Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: Opium on November 12, 2011, 12:32:39 PM
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A couple days ago I started another playthrough of SotN. I sometimes avoid broken items/spells, or at least the use of them, because it just makes the game too easy. This time I went all out - duplicator, unlimited $$$, double crissaegrim, double heaven sword, double runesword, very blood-soaked muramasa, usable sword familiar, etc. They are definitely novelties that are fun to play with, but they basically make you invincible to everything the game throws at you. I'm curious, does this make the game more or less fun for everyone who does it, or do some consider that that's just how the game should be played well?
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I like being an indestructable god in the game.
Although I carry one crissaegrim, and try to stock two, I don't wear two. I like having my Alucard Shield.
Sometimes I put on the Shield Rod so I can kill/heal with the shield on.
I also level up the familiars to Lv99. The Demon and the Bat are my absolute faves. "ICE SPEAR!!!"
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I like being an indestructable god in the game.
I actually like that to lol.
Its one of my favorite things about the metroidvanias and that is the ability to level up and become a 1 man army plowing through enemies lol.
Unfortunately this is also the very same reasons some people do not like metroidvanias.
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I think in later games they have responded to the problem with hard modes. It is strange how they let you keep all the stuff that made you a god during the first playthrough, so hard mode isn't really that hard at all. I suppose the level cap of 1 is a good challenge (yikes!). I would like to start a game on hard mode WITHOUT keeping my shit from the normal playthrough.
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I actually like that to lol.
Its one of my favorite things about the metroidvanias and that is the ability to level up and become a 1 man army plowing through enemies lol.
Unfortunately this is also the very same reasons some people do not like metroidvanias.
Right here it's not that it is bad but but for me most of the time it just does not sit well for me castlevania is about having a tough yet possible challenge, yet at the same time some games just ask for it I am looking at you Lu-Bu freaking dynasty warriors. Final Fantasy with the secret bosses I remember dawn of souls it was the remake on the GBA that had a secret cave with shinryu and some other thing in it a Robot I think it was I also remember I remember that even being maxed was still hard So I remeber just stocking the heck out of items till the cows came home.
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Having broken items is fun at first. I mean being able to slaughter everything in your path with little to no effort and not taking any damage can be very fun, but it gets old fast. It's not as fulfilling as beating a tough game. This is precisely why I think metroidvanias should throw out the leveling system. Even with godly items, not leveling up can get in the way. This is why I like the hard mode in the later metroidvanias. Especially, with a level one cap. Even with godly items, it's still a challenge.
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You forgot to mention putting on double Rings of Varta. I personally think that going all out doesn't take away from the fun factor of this game. People just have different ideas on how to play it, is all. What ever caters to your liking, go for it. :)
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There isn't a single thing in Symphony that isn't fun. Whether breaking it entirely or going through with no items, the game always manages to be a blast.
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You forgot to mention putting on double Rings of Varta. I personally think that going all out doesn't take away from the fun factor of this game. People just have different ideas on how to play it, is all. What ever caters to your liking, go for it. :)
Rings of Varda are definitely awesome. I have three, only because I got two of them back to back while trying to get the second one.
Duplicator is probably the most fun thing to play with. I defeated dracula using TNT and iron balls.
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I kinda agree with Jorge, I love being god, it's the appeal AOS had to me.
But even when you weren't god and were trying to play it with as little help as possible the game was still enjoyable.
That might just be nostalgia though.
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It does for me. The game isn't really that hard to begin with. While I like the exploration and customization elements of Symphony, I really lose motivation to play without a good challenge. I like my games to challenge me so that I feel like I NEED to use the best armor, weapons, etc. Not like I'm suddenly the destroyer of worlds if I do. I like to be on the edge of my seat, not knowing if I'll make it through the stage/area. Without a good challenge, it's like the game is just holding my hand through the adventure, but I'd rather accomplish a great challenge on my own. It's definitely more satisfying to me that way.
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No, i think the game takes away the fun by the end. Yes, SoTN is an amazing game but by the end when you have all Alucard's gear nothing is really a challenge.
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No, i think the game takes away the fun by the end. Yes, SoTN is an amazing game but by the end when you have all Alucard's gear nothing is really a challenge.
