Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: Koutei on November 24, 2007, 09:39:42 AM
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From IGA's Blog "IGALOG"
http://mp.i-revo.jp/user.php/igalog/entry/80.html
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HAKASE - Q1:Are Maria and Annette sisters?
HAKASE - Q2:Is BGM of stage4' a "slash"?
IGA - A1:It is a profile of XX. I adopted the profile of the rondo. It becomes a content confirmed to the PC engine staff when the nocturne in the moonlight (SOTN) is produced.
IGA - A2:Yes, Slash. I confirmed it to those who composed. Sound track CD was a mistake.
HAKASE - Thank you.
HAKASE - Neither Maria nor Annette are sisters. Only, only XX is a profile of sisters. The name of Annette Renard is a mistake. "XXMaria" is not "Renard. "
HAKASE - stage 4'BGM - "Slash." Old Sound track CD of an rondo was a mistake. The name of a song of the "Dracula Battle Perfect Selection" was a mistake.
HAKASE - OK?
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A lot of people were misunderstanding it.
Even Castlevania Dungeon also.
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Exactly as I stated.
Rondo is the "correct" version. Annette and Maria are not sisters.
Thanks Koutei.
- John
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Slash is the correct name of the track for Stage 4', and Opus 13 is the correct name of the track for Stage 5' and Peke. Even the original Rondo game's sound test (emulate it if you want to check it out) has the names right.
The Dungeon is wrong, the Rondo soundtrack on there isn't even the same tracks. I stated this when the re-release of the Rondo soundtrack came out that I bought, the track names are the right order as the dungeon, but the tracks themselves are reversed for Opus 13 and Slash. Also, the tracks are different on the Dungeon. Like Bloody Tears fading out instead of finishing off with a beat, there shouldn't be Dracula's laughing before Dance of Illusions, Vampire Killer has a definite end instead of fading out, etc. There's plenty of differences between the Rondo soundtrack on the Dungeon and the real one.
I notified Kurt about this way back in the day. Don't know if it was ever intended to be fixed. As for Dracula Battle, I don't physically have the soundtrack, so I can't say.
BTW, a few of the folks around here and I have made high quality MP3s and OGGs of every soundtrack we could physically get our hands on. They were on my ftp server but it died.
As for Annette, well it's up for debate.
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As for Annette, well it's up for debate.
*head explodes*
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In Reply To #4
I see "HAKASE" extrapolating a lot more information from IGA's response than really seems warranted. I'm not saying that Maria and Anette ARE sisters (I really don't even care, because I can understand it isn't important), but all IGA said is that he followed the original Rondo profiles when Nocturne in the Moonlight was produced. IGA does not dismiss the DXX profile, nor does he really state that Maria and Anette aren't or couldn't be "sisters," or that "Anette Renard" is a mistake. All of that is interpretation on the part of this HAKASE person.
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If next IGA answers HAKASE, this will be proven.
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Please forgive my ignorance, and I am a COMPLETE 'tard, but...who's Hakase? :o
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My Japanese is crap, but the translation I got from IGA's post was:
"Thank you for coming to the event. <something about art in Osaka>. Although Maria and Annette are sisters in XX for the Super Famicom, the relationship (setup) in PC Engine version is the valid one (validated). When Nocturne was made, it was confirmed by the PC Engine staff."
Then he goes on to say to talk about "Slash".
So basically I read that to mean that the PC Engine relationship is the valid one, and the XX relationship is the invalid one.
Whether this convinces Wolfman Jake or not is another matter entirely....
- John
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In Reply To #8
Convince me of what? I don't care whether or not Maria and Annette are sisters. IGA's answer, as translated in the first post of the topic, doesn't disambiguate that matter at all. It doesn't matter, and is NOT an important plot point at all. It certainly isn't reason to lable DXX as "non-canon" since the relationship between Maria and Annette has no bearing whatsoever on what happens in SotN. Why does that fact frustrate you so much, Kensuke?
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Look, it got several plot elements wrong...so why do you want it kept in canon? They can't both be right. IGA already said what the correct version is.
So if it's not right on several counts...and there ARE two iterations of the game that DO get it right (Rondo and DXC) how and why can it be canon?
You're asking me why does it piss me off so much (it doesn't), so I'll ask you why you want to salvage that game?
If it makes you feel any better, I tried to find a way to salvage Legends before it became abundantly apparent to me that major surgery would have to be done on the game before it could fit in the timeline (though I still stand by my opinion that Sonia could be somehow saved).
