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The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: darkwzrd4 on June 08, 2011, 01:46:54 AM

Title: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: darkwzrd4 on June 08, 2011, 01:46:54 AM
So, now that Resurrection is available, we can finally fully see Gabriel's transformation in to Dracula.  With that in mind, which one do you think is the better Dracula?  Do like LoI's Mathias or LoS's Gabriel?  I personally like Gabriel better.  He doesn't manipulate people and we can actually see that he can really fight when he was human.  Ok, so he gets manipulated by those around him, but Mathias never did anything himself.  He simply used everyone to get what he wanted without actually getting his hands dirty and we don't even know how well he can fight as a human.  The fact is that if you took away their powers and weapons, Gabriel would most certainly kick Mathias's ass in hand to hand combat.  Mathias may have a degree of intelligence, but that wouldn't save him from Gabriel sheer will power and combat skills.
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: beingthehero on June 08, 2011, 01:56:37 AM
Mathias would probably manipulate Gabriel into doing his bidding without having to resort to hand-to-hand combat.
So, Mathias.
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: Gecko on June 08, 2011, 02:05:18 AM
Spoilers abound in this post, so if you don't want them, don't read.

I like Gabriel because he is more relatable, and proved himself as a truly powerful hero of times past.

As you play LoS, you journey with Gabriel and personally witness his descent into darkness. He's a real tragic hero. He is brought along on this journey in the hopes that he might be able to resurrect his wife as a result. He is coaxed along and made to defeat the Lords of Shadow, and eventually Satan himself. He is forced into becoming a lord of shadow himself in order to finish the fight. He gives up everything, puts in his all... and the mask does nothing more than present an illusion of the dead being alive. He is betrayed by everyone around him, and finds himself to be used as a puppet for others at his own expense.

As if that weren't enough, defeating the lords allowed the Forgotten One to be released, so even after losing it all, Gabriel is called yet again to fight, his only motivation being the protection of mankind. The good that is still in him allows him to do this. He then is forced to remove that good and become a vampire himself in order to finish the job. He goes into the Forgotten One's realm with only one mission in mind. Kill the Forgotten One. He gets the job done, and his demonic VamPowers awaken. Before this fight, he refers to himself as a "dragon", and the FO his prey. And of course, during his first encounter, he says that classic line, "Enough talk. HAVE AT YOU!"

With nothing left to return to, and no goodness left in him, he is cursed to wander the land for all eternity as a dark shell of his former self. He renames himself to Dracul, meaning "dragon", the title he gave himself before the final encounter with the FO.

I love it.
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: Ahasverus on June 08, 2011, 02:17:47 AM
Mathias would probably manipulate Gabriel into doing his bidding without having to resort to hand-to-hand combat.
So, Mathias.
Great way to pick your argument, by creating an imaginary silly fight between not related characters, yay.

I can't pick yet, i somehow liked Mathias, I mean, the man was crazy. We've just witnessed the very very beginning of Dracula in LoS I need to know more about him AS Dracula to make out my mind
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: beingthehero on June 08, 2011, 02:41:11 AM
Great way to pick your argument, by creating an imaginary silly fight between not related characters, yay.


The fact is that if you took away their powers and weapons, Gabriel would most certainly kick Mathias's ass in hand to hand combat.  Mathias may have a degree of intelligence, but that wouldn't save him from Gabriel sheer will power and combat skills.

Yes, damn you beingth-, I-I mean darkwzrd4!
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: crisis on June 08, 2011, 03:57:05 AM
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv119%2Fc0mbat%2Fshaft.png&hash=f64612d0ac426c2c416de9f43d9d2f022c61c2a1)
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: Munchy on June 08, 2011, 05:07:24 AM
I vote for Jason Isaacs because he should have been Dracula.

I liked Dracula better before all this origin crap though, so I guess Shaft has violated my mind and left only a copy of Castlevania III.
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: Chernabogue on June 08, 2011, 05:56:46 AM
Even if I haven't see Resurrection's end, I'll vote for Gabriel. His story is ten times better than Mathias' IMO.
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: Vampire Killer on June 08, 2011, 08:26:32 AM
Gabriel w/o a doubt. I'll just repost my reasons from another thread....


