Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: Pentagram-cracker on January 23, 2011, 08:25:57 PM
-
In both Rondo of Blood and The Dracula X Chronicles (which is a remake), there's a boss fight with Carmilla where you face a giant naked form of Carmilla as she floats on a giant skull and then you fight a beautiful vampire girl in a pink dress who looks very much like Carmilla in Circle of the Moon. However there was a similar enemy to the girl in pink that appeared in Portrait of Ruin who was named Laura (after the heroine of the novel Carmilla). Because of this a lot of fans seem to think the same girl who appeared alongside Carmilla's giant nude form in RoB and DXC was actually Laura, even though her name was never revealed.
I think it could be possible that it wasn't Laura, but actually Carmilla. The reason is because a. she looks a lot like she did in Circle of the Moon and b. both the giant boss and karate-kicking woman in bondage you fight have the exact same hair and skin color. I think maybe the vampire in the refined pink dress was Carmilla and the woman floating on a giant skull was like her evil soul. The dress form was like her normal undead body walking around and trying to feed on the hero, and you had to destroy her soul in order to destroy her body.
What do you guys think? Discuss theories about this here. :)
-
A) No she doesn't. The only similarity is that they are both wearing pink garments. Even their hair colors are different.
B) No they don't. In RoB, Carmilla has light blue hair and medium-brown skin, where as Laura has bright blue hair and fair skin.
C) PoR made it canon that the girl is Laura.
-
even though her name was never revealed.
She had already been written Laura by the Japanese Rondo of Blood guide in 1993.
http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/2/rob-guidebook.htm (http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/2/rob-guidebook.htm)
Official Guide Page 59 "Kamīra and Raura"
-
Ah OK... I feel embaressed now. :-[
-
Nothing to be embaressed about. I was trying to figure this out too eversince seeing her in PoR. I always thought that the RoB Carmilla fight was something like this: You had Carmilla's vampire spirit afloat on a giant skull while her human counterpart strattled the room waiting to catch you off-guard. Then after you fought off the spirit, Carmilla's true form is revealed and starts ninja-kicking the living s**t outta you.
-X
-
Yeah that's what I thought too. Especially since Laura in Rondo of Blood and Carmilla in Circle of the Moon look very similar.
Maybe Laura was trying to disguise as Carmilla? :-\
-
How do their looks factor in? They're different games developed by different teams at different times. Elizabeth Bartley dresses kinda like Carmilla in COTM. COULD THEY BE THE SAME PERSON? (Well, OK, it's possible they could be, since Carmilla in the novel was somewhat inspired by Elizabeth Bathory, whom of course Elzabeth Bartley was based on, but I doubt they're intended to be the same person in Castlevania.)
-
Oh I get it, that was supposed to be sarcasm...
I guess I should explain that the only Castlevania games I've played are The Dracula X Chronicles and the unlockables Rondo of Blood and Symphony of the Night. I'm pretty new to the series so I don't know everything about the characters other then what I've read. I assumed that Laura was never named in the original Rondo of Blood and was only named in Portrait of Ruin, and because I thought Laura was dressed very similar to Carmilla in Circle of the Moon with the pink dress and brown hair I assumed it was possible that it may have been Carmilla we were fighting. You can't deny that they look very similar even with the fact that they were designed by different people or whatever, and for the record I think Elizabeth looks nothing like Carmilla/Laura so that was a pretty poor observation to make just for the sake of being a smart-ass.
-
Actually Bartley does resemble both Laura (RoB) and Carmilla (CotM), or rather Carmilla (CotM) resembles Bartley (CVB) and Laura (RoB).
Ha ha! We're Castlevania geeks! :D
-
and for the record I think Elizabeth looks nothing like Carmilla/Laura so that was a pretty poor observation to make just for the sake of being a smart-ass.
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages1.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20080811124041%2Fcastlevania%2Fimages%2F7%2F7b%2FBartleyfull2.gif&hash=d947d340af29025ac821fc7264d7cc6230f8e54a) (https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages4.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20080227211555%2Fcastlevania%2Fimages%2Fthumb%2F8%2F8b%2FCamilla.jpg%2F362px-Camilla.jpg&hash=2680189b847d412676ba679787d3631b13cd82bb)
You don't see a resemblance? :p It wasn't an "observation for the sake of being a smartass" (though it did have smartassy motives behind it).
-
I think the only resemblence those two have is their bust-size :o
-X
-
What about the pink lacy goodness accompanying those ample cartoon bosoms?
-
Yeah, seriously are you guys looking at the same picture me and Freak are?
I'll admit that CotM Carmilla ALSO has some similarities to RoB/PoR Laura, but to the black bondage outfit, not the pink dress.
That pink dress in RoB/PoR is like a nightgown looking thing, not a poofy, ruffly pink & red dress.
