Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: darkwzrd4 on May 22, 2011, 12:36:43 AM
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We all know that the old cannon is kind of messed up and there are a few plot holes. Also, with LoS, the series is being rebooted. However, I think that the old cannon should be finished so that fans of it can have some closure. It can be done with two (maybe three) games that would fill in some of the gaps and unanswered questions we have been asking for a few years.
One game can be the SotN sequel we've all been waiting for that would answer the question of why the Belmonts can't use the whip until 1999, why they game it to the Morris family, and why the Lacarde family is the key to unlocking the whips full power for non-Belmonts.
Another game can be the 1999 game in which Dracula is defeated for once and for all.
There could also be a third game that takes place between LoI and CV3 which tells the story of Dracula's rise to power. However, such a game is not as critical as the other two.
These games if ever made should fill in the existing gaps in the series and give the series a sense of closure.
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I agree completely about all three concepts. 1999 is definitely a must.
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DARK PRIEST
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Yes. And then it should start over, with the best stuff kept from the old timeline. Castlevania is the kind of series that wouldn't be harmed by a reboot.
And no, I don't count LoS as a reboot.
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The old Castlevania cannon?
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg841.imageshack.us%2Fimg841%2F9053%2F2592020old20cannon.jpg&hash=7854639c694be16160c29540eb45da1700aa8575)
Hmmm, yeah... Probably. Its really broken down and its rusty on the inside... Im certain even Dracula couldnt make this thing work again. The wood is all splintered and stuff... Yeah we should probably dump it-
Oh... Oh...... Ohhhhhhh.... The Castlevania canon...!
ehhh, well there really isnt any other choice, unless you dont mind bullshitting past Aria and Dawn of sorrow to bring Dracula back, or fight OTHER evils, (like that novel)
Otherwise, 1999 war, Symphony sequel, and maybe fill in some of the time between Lament and Dracula's curse. all because they werent fighting Dracula doesnt mean the Belmonts werent fighting other threats. They got kicked out of Romania for a reason after all. (fear of their "supernatural powers") meaning that they must have fought SOMETHING off that spooked townsfolk.
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IGA should do the last CV work "1999 Game" of him.
:)
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Yes, it needs closure. We need that 1999 game Konami, finish the original storyline of the Belmonts vs Dracula once and for all.
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We all know that the old cannon is kind of messed up and there are a few plot holes. Also, with LoS, the series is being rebooted. However, I think that the old cannon should be finished so that fans of it can have some closure. It can be done with two (maybe three) games that would fill in some of the gaps and unanswered questions we have been asking for a few years.
One game can be the SotN sequel we've all been waiting for that would answer the question of why the Belmonts can't use the whip until 1999, why they game it to the Morris family, and why the Lacarde family is the key to unlocking the whips full power for non-Belmonts.
Another game can be the 1999 game in which Dracula is defeated for once and for all.
There could also be a third game that takes place between LoI and CV3 which tells the story of Dracula's rise to power. However, such a game is not as critical as the other two.
These games if ever made should fill in the existing gaps in the series and give the series a sense of closure.
I believe we'll be pretty damn lucky if we ever see the 1999 game... And if we do get it, I'm really afraid it's gonna be a half-baked rebirth sort of game instead of the epic farewell that Castlevania deserves.
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Whoever voted no... what's wrong with you? :P Not knowing the many plotholes of the old cannon would be like dying without knowing Batman's ending or something like that.. unforgivable! (and highly depressing)
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The old canon MUST be ended.There are much more than 3 only empty spot in timeline.Beyond the 3 spot Darkwizard mentioned, there is all 19th century to be filled(yeah, we have only Ecclesia and CV64 LoD & CotM doesn't count),a third Sorrow game in order to complete Soma Cruz adventures and in my point of view, a new adventure for Juste.He deserve it.And you know why? Because it's the only Belmont that doesn't kick Dracula's butt :P
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I want the old timeline to be finished as well, closing with the 1999 battle.
But something in my gut tells me that Konami will either they wont do it at all, or put out more filler storylines piling on more plotholes to an already plothole filled canon.
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a third Sorrow game in order to complete Soma Cruz adventures
Really? ANOTHER Sorrow game? Only if they were to turn the novel into a game. (even IT seems to have a better story than Dawn) Otherwise, the Sorrow series actually needs one LESS game. Aria was a perfect ending. PERFECT. you get this kid who finds out this crap about Draculas castle being sealed after a great battle, and then that he actually is Dracula himself. He fights off the evil influence the castle has on him, and defies his destiny, breaking the cycle for good, destroying the castle permanently, spiritually, and Vampire killer's power fading away, and Alucard thanking Soma in his Mother's name.
