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The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: KaZudra on October 03, 2011, 11:52:34 PM

Title: A New main Villian, is is neccessary?
Post by: KaZudra on October 03, 2011, 11:52:34 PM
through the course of 25 years, We've been fighting dracula.
Question is, Is Teleporing and 2 sets of fireballs getting old?

My Personal opinion, Yes, very.
Aside from rediculious plots and such, Dracula, almost existent for a millenium and never learned his lesson...
I say, let dracula leave the franchise until he's missed so He can come back when people actually want him...
Title: Re: A New main Villian, is is neccessary?
Post by: DarkPrinceAlucard on October 04, 2011, 12:07:14 AM
I wouldn't say its necessary.

But I would welcome it as long as it doesn't last to long and gets back to Dracula being the main villain after 1 or 2 games about the new main villain.

As I have said before I think Count Olrox would make a good main villian for a CV game.

Also Galamoth would be pretty badass to.

Those 2 are definitely main villain material IMO.
Title: Re: A New main Villian, is is neccessary?
Post by: Vrakanox on October 04, 2011, 12:10:52 AM
I think they should switch it up more often, that way when Dracula does show up it is that much more epic. I also really like what they did in Dawn of Sorrow where you fought the final boss and then afterwards if you played the game correctly you got to fight Menace (the true boss).
Title: Re: A New main Villian, is is neccessary?
Post by: darkwzrd4 on October 04, 2011, 12:21:49 AM
Well, the is plenty of room in the timeline between LoI and CV3 in which Mathias/Dracula is in hiding and accumulating power.  Besides, Dracula isn't the only powerful demon who threatens humanity.  Plus, he wasn't always the "Lord of Darkness".  Also, there are plenty of individuals who desire Dracula's power in the future.  In the small part of the novel that was translated on this forum in the fan stuff section, someone is apparently seeking the power of Chaos (at least, that's my impression from that small part).

Regardless of whether Konami continues with that timeline, there is plenty of stuff to use to add to the series whether Dracula remains the main villain or a new one emerges.  And, in all fairness, I'm tired of the old teleport/fireball routine.  At least the Dracula in the LoS timeline may be a melee fighter instead of just a mage that uses the same old tactics each and every time.
Title: Re: A New main Villian, is is neccessary?
Post by: Munchy on October 04, 2011, 01:34:48 AM
I'm going to cast my vote for Demon Castle Blackula.

And though I would've heavily preferred the castle at the end of the game, LoS having Carmilla as the castellan was a cool change. I wonder if the sequel will make use of her big ol' mask form somehow.

Now that I think about it, Frankenstein being the villain in a game would be pretty boss. (Pun intended.)
Title: Re: A New main Villian, is is neccessary?
Post by: DingusBelmondo on October 04, 2011, 04:27:36 AM
Dracula is fine... he is just always such a throwaway character it almost doesn't matter. Dracula is what first got me into Castlevania after I read the book and became fanatic. There is so much to his character, why can't they try to bring it out in the games a little bit? The most I recall Drac doing since symphony was in PoR and that isn't saying muc.
Title: Re: A New main Villian, is is neccessary?
Post by: KaZudra on October 04, 2011, 06:16:45 AM
Dracula started losing appeal when he looked less and less like Lugosi...
after all the shenanigans... Dracula isn't as cool as he used to be...


...but With absence He would be able to please his old fans as well as get a slew of new ones...
Title: Nue mane villin neccessarry?
Post by: crisis on October 04, 2011, 11:43:10 AM
I kinda like the "ancient" look Dracula has adopted.. his OoE appearance is my favorite. He actually regained his "Bela Lugosi" style in Polotate of Ruin which was an homage I think
Title: Re: A New main Villian, is is neccessary?
Post by: uzo on October 04, 2011, 11:47:49 AM
I think that mixing up the antagonist here, and in just about any franchise like it, would be the best idea. However, at this point? Its such a long standing tradition, outside of the "cant possibly happen in this game" situations, that I really don't think it would feel right without it.

If it happened sooner, I would be all for it, but it may be too late to change now. This is what we need a TRUE reboot for.
Title: Re: A New main Villian, is is neccessary?
Post by: Nagumo on October 04, 2011, 12:11:01 PM
Quote from: Kamui Zero on October 04, 2011, 06:16:45 AM
Dracula started losing appeal when he looked less and less like Lugosi...

lol what
Title: Re: A New main Villian, is is neccessary?
Post by: uzo on October 04, 2011, 12:16:34 PM
Additional thought:

