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The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => Hardcore Gaming 101 => Topic started by: X on April 14, 2011, 12:07:26 PM

Title: Metroid Prime series in general 'love it, hate it'?
Post by: X on April 14, 2011, 12:07:26 PM
Since some of the forum members mentioned Metroid Prime in the LoS topic and it was suggested that it be moved for a more in-depth discussion, I'm doing just that. So don't hesitate to let it all out.  :)

Do I love the Prime series? Sure do, otherwise I wouldn't have bought the Wii Prime trilogy.

Does the game have it's short-comings? Yes IMO. But it's more story-based then game play. While the Wolfenstein/Doom aspect of the game doesn't really appeal to me, the Prime games are still interesting to play. Plus I have yet to unlock everything. But I did get really good at mashing up Metroid Prime's first and final forms. my complaint about the chronology of the story is simply that its borderline improbable. Improbable means it can be done but not without changing several things in the already established franchise that came before the Prime series. Prime's 1, 2 and 3 seem to take place between Metroid and Metroid 2: return of Samus. This is where I see one of the problems. According to several game manuals (Super Metroid to be specific), it states that after Samus completed her first mission on Zebes, a special corps was assigned to eliminated the Metroids on SR388, which ultimately failed. This assignment was then given to Samus to take care of. So now we gotta stick Prime's 1, 2 and 3 into that tiny span of time. Really tiny. aparently a lot of time goes by in the span of all three Prime games so it make little to no sense that they would all fit between the original game and it's gameboy sequel.
My other complaint is the data files. They are an interesting feature but due to some of the data files I've read, it makes me wonder what Samus was thinking about when she read them. One of the files states the Zebes was being rebuilt and another file states that the motherbrain was recuperating. While that's all fine for story purposes, it doesn't work for the game itself. If I were Samus and I saw those two files, I would've dropped what I was doing, go back to Zebes and complete my 'unfinished' mission. Or after finishing the trashing of the space pirates operations on Talos IV, I would then go back to Zebes and do just what I've mentioned above. Personally the people at Retrostudios should've taken this into account. It would've made a more solid story even if my concerns mentioned above are minimal at best.
Prime 1 was the best IMO. But I wasn't thrilled with the Metroid 3D designs...two small teeth in the front with two very large teeth in the back?? How's the larva supposed really hold on to you if it's teeth can't get a grip? I understand they also employ suction but I think the teeth could've been designed much better then what we were given. In Metroid: Other M the Metroid designs were waaaaay better and the teeth were properly designed too.
Prime 2 was iffy with me. Traversing from one world to another was tedious at times and without a walkthrough and you could get lost and disorientated real fast. I also had a serious problem with the beam ammo. Ammo? Seriously?? It's an energy weapon powered be Samus' suit! There's no need for ammo. The beams were also done kinda cheaply too. It appeared as though they didn't bother with redesigning them at all. They just slightly changed the graphics and gave them new colors. The Dark beams was clearly the Ice beam and the light beam was clearly the plasma beam. The annihilator beam was a serious mix of 'What???'. It was supposed to be a combination of light and dark, but came out as looking like something for generating a sonic boom. And in most cases it was useless. The light beam was the only one that I really loved using even though I had to use it sparingly  :P One the plus side I really loved the suit designs. Both the light, and dark suits were very interesting to look at and really showed off Samus' womanly features 8). I personally wasn't thrilled with the dark suit as it didn't cut out all the damage of Dark Aether as it should have. The light suit almost gave Samus the appearance of a God which was kind of epic in it's own way.But yeah it did get kind of boring traversing the same landscape over and over. The only real interesting place I liked was the fortress. It was like being in the TRON world or just digitized someplace where the Ing couldn't harm the last of the planet's inhabitants. Samus' original ship also made it into the game and I'm glad they got rid of her other one that just looked god-awful. The one piece of music that I loved out of all in Prime two was in the submerged depths of the Torvus bog. It was a composition from a tune in Super Metroid and I found it truly suited the atmosphere of the area just brilliantly.
Prime 3. I can't say too much of this game as I have yet to even finish it. Metroid: Other M fell into my lap during that time. I don't like how once more they changed Samus' hunter ship. it still should've been the on from Prime 2 as it doesn't get destroyed until Fusion.

Well that's enough outta me... *tired*

-X
Title: Re: Metroid Prime series in general 'love it, hate it'?
Post by: kadosho on April 14, 2011, 12:21:14 PM
Honestly I loved Prime, until Nintendo decided to make it on the Wii. I enjoy being able to play a game with a controller.
Atmosphere, music, and overall design is what made me decide to join the NGC community.