Dawn was simply unnecessary. In fact, Julius says Vampire killer' power faded away, so he technically shouldnt be able to work the same in Dawn.
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Yeah, a few game may be needed before blasting the 1999 battle. Plot holes must be solved.
But what would they do after? Continue the LoS timeline, assuming it's Cox's job? Or make another reboot with new characters? :-\
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I'd like to see the story completed. But if it was I would probably stop buying new CVs and focus solely on the games to date, minus Lords of Shadow. Keeping the old storyline open is just one more way for Konami to keep stringing us old fans along...
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Hahah, I love your sense of humor!
The old Castlevania cannon?
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Hmmm, yeah... Probably. Its really broken down and its rusty on the inside... Im certain even Dracula couldnt make this thing work again. The wood is all splintered and stuff... Yeah we should probably dump it-
Oh... Oh...... Ohhhhhhh.... The Castlevania canon...!
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What is this nonsense I keep hearing about plotholes?
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I think they should just retcon that b.s. about the Belmonts not being able to wield the Vampire Killer and just make a game with a Belmont that takes place 100 years after Symphony.
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″Old″ cannon is everything. It cannot be finished. It should continue and go on forever. I find your poll illogical. Were YOU violated by a dark priest?
Lords is not a CV game....it just wants to be that.
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i would be happy if they continued to add games to the main timeline forever. i know they might find that difficult to do though, so if it ever came to winding down this timeline, i would want them to make those last critical games before doing so. but yeah, things we still need:
* Alucardvania, which could possibly explain why Belmonts can't use the whip and how the origin of the Alucard Spear and watch of the Morrises and Lecardes.
* Quincy Morris game
* Battle of 1999 game
* A Galamoth game
Other games we might not need, but I'd like anyways:
* A redo of Dracula's Curse in some format so that international audiences get the true story of what happened, and not a bunch of talk about spirit companions and pirates etc.
* An Olrox game
* A reimagined Sonia game that would fit nicely into the timeline
And there's still so much that they could do that can't really be predicted. I was certainly not expecting a game taking place in World War II, for example.
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Yeah they should make new games to fill in the gaps in the old timeline. And if they ever need to make a new timeline, they could make one where Galamoth (or someone else) became the new Dark Lord by killing Dracula , pretty much what could have happened in Judgement if Galamoth succeded in defeating Dracula . I know that game isn't really cannon(or is it canon?) but it would make more sense to make two timelines that are somewhat connected, like an parallel universe, and not just start the series all over and stick the name Castlevania on it( what LoS did).
Also didn't Alucard say that there would always be a dark lord, whether it's Soma or someone else?So the timeline isn't finished. I'd like to have a game that takes place after Dos, which narrates the rise to power of the new dark lord.That way the old timeline will continue , maybe not forever but for a long period of time. They can always make games for the new timeline, for those who really like Los.
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They should abandon this "new timeline" ... >.>
nah, not really, but they need to abandon QTEs.
That said, the stories in the old aren't spectacular but they make for great stories if reworked... but then again, that can always go both ways. Eitehr way, I want it to be finished... don't let it die off in obscurity, because I won't let it!
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Really? ANOTHER Sorrow game? Only if they were to turn the novel into a game.
I thought the same thing.
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I think that the LoS canon should end... and soon. I'm not totally opposed to a reboot, but... try again.
As for the original canon, I don't think it should officially close. It already kind of has an ending with Soma Cruz. It should have really ended with Aria of Sorrow. There is still room for more games and some things in the story that can be addressed, so I think it should keep on going for the foreseeable future.
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There's nothing wrong with that cannon!
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I don't think that it must end, it has much possibilities and i really want to see the 1999 game!!! Maybe IGA is not more able to come with some creative ideas, but there must be someone who could.......so maybe he should pass the series to him.
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I would be thankful if they make something (with the original characters) that has some semblance of a plot. No more Harmony of Despair, please.
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i think Iga has a considerable backlog of ideas. its just a matter of getting his storyline ideas mixed in with his gameplay idea harmoneously (his higher priority), and then having the time, budget, market environment, and Konami's support to produce them.
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Konami can keep the new timeline big-budget 3D on consoles, while the classic timeline can remain 2D on handhelds.
Why is this such a problem for anybody?
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Konami can keep the new timeline big-budget 3D on consoles, while the classic timeline can remain 2D on handhelds.
Exactly. I see no reason for the 2D series to end anytime soon, at least for the next 5-10 years. The 2D platforms and the big budget HD games can co-exist.
