Castlevania Dungeon Forums
Off Topic => Off Topic => Topic started by: Mooning Freddy on December 01, 2011, 11:32:26 AM
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I'm taking Islamic faith as one of my courses at the moment. We all remember the djinn (or genie) in the story about Aladdin. But how many of us know that djinns (demons in Arab folklore) are actually a part of Islamic belief, and that at least some Muslims believe in?
I'm studying a book in which a theologian explains the basics of Muslim religion. He criticizes certain early Islamic literature and hadith (law) because it sometimes argues about matters as irrelevant as marriages with djinns. One story, he explains, tells of an Arab rich man who had four djinn-wives.
http://in.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091007030233AAalkf7 (http://in.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091007030233AAalkf7)
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Islam-947/2010/3/Human-relation-Djinn.htm (http://en.allexperts.com/q/Islam-947/2010/3/Human-relation-Djinn.htm)
How about you, guys? Would you merry a djinn-wife if you could? ;D Or would it rather be a marriage with Shaitan?
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HELL NO
have you ever seen the movie Wishmaster?
Wishmaster Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJgl3uoxXc0#)
That is why me am no marry one.
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But how many of us know that djinns (demons in Arab folklore) are actually a part of Islamic belief, and that at least some Muslims believe in?
Everyone who has seen Wishmaster 8)
Edit: damn you, Crisis ;D
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Wes Craven? Robert Englund? In a low-rated film? Sounds like my kind of popcorn & alcohol night.
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I think many Muslim scholars don't really consider djinn as demons, but rather as creatures with similar intelligence, beliefs, and customs to that of humans. I believe Islam teaches they were made by God from smokeless fire, whereas humans were made from the dust. Tradition also has it that there are Muslim djinn as well.
Some scholars pretty much regard them as living in another dimension that we cannot comprehend, and hypothesize that some djinn feel the same about humans as some humans do about them.
Of course, many Muslims may not even believe in djinn. Islam is a very fascinating and complex religion.
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14:22 spits in the face of demoniac apologetics. (scroll to the very bottom of the 2nd link) "And Satain will say, '... I only invited, but you followed.' Goes against all that "The devil made me do it" hoopla.
It explains in one of the passages how humans could co-exist with djinni, so obviously it's possible.
Sidenote, the passages where Iblis talks back to Allah to me just make Allah sound like a little kid. "See this? This is my greatest work of art! Appreciate it!" Then Iblis was like, "What the hell? Is that a ... What is that? I can't tell if that's a retarded tree or a gorilla." And Allah said, "It's a man!" And Iblis said, "Dude, that so isn't your greatest work. How much candy did you have to eat last night?" Then Allah said, "Go to hell, jerk!"
But I don't personally give any credence to any Judeo-Christian/Islamic mumbo-jumbo. It's all Zoroastrian mk.II thru mk.IV anyway.
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How are you going to marry something that's going to be trapped for the rest of it's immortal life by King Solomon?
And .... indeed, Wish Master was my first thought too.
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Dunno, I might be tempted...
(http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/7640/74c0de6942873d03289fc3d.jpg)
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If you rub the "magic lamp" the genie will come.
^out
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I'D RUB HER MAGIC LAMP IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN
y'know, somehow, that just DOESN'T quite work as well in reference to a woman...
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Islam is a very fascinating and complex religion.
Fascinating? Yes. Complex? I believe history made it so. I don't believe Muhammad the prophet intended it to be so; rather, he wanted it to be simple. Much like Jesus of Nazareth and other prophets before him, he was bothered by the corruption and immorality of the people around him and thus formed a religion which was intended to create a better society. The very meaning of Islam is "devotion" or "submission" (to Allah).
The greatest values in the religion are modesty and mercifulness, and the basic idea is that when people understand their inferiority compared to God, this destroys their pride and creates a more equal society.
