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The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => Hardcore Gaming 101 => Topic started by: K.G. Morder on January 24, 2011, 06:29:11 AM

Title: Mega Man Legends 3
Post by: K.G. Morder on January 24, 2011, 06:29:11 AM
(http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/7596/alwaysbetonrocklegends3.jpg)

ALWAYS BET ON ROCK
(Oh come on. You know it's a fair comparison)

Almost what, 10 years after Mega Man Legends 2 ended on a cliffhanger ending,
Megaman Legends 2 Ending 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q42B3P_igOE#)

We are finally getting-

Mega Man Legends 3 Project Recruitment Trailer [HD] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kN1Om_Jpog4#ws)
Mega Man Legends 3!
(click to show/hide)

for YEARS fans have pressured Keiji Inafune for a new Legends, Capcom not letting him make one as the series did not reach expectations. He always said if he could get the money, he would do it himself.

And after years of teasing us with cameo after cameo in other games, Inafune finally garnered the green light from his uppers to start the Mega Man Legends 3 project! Finally Rock is going to be rescued from way up in Elysium.

What makes this so special though, is that this time around, the game will feature heavy fan input from both Japan and the western world through Capcom unity and it's Japanese equivalent.

Discuss?

Title: Re: Mega Man Legends 3
Post by: Hanniballistic on January 24, 2011, 01:43:14 PM
I can't wait!  I hope they can put the first two up for download so I can replay them before I give this one a go.  The idea of fan input into the development of a game is awesome and I wish they would do this with more beloved franchises.
Title: Re: Mega Man Legends 3
Post by: X on January 24, 2011, 10:53:05 PM
I never got into the MML series since it was a Gaiden rather then a part of the original series. That and the fact that it was in full 3D rather then a classic side-scroller.

-X
Title: Re: Mega Man Legends 3
Post by: Munchy on January 24, 2011, 11:46:00 PM
You know, for how much of a Mega Man freak I was back in the day I sure didn't play these a lot. I should play through the first one again and finish the second one sometime.

All I remember is that Tiesel Bonne had the best voice actor possibly in the universe.
Title: Re: Mega Man Legends 3
Post by: K.G. Morder on January 25, 2011, 11:12:14 AM
I never got into the MML series since it was a Gaiden rather then a part of the original series. That and the fact that it was in full 3D rather then a classic side-scroller.

-X
It is a part of the original series.

Classic -> X -> Zero ->->->-> ZX ->->->->->->->-/ /->->->-->->->-> Legends
Title: Re: Mega Man Legends 3
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on January 25, 2011, 03:01:50 PM
Yeah the ones not part of the original series, but rather 'another dimension', are the Battle Network titles.
The Gaiden titles from the original are the one PC MegaMan game, and the Gameboy titles with the Planet enemies.
Title: Re: Mega Man Legends 3
Post by: K.G. Morder on January 25, 2011, 07:58:05 PM
And the two X series GBC titles which take place, respectively, between X2 and 3,  and X3 and 4
Title: Re: Mega Man Legends 3
Post by: X on January 25, 2011, 10:18:46 PM
I know that the series goes something like this: MM_MMX_MMZ_MMZX. But where exactly does Legends fit into the established timeline? It came out even before MMZ. Or before MMX5 for that matter.

-X
Title: Re: Mega Man Legends 3
Post by: crisis on January 25, 2011, 10:38:00 PM
Well according to the creators/guidebooks, Legends takes place roughly 3000 years after the events of all the other series. Why the creators decided to stretch it out like that? Who knows.


There are several hints in the games that allude to the Legends series:

- In X5 ending, MegaMan X converses with the Maverick Hunters how he would like to create a paradise where both Reploids & Humans coexist; he calls this place "Elysium" (the place where MegaMan Trigger is stranded at the conclusion to Legends 2). However, this ending isn't canon (it could also be argued that he was alluding to Neo Arcadia, the gov't in MMZ which was originally intended to be a paradise but became corrupt)

- Various areas in the MMZ games show architexture that resembles Legends-era ruins (Reaverbot symbols, etc.)

- The fact that humans can choose to have machine bodies in ZX & vice-versa, which allows for them to live on for hundreds of years ("The Master" in Legends 2 was the last human, but with technology was able to survive for a couple thousand years)


I'm sad that the ZX series was cut short; despite being kinda campy, it was basically created to fill in the gap leading up to Legends (given that with each series they were jumping several hundred years after the last). It definately isn't as mature as the Zero series, but a ZX3 could've fixed all that. Oh well... maybe some day.
Title: Re: Mega Man Legends 3
Post by: X on January 25, 2011, 10:45:14 PM
Well that clears things up for sure. But I had always concidiered MMX to be the most mature of the series while MM was the total end of the spectrum. For me, MMZ was way too apochalyptic for my taste eventhough the series ends where human civilization and nature have almost recovered. MMZX was interesting but I have yet to finish MMZX 2. I am dissapointed to hear about humanity being wiped out in Legends though kinda sad really. I guess Sigma's goal of genecide wasn't mere pipedream after all.