- John
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Please do not bring the discussion about the XX canon law in.
It deviates from this topic.
Please go by other topics.
In Reply To #7
HAKASE is a questioner. It is a free handle name.
It is a guest.
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伊賀キヤノンxxを検討するわけではありますか？
ご自分の貧しい日本の言い訳します。
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Does Iga consider XX canon?
Please excuse my poor Japanese.
- John
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In Reply To #12
That's not the best way to ask the question, though. It's quite leading, and something is bound to be misconstrued in translation. IGA will of course say the Rondo details are prefered for his timeline, but that's not exactly what is being contested. What you should ask is if Dracula XX is an alternative to Rondo, a la Castlevania/SCV4/X68000, or even more generally, what is the deal with Dracula XX anyway?
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Bah. Do I have to change my fic now because of this? BTW I was going off the SoTN instruction manual, not the Dracula XX story. Maria's profile in that manual starts "As Richter's sister-in-law..." :-\
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In Reply To #14
Woah, I should have referenced the SotN manual far earlier. It clearly states that Maria is Richter's sister-in-law and is "not a Belmont by blood." Oops. Of course, this will just be more fodder for those who believe only Japanese manuals and games are ever correct.
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From USA DXC Manual 4Page
Maria Renard
A girl with distant blood ties to the Belmont clan.
This is the latest.
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In Reply To #14
Why would you have to, I'm guess you're talkin about a fanfic, and those are neer canon anyway. I wouldn't change mine to it if I already had something else.
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Wasn't the SotN english manual mistranslated? I recall hearing that, and mistranslation does not equal canon.
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In Reply To #18
"Mistranslated" is thrown about way too often. We're not talking about the difference of one word between the Japanese and U.S. manuals. By the way, not even the Japanese games themselves are necessarily infallible. The opening for the Japanese version of Dracula's Curse gets the date of Ralph's/Trevor's fight against Dracula completely wrong. It's off by over 100 years.
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In Reply To #14
Woah, I should have referenced the SotN manual far earlier. It clearly states that Maria is Richter's sister-in-law and is "not a Belmont by blood." Oops. Of course, this will just be more fodder for those who believe only Japanese manuals and games are ever correct.
Well back in the old days nintendo used bs us alot when it came to instruction manuals and even in game text in some places. They'd totally change certain elements and add things that were never supposed to be there in the first place and do all kinds of crazy stuff. Just look at the american and european versions of Legend of Demon Castle, those versions are drastically diff. and harder in some aspects. Especially since they used the castlevania one method of making all enemies in a level do X amount of damage and increasing that damage as you progress through the game. In the original version it all comes down to what hits you as to how much damage your recieve and I believe on some of the bosses in the Jp version you can take a hit or two more than the European and American versions. Up until DXC the XX game was all their was and when the translators brought over symphony they probably added certain things to the manual as was common place back then so gamers who would have only played XX could tie it in with Symphony. XX has now been turned into a gaiden game though and is not the definitive version of the events and since in the original Rondo Maria is not Annetes sister then she wouldn't be in symphony either. :)
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In Reply To #20
Changes to gameplay are likely due to Konami themselves, not Nintendo. Nintendo usually just asked (*cough* mandated) that certain graphics or texts be censored to avoid offending anyone. Any alterations to the U.S. SotN manual, gameplay, or in-game text were similarly Konami's own doing, not SCEA's. As for DXX, it's not a gaiden or sidestory. It's the same exact event as depicted in Rondo, but it changed some details that are ultimately of little import to the continuity of the series. DXX is a game that's an "imperfect" interpretation of a canon event.
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By the way, not even the Japanese games themselves are necessarily infallible.
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AHHH..Time Paradox...so, what's up with Anette? it's...weird..IGA..
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What are you talking about?
The opening to Legend of Demon castle says the events in the game take place 100 years before simon kills drac. :)
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What are you talking about?
As The Last Belmont said, the opening to the Japanese version of Dracula's Curse states that Ralph/Trevor fought Dracula 100 years before Simon did, which is simply wrong. Dracula's Curse takes place about 215 years before the events described in the original Castlevania. Uh oh! Is the Japanese version of Dracula's Curse "non-canon!?"
