Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: Thomas Belmont on March 31, 2011, 08:20:39 AM
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Do you think Iga knows how disliked he is by Castlevania fans or do you think he's totally oblivious?
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He is so disliked that people continues to ask games for him.
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Thread shoulda been titled "why Thomas Belmont hates IGA"
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IGA knows he's not liked by everyone but he also knows we'll buy his games anyway so whatever :P
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I think after LOS, we love him again =P
His games are decent and have a good fanbase, It's pretty obvious that he is not pretending to sell a million copies, Konami probably gave him a small budget to make the games also.
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I think after LOS, we love him again =P
Or realised how half-assed his efforts were and hate him more
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I don't dislike him entirely if thats what your saying.
But, I do dislike the fact he uses recycled sprites in his games and has poor level design for his 3D ones.
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Thread shoulda been titled "why Thomas Belmont hates IGA"
But it seems that a lot of people on Castlevania forums feel the same way.
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They do, but I'm not certain that a majority feel that way. The general consensus is that the Iga games are very good. And really, are SotN, AoS, and the DXC so bad that you hate their creator?
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They do, but I'm not certain that a majority feel that way. The general consensus is that the Iga games are very good. And really, are SotN, AoS, and the DXC so bad that you hate their creator?
I don't hate his games. I hate that they could have been a lot better. So much wasted potential. And I hate what he did to the characters and the story lines.
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There's other cv forums besides the CVD? lol
Either way I'm sure he's a nice guy, his country just got devastated so I don't think he loses any sleep over what some butthurt fans think about him. Sure his games could've been better in some aspects but what's done is done.
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Let's face it all of his games are essentially SotN clones in terms of graphics and he sucks at story telling. He has a broad view of what he wants to achieve, but sucks at the execution. Plus, he cares more about gameplay than story (which shows just how much he cares about the story). He should just tell someone essentially what he wants in the game in a broad sense and them step aside and let that person develop it from there.
There is so much potential, but the question is if Iga can see it and if he can execute it. Given his history, I don't have much hope, but even if it was just mediocre, I would still enjoy having a 1999 game.
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IGA is a good guy. Metroidvanias are cool games.
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Thread shoulda been titled "why Thomas Belmont hates IGA"
This I agree with^^^
Just because you hate IGA does not mean EVERYONE does.
There are plenty of IGA supporters (like myself) who still believes in him and hopes he will continue to work on CV.
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I think that, given the budgets they had, they were as good as they were gonna get. I'm guessing that he got an indie game's budget but really good staff and cut whatever corners he could to get a good game.
Honestly speaking, his games after SotN are pretty solid. Harmony looked great on old GBA's and for what he tried to do graphically, I suppose he had to sacrifice sound. Aria is really great in terms of controls and the sprites are mostly all-new, which was great. With the power and resolution of the DS (a resolution that more of less matches SotN and the console titles), he was able to save even more by bringing back the high quality sprites of Rondo and SotN... too bad the new sprites clash with the old ones. I think that's where things started to get weird.
The music for the games has always been top notch, even in Harmony (composition-wise, anyway). Michiru Yamane gets a lot of credit, but I think Soshiro Hokkai, Takashi Yoshida, Masahiko Kimura, and Yuzo Koshiro did some great additions. We will never really complain about Castlevania music from the IGA games (most of us won't anyway).
The stories are funky though. I don't know what to say about those. They seem like Japanese RPG cliches, but like with the Tales series, I don't think you can take the JAPAN out of the storylines. LoS shows a type of story not usually used in JPN games though, and it shows.
I generally like Iga.. probably a lot more so than I did when he was all "Forget about the N64 CV's" and "Legends isn't Canon" which pissed me off... but that was a long while ago. If he had worked every game possible into his Canon, perhaps people would dislike him less, and would just dislike the sprite recycling. I don't know, though.
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^^Totally agree. I personally think Konami's budgeting has led to more problems with the series than IGA himself has.
I'd like to see him make more CV games, but I'd love to see him get a bigger budget, and for someone to step in and help him make a good story.
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I'd like to point out that IGA didnt make Symphony.
The producer and director of symphony was Toru Hagihara.
IGA was just one of the writers, along with Toshiharu Furukawa.
