Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: Pentagram-cracker on February 08, 2011, 06:51:22 PM
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I think the thing I love most about Castlevania is how the game blends in different mythologies from different cultures. You have references to Christianity, Pagenism, Greek Mythology, Shinto, and even Classic Literature. It's like connecting all these different beliefs that often clash with each other to create an alternative universe in the game where things like magic and the supernatural are real. That's one of the really cool things about the series. :)
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I suppose I can't disagree with you.
But everything has got to come from somewhere. Almost all video games that involve monsters seem to derive their concepts from greek mythology and such. It is not uncommon to see such varied use of themes in games. It's just a matter of twisting ideas in the slightest way to make them seem original.
...and Castlevania certainly has an entertaining twisted mix of these concepts.
~Knight of religious group with whip fighting pseudo-mythological monsters headed by Dracula.
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I figured the mythology of the series was more like, "Is it mythological? Then it's under Dracula's command."
I do love the concept, though. It's also something I felt was missing in LoS; outside of the Finland/Danish/Wherever goblins and shit come from mythology (and some of the Castlevania mainstays), there just wasn't a lot of inspiration. Though the few really though-out and original creatures are fucking awesome, like the Coffin Creepers and the Headless Burrowers. (Also Baba Yaga was pretty cool; I wish she'd stayed around longer.)
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Yes it's what I love about Castlevania too, especially in SotN where there're so many of them and they're all beautifully realized. One thing I've always wondered, though, is how staunch Christians would view Castlevania, would they consider the series sacrilegious? I mean, with all these holy objects being used as weapons (especially when Alucard uses them) and Dracula quoting the bible...
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Well since the majority of Christians think all video games are evil and turning children into violent serial killers, I don't think Castlevania's potrayel of Christianity has any real baring on their opinion of the series regardless if the game shows it in a positive or negative light.
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Whoa whoa, that's not at all the majority.
You're thinking of a small minority of incredibly fundamentalist (and LOUD AS HELL) zealots. You know, the kind that think Yugioh is witchcraft and such.
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Well even when you have Christians who are OK with video games, I'm sure the fact that Castlevania features S&M-dressed succubi and real demons from the bible as bosses probably keeps a lot of them from wanting their kids to play it. Sometimes I actually wonder how games like Symphony of the Night got by with a "T for Teen" rating given all the gory violence and naked female monsters running all over the place.
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They care more about big violence in 3D games (Gears of War), and super-sexual stuff in games (God of War) than they care about a few suggestive-looking sprites on the screen. At least, from what I've seen.
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I dunno, but I think this topic is de-railing so we need to get back on subject. :)
You know what I always wondered? If the monsters in Greek Mythology could be viewed as "demons". A demon is really a creature in a religion that is hated by God or the Gods and Godesses and often does bad things to mortals like steal their souls, lead them to do evil things, or simply torture and eat people. Many monsters in Greek Mythology started off as humans or nymphs who did things to upset the Gods and were cursed and turned into horrifying monsters. Medusa was turned into a Gorgon because she and Posiedon had sex in Athena's temple (which was a huge insult to her because she was a Virgin Goddess), the Sirens became sailor-eaters with lovely voices because they failed to protect Demeter's daughter when she was kidnapped by Hades, and Scylla was turned into a terrifying sea monster because her beauty attracted the jealously of the sorceress Circe.
I think some monsters in Greek Mythology do have demonic traits which is why they ended up in a video game where you fight a lot of demons in addition to undead creatures.
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Actually, majority of Christians aren't the Bible-toting yahoos you see protesting funerals and condemning Teletubbies. Those are the extremists, and they are the minority. The only reason people think they make up the majority is because they are the loudest of all Christian groups. You know how the saying goes, the squeekiest wheel gets the oil. People who complain the most tend to stand out over those who are indifferent. Most Christians aren't no-different than your average non-Christian person. Sure, they go to church and pray, but they also are fans of heavy metal music, watch horror movies, get drunk, have sex and such(LO). There are more open-minded Christians than people think. It's just that "those ones", the loud mouth ones, give the rest a bad name. Of course, that's how it is with every group. Look at the Muslims. Just because there's a vocal, violent group or two doesn't mean that the majority of Muslims agree with such things. Hell, most Muslims condemn the terrorists.
Now, that all aside, yes, I love that about CV. Love that Dracula has rule over all monsters. This rule(the "Power to Rule") shows how great of a figure he is in the CV universe. He has the power to rule over ALL monsters, all things, even the ancient creatures that pre-date him.