(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: Vlad_TepeZ on June 08, 2011, 08:56:40 AM
Nice... How about a spoiler tag?
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: Puwexil on June 08, 2011, 12:13:20 PM
Mathias, as I've gone on about already elsewhere. He's the manipulative chessmaster of his tale, not a reactionary, reluctant protagonist who's little more than a victim of circumstance. He is of his own making. The motivation is clearer, the character's deeds more sensible in relation to what his role in the story is, and the end result more satisfying to me than Gabriel's murky journey through endless machinations, somehow ending up as Dracula in the end because the plot dictates it. Nothing else sure does.
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: Mike Belmont on June 08, 2011, 10:03:23 PM
I liked Dracula better before all this origin crap though, so I guess Shaft has violated my mind and left only a copy of Castlevania III.

This^^^^

Personally, from the two origins, I prefer Mathias one. I don´t like the idea that you are controlling a "hero" that willl become with the time in the main villian. But, sincerely, when I end LoI, and see the Mathias/Dracula origin, I dont get convinced a lot. But, I prefer it among the LoS one. But I too prefer the unknow origin (in videogames) of the classic CVs.

So, I don´t having another option. I will pick up the third one :'(.
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: The Shanoa on June 08, 2011, 10:29:19 PM

I also prefer Dracula in older Castlevanias - Where Dracula was Dracula. Not Mathias or Gabriel or Soma or part of Chaos or whatever the fuck he is in newer Castlevanias. History states that Vlad the Impaler was actually a person, not a soul or a Chaos, and he didn't turn into dragons or snowmen (the CV1 boss looks likes a yeti with wings) or flying goat man. LOL
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: Odile Kuronuma on June 08, 2011, 10:36:00 PM
I like Dracula to be evil, not some kind of tragic hero.Sure it's nice to learn about his motives, how he became a vampire, but other than that we shouldn't relate to him or  pity him. It makes him look almost too fragile. Plus I don't like this whole romantic vampire figure. It started with the Coppola movie, and it's been used too much not just in movies, but in video games. I want Dracula to be a real villain, not some kind of emo who becomes a vampire just because he lost his wife.
Still I prefer the LoI version to the LoS one. The LoS version is so wrong. Dracula CANNOT be a Belmont.Plus he got manipulated all the way, and it's so obvious .So I guess it's the second option....or my mind got violated by a dark priest yay.
I also prefer Dracula in older Castlevanias - Where Dracula was Dracula. Not Mathias or Gabriel or Soma or part of Chaos or whatever the fuck he is in newer Castlevanias. History states that Vlad the Impaler was actually a person, not a soul or a Chaos, and he didn't turn into dragons or snowmen (the CV1 boss looks likes a yeti with wings) or flying goat man. LOL
I agree. The historical figure, Vlad III the Impaler, was badass. He got kidnapped by the Turks when he was a kid ,  that's where he picked up his habit of impaling. Mathias Cronqvist prolly existed in real life. His name is kinda similar to Matthias Corvinus, a Hungarian king who lived around the same time as Vlad Tepes . 
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: The Shanoa on June 08, 2011, 10:53:23 PM


Quote
some kind of emo who becomes a vampire just because he lost his wife
Totally agree.

The part of Dracula I like most was that he had nothing to do with the awful Twilight :D
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: Odile Kuronuma on June 08, 2011, 10:59:21 PM
Seriously I never understood why he blamed God for Elizabetha's death. He should be blaming Death itself for taking his wife.
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: The Shanoa on June 08, 2011, 11:08:27 PM

Satanists, or people influenced by or close to, Satan will blame God for most things that burden them. :)
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: X on June 08, 2011, 11:08:53 PM
I couldn't really vote on this due to my personal standing on Dracula. However I feel that Gabriel is just that much closer to the bad-@$$ lord of darkness then IGA's Mathias will ever be.

-X
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: Flame on June 09, 2011, 12:12:37 AM
I dunno. they both have their charm. I like both.
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: Vampire Killer on June 09, 2011, 01:57:17 AM
However I feel that Gabriel is just that much closer to the bad-@$$ lord of darkness then IGA's Mathias will ever be.

-X

Seriously, Gabula looks like he can clean house, I mean...

(click to show/hide)

Mathias, on the other hand, if he is the Dracula that has been THE Dracula in all Cv games sans LoS, has gotten his ass kicked probably more times than we know, usually about 5 seconds after waking up.