Out of all the values attributed to Allah, Muslims emphasize His mercifulness. Every sura (chapter) in the Quran starts with "Bismillah al-rahman al-rahim", which translates to "in the name of God, the gracius and merciful".
Those great values of tolerance and justice sound a bit strange when compared to modern radical Islamists and certain Muslim states, which are neither tolerant nor particularly merciful, or Muslim kings and princes who are far from being considered modest. It just shows us that real life doesn't exactly appear the way ideologists want it to.
Hehe, that's a nice painting, Flame.
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My parents are Muslim, but I don't know too much about Djinns...going from that article, though, it seems like too much trouble. ~_~
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I cannot help but smile at the seriousness of people's responses to the question.
"You may not befriend djinns. >:( It is harram (forbidden). You must only befriend Allah." >:(
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>.>
Marriage is legal slavery! You aren't befriending anyone!
Now ... GET BACK IN THE KITCHEN!
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Found the pic on gelbooru when I searched "Djinn" or "Genie" (cant remember which- also, NSFW warning on gelbooru)
Religion really is a fascinating thing to study. (especially from a neutral viewpoint. I consider myself Catholic, but im not particularly religious, so im more or less neutral) ALL religions have branches, and some of those often are radicals. Its just a matter of how many vs how many.
Christianity for example, has TONS of branches. AND has had (and HAS) it's own radical movements.
Islam, from what I have seen though, is VERY impressionable, and it seems like it is very easy for your every day average person to suddenly go radical. It happens all over the news. Seemingly normal man with family, all that, suddenly goes on a rampage or tries to blow something up. They investigate his recent actions, and find he either went to the middle east recently, or had been in constant recent touch with an Imam.
Im really interested in how that happens. How is it that simple to twist someone's view of their religion just like that? Even mist scholars of Islam agree that what the radicals preach is NOTHING like what is actually outlined in the Qur'an
We need a religion discussion topic up in dis board I think.
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We need a religion discussion topic up in dis board I think.
I though there was already a topic on this, but it was some years back. I could be wrong.
I don't believe in marriages as I see it as a form of exploitation against women and it robs them of their freedom. In the middle ages if a woman wasn't married she was accused of being a witch or heretic by the church and either tortured or killed. A Celtic or Pegan marriage is far more open and free. Both partners were allowed or encouraged to be promiscuous with whomever they wanted even though they were married. This type of system allowed for a more closely-nit, family-like society.
Marrying a Djinn..? Don't know. Whether or not this is true I have heard that Djinns are the same a Genies except that Djinns are very tricky to deal with when it comes to granting wishes. A Genie will always come through for you where as a Djinn will intentionally mess up your wish as a prank or something. Take "Return of Jafar" as an example; Jafar is a Djinn. The thief whom freed Jafar wished for a ship filled with treasure. Instead of getting the ship he was taken straight to the ship; Underwater where he could die! Another time he was thinking of wanting to wish for a chest of treasure; he then found himself inside a treasure chest! Unless I am mistaken about this, Djinns to me are bad news. You would have to have the trickery and treachery of a master Lawyer or Devil's advocate in order to fool them and keep you safe.
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Well, it depends on if the Djinn has the same feelings for you as you for the Djinn. if you married one, I assume it would be because you loved each other like any other couple. I dont think a Djinn who loved her husband would seriously pull Jafars on him.
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"I wanna get laid!"
*Zombie Randy Savage busts through the door and bodyslams me*
"...Ugh. Me and my big mouth.
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Marriages today are much more of an economic agreement than anything else. It's required because married couples live together and share their possessions, and once they have children they share the economic responsibility for them.
It doesn't mean a couple can't live together and have children without being married; It's just that often mutual trust is not enough and responsibility doesn't fade away overtime as love often does.
The problem today is that many people do not understand the responsibilities of marriage and problems that may arise in case of a divorce. My grandma and grandpa HATE each other. They argue constantly. Still, they lived together for decades because considering divorce at such an age is quite impossible. The importance of keeping the family together overcomes the inconvenience of living with a person you don't even like anymore.