-X
Title: Re: Mega Man Legends 3
Post by: K.G. Morder on January 26, 2011, 12:17:08 AM
Well according to the creators/guidebooks, Legends takes place roughly 3000 years after the events of all the other series. Why the creators decided to stretch it out like that? Who knows.


There are several hints in the games that allude to the Legends series:

- In X5 ending, MegaMan X converses with the Maverick Hunters how he would like to create a paradise where both Reploids & Humans coexist; he calls this place "Elysium" (the place where MegaMan Trigger is stranded at the conclusion to Legends 2). However, this ending isn't canon (it could also be argued that he was alluding to Neo Arcadia, the gov't in MMZ which was originally intended to be a paradise but became corrupt)

- Various areas in the MMZ games show architexture that resembles Legends-era ruins (Reaverbot symbols, etc.)

- The fact that humans can choose to have machine bodies in ZX & vice-versa, which allows for them to live on for hundreds of years ("The Master" in Legends 2 was the last human, but with technology was able to survive for a couple thousand years)


I'm sad that the ZX series was cut short; despite being kinda campy, it was basically created to fill in the gap leading up to Legends (given that with each series they were jumping several hundred years after the last). It definately isn't as mature as the Zero series, but a ZX3 could've fixed all that. Oh well... maybe some day.
Really. stop misusing the word "canon". it is canon, its IN the game. what you mean is "it didnt really happen".

Also, nowhere does it say it was 3000 years! we dont know HOW much time has passed. but certainly enough for the world to be flooded, the elder system to be made and abandoned, Elysium created and abandoned, Carbons to replace humans... and a few reinitializations.

in other words, a lot of shit goes down.
Title: Re: Mega Man Legends 3
Post by: crisis on January 26, 2011, 01:06:37 AM
Quote
Really. stop misusing the word "canon". it is canon, its IN the game. what you mean is "it didnt really happen".
I dunno if this was meant to be a kneejerk reaction or a smartass comment, but "canon" can be used 1 of 2 diff. ways, "as a descriptor of specific incidents, relationships, or story arcs that take place within the overall canon." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_(fiction)) So the context I used it in is still technically correct.. the X5 ending in which Zero died "for real," X loses his memory of him & describes Elysium to his comrades isn't considered the "canon" ending. It's not that big a deal, man.. (http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt218/darthnull/Emoticons/rolleye.gif)


I got the 3000 figure from the fact that The Master survived for about 3000 years, the exact figure could be 3500-4000 years for all we know.
Title: Re: Mega Man Legends 3
Post by: Kale on January 26, 2011, 03:15:14 AM
I know that the series goes something like this: MM_MMX_MMZ_MMZX. But where exactly does Legends fit into the established timeline? It came out even before MMZ. Or before MMX5 for that matter.

-X

I remember something about it happening around 50XX.
Title: Re: Mega Man Legends 3
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on January 26, 2011, 06:19:59 AM
...the context I used it in is still technically correct...
- the best kind of correct!
Title: Re: Mega Man Legends 3
Post by: K.G. Morder on January 26, 2011, 11:15:12 AM
I dunno if this was meant to be a kneejerk reaction or a smartass comment, but "canon" can be used 1 of 2 diff. ways, "as a descriptor of specific incidents, relationships, or story arcs that take place within the overall canon." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_(fiction)) So the context I used it in is still technically correct.. the X5 ending in which Zero died "for real," X loses his memory of him & describes Elysium to his comrades isn't considered the "canon" ending. It's not that big a deal, man.. (http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt218/darthnull/Emoticons/rolleye.gif)
It sort of IS a big deal. you have no idea how much the Mega Man fandom misuses the damn word. Throwing it around like its nothing. Not canon are for example, the mangas. they are not canon to the games. or the bandai card series, which is 'semi canon'.

just for the record...
(click to show/hide)
all those endings OCCUR in Mega Man X5, and therefore, they are part of the canon. They are all simply branches into different paths. Paths simply never explored. in one ending, X's memory of Zero is wiped and he mentions wanting to create Elysium. (now mind you BTW, Elysium was the English name for the place, which in Japan was named 'Heaven' so whether he was reffering to the Legends place or to Neo Arcadia is anyone's guess )

And suddenly we have the introduction of Rockman Online, which apparently takes place parallel to the Zero series. Which makes it it's own branch. one branch goes tot he Zero series, whereas another leads to Rockman Online. (that is, if it is to be considered part of the Mega Man canon at all, )