-Me


(seriously dude, why sign every post with "-X"? It's not like I'm incapable of looking to the left and reading your name)
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: Flame on June 09, 2011, 02:11:43 AM
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: Francis on June 09, 2011, 04:58:27 AM
Don't be sure but i think Mathias, he has the crimson stone after all.
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: X on June 09, 2011, 05:41:25 AM
(seriously dude, why sign every post with "-X"? It's not like I'm incapable of looking to the left and reading your name)

Old habits die hard Flame. I've been doing that since I signed onto this site back in the early 2000's. I'll try to forgo it starting now  :)
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: Flame on June 09, 2011, 09:50:32 AM
Oh my God. What is this. Why do people keep referring to me for shit I didn't say.

That said, when you look at it, Gabe's Dracula is almost identical to Mathias, but only much more believable. That being, Holy knights whos wives were killed and who doubted God and eventually abandoned him altogether.

Mathias = OH NO MY WIFE DIED WHILE I WAS AWAY ON THE CRUSADES ITS GODS FAULT IM GOING TO PLOT THE DEATH OF MY BEST FRIENDS WIFE SO THAT HE CAN KILL THE VAMPIRE WHO DID IT SO THAT I CAN TAKE HIS SOUL AND BECOME A VAMPIRE TO SPITE GOD AND DEFY MORTALITY.

Gabriel = Im a holy knight whos wife died and her spirit was trapped in limbo due to an evil spell. I went on a journey to kill the 3 beings that were holding the spell, gained their powers and in the end realized I was the one who killed my wife and that innocent girl while I was being possessed by the person I thought was my ally and after defeating Satan himself, the device I was told could bring her back was a sham, and I was still left alone in the end, a broken man who is only good for killing, doubting my faith in God. I was called out by that Vampire girl because my killing Carmilla weakened the seal she held on an even worse monster and It was my responsibility to fix it. I was forced to become a Vampire in order to survive within the realm it was contained in and eventually all remaining traces of my humanity were completely eradicated by my transformation leaving me a cruel and miserable shadow of my former self.
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: crisis on June 09, 2011, 10:51:13 AM
"by capitalizing 1 story over the other that'll make it sound more stupid!!"


:rollseyes:
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: Inccubus on June 09, 2011, 11:01:57 AM
I like the way they did it in Bram Stoker's Dracula. Vlad was pissed at god because Elizibetha wouldn't be allowed to go to heaven. In her distressed state she committed suicide when it was thought Dracula had been killed in battle by the Turks. He blamed god not only for her death, but for separating her from him even in death. So it made sense that he would carry a chip on his shoulder for both god and the human's that had tricked his beloved. They should have used that in LOI and left it at that.

And TFO in ressurection is pussy compared to the thing Leon fought. Can you imagine the LOI TFO in full form?
The new seems like a big Gabe clone with magic swords. The whole thing seemed kinda meh.
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: Flame on June 09, 2011, 11:59:52 AM
I thought he was pretty cool, and I was pleased how they made a nod to his bleeding. At the points when his wound suddenly just splurts (green) blood.
"by capitalizing 1 story over the other that'll make it sound more stupid!!"


:rollseyes:

my opinion bro. Still sounds just as silly without capslock.


@ Incubuys Didnt he also STAB the cross in the church and drink from it when it started bleeding?
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: Dominus on June 09, 2011, 12:33:07 PM
I would like to prefer Mathias. But Gabriel earn his status by kicking ass. Mathias hasnt won a fight yet
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: Flame on June 09, 2011, 12:35:34 PM
hes actually absent the WHOLE game, only to pop up at the end.
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: Puwexil on June 09, 2011, 12:41:33 PM
He's looking over Leon to make sure his plan goes over without a hitch, as you can see after the battle with Joachim. He doesn't need to be around in a greater capacity. Mathias has already played his hand, and it's a winning one. The only thing he has to do is come claim the rewards.
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: Flame on June 09, 2011, 01:03:21 PM
but we dont FEEL his pain at all when we havent seen him in the whole game. we only get told of what happened to him and with wife, but we havent gotten to know the character at all enough to actually care or acknowledge his motivations. he pops out of nowhere, explains this master plan he had, and why, and thats all.