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ft1.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AANd9GcSwqqtMIY5dU9UE48xMBbTIHE873aE7SnB_Ppe_-5gQb1i6FuxncA&hash=02b03bf62c9b034cd9b8b29b6fc004d5f2f3f9dc) (https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages1.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20080807182215%2Fcastlevania%2Fimages%2F9%2F9c%2FLaura2.gif&hash=72680fe2f0b7c24e6b785ef00b3310c96fbb7bc3) (https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages3.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20080807182158%2Fcastlevania%2Fimages%2Fa%2Fa3%2FLaura.gif&hash=630a473f88f6bdaa693499b277173d2e7841aec4) (https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages3.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20090418055323%2Fcastlevania%2Fimages%2Fthumb%2Fb%2Fb9%2FPoR_Illustrated_Acrobat.JPG%2F127px-PoR_Illustrated_Acrobat.JPG&hash=57e12d08ff62f9333157c3c6f8ffb24c944fc3e0)
If anything the CotM Carmilla looks like a cros between Elizabeth and Vampire Laura.
-
She had already been written Laura by the Japanese Rondo of Blood guide in 1993.
http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/2/rob-guidebook.htm (http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/2/rob-guidebook.htm)
Official Guide Page 59 "Kamīra and Raura"
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fxmages.net%2Fstorage%2F10%2F1%2F0%2F1%2F8%2Fupload%2F00094d19.jpg&hash=3e46769d7ea75925f27423d66b8c280ff7f78c66)
Alternative title for Rondo of Blood.
-
So if Reincarnation of Blood is the English-printed subtitle for this official guidebook, why does it officially get named Castlevania: Rondo of Blood outside of Japan? D: Name recognition? Is that even a proper translation? Ha.
-
It's what they used in DXC.
It actually says "Rondo of Blood" so it's, I guess, retroactively confirmed by IGA team & co.
-
Yeah, DXC and the Virtual Console release. I just wonder how the Reincarnation of Blood title came about, if that's not exactly what the original Japanese title is getting at. I dunno. "Rondo" of Blood. Do the words used actually translate to that precisely, or could "Circle" be used, too? Or is there a Japanifying of an English word going on in the title (a la "Dracula" in the series' title)?
-
I think the use of reincarnation here stems from a misunderstanding of the term 'rondo' as a musical one.
-
This happens a few times.
I've seen "Chi" used as both Blood and as Soul, as well!
I've seen Alucard say "The scent of your blood.. you're a Belmont!" and in HoD, Death says "The color of your soul..." instead.
"Reincarnation" comes from "Circle" which is another way of saying "Rondo". A 'circle' in JPN, I've read, has some ties to reincarnation, but I'm not sure on this one.
-
I think the use of reincarnation here stems from a misunderstanding of the term 'rondo' as a musical one.
ohsheeeeeeeeet D:
I never even knew "rondo" was a musical term. I assume the title Rondo of Blood has more to do with Belmont family ties, though—divine bloodlines, holy Dracula butt-kickers. But, with the series' use of musical terms from Nocturne in the Moonlight up, it could also be looked at as a musical title, a double meaning.
But, looking at online dictionaries right now, I see no entries for "rondo" being a word for "circle." Is this a foreign-language word? I've always known the word to mean circle, so...hmm.
But hey, maybe we're all wrong and the game's title really translates "Soul's Grape (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rondo_(grape))".
-
http://www.castlevaniadungeon.net/features/gamename.html (http://www.castlevaniadungeon.net/features/gamename.html)
This is a very interesting title - the kanji has been translated as "reincarnation" on the official strategy guide - however, the furigana (pronunciation guide) says to pronounce it "rondo". "Rondo" can mean "circle", another reason why the title is sometimes called "Circle of Blood". Indeed, a reincarnation is part of cycle (birth, death, rebirth, etc). However, merely translating it as "Circle" loses the musical connotation.
The rondo form involves the use of a recurrent theme between a series of varied episodes, often used for the rapid final movement of a classical concerto or symphony.
http://castlevania.wikia.com/wiki/Castlevania:_Rondo_of_Blood (http://castlevania.wikia.com/wiki/Castlevania:_Rondo_of_Blood)
Note: "輪廻" is literally pronounced "rinne". The word is the Japanese term for samsara, the Buddhist cycle of death and rebirth. For this particular game however, "Rondo" is the official pronunciation of the kanji in the game title.
-
That leaves me more confused, ha ha. How can the furigana say to pronounce the kanji in a different way? How does that even work? Is it sort of like a wordplay or something? Might help if I knew just how exactly "rinne" is supposed to be pronounced, because that string of letters doesn't really tell me. "Rih-neh"?
Still, nice to know about the Buddhist reincarnation thing. Both that and the musical meaning of the word give me a deeper appreciation for the title; all this time I've felt it was kind of a silly albeit cool-sounding name, ha ha.
-
It is often in Japanese.
For instance, "Akumajou Dracula: Shikkoku Taru Zensoukyoku" is "Akumajou Dracula: Dark Night Prelude".
http://www.castlevaniadungeon.net/Images/Scans/CVL/b-cvl-j.jpg (http://www.castlevaniadungeon.net/Images/Scans/CVL/b-cvl-j.jpg)
-
Roughly, what would "Shikkoku Taru Zensoukyoku" translate to without the pronunciation key?