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I think some monsters in Greek Mythology do have demonic traits which is why they ended up in a video game where you fight a lot of demons in addition to undead creatures.
Now that you pointed it out, I realize how weird it is that the Christian weapons could hurt the Greek monsters too, since Greek myth is polytheistic...
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Well, the base mythology seems to revolve around Christian ideas. All monsters are, basically, anti-God, anti-holy, even monsters from other countries, hence things that are considered "holy" hurt them. The Japanese sometimes do this in some of their anime. They try to merge what is considered "holy" throughout the world, into one base idea. For example, both Christian Priests and Shinto Priests can call upon holy power to vanquish evil(demons), and while their methods are different, the origin of this "holy power" basically comes from the same place. Or even try to create their own world "base religion" by saying that the Christian God is one of the benevolent gods from Asian mythology(just going under a different name), or that the "other benevolent gods" in other mythologies are actually angels under the Christian God's command. It's a link of mythology as a means to explain how holiness is connected and why demons from around the world fall under this holy power. At least I seen this a couple of times in various anime and manga, but it could also be a way to explain why non-Chrstian rooted monsters fall under holy artifacts.
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Now that you pointed it out, I realize how weird it is that the Christian weapons could hurt the Greek monsters too, since Greek myth is polytheistic...
Well, I've always thought that these holy weapons and artifacts may actually have little if any power of their own. I believe that most of the power comes from the person who is using the item. In essence, these weapons are essentially mediums for their wielders. For example, when the Belmonts throw a cross, their power is channeled through it and that's what does the damage. The whip is the exception. Plus, in LoI the whip wasn't always a "holy" one. It started out a just a really strong whip which was apparently stronger than most other weapons. It only became a "holy" whip after the rite that turned it into the vampire killer. Keep in mind that it was strong enough to beat Medusa before the rite. This is what leads me to conclude that most of the power comes from the person wielding the weapon. This is just my opinion though.
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Yes it's what I love about Castlevania too, especially in SotN where there're so many of them and they're all beautifully realized. One thing I've always wondered, though, is how staunch Christians would view Castlevania, would they consider the series sacrilegious? I mean, with all these holy objects being used as weapons (especially when Alucard uses them) and Dracula quoting the bible...
Depends on the Christian. The cool ones don't care. I had friends from church who loved these games.
Also one of our Christian composer friends loves the shit out of South Park.
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it's funny but i was drawn to castlevania because i am a christian. i guess it's because castlevania has that objective epic worldview of ''good vs. evil''. where as a lot of modern dramas in the media are more subjective, so that there is no absolute view of ethics, good or evil. God of War is a good game series but there is no universal standard of right and wrong between kratos and the greek gods in that universe so you don't get that great epic feeling of fighting evil.
i don't see a problem with using physical force against evil or it being depicted in media as a christian if it's logical and proper. there is a difference between justified force and violence. 'violence' is wrong, criminal or immoral force used against innocents. so fighting demons would be a good thing. the bible depicts angels and demons in constant warfare.
Jesus said to ''turn the other cheek'' when others persecute or humiliate christians but Jesus in luke 22:35-38 told His disciples to buy a sword for protection (in the ancient world men carried a sword to protect thier families from robbers and wild animals). Jesus also made a whip and drove out the money changers.
Jesus is the loving Lord of peace but He used force when it was proper.
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Jesus also made a whip
You just fucking blew my mind.
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yea, i always thought it would be cool if the castlevania storyline did something with the whip that jesus made. maybe it could have become the original 'vampire killer'' and then modified.
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Also I wonder if Maria's power to summon animal guardians comes from Pagenism? The Pagens were deep lovers of nature and animals and the idea of summoning animals spirits to help you sounds like something that would be a part of their belief. I don't think Maria is a Pagen herself because she seems more like a Christian, but it's possible she inherited a Pagen's gift for understanding and manipulating nature. She uses doves as her main weapons which are a symbolic animal of Christianity, so maybe it's using Pagen powers but with a Christian view?
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Well even when you have Christians who are OK with video games
I am a Christian, and I am OK with video games.
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There is no reason that creatures from other mythologies would not be affected. If in Christianity considers them evil, then the items that battle evil would naturally affect them, unless they are mislabeled, which they aren't (in the case of this game) because they all follow Dracula, who is evil.
Supernatural (the TV show) follows this formula as well.
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I am a Christian, and I am OK with video games.