Gabe's descent into darkness however, takes place over the course of the whole game. You play as him, you ARE him, and you follow him, as he starts off as a still-in-mourning widowed knight committed to his duty,and ending on the edge of a cliff in what might as well be hell, feeling alone, cheated, doubting his own self and motivations, and God. He sees himself as a dark being, a killer, and unsure of what to do with himself now that his mission has ended, leaving him nothing but bitterness. Then we see how he has no choice in his transformation, and goes through with it, having nothing to lose, the change eventually stripping him of whatever remaining traces of humanity and "light" were left in him, plunging him into complete darkness.

we (or at least I) feel him far more than Mathias.

Mathias is rather more of an anime style story for it. It makes sense in an Anime or game, but realistically, doesnt hold up as well.
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: Puwexil on June 09, 2011, 01:12:58 PM
Man if you think the character of Gabriel is depicted anywhere even close to realistically I just don't know what to tell you.

Also, it's a story fit for a video game because it is a video game. One of the (myriad of) problems with Lords' storytelling is that it thinks way, way too much of itself. Just, good lord, the narrations. They never stop spouting exposition and telling us or the characters how to feel rather than actually accomplishing it in the game. Mathias is introduced and set up in the prologue credits roll of his game, allowed some minutes of solid screen time, and that is it. Your mileage may vary how effective that is for a villain but at the very least he's not overplayed or desperately characterized.
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: Flame on June 09, 2011, 01:24:07 PM
It still stands though that Gabriel just gets much more exposition than Mathias. It would be nice if we saw some of Mathias before the whole issue.

i dont know. I just feel that mathias is just very empty feeling because we dont really KNOW the character. he just pops up a villain without us ever getting to know how he was prior. theres just no merit to it IMO.
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: thernz on June 09, 2011, 01:49:22 PM
Considering everything he did, it would be all right to assume that Matthias was always a bit of a psychotic jerk. And when we're dealing with genocidal demon lords like Dracula, insanity fits the bill.

I'm also assuming out of my ass, because he was an educated elite tactician who secretly knows alchemy. Which just seems like the most snob.
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: Inccubus on June 09, 2011, 02:10:39 PM
@Flame: Yup. He stabs the cross and it bleeds all over place. He drinks it saying something about the blood is the life and he will defy god by never dying.
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: paulstanley on June 09, 2011, 05:44:30 PM
I'm not sure why the concept of despair is so hard to grasp (since we want things to hold up realistically here). People in despair think up the quickest way to end their despair, instead of facing it. It's pretty believable that, in a magical/fantastic/whatever world like Castlevania's, someone would not deign to do what Mathias did when faced with despair. At least, if they had knowledge of such things, which Mathias did.

If it's not obvious enough already, I prefer Mathias. I can't feel anything for Gabriel, let alone sympathy.
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: Inccubus on June 09, 2011, 09:41:34 PM
I have to agree, the way they wrote his turn to evil reads like a b-movie plot twist.
I mean really. He goes through all this crap, and still has enough of a heroic heart to try to save the world one more time sacrificing his humanity for it, and then all of a sudden he's like 'fuck it all, I'm evil now'. That's pretty lame.
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: Flame on June 09, 2011, 09:46:03 PM
he didnt fight the Forgotten one to save the world. He didnt give a shit. He did it because Laura asked him to and he owed her his life. He wasnt concerned with the world's problems after what he went through. And having his humanity sapped out of him made him a complete monster.

Even in the original IGAvania, becoming a vampire changes you on a psychological level. Rinaldo's daughter slaughtered her family when she turned.

Gabriel lost what was remaining of his humanity.
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: Renonsgoods on June 09, 2011, 10:15:29 PM
We're still arguing over which character made for a better Dracula origin story...which, is a discussion for the other thread.  This should be about who makes a better Dracula.  I'll go with Gabe.  After witnessing his final clash with TFO, I'd want no part of that mofo. Going off of the two origin stories alone (without taking later episodes into account), I'd have to say that Gabe presents the better chance for giving way to a badass Dracula.  Mathias, on the other hand, better represents the Drac that likes to dress up nice and sip goblets of blood while waiting for the local hero to come up and kick his ass.