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My guess is that the guys who made the Densetsu series didn't have the "respect" for the series. You know, that same thing people are usually accusing KCEK of not having. And KCEN. And some people accuse IGA of not having it either. Hell, does anybody have it? ::)
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"Mistranslated" is thrown about way too often. We're not talking about the difference of one word between the Japanese and U.S. manuals. By the way, not even the Japanese games themselves are necessarily infallible. The opening for the Japanese version of Dracula's Curse gets the date of Ralph's/Trevor's fight against Dracula completely wrong. It's off by over 100 years.
To be fair, let the record reflect I originally pointed this out. ;D
But I also pointed out that DXX got it wrong too by saying that Simon defeated Dracula (and I quote) "several hundred years prior". That too is off by an indeterminate amount of time (it should read "100 years prior"...full stop). So along with the Maria and Shaft thing, there are three things in the DXX opening crawl that are at odds with the current official canon (a new record?).
http://castlevania.classicgaming.gamespy.com/Games/dxxintro.html
So yes, the game texts aren't always right, but they ARE trying to retroactively fix things in the games they do want to keep. The CV3 date reference was fixed in the timeline, and if they do a remake, I'm quite sure it'll be fixed there too. DXX hasn't been fixed in the timeline because it's not the true version of the events that happened in Rondo, so it ain't worth fixing.
As for IGA.....meh. I sure as hell don't agree with everything the man has done, but he *is* at least trying to make sense out of all this crap. Which is more than can be said pre-IGA, as proven by DXX and the aforementioned error in CV3.
- John
P.S. The topic is starting to wear kinda thin. Mainly because DXX wasn't all that popular outside of die-hard Castlevania fandom where people have to play every single game. I could understand having a big debate over this if there were two highly popular and contradictory games, but this is really just nitpicking a obscure area. DXC should have settled the issue once and for all. Rondo FTW. :)
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In Reply To #27
Why do you state that DXX hasn't been "fixed" by the timeline? How could you know? It's not mentioned in the timeline...but neither is Rondo per se. Richter's event is refered to simply as "Dracula X," which fits either game, similar to how "Castlevania" references all versions of Simon's first battle with Dracula on the timeline without picking a particular one as the "true events" that transpired. If the Japanese Dracula's Curse gets a by for content in the game being contradicted later by IGA, DXX gets the same by.
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The Japanese intro for Castlevania III does not say it takes place a hundred years before Simon; it says more than a hundred years.
Furthermore, the Japanese manual for the original Castlevania made it clear that Dracula rises once a century and that the last Belmondo to kill him was Christopher. So when the intro for Demon Castle Legend says more than a hundred years, it's obviously implying that it takes place even before Christopher. And if it involves Dracula, it must be roughly two hundred years before Simon.
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My guess is that the guys who made the Densetsu series didn't have the "respect" for the series.
Well you have to remember there were only 3 castlevania games out at the time and I don't know if they even considered the gb game canon at that point in time, cuz it's really just a stripped version of the first with certain new elements added. If anything putting the "more than" 100 years in the intro as serio pointed out shows they had some respect as that allows the exact date it takes place to be somewhat fluid though I think 215 years is pushing it a bit. Though at the time they could have picked any date they feasibly could have picked any date they wanted, and I'm not even sure if their were set dates for the first 2 in 89. If anything if one goes by just what's said in the early games/manuals the new timeline is incorrect.
The Japanese intro for Castlevania III does not say it takes place a hundred years before Simon; it says more than a hundred years.
Furthermore, the Japanese manual for the original Castlevania made it clear that Dracula rises once a century and that the last Belmondo to kill him was Christopher.
It does? That's interesting I didn't know that. I need to find a translated version of the manual. Hmm then I guess it was just a typo and it was supposed to be a 2 not a 1 in the intro to legend of demon castle. (understandable since Japanese normally use Kanji for numbers)
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In Reply To #29
Sorry, Steve.
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At that time CV3 was supposed to star Christopher too. Only later on they decided to split it. There are rumors (are they rumors though?) saying the C in Trevor's original name (Ralph C. Belmondo) was supposed to be a leftover from Christopher since he was supposed originally to be Chris, as in the hero Simon's game describes on the manual.
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The Dracula X MP3s have been up for so long, I have no idea where they came from. I actually didn't rip them. I suspect maybe they were ripped from the actual game CD.
Regardless, I'm gonna be uploading some new soundtracks soon, and most likely update those as well. And maybe stick in some clarifications of the correct track names.