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I though there was already a topic on this, but it was some years back. I could be wrong.
I don't believe in marriages as I see it as a form of exploitation against women and it robs them of their freedom.
Maybe in certain places or time periods... but nowadays? In america? It's more like a form of exploitation against men and robs them of their freedom.
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I love how this thread is starting to shift from a discussion about religion to an argument about marriage. *grabs popcorn*
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hey guys watch this (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/c0mbat/laugh.gif)
http://www.milkandcookies.com/link/42596/detail/ (http://www.milkandcookies.com/link/42596/detail/)
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Marriage is the biggest mistake a MAN can make. It's often in a woman's best interest to get married, but it's just stupid for a man to get married, especially in the US. At least make the bitch sign a prenuptial agreement. Legally, marriage is a loss for men and a win for women. Back in the good old days when you could just bury your wife in the backyard and no one would ask questions, marriage wasn't such a bad idea. It's cheaper to blow all your money in Las Vegas than it is to get married, if you're a guy.
Now if you can get a loner chick that no one will miss.... Er, forget I said anything.
... Engagements are the 2nd biggest mistake. Less expensive than a marriage but still fuck you over.
... My fiance said I'm not allowed to break up with her yet. :-[
Back on topic, where else will you find a wife that's as smoking hot as a djinn? ;D
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I bet you're probably kidding, TheouAegis, but you have more of a point than it might seem at first glance. Divorced men are one of the unhappiest segments of the population, at least in the US, and given how likely divorce is these days...;_;
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Next issue!!
( hehehe )
Islamic hadith often discusses matters of law and also states punishment for offenses. Commonly, the punishment for certain offenses are numerous whip-lashes.
This kind of punishment is still used today in Muslim states like Saudi Arabia. Modern states, however, view physical penalty as cruel and use fines instead.
And my question is: If you committed a certain crime, and may choose between being charged a big fine, like 5000$, or instead enduring 30-40 whip lashes, what would you prefer?
Pay attention that being whipped, even once, is extremely painful, causes scars and possible permanent damage.
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But I don't personally give any credence to any Judeo-Christian/Islamic mumbo-jumbo. It's all Zoroastrian mk.II thru mk.IV anyway.
Thank you! I was starting to think I was the only person left that knows that 75% of all judeo-christian religion is ripped off from Zarathustra.
I don't believe in marriages as I see it as a form of exploitation against women and it robs them of their freedom.
Having been married, I can tell you with all seriousness that this notion, in a modern American context is complete and utter bullshit. No offense. :3
Also...
Maybe in certain places or time periods... but nowadays? In america? It's more like a form of exploitation against men and robs them of their freedom.
And, again, as a divorced male in America... thank the goddess I was broke, had a prenup & didn't knock her up. If we had had a kid it woulda been an even bigger nightmare.
Oh, and I'll take the fine. I don't fancy being hit with a weapon that can break the sound barrier.
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Having been married, I can tell you with all seriousness that this notion, in a modern American context is complete and utter bullshit. No offense. :3
None taken :) My reply was more & less befitting of a male-dominant society which has been the case for thousands of years until about less then a century ago. Such a society is in my mind completely disgusting as we were all created equal. But of course the human ego doesn't conform to the laws of nature (or god for that matter). And it's true that there are a lot of women "gold diggers" out there that just want a free piece of the pie without working honestly for it. But getting back to the Djinn case, I wouldn't mind marrying one if me and said female Djinn we completely understanding of eachother and in love.
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Agreed. ;D
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Forget the understanding. I bet sex with her would be out of this world!
Are harlequin babies really the offspring between a human and a djinn? I mean, doesn't anyone else think they look like fleshy Lava Golems? Fire and mud, y'know.
... Just sayin'.
(not gonna post a pic of a harlequin baby here out of decency. ... YES I CAN BE DECENT SOMETIMES!)