Although I did try Prime 3 & Other M (@ a GS kiosk. Prime 3 felt quite different in regards to the control scheme, more active (yet focused). Other M felt a bit different, in a sense (the display was too dark, couldn't see). But from the get-go I understood that OM was going in another direction (storytelling with dialog). After being so used to atmosphere, and very little interaction, it adds a unique level to the Metroid mythos.

I look forward to the next M entry, if we will ever see another one sometime soon.
Title: Re: Metroid Prime series in general 'love it, hate it'?
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on April 14, 2011, 12:54:27 PM
I love Prime 1, Prime 3, and Prime 1 with Wii Controls.
It's tough to go back to the controller once you get used to the Wii version controls, in my opinion.

Not a fan of Prime 2 or Prime Hunters much, though I own both (Prime 2 I own in GCN and Wii-Trilogy format).

The best parts about the Prime games are the atmosphere and the sheer amount of lore (scannables) all throughout.  The games feel alive and rich with stuff to look at.
Title: Re: Metroid Prime series in general 'love it, hate it'?
Post by: cecil-kain on April 15, 2011, 12:29:09 AM
Metrroid Prime was the most flawless transition from 2D to 3D --a stunning masterpiece in every possible way.  If you haven't played it --shame on you.
Title: Re: Metroid Prime series in general 'love it, hate it'?
Post by: VeteranVk on April 15, 2011, 06:39:53 AM
Prime 1 & 3 were my favorites as well, though in Prime 3, I still have trouble obtaining all the scans but I feel like the controls and gameplay were more than enough to save it. Prime 2 wasn't totally terrible. The dimensional shifting was tedious but Rare gets kudos for trying a new concept which in the beginning of the game I thought was pretty cool. I didn't quite get the limited beam ammo either, In my mind I'm just chalking it up to "different alien race, different alien technology". Also in some of the Luminoth lore scans, I believe it was stated as being EXPERIMENTAL weaponry which may also be why it was limited. What saved MP2 for me was the music and having the screw attack, as lame as that may sound. I have to say that even on gamecube, Prime 1 & 2 were the only games that made me rock back and forth from the screen when using the grapple beam to swingi to a platform or ledge.
Title: Re: Metroid Prime series in general 'love it, hate it'?
Post by: PFG9000 on April 17, 2011, 10:11:07 PM
As a big fan of Metroid and Super Metroid, I was a bit put off the first time I tried to play Prime and Echoes.  I actually liked Echoes more than Prime, because it had more of a feeling of cramped, twisting passageways, which I likened to the earlier Metroids.  But I really didn't like how neither game made you feel like you were lost underground with miles of rock over your head, which is how Metroid, Metroid 2, and (to a lesser degree due to the automap) Super Metroid. 

One of my friends made me give Metroid Prime an honest go, and I played up to the Thardus fight and still didn't like it.  I hated the controls and I just thought it was too far from the original Metroid feeling.  But a year or two later I started to get a craving to play Prime again.  I picked up a Gamecube and a copy of Prime and I played through it the proper way: on my own, at my own pace, hints off, free to explore as I chose.  And I loved it.  I played through Echoes after Prime, and while I didn't like it nearly as much, I still had a good time.

I picked up Hunters the day it came out and I really enjoyed that.  It wasn't as good as the console versions, but I was surprised how much depth was put into the single player campaign since it was clearly designed around multiplayer.  I played through Hunters again recently and appreciated it even more.

I was disappointed with Corruption.  I think the Wii controls were more responsive than most other Wii games, but I still thought they were gimmicky.  Even now that I have the controls down to second nature, I still have times when my cursor gets lost off-screen or I move too quickly for the motion to register.  As far as the game itself, I thought it was okay, but it's just way too far away from what makes Metroid good.  There should not be any NPCs in Metroid unless they make only a brief appearance, like the Etecoons or whatever those critters in Super Metroid were.  The majority of the game needs to be one giant level...that's Metroid's trademark, and Corruption did away with it (to be fair, Hunters did too).  As I mentioned in the LoS topic, I was bothered by things like Bryyo bringing in a few Ice rooms and indicating that half the planet was Ice, but not letting you explore anything worth mentioning in that Ice world.