Good for you! Now have a cookie. *hands cookie*
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The cookies again? Or was i thinking of pretzels..?
-X
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lol I dunno, it was just a poor attempt at being a smart ass on my part. :P
I guess I was wrong and not every Christian hates video games. I just assumed they would hate Castlevania because it has a lot of real demons in it, which even if you're fighting them with holy weapons it seemed understandable at least to me that Christians would find that offensive. But I was wrong and I admit that. :)
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Only people who would be offended are people who are too "religious" and probably think too highly of themselves in that religion. Or so I would think.
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Anyways like I pointed out earlier, I think Maria's animal weapons she uses are influenced by Pagenism. Pagens have a deep love for nature and some believed they could do things like communicate or summon animals. I don't think Maria is really a Pagen, especially seeing how she was alive in a time where Witchcraft was extremly taboo and you could be killed if they even thought you practised it. But I think somehow she inherited a supernatural understanding of nature that combined with her own Christian faith.
The games have other references to pagenism too, such as the pentagrams found in Symphony of the Night.
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Well, I'm not a Christian, and Castlevania is definitely not the most outrageous game series in terms of violence & sexual innuendo etc. But for some reason, I find it kinda unsettling when Dracula quotes the bible at the end of SotN. I mean, he was going on and on with his 'maniacal villain' stuff and then after he's got his ass kicked, he starts spouting bible verses...?
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I just enjoy a pleasant romp through a "well-decorated" castle killing monsters. That's all Castlevania boils down to and it's all I ever really thought about when I played the game. There's nothing for any person (Christian or what-have-you) to be offended about here. If you think there is then you just have a wild imagination (like the loud-mouth ignorant faith-obsessed laughables that were mentioned earlier).
I like to keep things simple and easy to understand. I think your whole concept of Pagenism is interesting but your just over-complicating Castlevania's design: it really makes no difference if "Pagenism" had an impact on the game or not.
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I get offended when the priest stabs be with like 5 swords in the confessional in SotN.
and it's PAGANISM people! /typonazi
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I get offended when the priest stabs be with like 5 swords in the confessional in SotN.
He wasn't a real priest to begin with. Remember it's Castlevania. Anything in there can and will happen that's evil, including that evil disguising itself as one of god's servants just to stick it to ya. But I don't think that he was supposed to be a priest. If you look at his haircut it makes him pass as more of a friar.
-X
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The blue one is a priest, the gray one is an evil spirit pretending to be a priest.
In the PSP version he actually says something like "In the name of the father, the son, and the holy spirit. Amen." He says it in Japanese in the Saturn version.
And I think that having demons in a game where you hunt demons would be good in the eyes of those fundamentalists. After all, you're slaying demons, amirite?
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And I think that having demons in a game where you hunt demons would be good in the eyes of those fundamentalists. After all, you're slaying demons, amirite?
You'd think that. But you'd be wrong, because... I dunno. My mom once saw the hyper cross thing in SotN and got offended that the cross would be used as a weapon. Our friend Drew, from the same church, thought it was fucking awesome. (Though this was ten years ago and she's gotten way better about fake violence in general, so..)
Protip for Christian fundamentalists: If you're looking for evil in movies and games, you are SO looking in the wrong place.
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^^^
Amen brother. 8)
-X
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personally i think that christians look at the game and think "uh oh violence and killing things" but only people who have played casltevania games know that the basis of the game is about the equilibrium (the balance between good and evil) and how the belmonts try to tip it into gods favor, infact LoS is really deep into it having a holy order to vanquish the demon of the world and tip the equilibrium into gods favor and that the original founders of it achived maximum holiness or somthing and ascended into heaven. im a christian and ive found the game inspiring but unless u have played the game u just tend to look at the killing and gore and perhapse the rating but not the thing as a whole with its storyline and plot and the reason for killing these things. i mean how are people supposed to know that the guy's head were bashing in with a cross till he explodes is actually a demon and deserves it and that were doing it to help god.
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Well since the majority of Christians think all video games are evil and turning children into violent serial killers, I don't think Castlevania's potrayel of Christianity has any real baring on their opinion of the series regardless if the game shows it in a positive or negative light.
REAAAAALLLLY?! the majority? easy ther ebuddy don;t derail ur own thread.
I agree with ur thread otherwise.. I think drawing from different mythologies is cool. i;m waiting for more African and Caribbean stuff tho... maybe caribbean obeah i'm waiting for baron samedi to make an appearance