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Konami can keep the new timeline big-budget 3D on consoles, while the classic timeline can remain 2D on handhelds.
Why is this such a problem for anybody?
It might have to do with the fact that playing new 2D CV games on a console with a controller and seeing it on a large TV harks back to the good 'ol days of nostalgia and classic gaming in general. I miss those days :'(
I couldn't really vote since I want the old canon series to have closure yet I want new games/stories in that canon to continue onwards. And there's no way in heaven, hell or high water I'm going to let a Dark Priest violate my mind :P
-X
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Konami can keep the new timeline big-budget 3D on consoles, while the classic timeline can remain 2D on handhelds.
Why is this such a problem for anybody?
It might have to do with the fact that playing new 2D CV games on a console with a controller and seeing it on a large TV harks back to the good 'ol days of nostalgia and classic gaming in general. I miss those days :'(
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I agree with that answer and i also miss those days........ :'(
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I agree that they should do the 1999 game....properly....on the home consoles. And it should be done using all new resources, no more recycled sprites. Or just do it 2.5D style, but make sure the 3D models conform to the aesthetic we've come to love from 2D Vanias. However, I hold very little faith in Iga or Konami that they can or would actually produce such a game...and do it RIGHT.
After this game is done, the timeline should be done. It's full of unnecessary characters and half baked side plots as it is. Let it go out with a bang. Either start a new timeline for the 2D titles, or move them into a brand new era where they aren't held back by a limited time frame. My other thread expresses my thoughts on where the 3D titles should go from here...with each future CV director bringing his/her own reboot/reimagining to the table.
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After this game is done, the timeline should be done. It's full of unnecessary characters and half baked side plots as it is.
This line of thinking, ladies and gentlemen, is exactly what the series doesn't need and is just another "let's take the easy way out, reboot!" excuse that Hollywood has a boner for and now, slowly, the gaming industry. Why should the timeline be done after 1999? As already said they can fit dozens more games without stepping on another one's toes. Or do you also think only 1 game is needed to fill that 300 year gap in the timeline? How about a game chronicling Soleiyu's adventures as an adult? Or a sequel to Lament that has Leon encountering the next vampire lord? Believe it or not, a lot of fans (not just here) still have love for these characters/stories and if I still see potential in the chronology, a hell of a lot more do as well. Bottom line is, both timelines can coexist, and I think Konami has intentions on doing that (why else would they experiment with 2D "HD" visuals using classic characters, or release Adventure ReBirth, if they are trashing everything about the old timeline & focusing solely on LoS?)
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This line of thinking, ladies and gentlemen, is exactly what the series doesn't need and is just another "let's take the easy way out, reboot!" excuse that Hollywood has a boner for and now, slowly, the gaming industry. Why should the timeline be done after 1999? As already said they can fit dozens more games without stepping on another one's toes. Or do you also think only 1 game is needed to fill that 300 year gap in the timeline? How about a game chronicling Soleiyu's adventures as an adult? Or a sequel to Lament that has Leon encountering the next vampire lord? Believe it or not, a lot of fans (not just here) still have love for these characters/stories and if I still see potential in the chronology, a hell of a lot more do as well. Bottom line is, both timelines can coexist, and I think Konami has intentions on doing that (why else would they experiment with 2D "HD" visuals using classic characters, or release Adventure ReBirth, if they are trashing everything about the old timeline & focusing solely on LoS?)
I agree 100% with Crisis!!! Video games, they don't need haters. If you don't like something, then by all means, don't play it, because you don't like it, it doesn't mean that it must stopped!!! There are people who will like it and play the hell out of it. I'm not a big fan of LoS, but there are many others who are and if Konami is going to make 1, 2 or 3 more LoS, it doesn't matter to me, because if i don't feel like playing it, then i want, but those who are fans of LoS they will.
So, like Crisis said, both timelines can coexist!!! ;)
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Well, by OoE IGA was already taking focus off the timeline. CotM and CV64 were put back in as gaidens (he said in an interview he has a fond spot for CotM) and OoE was very ambiguous as to what happened post SotN. Frankly, I think any and all of the games can coexist. In the end, the timeline really doesn't matter.
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This line of thinking, ladies and gentlemen, is exactly what the series doesn't need and is just another "let's take the easy way out, reboot!" excuse that Hollywood has a boner for and now, slowly, the gaming industry.
You mean as opposed to the "let's make 101 sequels and milk the daylights out of every franchise that makes respectable bank" approach? That sounds pretty "Hollywood" to me as well...maybe even moreso.