I was thinking more of things like crissaegrim, powered up muramasa, powered up sword familiar, duplicator, etc than Alucard's gear. His gear is strong and all, but I wouldn't consider it game-breaking...is it?
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When ever I make an overpowered Alucard he's equipped with the following: Crissaegrim, Alucard shield, Either Dracula's tunic or God's garb, Dragon's helm and 2 Rings of Varda. I also hang around the reverse marble gallery nearby the clock room and do some serious leveling up against those final guards.
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this brings me to one major question about metroidvanias...
Why is there any level above 60? all the games pretty much at at 60 since there's nowhere to apply such strengh.
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I was thinking more of things like crissaegrim, powered up muramasa, powered up sword familiar, duplicator, etc than Alucard's gear. His gear is strong and all, but I wouldn't consider it game-breaking...is it?
You have a good point. Considering you don't get his gear til the end of the game no i wouldn't consider it game breaking. If you were to put in Gameshark codes or hack it to have Crissaegrim and powerful gear at the beginning then THAT would be game breaking
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You're right, it's way off topic, sorry about that.
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I didn't wanna create a new thread, so anyway...
Do you have a Japanese PS3? If so, this is your lucky day.
I'm giving away my redeem code for SotN. It came from the Japanese LE Lords of Shadow PS3 bundle.
I'm not sure if it's the actual SotN game or just the OST, but most likely it's the game.
There's a date on it, 12-15-2011. I can't read japanese but it's probably the expiration date.
I know I'm never going to use it so that's why I'm giving it to one of you die-hard Castlevania fans!
I'm not just going to give it away blind so you have to supply proof that you have a Japanese PS3.
Maybe take a picture or take a video of you signed in, in the japanese PSN store while the XMB is overlayed on the screen.
My email is in my profile so email it to me as an attachment or post it somewhere and give me the link to view 'em.
If they look legit, I'll reply back to your email with the code.
First come first serve, so hurry!
This is totally off-topic, just saying. You'd have been better off just making a new thread.
ON-TOPIC NOTE: Breaking the game does kill the fun for me. As fun as it is to run around and destroy everything like a God, I kinda do prefer jumping around and dodging attacks, actually swinging my sword. ^.^
Though in HD's case, I'm dying to get that Valmunway...
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His post has a different subject line, so I wonder if it was moved to this thread...but why?
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this brings me to one major question about metroidvanias...
Why is there any level above 60? all the games pretty much at at 60 since there's nowhere to apply such strengh.
HA! That can pretty much be said about almost all RPG's too.
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Does breaking the game take away from the fun?
Yes.
It may be fun at first but after a while it gets boring.
Personally I had the most fun looking for the rare items the enemies drop sometimes, my favourite was that sword that throws flames when Alucard swings it.
I'd say when you completed 100% of the game, found all the secrets and tried all the tricks then breaking the game may bring some novelty, but not for long.
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I like that sword 'cuz it makes an explosive sound when it releases the flames. Ha ha! Boomstick!
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Using game breaking weapons and items? yeah, I prefer not to do that. Its fun once in a while, but for the most part I prefer fighting with everything else that isn't broken as to make the game more challenging. Whether its the Crisagrim here or the valmanway in Harmony of despair, I just don't like using them all that much unless I want to use blender mode just for kicks (course, never for the entire game).
Sequence breaking is another story though; getting the Alucart equips or the Jewel knuckles early is fun ;D
Speaking of Harmony of despair brokenness, I don't suppose the Muramasa +1 is considered broken? I much prefer that over the valmanway just because if used correctly it can attack just as fast, but it still has its stall time otherwise. Pretty sure the claim solias (+1) isn't broken because of its major stall time. Sorry for the off topic question again, but Im just curious.
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well, once you've reached a certain point in the game, all there to do is try to collect everything. it's nice to be the strongest possible in order to get everything the quickest. that goal can be fun, but I'm worn out on it. Aria of Sorrow was the last game I've really went all out and tried to get everything. i guess all that morphing of items in Dawn of Sorrow and Curse of Darkness so that you can't keep your original items put the breaks on that hobby for me.
once i start approaching "god" status now adays, i start to lose interest in the game now. instead, i eagerly want to finish the game so that i can start a new game on a harder level, or make new challenges for myself to play with. i do feel a little sad about all of the little extra things (100% map completion, all items, all quests completed) that i could have done in the original game if i had the patience for it though.