Personally though, I prefer Bram Stokers Drac better than both (NOT the Francis Ford Coppola one).  He was just an evil, demonic monster out for the kill.  He didn't sit around in a dusty old castle letting his minions do his bidding.
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: thernz on June 09, 2011, 10:36:56 PM
Well, he accepted Laura's request after she told him the consequences of a freed Forgotten One and how heavy his conscience would be. So he probably cared a tad at least. Without ever getting Laura's blood, he would probably just mope around. And in the end despite all the betrayal he faced, he still accepted that daunting task. Considering his personality didn't change much at the time of Reverie (beyond moping more, but he always does that anyway), the vampire blood is the only real catalyst to him becoming evil. The fact that he only turned evil because of vampire blood is just lame. It's like if Rinaldo's daughter was Dracula instead.

Who wants such a reluctant villain?  You need strong characters for both the protagonists and antagonists. Even if Gabriel Dracula turns out to be pure evil, his ambitions are fabricated. When the antagonist is only evil out of circumstance, like having to take Laura's blood to beat up the Forgotten One, than the actions of his inherent personality and social traits, it doesn't build much tension.

Matthias at least gets his resources from his social background, and hints of his manipulative nature from his career as a tactician. It's pretty basic but it's there. Gabriel's personality just doesn't fit and even seems schizophrenic at times. It just simply never builds to an ambitious person that could take the mantle of KAMEN RIDER KIVA, KING OF VAMPIRE.
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: Renonsgoods on June 09, 2011, 10:55:37 PM
That's just it though.  Mathias really doesn't change course all that much internally because of his wife's death.  He just tweaks who it is that he's setting his target sights on (in this case, God).  Gabriel's transformation into a dark lord is the result of an emotional/mental fracture with his former, good natured self.  Make no mistake, the kind of apathy/rage he feels after jumping through all of Zobek's flaming hoops (and STILL losing his wife) is exactly the kind of mindset that will turn a good man into a cold blooded recluse.  

While I'll agree that an ingenius Drac makes for a good storybook villain....a deranged one makes for a better monster.  Mathias' Drac is more likely to send out his minions to take care of his enemies..........Gabe is more likely to swoop down out of the night and rip the life from his victims himself.  And we have yet to see what follows the events of Resurrection. So while Gabe is still just an apathetic, brooding individual at this time (and a VERY powerful at that)....future events could easily push him into something more terrifying.  Time (and the forthcoming sequel) will tell.
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: darkwzrd4 on June 09, 2011, 11:21:53 PM
That's just it though.  Mathias really doesn't change course all that much internally because of his wife's death.  He just tweaks who it is that he's setting his target sights on (in this case, God).  Gabriel's transformation into a dark lord is the result of an emotional/mental fracture with his former, good natured self.  Make no mistake, the kind of apathy/rage he feels after jumping through all of Zobek's flaming hoops (and STILL losing his wife) is exactly the kind of mindset that will turn a good man into a cold blooded recluse. 

While I'll agree that an ingenius Drac makes for a good storybook villain....a deranged one makes for a better monster.  Mathias' Drac is more likely to send out his minions to take care of his enemies..........Gabe is more likely to swoop down out of the night and rip the life from his victims himself.  And we have yet to see what follows the events of Resurrection. So while Gabe is still just an apathetic, brooding individual at this time (and a VERY powerful at that)....future events could easily push him into something more terrifying.  Time (and the forthcoming sequel) will tell.
I agree with this to a point.  Mathias would merely have his minions do his dirty work while he just sits on his throne.  Plus, he fits like a pansy.  Teleport then fireball then teleport again.  It's the same thing over and over.  It's entirely predictable.
Gabriel on the other hand, would likely fight on the frontlines.  Plus, he wouldn't rely on the same old predictable routine.  He would actually fight hand to hand as well as use magic.
Gameplaywise, A battle with Gabriel would be a lot more labor intensive, epic, and enjoyable experience.  Definitely something to look forward to in the sequel assuming we don't play as him.
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: Flame on June 09, 2011, 11:27:35 PM
IGA Belmonts probably have a mock up throne room built in the family house where they train. XD

"Ok son, after he finishes his monologue, he will teleport over to that side of the room. That's when you throw the boomerang Cross at his head. Then make sure to duck his fireball, and wait for him to teleport to your side of the room, where you whip him until he fires another fireball. You duck that, and he teleports back to the other side..."
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: darkwzrd4 on June 09, 2011, 11:31:20 PM
IGA Belmonts probably have a mock up throne room built in the family house where they train. XD