Quote
I got the 3000 figure from the fact that The Master survived for about 3000 years, the exact figure could be 3500-4000 years for all we know.
thats how long he has survived for that long, but we dont quite know what happened before that. remember that something had to happen to flood the world and create the elder system that is somehow supressed by the Master system. But master never makes any mention of it in the flashbacks. (maybe Legends 3 will?) Its very possibl that much happened even before the Master. I mean we've got People like Master Albert and Master Thomas who want to reset the world, and in legends, seems very much like that happened. There has been an INCREDIBLE technological regression on Terra. Although at the same time, Carbons are basically advanced partly organic robots.
Title: Re: Mega Man Legends 3
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on January 26, 2011, 09:36:55 PM
Whoa whoa, wait a minute.  I'm not understanding something from what you're saying.

"All those endings occur in Mega Man X5" does not mean "They are part of the canon".  There would only be one of the endings which would be the one that's the de facto one that continues the storyline.  Multiple 'canon' endings would only work in a game with Time Travel, or alternate timelines, or multiple dimensions, and even in those, there's usually "the one" ending.

Just because there are multiple endings in a game doesn't mean they're all canon.  Usually one is the picked one.  You can die against Lavos in Chrono Trigger on a replay immediately, and watch the entire world be destroyed "But the future refused to change".... but that doesn't mean that's the 'canon' ending.  It is just one of the many that exist.  The 'canon' ending is whatever ending is chosen in the game's subsequent games and sequels.
The Chrono series is probably not the best example.

To put it in Castlevania terms:
Just because in one of Simon's Quest's endings Simon dies, doesn't mean that that IS the way the timeline continues.  The timeline continues assuming you get the best ending.  The same is true for the Sorrow titles.  Just because such an ending exist doesn't mean that it's the 'canon' ending.  I think by now every gamer who follows any game's storyline knows what the gamer's definition of 'canon' is.
Title: Re: Mega Man Legends 3
Post by: K.G. Morder on January 26, 2011, 10:52:36 PM
Canon isnt a term used to define an event described in a work that doesnt happen. Its a word that encompasses all works in a particular subject.

EG- "The Shakespeare canon"

Likewise, the Mega Man canon encompasses the two universes of the Mega Man franchise. (Classic to Legends and EXE to Star Force)

Just because one particular chain of events in some of the games are not the ones that the main timeline follows, does not mean they are not 'canon'. Thats misusing the word. Not canon would be say... If Bandai released a side manga based on X5 that had Zero turn into a flying monkey. THAT would be not canon to the games; because it was not made by capcom as part of or relating to the games.

Like I said, they are merely other endings. Simply other paths. Other branches.

To steal your comparison type, all because in Dawn of Sorrow, Soma doesnt actually become Dracula, doesnt mean that Julius mode is any less canon. It is another branch. One in which Soma DOES succumb and become Dracula.

X5's bad scenario is just as canon as the true scenario. Its not a matter of 'canon' but of which occurrence actually follows through in the timeline.

to use another comparison, remember those "choose your own story" Goosebumps books? All possibilities are canon, they are all written by R.L. Stine, and are all in the book.
Title: Re: Mega Man Legends 3
Post by: corneliab on January 27, 2011, 02:20:54 AM
Just because one particular chain of events in some of the games are not the ones that the main timeline follows, does not mean they are not 'canon'. Thats misusing the word.

No, it's just you clinging to a strictly-defined and IRRELEVANT definition of "canon" in an attempt to sound smart (read: it's not working) and derail the conversation with an utterly inane tangent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_(fiction) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_(fiction))

Here's a nice little quote for you:
Quote
Secondly, it is used "as a descriptor of specific incidents, relationships, or story arcs that take place within the overall canon"; thus certain incidents or relationships may be described as being canon or not.
Title: Re: Mega Man Legends 3
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on January 27, 2011, 07:20:49 AM
I'm gonna go ahead and agree with Corneliab on this one.  That is, with the definition Wikipedia describes as 'canon' for a work or works.
It's also the definition the entire forum uses when relating events in gaming, or the universe of a particular series.

And no, Julius Mode is not 'canon' by the definition of the term used in fiction, there.
Title: Re: Mega Man Legends 3
Post by: K.G. Morder on January 27, 2011, 07:38:14 AM
The thing is, it gets awfully confusing many times, considering the word can actually have two distinct meanings. one encompassing an entirely body of works, and another describing certain events within that body of works. Which is why I dont usually like the use of the word canon in those types of discussion. :\

You have NO idea how that word gets misused in the Mega Man fandom. I can tell you. I frequent at least three major Mega Man boards, and the absolute HORROR that is Capcom Unity.



Also, BAH, I DON'T NEED TO SOUND SMART. I AM VEEEEEERY SMART ALREADY, GOOD SIR. *monocle*