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Are harlequin babies really the offspring between a human and a djinn? I mean, doesn't anyone else think they look like fleshy Lava Golems? Fire and mud, y'know.
What if you were to wish to your Djinn for the baby to be more normal in appearance? I think it could work out then.
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Wow how did I miss this thread? Maybe because I mostly hang in the general castlevania discussion forum.
To answer the first question, no I don't think you can willingly marry a Djinn, unless he's a good Djinn. Most of muslims believe that Djinns can either be good or bad.Just like humans.I think someone pointed this before. Djinns are not considered like demons in Christianity. They are on the same level as humans, they aren't good or bad by nature, plus they can be Muslims, because Mohammed was sent to Humans and Djinns alike. They are said to live in a different plane, but they can interact with our world. Not only can they use magic, but they have supposedly the power to possess a human body. Those who do that are considered bad Djinns, because they deceive people and cause them harm in most cases. There's a lot of stories about women and men marrying a Djinn without knowing it.In some cases, they( the Djinns) are not evil. It's possible then for a man or a woman to continue on living with a Djinn, if there's love of course. I never heard of a human and a Djinn having a baby. He'll just be half Djinn half human I guess.
Djinns were mentioned long before Islam appeared, in Iran I think. It's not a concept that Islam came with, it already existed in the folklore back in the 7th century. So it's possible for someone who isn't religious like me, to believe in Djinns because they are part of the Folklore. There's a place in Morocco where Djinns are said to gather. They also have kings apparently. The most popular Djinn is Shamharoush. Djinns are often linked to the practice of Witchcraft, because of their incredible powers. Even though Witchcraft is condemned in Islam, it is still practiced in the Muslim world. While it can cause you to be whipped in Saudi Arabia, it's not the case in my country. That just shows that there's no unity in the practice of Islam , that there's as many schools in Islam as in Christianity, or even more.Some are more tolerant than others, and some aren't at all .I know it's pretty hard for westerners to accept this, because it supposes that you'll have to treat each country differently, which is too tiring.
And about all those people who are becoming Islamist all of a sudden, it's because they are weak and take the easy route imo . It's so easy for a man to find the answers he's looking for in schools like Wahhabism. In the women's case, I think it has more to do with trying to fit in society. One thing that I don't like about Islam is that gives too much importance to appearances. In theory it shouldn't, but then there's thousands of possible interpretations. So every scholar, every person has his own opinion about a certain matter in Islam.
My point is that most of people think that a woman who wears a Hijab is a good woman, a good Muslim, independently of her actions. Same for someone who goes to the Mosque every day. He'll be praised and honored, even if he treats his relatives badly. I think it's our main problem right now. We give too much importance to appearances, and we are easily deceived by scholars.In most of the Muslim countries, we don't encourage people to think on their own, and argue about matters connected to Islam and the Prophet. Like the depictions of Muhammad. They are banned because God says that we shouldn't try to copy nature, God's work. Everything that falls under this category is banned, or highly reprehensible . But it was never officially said in Ku'ran that we shouldn't depict Muhammed specifically. It's more like a tacit rule, that most of Muslim countries agreed upon, except some countries like Iran, Turkey etc where Muhammad was depicted,especially during the Middle ages, because they decided to overlook that aspect of Islam and depict nature if and when necessary.
If we're not allowed to think on our own, how are we supposed to see truth, to make the difference between what is real and what is fake in a person, to avoid being deceived? I think we should find the answer, and pretty quick, if we don't want to have more and more Islamists and to a certain extent , terrorists.Because not all Islamists are terrorists :D . Some of them are "moderate".If you think about it,each person is the moderate of another person.
I hope my post wasn't too long , and that it helped answer some questions, or just give you an idea about how things are in Islam. I'm not a scholar, I'm just a person who lives in a Muslim country and has received a Islamic education. It's just my opinion about different matters.