"Ok son, after he finishes his monologue, he will teleport over to that side of the room. That's when you throw the boomerang Cross at his head. Then make sure to duck his fireball, and wait for him to teleport to your side of the room, where you whip him until he fires another fireball. You duck that, and he teleports back to the other side..."
lmao
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: Inccubus on June 09, 2011, 11:54:47 PM
I feel the need for a small edit:

"Ok son, after he finishes his monologue, he will teleport over to that side of the room. That's when you throw the [tire iron] at his head. Then make sure to duck his fireball, and wait for him to teleport to your side of the room, where you whip him until he fires another fireball. You duck that, and he teleports back to the other side..."

Back on topic:
So it basically sounds to me that if you combine Mathias & Gabriel you get pretty close to Bram Stoker's original.
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: Odile Kuronuma on June 10, 2011, 12:30:48 AM
Comparing Mathias to Gabriel is like comparing Griffith to Guts,at least that's how I see it.  If you're familiar with Berserk, there's a lot of similarities between those characters .
Mathias is described as a genius tactician in the LOI prologue, but I doubt he would have survived at that time if he wasn't a good fighter. Maybe not as good as Leon, but  he could prolly kick ass. Griffith is pretty much the same.Except he's more selfish and he's also a rapist ;D.

Gab has been manipulated all the way, just like Guts, and they're both pretty strong. Maybe he can't wield a giant sword like the Dragon Slayer, but he's a Belmont. Enough said.

My point is we can't really say who's better, since we don't know Mathias that much, and because  both versions are good in their own way and don't have that much in common, besides the fact that in theory it's the same person, and they both lost their wives.

Just something I've been thinking about while reading the comments. It's also 3am in here, so I'm not thinking right  ;D
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: whitedragon_nall on June 10, 2011, 12:35:15 AM
Comparing Mathias to Gabriel is like comparing Griffith to Guts,at least that's how I see it.

Then who gets to be Casca? Elisabetha or Marie? It's a good comparison though.
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: Odile Kuronuma on June 10, 2011, 12:38:25 AM
No one gets to be Caska i guess. Marie seems to be the closest, since Gab sacrificed everything for her, and he tried to bring her back, pretty much what Guts is doing by trying to fix Caska.

Also if Mathias could become a vampire and control Death thanks to the Crimson Stone,there's prolly a way for him to bring back Elizabetha as an undead.Wouldn't it make more sense if he tried  to be with his loved one, whether in life or death? Maybe he didn't love her that much  :P
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: crisis on June 10, 2011, 12:46:02 AM
Gabriel's a brawler, Mathias a tactician. Gabe doesn't really think things through, whereas Mathias thinks the ends justifies the means..

LoS-2 will really make or break how everyone sees Dracula in this timeline. I'm thinking we'll see more of Mathias' attitude in Gabriel-Drac anyway. It could go either way.
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: Odile Kuronuma on June 10, 2011, 12:47:45 AM
Gabriel's a brawler, Mathias a tactician. Gabe doesn't really think things through, whereas Mathias thinks the ends justifies the means..

LoS-2 will really make or break how everyone sees Dracula in this timeline. I'm thinking we'll see more of Mathias' attitude in Gabriel-Drac anyway. It could go either way.
Haha exactly like Guts and Griffith. So my comparison was good after all .
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: chainsawmidget on June 18, 2011, 03:11:12 PM
I prefer Vlad Dracula to be Dracula.  Why?  BECAUSE HE'S F@*^%ing DRACULA! 

With the others it's "Well, how did he become Dracula?"
"Well *complicated origin story here*..."

With the main guy, "How did he become Dracula?"
"BY being F$%^#ing DRACULA!  He's always been Dracula!  Even if he wasn't a vampire he was Dracula!" 

I can't understand why anyone would want to make a NEW Dracula when we already have a perfectly good one.  It'd be like making a WWII game and giving the origin story of how Gunther Eichelberger became Hitler.  Why not just use the Hitler that's already there?
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: uzo on June 18, 2011, 03:13:48 PM
Probably a timeline thing. You can cram more games into the past that way.
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: thernz on June 18, 2011, 06:29:11 PM
Can't wait for the next reboot in 2034.
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: crisis on June 19, 2011, 04:35:55 PM
For those that prefer the real-life Vlad Dracula, that's fine, go read a history book.