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For me not at all... until I played the game repeatedly and had enough experience to go through the game without difficultly ( even w/o the best weapons such as crissaegrim) then it does lose its fun somewhat....
Although the first time I played SOTN I wasn't a "hardcore" Castlevania so I will be brave enough to admit while I didn’t “struggle” with the game per say, I did die a few times.. (mainly out of carelessness especially with bosses like the Granfalloon and Galamoth where your kind of expected to take your time..) so I am not sure if the relative “fun = challenge” with the weapons could be down to the fact I sucked anyway at the time ( shameful as it was >.>..).
Even when I played a second time around and looked at guides that pointed me towards getting the crissaegrim, dracula’s tunic, and stuff, because I was still relatively new to the game, I did take them for granted.. for example I was bashing away with Galamoth wearing the topaz circlet and crissaegrim equipped, and while he wasn’t too hard, I did nearly die. I basically got too comfortable with this weapon and thought I could have easily curb-stomped him w/o having to worry about evading his strike patterns....
After I realised how much damage he was doing while I stayed in one corner slicing away, I had to quickly mist-form away to the upper right then gorge through a few Frankfurters before resuming the battle with due-caution for his moves..
Basically what I am tried to get at is I think to me experience with the game also has a part to play with removing the said “challenge/fun” more than anything really..the first time I was completely oblivious to these items and only slightly more experienced second time around ( which was like 1 year gap between plays btw.. ) where I "cheated" per say, and looked them up. Once I wised up and didn’t overlook certain weapons due to ignorance I realised what the best combo was (like using mormegill on Richter, ect)
from a newbie kind of standpoint and with obliviousness to the game itself as a whole, I still found I had to keep on my toes and not get too careless ( though with most enemies with the crissaegrim they were rather pathetic..) especially with some traps, badly placed spikes and dangerous terrain and things.. I donno if I would call it a challenge but a game as a whole I didnt get “bored” with it as I knew I had to still be somewhat prepared with the areas and how to deal with them. Only when I deal with these obstacles ad-nauseam did I feel this game was too easy.. ( which by then I had played the game too often anyway)..
for me they kind of feel like little small extras. ( not quite omake, as they are still technically part of the main game as a whole, however unless you know the castle like the back of your hand..., you’re likely to pass by the opportunities without a backward glance..) .. kind of like any rpg where you usually have a kind of side quest to obtain this uber- ultimate weapon that will cull through most enimies like they were origami figures, but even though they are reasonably accessible in SOTN, you wont know where to get them or how unless brush through the game in its entirety with a fine comb and work for them. ( or look up a guide, which if you want a true “challenge”, you wouldn’t do anyway ) . and even with rings of vardia you still have to finish the game at least once, which by then you kind of already know what the game will throw at you.
Repetitive play will naturally make the game easier also, as you kind of develop innate responses to how to deal with tasks at hand, so that challenge will be lessened by your experience also somewhat, and by then it would get boring anyway..
So basically try to put yourself in the mindset of a first time player ( maybe even new to the Castlevania game as a whole) who has no idea where or when to find /get these weapons, unless they are luckily and decided it’s a good idea to stay in the inverted castle’s library and level of schmoos, it’s unlikely that they are going to get a Crissaegrim first time ( unless they get really lucky or decide wearing Alucart gear is a good idea throughout the game..) so the game will still be somewhat of a challenge to them as whole, maybe not by the obstacles but kind of like the first Metroid, where exploration is the key to getting the best out of the game..
Basically I think the “freshness/uniqueness ” of a game keeps it fun/challenging, and as a whole SOTN is so good/unique (design wise as a whole, an all) that I would come back maybe a year or a few months down the line and pop it back in again, and still would have a good time even with crissaegrim, duplicator, ect, having been rusty on a few details to what to expect... mainly because of how many elements besides the best weapons make the game great....
Does that make sense??? ( sorry if the grammar sucks btw, wrote this all in a hurry..)