Why should the timeline be done after 1999? As already said they can fit dozens more games without stepping on another one's toes. Or do you also think only 1 game is needed to fill that 300 year gap in the timeline? How about a game chronicling Soleiyu's adventures as an adult? Or a sequel to Lament that has Leon encountering the next vampire lord? Believe it or not, a lot of fans (not just here) still have love for these characters/stories and if I still see potential in the chronology, a hell of a lot more do as well.
The problem is not with the idea you propose, but rather with Konami's current handling of that timeline. I'd be all for a telling of tales that we as Castlevania fans WANT to see (Sonia, Soleiyu, Christopher, Trevor, the Belnades, etc), but Konami insists on dragging in more fringe characters with fringe storylines that often just barely thread themselves into the intrigue of the CV history. Saying "we want more of the original timeline" to Konami is just going to be-gat us another Dawn sequel, or some tale about a guy from a long line of Jacksons and some sorted nonsense about how the VK was reborn through the roots of a sacred flower and handed down to his ancestors by the mightly Pain Elemental to keep the peace until a long lost band of Belmont ninjas could make nice enough with God to be granted the right to use it again. :rollseyes: :rollseyes: :rollseyes:
In short, Konami isn't answering the really interesting questions of the original continuity, they just keep posing more (most of them we don't care enough to inquire too deeply about). They're flooding this timeline with new characters when, as you said, there are already a bunch of interesting, well established ones they could further develop. If they just can't get this whole concept, then they should just start over. Hell, they don't need to trash everything that's been built...they could just start at the beginning and redo it all bigger and better, leaving out all the convoluted stuff. Most of us on these boards really are doing nothing but pining for those older games from back in the day that made us fall in love with this series in the first place...I doubt that revisiting these favorites in a whole new light would be against our sensibilities
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Bottom line is, both timelines can coexist, and I think Konami has intentions on doing that (why else would they experiment with 2D "HD" visuals using classic characters, or release Adventure ReBirth, if they are trashing everything about the old timeline & focusing solely on LoS?)
I don't think I ever said that the 2D titles needed to go away so that the LoS continuity could reign supreme. In fact, just the opposite. I'm a firm supporter in the idea of this franchise maintaining two separate courses as time moves forward.......a 2D one and a 3D one. I want the 2D series to continue, but I want them to stop making games that sidestep the core legend in order to tell inane sidestories about characters that have no previous basis in the canon. And as I said in the other thread: I don't believe that a stringent new timeline for the 3D titles should even be pursued. Those games should serve as a way to retell or reimagine the events of various classic CV games instead (and not necessarily in the form of flat-out remakes).
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At first, I was going to vote to end the old canon. But, after reading all the comments, I would like to the old (and true) canon must never end.
I think that the question in this poll is related to the existence of Lords of Shadow as a wannabe Castlevania game. And Cox words are the trigger to think in end the old canon: "Forget everything you know about Castlevania" (and then we have too many things referencing to old canon... :rollseyes:).
The old canon still have stories to be tell. As the first post said, the 1999 game, the post SoTN game, and a LoI - CV3. I see the main problem that the old canon have is the 100 years "rule" in Dracula´s revivals. It´s like make a game with only 100 years of interval between each one. But, as I said before, the old canon still has much to tell.
In the other hand, with the "reboot" effort, like some of you said, I don´t see the necessity of such a thing. Were Judgment was the main reason to make the reboot? With LoS I only see what the reality are: the decadency of japanese gaming, and the intentions of it to appeal to more western audience, an audience that enjoys needless reboots, movies music, crazy plot twists, famous Hollywood voices, etc. Will Castlevania are going to walk the same path as Bomberman (with Act Zero) or Devil May Cry (with DmC)? ???
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With LoS I only see what the reality are: the decadency of japanese gaming, and the intentions of it to appeal to more western audience, an audience that enjoys needless reboots, movies music, crazy plot twists, famous Hollywood voices, etc. Will Castlevania are going to walk the same path as Bomberman (with Act Zero) or Devil May Cry (with DmC)? ???
Ummm what? Sorry, but I couldn't make heads or tails of what you were trying to say here. That LoS (a game made BY a western studio BTW) is a shining example of how Japanese games these days suck because they make games to appeal to western audiences because all western audiences like things that suck?
???
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At first, I was going to vote to end the old canon. But, after reading all the comments, I would like to the old (and true) canon must never end.
I think that the question in this poll is related to the existence of Lords of Shadow as a wannabe Castlevania game. And Cox words are the trigger to think in end the old canon: "Forget everything you know about Castlevania" (and then we have too many things referencing to old canon... :rollseyes:).