But for the fictional CASTLEVANIA franchise, well, it's been established since as early as The Castlevania Adventure that this Vlad Dracula was an ancient sorceror well before his IRL birth. The Japanese manual I believe stated he spent his early days summoning demons in his castle fortress, and that's how he's always been portrayed in the series (which is why by the time CVIII takes place, 1476 ((coincidentally the same year of real-life Vlad's death)), he's already several centuries old). So I see no problem with this different mythology for him, especially when you take into account what uzo said.
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: chainsawmidget on June 21, 2011, 04:03:07 PM
Well, if you're already accepting that Dracula is much older and, you know, has that whole demon army thing, then is it really that much of a stretch to say that Vlad has been around longer than people thought? 

I don't see how that's LESS plausible than having other characters decide they want to change their name and adopt the identity of some other guy for no real good reason. 
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: thernz on June 21, 2011, 04:28:59 PM
Usurp power maybe. In Dracula's case, he also went into hiding so it would make sense that he would change his identity a few times.
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: Laughing skeleton on July 16, 2011, 11:54:08 AM
I'll go with option three since i like the ancient sorceror identity from the classic castlevanias best.  This makes the battle with Dracula a frightening one because a confrontation with an impersonal adversary evokes the fear of the unknown.  Does my enemy even have a human aspect to him or am I facing the manifest visage of evil itself?
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: KaZudra on July 16, 2011, 02:11:51 PM
Classic Dracula?
I really hated the throwaway story in LoI as it also conflicts with canon anyways, the whole Mathias thing was stupid and it literally went nowhere.
What I Hate about LoI story is that its useless, IGA did a really good job making something that can be very important into something that was better off in a manual summary.
Besides, I find it impossible for the Belmont establishment to be 1000 years before the first slaying since Mathias Dissapeared form Transylvania for many centuries
Second, This story only somewhat builded up to one game, an arcade title that many people will not have the fortune to play.

Its sad that something useful like an origin story is pushed aside to this GREAT WAR OF 1999 that we all had to hear about in 4 games straight.
IGA can make some good games, but he seriously needs to overhaul his stories.
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: Profbeanburrito on July 16, 2011, 03:36:34 PM
It's really hard to tell since we barely saw Gabriel as Dracula, but he seems like he'll be awesome. I guess I'll have to answer this when a LoS sequel comes out
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: Flame on July 16, 2011, 04:53:18 PM
Classic Dracula?
I really hated the throwaway story in LoI
No more throwaway than the rest of the self contained games.

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as it also conflicts with canon anyways,
How?

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the whole Mathias thing was stupid and it literally went nowhere.
Huh. as if the other origins actually went anywhere either.

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Besides, I find it impossible for the Belmont establishment to be 1000 years before the first slaying since Mathias Dissapeared form Transylvania for many centuries
what..? I dont get what you mean here. you mean you find it impossible for Belmonts to exist and NOT kill dracula for a few centuries? How? Remember that Dracula did not start his war gainst humanity until his second wife was killed under the accusation of witchcraft
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Second, This story only somewhat builded up to one game, an arcade title that many people will not have the fortune to play.
What? it did? what game?

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Its sad that something useful like an origin story is pushed aside to this GREAT WAR OF 1999 that we all had to hear about in 4 games straight.
Aria and Dawn are only 2 games, friend.