So, even though the subtitle is Japanese, the pronunciation key says it should be said "Dark Night Prelude" in English? Fascinating. o.o Makes me wonder, though, how someone not-in-the-know would know to pronounce it that way if he or she were to see the title in text without the pronunciation key (that is, written 悪魔城ドラキュラ漆黒たる前奏曲 without ダークナイト プレリュード written above/below or alongside it), unlike with the logo where it's right there under the kanji.
My Castlevania geek knowledge, I feel it increasing.
-
Love the foreign intricacies of this. Great thread, guys!
-
If you guys like this stuff you should look into the character names in Final Fantasy Tactics.
There's a hand full of given names it seems the localizers for both versions of the game just didn't get the regional implications of.
-
one of my theories is that Carmilla possesses her servant Laura's body in Circle of the Moon and Judgment. in all other games, Carmilla is a spirit.
edit: oh, and after reading what "X" said above, you could also say that Carmilla possess Laura after her spirit form is defeated, which is why laura gets so much more aggressive. and it'd explain why Carmilla fights so much like Laura does in Judgment.
-
OR... Laura is simply a vampire and likely learned how to fight from Carmilla. There's no precedent for vampire possession of other vampires in the series and it seems like it would be one of those little details they'd mention in the Japanese manuals if it were true.
-
I just assumed Carmilla converted Laura to vampiric lesbianism. o .o
-
Reviving this topic because it's badass and stuff I actually like reading and discussing on this board.
Roughly, what would "Shikkoku Taru Zensoukyoku" translate to without the pronunciation key?
Never got a response to this. D': I assume it's roughly the same as "Dark Night Prelude," but the furigana says to pronounce it in English. This still boggles my mind and is super cool.
Same with the Rondo of Blood title. Rinne, Buddhist death and rebirth cycle, Reincarnation of Blood an official guide subtitle, more furigana goodness showing to say it "Rondo"... BOOOOOOOOOOOOOM, head explod!
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwhooties.homestead.com%2Ffiles%2Fhitlerexplod.gif&hash=1dfad15c964e8b54082ec7e1b32023e06f711c66)
-
Rondo of Blood is the first true musically themed Castlevania, I have discovered.
Rondo and its French part-equivalent rondeau are words that have been used in music in a number of ways, most often in reference to a musical form, but also to a character-type that is distinct from the form.
The term and formal principle may have derived from the medieval poetic form, rondeau, which contains repetitions of a couplet separated by longer sections of poetry.
In rondo form, a principal theme (sometimes called the "refrain") alternates with one or more contrasting themes, generally called "episodes," but also occasionally referred to as "digressions" or "couplets." Possible patterns in the Classical period include: ABA, ABACA, or ABACADA. The number of themes can vary from piece to piece, and the recurring element is sometimes embellished and/or shortened in order to provide for variation.
The Baroque predecessor to the rondo was the ritornello. Ritornello form was used in the fast movements of baroque concertos. The entire orchestra (in Italian, tutti) plays the main ritornello theme, while soloists play the intervening episodes. While Rondo form is similar to ritornello form, it is different in that ritornello brings back the subject or main theme in fragments and in different keys, but the rondo brings back its theme complete and in the same key.
A common expansion of rondo form is to combine it with sonata form, to create the sonata rondo form. Here, the second theme acts in a similar way to the second theme group in sonata form by appearing first in a key other than the tonic and later being repeated in the tonic key. Unlike sonata form, thematic development does not need to occur except possibly in the coda.
Examples include the final movement of J.S. Bach's E Major Violin Concerto and the second movement of Beethoven's Piano Sonata, Op. 13.
Rondo as a character-type (as distinct from the form) refers to music that is fast and vivacious – normally Allegro. Many classical rondos feature music of a popular or folk character. They include Mozart's Rondo in A minor K.511. Music that has been designated as "rondo" normally subscribes to both the form and character. On the other hand, there are many examples of slow and reflective works that are rondo in form but not in character.
A well-known operatic vocal genre of the late 18th century, referred to at that time by the same name but distinguished today in English and German writing by the differently accented term "rondò" is cast in two parts, slow-fast.
Suck on that, Symphony of the Night.
Interestingly, Rondo is a "musical refrain form" which could also indicate a revival or repetition, meaning the title Rondo of Blood has some SERIOUS meaning running through it, more so than other Castlevanias.
-
Oh, yeah, the musical term also. HYPER HEAD EXPLOD-ING II′ TURBO CHAMPION EDITION
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwhooties.homestead.com%2Ffiles%2Fhitlerexplodfast.gif&hash=0d837ebba7f942a1432ee2dbde3a48d8666964ab)
There's just so much damn meaning in the Rondo of Blood title.
And here, as a kid, I always just assumed they used "rondo" rather than "circle" because it sounded cool.
-
I've been playing CV for many years, and I never understood until reading this that the Laura in PoR was supposed to be the same character as that boss fight in Rondoreincarnationcircle of Blood. Something new every day, indeed.
-
Knew it as soon as I learned about Rondo of Blood in details. Thanks to this site and others.
I tend to read all possible information about the game before I play it.