A big problem I see Metroid heading for is that it's becoming too wrapped up in its own story.  The story killed Other M.  Because story is apparently so important now, we have to have a reason that Samus loses her abilities at the start of each game, or we have to come up with all new abilities with each installment while keeping all the old ones.  I wish the series was more like Zelda, where there is no official over-arching storyline and each game is its own entity.  That really frees up the developer for more innovation within each individual game.
Title: Re: Metroid Prime series in general 'love it, hate it'?
Post by: Profbeanburrito on April 17, 2011, 10:24:33 PM
I have a tendency to get a system fir a specific game and then find other great games fir the system. PSP- Dracula X Chronicles, DS - Dawn of Sorrow, PS3 - MGS4.
Metroid Prime was the whole reason I wanted a Gamecube as badly as I did, and it was definitely worth it. I love all the Metroid games but I think Prime is the one I've played the most. It did such a fantastic job of making you feel like you're truly alone, especially playing it at night in the dark. I enjoyed prime 2 and 3, as well but the first is still my favorite. It feels simple, with no gimmick like the light and dark Aether, or the motion controls, yet somehow so deep and just perfect. While I did love Other M I would love to get the feeling Prime gave me.
whether in first person or not, I can't wait to see what's next for Metroiid and I'm hoping we see something absolutely amazing on the next gen Nintendo
Title: Re: Metroid Prime series in general 'love it, hate it'?
Post by: knightmere on April 18, 2011, 08:36:43 AM
Prime 1 & 3 were my favorites as well, though in Prime 3, I still have trouble obtaining all the scans but I feel like the controls and gameplay were more than enough to save it. Prime 2 wasn't totally terrible. The dimensional shifting was tedious but Rare gets kudos for trying a new concept which in the beginning of the game I thought was pretty cool. I didn't quite get the limited beam ammo either, In my mind I'm just chalking it up to "different alien race, different alien technology". Also in some of the Luminoth lore scans, I believe it was stated as being EXPERIMENTAL weaponry which may also be why it was limited. What saved MP2 for me was the music and having the screw attack, as lame as that may sound. I have to say that even on gamecube, Prime 1 & 2 were the only games that made me rock back and forth from the screen when using the grapple beam to swingi to a platform or ledge.

Rare didn't develop the Prime Series, Retro did.
Title: Re: Metroid Prime series in general 'love it, hate it'?
Post by: K.G. Morder on April 19, 2011, 09:20:09 PM
Since when does Samus get new abilities each game..? Only new "abilities" she ever gets are the beam weapons, which were different for each prime game, but that was something that happened in the originals as well. She upgraded her beam cannon. All her suit abilities though, are all from 1-Super. It was actually kind of disappointing that the screw attack didnt come about until Prime 3. (though apparently it was planned for prime 1, but like many things, such as Meta-Kraid, never included)
Title: Re: Metroid Prime series in general 'love it, hate it'?
Post by: PFG9000 on April 20, 2011, 09:31:04 AM
Since when does Samus get new abilities each game..? Only new "abilities" she ever gets are the beam weapons, which were different for each prime game, but that was something that happened in the originals as well. She upgraded her beam cannon. All her suit abilities though, are all from 1-Super. It was actually kind of disappointing that the screw attack didnt come about until Prime 3. (though apparently it was planned for prime 1, but like many things, such as Meta-Kraid, never included)
If you're replying to my post, I was saying that in future installments, she'll need to either get new abilities, or lose the original ones and gain them back over the course of the game.  I was talking about the Metroid series overall though, and in the older games, she did get some new abilities in each installment.

And not to nitpick, but the screw attack was in Echoes and Corruption.
Title: Re: Metroid Prime series in general 'love it, hate it'?
Post by: K.G. Morder on April 20, 2011, 10:10:11 AM
Was it in echoes? dont think iv'e gotten that far... im stuck at the fortress. I think i may have forgotten the objective. Game doesnt remind you nearly as often as it should. (and theres no way to see it otherwise, besides the target area)
Title: Re: Metroid Prime series in general 'love it, hate it'?
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on April 20, 2011, 10:32:54 AM
It's right at the end of the dark section of Sanctuary Fortress, I believe.  You need to use it to cross giant pits.
It's awesome in Metroid Prime 3: Corruption.
Title: Re: Metroid Prime series in general 'love it, hate it'?
Post by: K.G. Morder on April 21, 2011, 07:57:48 AM
Its even better in Other M, where you can infinite screw attack.
Title: Re: Metroid Prime series in general 'love it, hate it'?
Post by: knightmere on April 22, 2011, 03:16:37 PM
Oh god please don't bring up Other M.

That game is an embarassment to the franchise.
Title: Re: Metroid Prime series in general 'love it, hate it'?
Post by: darkjak951 on April 24, 2011, 03:25:19 PM
Oh god please don't bring up Other M.

That game is an embarassment to the franchise.
Errr...well I moderately enjoyed it. I enjoyed PLAYING it, not so much listening to the poor excuse of a story. I enjoyed playing a 2D styled metroid in a 3D styled environment and the combat was fun and pretty flashy at times. The story was garbage and I just acted like it didn't exist, there were a few parts I enjoyed but most of it was pretty terrible and so was the flat voice acting.