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IGA can make some good games, but he seriously needs to overhaul his stories.
but ultimately, I have to agree a little bit.
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: julianbelmontxx1 on July 16, 2011, 05:54:51 PM
SOTN dracula and his phylosophic talk with richter.
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: KaZudra on July 16, 2011, 10:15:19 PM
No more throwaway than the rest of the self contained games.
Agreed, but to put so much emphasis on this game then abandon it just sets me in a bad mood
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How?
Trevor was the First Belmont to make the Family famous, the origins of Leon was not a bad idea, but to have his best friend Dracula HAS to be a conflict in canon
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Huh. as if the other origins actually went anywhere either.
agreed, but the unseen origins gave him a questionable origin like Joker, which made him alot better
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what..? I dont get what you mean here. you mean you find it impossible for Belmonts to exist and NOT kill dracula for a few centuries? How? Remember that Dracula did not start his war against humanity until his second wife was killed under the accusation of witchcraft
Its the establishment of the conflict so insignificantly early is the flaw, Belmonts and Dracula can exist in the past, but it was Trevor who started the whole tradition.
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What? it did? what game?
the wii-like arcade game where dracula comes out of hiding for the first time
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Aria and Dawn are only 2 games, friend.
I wish I could agree, but there are references in PoR and in OoE about the War to be
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but ultimately, I have to agree a little bit.
I Agree with your points too, Its mostly that I'm a bit angery on the focus of the Games since AoS, it seemed IGA wanted to focus on a big fight and the end of the franchise rather than work with this plausable origin story which could spawn many games in a Pre-Trevor Era
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: gortaithe on July 17, 2011, 01:22:02 AM
the best dracula is the one that NEVER 'fell in love and had babies'
alucards dad (dracula) is a weiner dracula.
mathias is a puss... 'wah my wife died. damn you god, to spite you and well... myself... i'm going to become a devil' = lame

gabriel... all around bad ass. never meant to become cursed, didn't 'hate' god, and still wrecked havoc and chaos throughout the ages (so much that satan dared not move until gabriel was in a weakned state) the only thing he's left to do, is die. but he can't. bad ass.
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: Profbeanburrito on July 17, 2011, 02:23:42 PM

gabriel... all around bad ass. never meant to become cursed, didn't 'hate' god

I'm pretty sure he hates god, like he hates everyone else in that game.

he hates himself for being controlled and killing his wife and Claudia, he hates the lords of shadow and Satan for using him, I think he begins to hate his wife for lying to him about the mask, and I'm also sure he probably hates god for keeping him on earth, not giving him his wife back and for having a worthless mask.

Gabriel pretty much hates everything by the end of the game and DLC, the only one he doesn't is Laura, but now she's dead too.
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: gortaithe on July 17, 2011, 04:04:00 PM
by the end of the game... i think he mostly hates himself. for being such a blinded fool. i dont' think he gets hateful until much later. at what point.. yes, he probably began to hate god. but eh... i can not begin to guess.

and i don't count the DLC's. i enjoyed playing them. enjoyed the new scenery, and robert carlyles wonderful narration.. but other than that... nooooope...

redo!! or at least a sequal.
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: darkwzrd4 on July 17, 2011, 04:58:16 PM
I don't think Gabe ever hated god.  At the end of LoS, he just didn't have anything to live for anymore.  He had in essence lost everything that mattered to him.  The only reason he went to help Laura was because he owed her for sparing his life.
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: gortaithe on July 17, 2011, 05:25:02 PM
I don't think Gabe ever hated god.  At the end of LoS, he just didn't have anything to live for anymore.  He had in essence lost everything that mattered to him.  The only reason he went to help Laura was because he owed her for sparing his life.

i agree to this. by endgame (dlc's nonwithstanding) that's all i thought. i didn't see that rage or hate. the epilogue however, it was apparent that something had happened. i mean... obviously. LOL there is also a fine line between gabriel and the evil that consumed him. i mean. sure, the evil hated god. gabriel's essence has been swollowed by the evil by the time the epilogue rolls around. but ah well, i don't think we'll ever know when this switch occurs or why...

yes i know it's riddled with spelling errors. LOL but i'm too tired to care.


Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: KaZudra on July 17, 2011, 10:34:33 PM
i agree to this. by endgame (dlc's nonwithstanding) that's all i thought. i didn't see that rage or hate. the epilogue however, it was apparent that something had happened. i mean... obviously. LOL there is also a fine line between gabriel and the evil that consumed him. i mean. sure, the evil hated god. gabriel's essence has been swollowed by the evil by the time the epilogue rolls around. but ah well, i don't think we'll ever know when this switch occurs or why...

yes i know it's riddled with spelling errors. LOL but i'm too tired to care.

agreed, he had a "this is my place whether i like it or not" feel to him as dracula
Title: Re: Who is the Better Dracula?
Post by: gortaithe on July 18, 2011, 12:00:41 AM
agreed, he had a "this is my place whether i like it or not" feel to him as dracula

perfect description i'd say ^__^