Sometimes the best way to display the amount of badass the original and 'eternal' antagonist has, is to let another take the spot light, only for the original antagonist to come back and completely upstage and destroy the newbie.
Title: Re: A New main Villian, is is neccessary?
Post by: A-Yty on October 04, 2011, 03:12:05 PM
The way I've come to see it, Dracula isn't the main villain. His curse has turned him into an empty shell whose revival is dependant on the humans he so very much despises (then again, they'll keep doing it no matter what Dracula says or does because they think they can gain some of his power that way). If you want a pop culture comparison, he is more Darth Vader than Palpatine; capable of terrible things, but still a corrupted form of an originally decent person.
Title: Re: A New main Villian, is is neccessary?
Post by: A-Yty on October 04, 2011, 03:27:14 PM
Quote from: uzo on October 04, 2011, 12:16:34 PM
Additional thought:

Sometimes the best way to display the amount of badass the original and 'eternal' antagonist has, is to let another take the spot light, only for the original antagonist to come back and completely upstage and destroy the newbie.

Indeed. And it is perhaps for that reason these are one of the best moments in the abomination that is Judgment, IMO:

youtube.com/watch?v=trYtdXyp_GE#t=1m28s

youtube.com/watch?v=2VHxIf7zPOg#t=0m25s

youtube.com/watch?v=2VHxIf7zPOg#t=1m52s

And overall in that game..Dracula was simply..I cannot quite find the words :D

Classic Dracula doesn't give a shit about his minions and would rather keep losing to the puny humans than ally himself with the likes of Galamoth. I doubt Gabrielcula or anyone else can ever be so delightfully evilishly cool.
Title: Re: A New main Villian, is is neccessary?
Post by: Sumac on October 04, 2011, 04:43:52 PM
Not neccesary, but it could be good, if done right.
However I am not against Dracula being villain again and again. If done right, which wasn't the case in most of the games, which were released in the past years. I'd say his best incarnation gameplaywise was in OOE. Story wise he was at his best in Symphony (horrible voice acting aside) and CV64. Most of the time he had personality as good as furniture and gameplaywise he was just boring and repetetive.

He is good as tradition, but some traditions need to be discarded in order to make series overall better. Or rejuvenated.

Besides the are more characters that could be elevated to the position of the main bad guy in the games - Carmilla, Olrox, Reaper, Galamoth, Bartley.
Title: Re: A New main Villian, is is neccessary?
Post by: Reinhart77 on October 04, 2011, 05:01:01 PM
well, it seems Konami thought Castlevania needed a new main villain, at least for the Lords of Shadow sub-franchise.  Satan makes a decent enough main villain for me, as does the Forgotten One.  I haven't beaten the Forgotten One yet, so I don't know how much of a main villain he is, but since Satan's coming back, I'll assume Satan is the main villain. 

and even in the mainline canon of the story, Judgment hinted that Dracula's rise might have served some higher purpose, to thwart some kind of yet to be announced threat (perhaps Galamoth), so it seems to be headed in that direction in both timelines.

which is just fine to me, though there's nothing quite as classic as a good ole Drac is the ultimate badguy story that we need to be concerned about.

i'm currently reading a parody fanfiction Modern Problems which seems to have Walter Bernhardt be the main villain.  I wouldn't mind seeing him make a come back either.
Title: Re: A New main Villian, is is neccessary?
Post by: A-Yty on October 04, 2011, 07:08:37 PM
Satan is a ridiculous villain, IMO. Almost like a bad joke. He's the symbol of selfish assholes who want to throw an overly dramatic, childish tantrum and act hurt whenever someone trolls them by saying satanism means eating babies and masturbating to slaughtered goats in full moonlight. Also, he was able to pyrokinetically take Zobek down from a distance, but had to air-joust with Gabriel only to suffer a humiliating defeat while wearing a stupid mask and no clothes? The only good thing about him was that he was voiced by Jason Isaacs.

The best thing about Classic ol' Drac as the bad guy is his seemingly infinite refusal to compromise. It's only in SotN he may have expressed any kind of regret. And this was after he tried to (probably) kill his son.

But seeing as how Galamoth has been in the series in some form since the 1990's (even if he began in a parody game), it might not be too far-fetched that he's been gradually built into the story's Bigger Bad on purpose. Galamoth wants power, Drac wants revenge. If they ever fight each other directly (and I hope they will 8)), I'd puke if Drac was doing it to save the world. I'd want him to do it because he's not going  to let an Evil Electric Dinosaur steal his chance to "cleanse the world".
Title: Re: A New main Villian, is is neccessary?
Post by: Kingshango on October 04, 2011, 08:34:05 PM
I think Satan could have been used better in LOS as well but I did like how even in defeat he still acted like he had already won and continued to taunt Gabriel before getting sent back to hell.