At BEST, he might have been assistant director, but he was not the director.
all the OTHER Metroidvanias that followed were his.
Id like to point to the games he has been producer of.
* Castlevania Chronicles - Producer
* Castlevania: Harmony of Dissonance - Producer
* Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow - Producer
* Castlevania: Lament of Innocence - Producer
* Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow - Producer
* Castlevania: Curse of Darkness - Producer
* Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin - Producer
* Castlevania: The Dracula X Chronicles - Producer
* Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia - Producer
* Castlevania: Judgment - Producer
* Castlevania: The Adventure ReBirth - Producer
* Castlevania: Harmony of Despair - Producer
And here is the list MINUS the bad ones and ones that had poor stories. (and remakes as well. those dont count here.)
* Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow - Producer
* Castlevania: Lament of Innocence - Producer
* Castlevania: The Dracula X Chronicles - Producer
* Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia - Producer
That leaves us with precious few actually AMAZING games by him.
I cant vouch for order though. should it be removed? Im also going on the fact that Vampire killer is supposedly the bane of the night, and yet anyone can kill Dracula. Even non Belmonts/Morrises without the whip. which makes Dracula seem like a pushover. It weakens his significance and threat.
IGA Can be great when he wants to be. But he can also pull shit like Harmony of Despair or Judgment.
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toru hagihara was promoted midway through sotn's development, and then iga was made the new director. that's why he was the "assistant director." plus you know, he actually was a programmer too. so, sotn was the most he's been involved. he's also the one who came up with the concept and hired ayami kojima, well an interview says that he did. after he became director, they basically restarted the game i guess.
plus all of the vanias had pretty different directors iirc even with iga as producer, even aos and dos had separate directors. though i think harmony, loi, and cod shared the same director. harmony of despair and judgment weren't even by the same cv team, but outsourced.
it's also funny how sotn had the smallest team, when ooe had way more people and took two years as well and hhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
plus speaking of teams, the iga cv team itself has never been all that consistent. hod and aos are totally different. aos shares some with dos, but i think dos and por share more similar members. and ooe's team had a bunch of big changes to the member setup overall.
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Mmm whatever then. Guess I didnt do my research properly.
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Leave it to the CV community to do their homework. Piece by piece, it all comes together.
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Plus, he cares more about gameplay than story
Thank god for this!
Speaking about wasted potential is no more than just a twaddle, because we just don't have mysterious example of fully realised potential.
Anyway, I think that without IGA we most definitely wouldn't receive all these modern sprite-based side-scroller Castlevania games. Two or three "rebirth" titles maybe, not more.
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I love Castlevania in general. Which means I support IGA and his games. This hate for him is pretty yawn-inducing at this point. You could have found countless other threads to fill your IGA-hate meter.
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Or realised how half-assed his efforts were and hate him more
No, we realized we love him again. That is until he makes a new game and disappoints us all again.
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I do not hate IGA or his games. Sure they could have been a lot better in terms of story telling, but at least they have most of them, some excellent game play mechanics, great music and nice background designs.
Let's face it all, like it or not, LoS may have some interesting story telling, shiny graphics, but in terms of game play or music, it has nothing to do with Castlevania. Just take off the Castlevania from it's name and the characters, bosses names and it would be a GoW/Devil May Cry clone!!! In some places, it even looks like it has come from J. R. R. Tolkien, Lord of The Rings universe. Sorry, but as an old school gamer, i'm not so interesting in graphics and a good story/scenario alone, isn't enough for me to worship a game. Another think that i hate about game fans and critic, is that for every RPG game that comes out, must look or be better than Final Fantasy. This is so stupid, but i guess you can't blame them, as human stupidity is infinity. I know that everyone has his own opinion and i'm not trying to change anyones opinion, with this post, but you can't call the perfect game, a game that takes almost everything from other games and has almost nothing original, except from it's scenario. GoW rip off game play, generic enemies designs, that most of them are looking like Lord of The Rings and generic music aren't going to win me. I have played LoS more than the half game and i haven't touch it for more than 3 months.......because i lost my interest, up to the point were i am inside the game. Maybe i was having high standars for this game that i haven't met, when i play it...... :P
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have played LoS more than the half game and i haven't touch it for more than 3 months.......because i lost my interest, up to the point were i am inside the game. Maybe i was having high standars for this game that i haven't met, when i play it......