The old canon still have stories to be tell. As the first post said, the 1999 game, the post SoTN game, and a LoI - CV3. I see the main problem that the old canon have is the 100 years "rule" in Dracula´s revivals. It´s like make a game with only 100 years of interval between each one. But, as I said before, the old canon still has much to tell.
In the other hand, with the "reboot" effort, like some of you said, I don´t see the necessity of such a thing. Were Judgment was the main reason to make the reboot? With LoS I only see what the reality are: the decadency of japanese gaming, and the intentions of it to appeal to more western audience, an audience that enjoys needless reboots, movies music, crazy plot twists, famous Hollywood voices, etc. Will Castlevania are going to walk the same path as Bomberman (with Act Zero) or Devil May Cry (with DmC)? ???
The question is given the state of the cannon, it seems full unless you continue the story after AoS (DoS doesn't count because it didn't contribute to the overall storyline). With that in mind, if AoS is the end point and LoI is the beginning, do you guys want the existing plotholes to be filled for a sense of closure. I'm not saying that the story has to end. In fact I'd love to see it continue after AoS with the rise of a new dark lord (not Soma) and the good guys fighting him (or her). I'd also like to see Soma find away to keep all the abilities he gains without turning evil. Plus, there's always the fate of the Belmont clan and what happens with the whip once Julius is too old to fight.
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It shouldn't be finished quite yet. A few more games should be in there, not including remakes. I'd be happy with 1999 and a symphony sequel/ explain the whip going from Belmont to Morris game. That would be enough for me, but I'll take anything else including a game between Lament and Dracula's Curse. Mostly though I want a remake of CV3.
As for Lords of Shadow I would be happy with a trilogy. Then we'll see where the series goes from there
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Ummm what? Sorry, but I couldn't make heads or tails of what you were trying to say here. That LoS (a game made BY a western studio BTW) is a shining example of how Japanese games these days suck because they make games to appeal to western audiences because all western audiences like things that suck?
Sorry. Maybe my comment was incomplete. I refer to how a Japanese franchise like Castlevania was handled by a non-japanese (like in the last 20+ years in creating) company. The preference of LoS project over the IGA one, maybe is a evidence in the lack of confidence in a japanese project (I ignore what happen to DmC, by the way).
In western apeal I refer to how in LoS Mercury Steam use an in-game gameplay like in an western game, like God of War (QTEs, chain-swinging hack n´ slash) or Prince of Persia (platforming). Ok, they use other japanese games in gameplay reference, like Shadow of the Colossus, I accepted. Maybe they took only a few and great things among that games I mentioned (SoTN do a similar thing, with Metroid). But, in the decadency (not suckness, as you mentioned) I ask, why give a japanese franchise (like Castlevania or Devil May Cry) to a non japanese company (like Mercury Steam or Ninja Theory, I believe that is the name) to make LoS or DmC, respectively.
I hope I was not so confusing this time :).
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The question is given the state of the cannon, it seems full unless you continue the story after AoS (DoS doesn't count because it didn't contribute to the overall storyline). With that in mind, if AoS is the end point and LoI is the beginning, do you guys want the existing plotholes to be filled for a sense of closure. I'm not saying that the story has to end. In fact I'd love to see it continue after AoS with the rise of a new dark lord (not Soma) and the good guys fighting him (or her). I'd also like to see Soma find away to keep all the abilities he gains without turning evil. Plus, there's always the fate of the Belmont clan and what happens with the whip once Julius is too old to fight.
Thanks for the clarification. Then, I prefer to fill that infamous plotholes, but without creating other ones (maybe like in PoR). But, in the other hand, It´s interesting to start another story (not canon) beggining with AoS (or DoS ending). To me (maybe to all not, I accept) a true reboot comes with Aria of Sorrow (preserving music, ambiance and other CV stuff), with a new "hero" becoming a Dark Lord... (Mmhh, so, this is not the first time that we are playing with Dracula? Because, Soma is Dracula, isn´t? Then, Gabriel Belmont will become Dracula, too... Interesting) :P.
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or some tale about a guy from a long line of Jacksons and some sorted nonsense about how the VK was reborn through the roots of a sacred flower and handed down to his ancestors by the mightly Pain Elemental to keep the peace until a long lost band of Belmont ninjas could make nice enough with God to be granted the right to use it again. :rollseyes: :rollseyes: :rollseyes:
I don't understand.
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I was making a sarcastic exaggeration.
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I think its pretty obvious that the old canon needs to be finished inorder to give longtime CV fans a form of "closure" so to speak.
I think that a CV game should be made that takes place 1 or 2 years after symphony which fully explains why Belmont's can not use the whip until the battle of 1999.
And obviously the 1999 Demon Castle Wars game should be made before the official canon is closed.