Quote from: A-Yty on October 04, 2011, 07:08:37 PM
But seeing as how Galamoth has been in the series in some form since the 1990's (even if he began in a parody game), it might not be too far-fetched that he's been gradually built into the story's Bigger Bad on purpose. Galamoth wants power, Drac wants revenge. If they ever fight each other directly (and I hope they will 8)), I'd puke if Drac was doing it to save the world. I'd want him to do it because he's not going  to let an Evil Electric Dinosaur steal his chance to "cleanse the world".

Im sure we'll probably see Galamoth and Dracula go at it
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: A New main Villian, is is neccessary?
Post by: A-Yty on October 04, 2011, 08:47:48 PM
I'm more interested in seeing him in the Classic continuity. Maybe play a role in the Demon Castle War, for example. They'd probably just use him as another namedrop in LoS 2.
Title: Re: A New main Villian, is is neccessary?
Post by: Munchy on October 05, 2011, 12:32:44 AM
Quote from: A-Yty on October 04, 2011, 08:47:48 PM
They'd probably just use him as another namedrop in LoS 2.

BURRRRRN

Though I can't say it's unwarranted.
Title: Re: A New main Villian, is is neccessary?
Post by: Flame on October 05, 2011, 01:25:51 AM
Quote from: Kingshango on October 04, 2011, 08:34:05 PM
Im sure we'll probably see Galamoth and Dracula go at it
(click to show/hide)
shhhhh dont give them ideas
Title: Re: A New main Villian, is is neccessary?
Post by: Munchy on October 05, 2011, 03:13:41 AM
Quote from: Kingshango on October 04, 2011, 08:34:05 PM
Im sure we'll probably see Galamoth and Dracula go at it

The mental imagery I'm getting here is NOT good.
Title: Re: A New main Villian, is is neccessary?
Post by: Vampire Killer on October 05, 2011, 05:48:53 AM
I have to say that Satan's appearance in LoS was a complete shock to me. When he first appeared (I think that he had somehow possessed Zobek, then used him as a sort of gateway, burning through his body to come onto the mortal plane) I thought he was Dracula. And I was like "(o_0)WTF!?, that's a really weird way to finally throw Dracula into the mix. Just have him suddenly show up at the end. What's the point other than it's Castlevania, so Drac's gotta be the last boss?" because up until this moment I still thought Drac would be the end boss.

But when he looked up and said "FATHER, I come for you! Now YOU will bow down to ME!!", right after that last line, I literally said out loud "Oh...my...GOD! It's Satan!"

Even during the old school games, I always figured at no matter how powerful and evil Drac was, considering that Castlevania's has Christianity as a background wordlview meant that satan was ultimately behind it all. So to me, having satan as the main villain for Castlevania makes perfect sense.

Would still like a return to form after a few games though.
Title: Re: A New main Villian, is is neccessary?
Post by: Deko21 on October 05, 2011, 06:11:44 AM
No matter who the "new" villain is, dracula will always be the last person you fight weither or not he appeared throught the whole game or mentioned. Brauner, Albus, and a couple others acted as villains of those games, but in the end, Dracula is always waiting for you.
Title: Re: A New main Villian, is is neccessary?
Post by: Chernabogue on October 05, 2011, 01:35:19 PM
Dracula should be the main villain, but other demons (Galamoth, Satan) or characters may also play the role of the antagonist. Make cool storylines!!
Title: Re: A New main Villian, is is neccessary?
Post by: Sumac on October 05, 2011, 03:04:08 PM
Quote
No matter who the "new" villain is, dracula will always be the last person you fight weither or not he appeared throught the whole game or mentioned. Brauner, Albus, and a couple others acted as villains of those games, but in the end, Dracula is always waiting for you.
Because of this Dracula was ridiculuosly shoehorned into games where his appearance was completely uncalled and unneeded (POR, HOD, COD).
Title: Re: A New main Villian, is is neccessary?
Post by: X on October 05, 2011, 04:50:22 PM
Didn't they already have Satan in the Japanese version of CV3? The big red demon in the third coffin?
Title: Re: A New main Villian, is is neccessary?
Post by: Chernabogue on October 05, 2011, 06:06:11 PM
Quote from: X on October 05, 2011, 04:50:22 PM
Didn't they already have Satan in the Japanese version of CV3? The big red demon in the third coffin?
I think it is either Galamoth or Leviathan. Need to check though.
Title: Re: A New main Villian, is is neccessary?
Post by: A-Yty on October 05, 2011, 06:28:01 PM
I doubt Satan was ever mentioned in any original story.