The issues you mention are addressed since Wygol :P
Gameplay mechanics in IGA games are good, but lately additions are more like gimmicks than anything else (Oh we had soul systmes, now we have gylphs! and they are the weapons too! Do you feel alone in your quest? then feel like a Pokemon mas--ahem, devil forger with your innocent devils!...) the formula is the same we played in SUper Metroid, and that sucks. Loations are not even varied anymore, you know, I'm really tired of "Corridor, shiny room, library, chapel, caves, torture room, spiked clock tower, catcombs, another shiny room, castle keep" estructure he has designed (carved in stone?) all this years.
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As i said, i'm not trying to change anyones opinion and i'm not licking the 3D Castlevania games, made by IGA, but still they are more close to what is Castlevania than LoS and no, i don't like Pokemons games. Game play mechanics, might seem identical each one with the previous, but they still are original in comparison to LoS who doesn't have, i repeat, doesn't have anything original in game play mechanics.... :P
If i start stealing aspects from other games and combine them into one game, it's the same as the sprite reusing that IGA is doing in most of his games. If you want to make the difference, then try and make something original and not stealing aspects and ideas from other games that other publicers have come up with.... :P
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Its borrowing, and Games have done it since the beginning of time.
Allow me to point out Mario and Sonic...
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Gameplay mechanics in IGA games are good, but lately additions are more like gimmicks than anything else (Oh we had soul systmes, now we have gylphs! and they are the weapons too! Do you feel alone in your quest? then feel like a Pokemon mas--ahem, devil forger with your innocent devils!...) the formula is the same we played in SUper Metroid, and that sucks. Loations are not even varied anymore, you know, I'm really tired of "Corridor, shiny room, library, chapel, caves, torture room, spiked clock tower, catcombs, another shiny room, castle keep" estructure he has designed (carved in stone?) all this years.
Im agree with you that the gameplay mechanics didtnt have evolve that much since Aria of Sorrow. They are the same, only with different name. Even PoR makes some similar way to obtain abilities. The Metroidvania is a little old, its true, after SoTN. But in Order of Ecclesia, seems like IGA wants to evolve in something more classic (or old school, if you prefer). But I think that !@#$% Judgment wasnt a good test to IGA to gain fanbase and probably Konami's trust. I simply hate that Obata designs!!!
In the other hand, I will never get tired of the CORE elements of CV. All games (if not almost all) have the elements you mentioned. Even 3D IGA games have references to old games (clockwork and the entrance in CoD, castle keep in both LoI and CoD), and not to mention the portable CVs, with the same +20 years of CV elements. Its true that since SoTN the castle have the same recurrent areas, but that areas are the same in old CVs. I will never get tired of this elements, because that is the identity of a game like Castlevania (without mention the great music, but thats other theme). Simply, if a get tired of the levels structure, I play some different games. Or, what elements did you put in a Castlevania game, without lose the essence? That would be a cuestion for all, including Mercury Steam, Alvarez and Cox :P.
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Borrowing/stealing, it's the same, because this way you are not evolving the series, you are not breaking something new to the series, something that we haven't seen yet.
If you ask people who have played Castlevania for the first time, through LoS and give them one from the past, the only thing that they will find the same is the name Castlevania.
If Mario borrow elements from Sonic, it doesn't make it a new game or different from Sonic. It will be just a clone with a different character as the main protagonist. So, when you are talking about something revolutionary, then you are speaking of something that no one has ever yet seen before and when Cox was talking about revolution, he should thing it again, because i haven't seen anything revolutionary. Every aspect of the game, has been seen on other games, GoW/Devil May Cry/Lord of The Rings/Shadow of the colossus, are some..... ::)
Yes, IGA's games, may have using the Metroid exploration style, but they have improved it in a new way and that's all they have in common with Metroid, because they have their own and unique game play mechanics, that no other game has. They don't borrow/stealing game play mechanics from other games. I don't like the way the magic mechanics have gone at the latest IGA's games, they are almost the same in every game. I prefer the way Alucard was executing magic. The combination of the cross with the buttons, was something cool and i would like to see it in new games.
