I think was done pretty well.
Title: Re: imporant Improvements for the Castlevania 3D genre
Post by: DragonSlayr81 on January 12, 2011, 07:24:37 AM
Well apparently you agree in a different way than i do, because I didnt mind LoS departing from "everything I knew about Castlevania" it was an interesting experiment in creative liberty with the franchise which I think was done pretty well.
I'm guessing, Flame, you are talking about the "idea" of "forget everything you know about Castlevania" and not LoS, because LoS most definitely did NOT forget everything about CV. If that was the case, we wouldn't have gotten all those names thrown in. I think Cox muttering that phrase was just to raise "reboot hype", but it defintely didn't not apply in full to LoS. There might have been some bits of LoS that didn't feel CV-ish, but there's a good chunk that did.

As far as the "idea" is concered, which is applied to most reboots, if you strive to do something that forgets the source material, you might have a better reception if you just make your own IP. That's the only true way to start a new project with a clean slate and no baggage at all. Maybe it's the times and the Recession, and that's the reason why everybody's playing it safe, hiding behind franchise names to push new ideas. This is a pretty big problem in the movie industry(well, American movie industry). Production companies aren't as adventurous as they used to be, but people forget that the only way to create new iconic franchises is to take a chance on a new IP. Look at Square Enix, who half-ass most of their IP attempts(with the exception of KH), and only focus on the big names. Had they shown the amount of dedication that the do to the FF series, they could've got some heads together and create 5 NEW RPG series with the same heart as the FF series. But it's safer to develope a new FF game, because it's a sure thing.