Anyway as for Prime, I enjoyed the first one the most. Two felt derivative with the whole "light/dark" aspect and 3 was alright but felt too linear and short for my tastes.
Title: Re: Metroid Prime series in general 'love it, hate it'?
Post by: Richter on April 24, 2011, 03:56:51 PM
Metroid Prime was probably one of the top 5 games of that era. Great gameplay, atmosphere, so much detail. Perfect transition from Super Metroid to 3D, which was great since they carried on strong in 2D on the GBA at the same time. Couldnt get into Echoes AT ALL. Just didnt feel the same. Because of this I never got to part 3. Would have picked up the remastered Wii set if it wasnt so overpriced now.
Title: Re: Metroid Prime series in general 'love it, hate it'?
Post by: X on April 24, 2011, 07:37:15 PM
Would have picked up the remastered Wii set if it wasnt so overpriced now.

I think the reason why it's so overpriced is that they stopped making them. At least that's what I heard. Expensive or otherwise you might seriously want to track a copy down and get it before your chances run out.

-X
Title: Re: Metroid Prime series in general 'love it, hate it'?
Post by: ShinAkumaXX on April 24, 2011, 08:33:01 PM
I got the Trilogy for Wii at K-Mart a few months back for $50. I never shop at K-Mart and found it by surprise. I actually sold it on eBay for $75... as I already had a copy. Here's an auction for one, price is pretty low right now. http://cgi.ebay.com/Metroid-Prime-Trilogy-Wii-2009-/220772932432?pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item3367179b50 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Metroid-Prime-Trilogy-Wii-2009-/220772932432?pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item3367179b50)
Title: Re: Metroid Prime series in general 'love it, hate it'?
Post by: K.G. Morder on April 25, 2011, 06:33:39 AM
Oh god please don't bring up Other M.

That game is an embarassment to the franchise.
other M was good, it was the presentation of the story and poor delivery by the Actress playing Samus that make it sound bad.

Everything presented makes sense. (I mean Samus related. The bottle ship and MB I have no comment on. that was handled not too well.)

Samus and Adam was handled EXACTLY as it was in Fusion. she thinks about him half the time, I remember Adam this and Adam that.

The authorization was really just a bad excuse for an upgrade system, rather than resorting to prime's system of "LOL PEBBLE HITS YOUR HEAD, YOU LOSE EVERYTHING"

On paper and in theory, it sounds reasonable. She is aiding a Federation mission, thus she is following the rules set by the Federation commander in charge. But in execution, certain things make little sense. Specifically, while weapons make sense, suit upgrades do not. I dont understand why she had them off to begin with, but whatever the reason, SHE had them off. Adam didnt make her turn them off.

Ridly, dont start on that. Samus is KNOWN to have PTSD. Ridley's rebirth after Samus destroyed him, and the planet his body was on, and yet he came back, AGAIN, metaphorically and literally, out from the fires of Hell, it was the straw that broke the camel's back. It hit her like a brick:
 she cant put him down.
he always comes back.
it will never end.
her Parent's murderer will never stop haunting her.

She had a PTSD attack. NEVER has Ridley's entrance and buildup been as dramatic.

Read more Metroid manga.
Ridley's appearance literally has her eyes rolling into her head, screaming, literally begging for death.
Title: Re: Metroid Prime series in general 'love it, hate it'?
Post by: X on April 25, 2011, 11:14:37 AM
DUDE!! You took my thoughts right outta my head  :o Are you sure you're not Mentok; the mindtaker? And yeah, I loved that Ridly battle. It was far more epic with choice in music re-composition too.

-X
Title: Re: Metroid Prime series in general 'love it, hate it'?
Post by: PFG9000 on April 25, 2011, 11:40:06 AM
The authorization was really just a bad excuse for an upgrade system, rather than resorting to prime's system of "LOL PEBBLE HITS YOUR HEAD, YOU LOSE EVERYTHING"
I absolutely disagree.  Which is more believable?  Why the hell would Samus trek through a hot room that saps away at her health when she has the ability to turn her suit on?  What benefit could it possibly be to her or to anybody else to disable her suit?  It was a horrible game mechanic in Other M, one of the many stupid aspects of the game.