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I love Iga games. I just wish he would make Belmonts have more of a main lead and not some unlockable character with no story.
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IGA is about as hated as any other video game producer in charge of any major franchise. This kind of bashing goes on everywhere, be it about Mega Man, Final Fantasy, Resident Evil, Silent Hill, Metal Gear, Zelda or Call of Duty (well, maybe not Call of Duty. Its fans are after all 8-13 years old and would settle for anything with guns).
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The issues you mention are addressed since Wygol :P
For two chapters, yes, and still the game is only vaguely Castlevania-ish during them. And after those chapters, it goes back to generic fantasy DMC-inspired fluff.
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toru hagihara was promoted midway through sotn's development, and then iga was made the new director...after he became director, they basically restarted the game i guess.
Is that fact, or myth/legend created from fan speculation? There is no doubt that Iga had a great deal to do with the success of SotN, and it was an amazing game. But he tends to get ALL the credit for it, like the idea above that they restarted the game halfway through after he became director. Its hard to believe that they would scrap a game halfway through development, start over from scratch, but give the director credit to the guy who's version was scrapped halfway through.
If i start stealing aspects from other games and combine them into one game, it's the same as the sprite reusing that IGA is doing in most of his games. If you want to make the difference, then try and make something original and not stealing aspects and ideas from other games that other publicers have come up with.... :P
One of the key factors that made Symphony successful, and also all of its GBA/DS offspring that Iga is famous for, was that they "borrow" heavily from Super Metroid, ideas from another game series, that another publisher came up with...
Even the idea of breathing new life into a dying series by putting the Metroidvania format onto a handheld... Iga didn't innovate that either. The Circle of the Moon guys came up with that idea, and then Iga very successfully copied it when he took over the series.
I would say that most of Iga's success has come from successfully incorporating great ideas from other developers into his Castlevania games.
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Is that fact, or myth/legend created from fan speculation? There is no doubt that Iga had a great deal to do with the success of SotN, and it was an amazing game. But he tends to get ALL the credit for it, like the idea above that they restarted the game halfway through after he became director. Its hard to believe that they would scrap a game halfway through development, start over from scratch, but give the director credit to the guy who's version was scrapped halfway through.
Why?
This happen almost every day on gaming industry that it's not even funny.
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Is that fact, or myth/legend created from fan speculation? There is no doubt that Iga had a great deal to do with the success of SotN, and it was an amazing game. But he tends to get ALL the credit for it, like the idea above that they restarted the game halfway through after he became director. Its hard to believe that they would scrap a game halfway through development, start over from scratch, but give the director credit to the guy who's version was scrapped halfway through.
Toru Hagihara working on SotN until it got canned for the 32X (when it was still known as The Bloodletting) kinda makes sense, if what we call SotN is a result of its remains being moved to the Playstation and IGA's revisions to the game (turning it all Metroidy, making Alucard the main guy, etc). I recall hearing that The Bloodletting was meant to be another Dracula X game in the vein of Rondo, so Hagihara's working on it before being promoted sort of jives.
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One of the key factors that made Symphony successful, and also all of its GBA/DS offspring that Iga is famous for, was that they "borrow" heavily from Super Metroid, ideas from another game series, that another publisher came up with...
Keep in mind that it was still pretty different from Metroid. While it borrowed the exploration elements, keep in mind that IGA added in leveling up, vast amounts of equipment, usable RPGish items (that were kind of useless) and all sorts of stuff that you had to grind for. The exploration was ripped right out of Metroid but there was a lot of stuff to differentiate it, and of course decorates in the usually CV style. LoS on the other hand just shameless rip off of God of War and Shadow of the Colossus, and then characters and monsters are all clearly Tolkien-esque and hardly resemble traditional CV enemies.
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it was from interviews
iiii cant recall which ones and what year though. we'll just wait until someone like nagumo pops up with a library of iga interviews under her pillow.
http://ps3.nowgamer.com/features/950/the-making-of-symphony-of-the-night (http://ps3.nowgamer.com/features/950/the-making-of-symphony-of-the-night)
this wasn't one of the interviews i remember, but it pretty much states that sotn was the game where he had most involvement. though it leaves the whole director business uguu. i guess even if toru hagihara came up with the concept for sotn, iga still had most of his work in that game and not any of the other titles, at least.