The gargoylish boss of the CV3 trio was just localized into "Leviathan".
Title: Re: A New main Villian, is is neccessary?
Post by: Reinhart77 on October 05, 2011, 07:48:48 PM
The "Leviathon" in Castlevania III is actually a "Lesser Demon" in Japanese, the same type of demon later fought in Symphony of the Night.  Satan's never fought, though several enemies called "Devil" appeared, though it's more of a generic term than fighting Satan himself.  "Satan's Ring" is actually "Dark Lord's Ring" in Japanese, which could refer to Dracula or another dark lord.

http://castlevania.wikia.com/wiki/Lesser_Demon (http://castlevania.wikia.com/wiki/Lesser_Demon)
http://castlevania.wikia.com/wiki/Devil (http://castlevania.wikia.com/wiki/Devil)
http://castlevania.wikia.com/wiki/Satan%27s_Ring (http://castlevania.wikia.com/wiki/Satan%27s_Ring)
Title: Re: A New main Villian, is is neccessary?
Post by: KaZudra on October 05, 2011, 09:59:22 PM
Castlevania needs to go back to its roots and remember what it truly was from the start.
A Spendid Monster Mash!
Title: Re: A New main Villian, is is neccessary?
Post by: crisis on October 05, 2011, 10:24:33 PM
only villain that should be allowed to scream DIE BELMONT! is Dracula

Dracula has more sex appeal, better outfits, etc.

Garamoth is an electric dinosaur

watching Dracula fight Satan will be like watching Charlie Sheen fight Chuck Lorre; no one is interested in the latter because the former is too badass rockstar from Mars so uhh

however i do agree Satan was necessary in LoS cuz it shows how Dracula usurps him for Hell's thrown but
him coming back for revenge 1000 years later is kinda silly. Castlevania=Belmonts vs. Dracula & HIS dEMON cASTLE, ALWAYS AND FOREVER

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv119%2Fc0mbat%2FBookletFront.jpg&hash=927dbc0a9f8969763b359f1064ed4707f195f394)

can i get an amen! ?(pun intended)
Title: Re: A New main Villian, is is neccessary?
Post by: Vampire Killer on October 06, 2011, 04:48:09 AM
Quote from: Crisis on October 05, 2011, 10:24:33 PM
watching Dracula fight Satan will be like watching Charlie Sheen fight Chuck Lorre; no one is interested in the latter because the former is too badass rockstar from Mars so uhh

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.planetcalypsoforum.com%2Fgallery%2Ffiles%2F3%2F7%2F2%2F3%2F9%2Flol_wut.jpg&hash=104e831afb52cc709c82a0a46fd16f4c09855c3b)



Quote from: Crisis on October 05, 2011, 10:24:33 PM
him coming back for revenge 1000 years later is kinda silly. Castlevania=Belmonts vs. Dracula & HIS dEMON cASTLE, ALWAYS AND FOREVER

I actually like the idea. It seems as if whatever happened to satan when he was blasted back to hell kicked his ass so bad that it's taken him this long to replenish his strength (and build an army) strong enough to beat Gabula w/ TFO powers. What's a millennium to an immortal being, anyway?



Quote from: Crisis on October 05, 2011, 10:24:33 PM
can i get an amen! ?(pun intended)

That's a pun?
Title: Re: A New main Villian, is is neccessary?
Post by: Ahasverus on October 06, 2011, 04:54:36 AM
I agree, we need another villain, if not others villians, even rivaling Dracula himself.
Title: Re: A New main Villian, is is neccessary?
Post by: crisis on October 06, 2011, 01:06:58 PM
a Titan-esque battle that resembles a winged pig-orc named Sashashversies and speaks broken Romanian would be a swell last boss

when he dies he will vow to return one day, but will send his time reaper servant instead
Title: Re: A New main Villian, is is neccessary?
Post by: Munchy on October 06, 2011, 08:36:28 PM
Quote from: Crisis on October 06, 2011, 01:06:58 PM
a Titan-esque battle that resembles a winged pig-orc named Sashashversies and speaks broken Romanian would be a swell last boss

when he dies he will vow to return one day, but will send his time reaper servant instead

In all seriousness, a Titan battle with a grotesque rotting creature like Beelzebub would be fucking gnarly.

Just don't put "HOLD RT TO GRAB" all the fucking time. Once is all I need, I don't have Alzheimer's dammit.
Title: Re: A New main Villian, is is neccessary?
Post by: Arma on October 08, 2011, 11:03:18 AM
Quote from: Kamui Zero on October 03, 2011, 11:52:34 PM
through the course of 25 years, We've been fighting dracula.
Question is, Is Teleporing and 2 sets of fireballs getting old?

My Personal opinion, Yes, very.
Aside from rediculious plots and such, Dracula, almost existent for a millenium and never learned his lesson...
I say, let dracula leave the franchise until he's missed so He can come back when people actually want him...

Pehaps not so much puting him aside as to alternate with other enemies, he shouldn't appear so often so when he does it'll be more epic and of course Dracula should be a lot more deadly now and have more powers than the ones mentioned.