In Metroid Prime's scenario, Samus got smacked against a wall by an explosion, IIRC (and piled on by monsters in Echoes).  That could very believably damage her suit to the extent that it doesn't work as well as it used to.  Yes, it's convenient, but it's also believable.  The Other M thing just takes you right out of the game.
Title: Re: Metroid Prime series in general 'love it, hate it'?
Post by: Puwexil on April 25, 2011, 11:40:42 AM
Other M is pretty terrible. I wrote about it a bit when it came out, which I'll leave behind spoiler tags in order to avoid fattening up the thread with something relatively irrelevant.

(click to show/hide)

As for the Primes, I can say that I love the first, respect Echoes mostly for its art design, and abhor Corruption and Hunters as the point-missing debacles that they are.
Title: Re: Metroid Prime series in general 'love it, hate it'?
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on April 25, 2011, 12:18:28 PM
Well, I can chalk up the Gravity Use Non-Usage to one thing:
It is, perhaps, conceivable, that having a gravity-altering device aboard the ship that has human lives, can cause harm upon those lives.

In the real world, such a device would need a huge containment field, to the point in which it would not be a good idea to have it on.  Imagine a portable black hole.  It would be shooting gamma rays and all sorts of radiation to a surrounding environment, thus killing any humans not wearing the proper shielding attire.  I would imagine that the device that makes the Gravity Suit work the way it does, it set up to do just that.  At first, the mission is to find and safely retrieve all humans within the ship.

(click to show/hide)

Of course, I cannot at all explain the Varia Suit, since I'm not sure how the damn thing works.  I would imagine that if a suit is to have the shielding to drive away heat radiation from incredibly powerful heat sources such as magma, it would have to have a very very powerful (yet thin) force field around the suit.  For this to work, you would need a lot of energy and a lot of it would cause suit radiation, which could, potentially, endanger the lives of humans around it.  In Super Metroid, you notice that in the intro where Samus is shaking the hands of the scientist with the baby metroid on hand, she's already reverted to the default Power Suit (no large pauldrons, standard signature "backwards L" in the front, etc.).

So although I don't particularly like it, I can somewhat conceive why she's not allowed to use those devices on a Rescue Mission on a ship.
Title: Re: Metroid Prime series in general 'love it, hate it'?
Post by: Puwexil on April 25, 2011, 12:55:38 PM
Trying to apply real-world science/logic to space-age fantasy tech rings kind of false to me. If the game doesn't make it an issue or a factor, you probably shouldn't either. All that matters is the convoluted rationale they tried to enforce tripped over its own rules and undermined everything they tried to build towards.
Title: Re: Metroid Prime series in general 'love it, hate it'?
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on April 25, 2011, 02:04:22 PM
Thing is, it IS an issue because people are bitching about 'why can't I use this?' and 'it's stupid that I can't use that because it's not been permitted' and so I'm trying to think of something that, in that day and age, wouldn't have to be explained, did not deserve a line for exposition, and would still make sense.

It would totally break the mood if Adam was like "Your gravity suit would cause cancer, don't turn it on until we're sure there all survivors are accounted for."

But you're right, normally it doesn't make sense to throw real-world science/logic/physics to a scifi/tech/fantasy setting.
Title: Re: Metroid Prime series in general 'love it, hate it'?
Post by: X on April 25, 2011, 06:26:19 PM
Of course, I cannot at all explain the Varia Suit, since I'm not sure how the damn thing works.  I would imagine that if a suit is to have the shielding to drive away heat radiation from incredibly powerful heat sources such as magma, it would have to have a very very powerful (yet thin) force field around the suit.  For this to work, you would need a lot of energy and a lot of it would cause suit radiation, which could, potentially, endanger the lives of humans around it.  In Super Metroid, you notice that in the intro where Samus is shaking the hands of the scientist with the baby metroid on hand, she's already reverted to the default Power Suit (no large pauldrons, standard signature "backwards L" in the front, etc.).

Since the Varia suit is Chozo-built I don't think it would pose a threat to anyone beyond the user herself. Chozo tech is never explained nor has it been fully detailed for us to see. The Varia option might be so advanced that it doesn't need to have any kind of energy shielding to block or deflect radiation and frigid temperatures. I could simply be a type of unknown material or polemic substance built onto the suit itself that can do the job just as well if not better then any energy field. This is my theory at best.

-X
Title: Re: Metroid Prime series in general 'love it, hate it'?
Post by: rubenjohnson on May 11, 2011, 07:19:44 AM
If you love Metroid Prime as much as I do, share it in the ... Hate HATE HATE. This game, and this series in general is so over rate
Title: Re: Metroid Prime series in general 'love it, hate it'?
Post by: Munchy on May 11, 2011, 01:37:39 PM
Metroid Prime 1 was pretty sweet. Can't say I've played much of 2 and 3, but they took the generic FPS look a little too far. 1 actually felt much more like genuine Metroid to me.