Contrary to popular belief, IGA was not employed as primary director on the project – that honour fell to Toru Hagihara, who was also responsible for the excellent Dracula X: Rondo Of Blood on NEC’s PC Engine Super CD-ROM system (which incidentally is the direct prequel to Symphony Of The Night). However, IGA served as assistant director as well as participating in the writing of the scenario and general programming, so it could be argued that he had the most telling influence over proceedings.
When asked which tune was his favourite, IGA playfully admits that he’s slightly biased: “My favourite is Castle Dracula which starts to play when Alucard enters the castle for the very first time. I was impressed with the way the music starts to play once Alucard enters the dark castle, and then suddenly the castle gets bright and zombies start to appear. It might be because that particular part of the game was programmed by myself.”
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One of the key factors that made Symphony successful, and also all of its GBA/DS offspring that Iga is famous for, was that they "borrow" heavily from Super Metroid, ideas from another game series, that another publisher came up with...
Keep in mind that it was still pretty different from Metroid. While it borrowed the exploration elements, keep in mind that IGA added in leveling up, vast amounts of equipment, usable RPGish items (that were kind of useless) and all sorts of stuff that you had to grind for. The exploration was ripped right out of Metroid but there was a lot of stuff to differentiate it, and of course decorates in the usually CV style. LoS on the other hand just shameless rip off of God of War and Shadow of the Colossus, and then characters and monsters are all clearly Tolkien-esque and hardly resemble traditional CV enemies.
Even the idea of breathing new life into a dying series by putting the Metroidvania format onto a handheld... Iga didn't innovate that either. The Circle of the Moon guys came up with that idea, and then Iga very successfully copied it when he took over the series.
I would say that most of Iga's success has come from successfully incorporating great ideas from other developers into his Castlevania games.
Not exactly, IGA was the first one to use that formula with Symphony and KCEK was the one that copied it on the handhelds with Circle of The Moon. Also Circle of The Moon has a more interesting game play mechanism. The DSS. I would love to see an improved version of this mechanism on a new Castlevania game, with more accurate player controls, since Circle of the Moon controls where stiff.
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Keep in mind that it was still pretty different from Metroid. While it borrowed the exploration elements, keep in mind that IGA added in leveling up, vast amounts of equipment, usable RPGish items (that were kind of useless) and all sorts of stuff that you had to grind for. The exploration was ripped right out of Metroid but there was a lot of stuff to differentiate it, and of course decorates in the usually CV style.
True, but most of that other stuff was derivative from the SNES RPGs of the day, like Link to the Past and Secret of Mana. Grinding for levels and collecting dozens of weapons you'll almost never use was very reminiscent of Secret of Mana, actually.
What made SotN work so well is that it took the best elements from the 16-bit era-- action platforming of Castlevania, exploration of Super Metroid, RPG elements from SNES RPGs-- and combined them into one package. Not saying that was a bad thing, not at all... but nothing there was innovative, it was all derivative of something.
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True, but most of that other stuff was derivative from the SNES RPGs of the day, like Link to the Past and Secret of Mana. Grinding for levels and collecting dozens of weapons you'll almost never use was very reminiscent of Secret of Mana, actually.
What made SotN work so well is that it took the best elements from the 16-bit era-- action platforming of Castlevania, exploration of Super Metroid, RPG elements from SNES RPGs-- and combined them into one package. Not saying that was a bad thing, not at all... but nothing there was innovative, it was all derivative of something.
None of those RPGs you mentioned were side scrollers. SotN was pretty different than what came before it. It wasn't derivative, it expanded on older ideas rather than just steal them.
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I still say that SotN is more like a Playstation version of Ys3- Wanderers from Ys.
Roll 212
PC Engine Gaming: Ys III - Wanderers from Ys (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQH0vXSkbXg#)
Skip to the gameplay part. ;)
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I still say that SotN is more like a Playstation version of Ys3- Wanderers from Ys.
Roll 212
PC Engine Gaming: Ys III - Wanderers from Ys (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQH0vXSkbXg#)
Skip to the gameplay part. ;)
Ha! Nice to see I'm not the only one who felt that way.