Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => Hardcore Gaming 101 => Topic started by: The Last Belmont on December 09, 2007, 01:53:40 AM
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I just popped in Adventures of Bayou Billy into my nes for the first time in probably about 5 years and gave it a go. I got about halfway through level 4 as usual and game overed. I remember nintendo pushing that game like crazy back in the day and everybody I know had it, but nobody I know of ever finished it w/out cheats. I was thinking about it and I can't think of any game made recently that is hard like that, all the ones that come to mind are at least 12 years old. Do you guys think the gaming companies now are making games easier or are there still games coming out that yall feel are almost impossible? I always loved the challenge of Billy and had lots of fun w/ it, if I could just pass those damn driving levels I could probably finish it as I'm crazy fast with the zapper and have completely mastered the hand to hand combat.
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Check out Contra 4.
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I miss games being difficult.
It could be argued that due to memory restrictions back in the day, games had to be made hard for longevity reasons.
These days we "apparently" dont play games to be challenged but to enjoy a story, though I don't agree with that in the least or there wouldn't be a retro scene or a virtual console.
admittedly you will get the odd - and i mean very odd - difficult game, the likes of ninja gaiden for example and metal slug/ikaruga are some recent examples i can think of.
dont get me wrong, lots of games these days can be challenging but not many of them are truly ones that make you want to slam your controller through the wall after you just died for the 46th time in five minutes.
I'm not sure if games companies are intentionally making games easier or not, but if they are you're more likely to finish it then go buy something else that lines the pockets of the developers and publishers.
I think they also cater for the casual gamer which makes up a large majority of the gaming culture these days. casual gamers want something arcadey - quick/easy to get into/not much thinking etc so the developers cater for those people as they will get the greatest profit from that sector.
perhaps i am being cynial but i believe games are becoming easier due to the sole reason of money and greed.
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Another thing I never see anybody bring up is that the ridiculous difficulty of older games was an obvious byproduct of gaming's arcade roots. Arcade games were made difficult to eat your quarters, and I guess it just kinda became the norm back then, even when the developers were working on home consoles. Just like how so many games had scores and timers when each generally served no purpose. Why did Super Mario Bros. 3 keep track of your score? Why did they feel that Castlevania's stages needed a timer? Why was Ninja Gaiden so difficult? Arcade roots.
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Battletoads, Ghouls N Ghosts, Contra, Gradius, and Ninja Gaiden are all considered to be the toughest games out there. And they all originated in the arcade. Since then, though, the games have gotten MUCH more difficult than they ever were in the arcade (well, except Gradius 2 and 3 :P).
Games are WAY TOO easy nowadays. If it can't be beaten in 2 days it's too tough for today's gamer.
And if I hear one more time about Halo's legendary mode, I will shoot someone. I want a genuinely tough game. Not a game where the only way to make it challenging is to make it one hit, you're dead. In an FPS, quick reflexes, enemy placement, level design, massive amounts of enemies and weapon strategy make the games tough. Advanced AI and minimal health just masks a shallow game.
We shouldn't have to pump the games up to max difficulty to get a real challenge from a game.
Speaking of FPS, you all should try Action Doom. It's Contra with the Doom engine! :) Nice and tough.
Even if Contra 4 had more than one hit before you die, Normal and Hard mode would both give any new age gamer a run for their money.
In short: We need more games like Contra 4 and Ultimate Ghouls and Ghosts.
And we absolutely need a NEW 2D Ninja Gaiden game.
On a side note, I just ordered the Parodius, Twinbee and Salamander collections for the PSP. More tough as nails difficulty is coming my way.
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Gamers these days are a bunch of pansy kids that cry when a slight challenge is thrown at them.
And yes, I was playing Ninja Gaiden 2 last night on my Wii, and I can only get through the final stage 1 out of 4 times, and when I do get through it, I get my ass handed to me on a platter served over linguini by Jaquio.
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And yes, I was playing Ninja Gaiden 2 last night on my Wii, and I can only get through the final stage 1 out of 4 times, and when I do get through it, I get my ass handed to me on a platter served over linguini by Jaquio.
I feel your pain....oh do i feel it. at least the game is nice to you and shuffles through some of the music tracks in the game for that level.
It sad but true....my brother makes fun of me all the time when i beat a game quickly. says im a waste of money. (in context of the game being a gift) As much as i advocate high difficulty in games nothing...and i mean nothing...should be on level with Ultimate Ghouls n' Ghosts.
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Yea, there are very few games that are as hard as the old ones. New games tend to act like they are difficult to make them seem cooler (GoW had a mode called hardcore I think...lame) But they can't compare to the old games like Military Madness (I need to study so I can beat it, Revenge of Shinobi, Ecco the Dolphin (more frustrating than hard), Bram Stoker's Dracula on hard mode (wth), etc. For some games I think it is good that they aren't that hard, rpgs and shooters, but I still wish they were a lot harder. The only game I can think of now that reflects the old hardness is the hard mode lv. 1 in PoR.
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Games these days are just kinda... long.
Though Devil May Cry 3 was tough, and Shinobi on ps2 was kinda hard too. And Ninja Gaiden on xbox. Also, Contra: Shattered Soldier.
I actually get my ass handed to me more in Devil May Cry than in the NES Ninja Gaidens. I guess it all depends on what you grew up on.
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How could anyone LIKE a difficult game? I don't want it to be a cakewalk, but I don't want it to be difficult? Haven't you heard the story of how I broke my GBA SP because a difficult game?
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In Reply To #10
Difficult is fine, frustrating is not.
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In Reply To #10
This coming from the man who decides not to play any other games than CV titles...
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Games are WAY TOO easy nowadays. If it can't be beaten in 2 days it's too tough for today's gamer.
Damn right!
I remember beating Metroid Zero Mission on the same day I got it on midnight!
In Reply To #12
Maybe man is not the appropiate term..
Maybe he's still younger..like those who like to play average games like Pokemon or something else..I guess..
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Yeah games are way too easy these days. I think games still need the option of difficulty and not every game has that. One thing I love about the Metal Gear Solid series is that there is a difficulty level for when you get spotted its a game over
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In Reply To #10
This coming from the man who decides not to play any other games than CV titles...
Lol, yeah that's true. But the game that broke my GBA SP was the classic NES series CV. ;D :o ::)
In Reply To #12
Maybe man is not the appropiate term..
Maybe he's still younger..like those who like to play average games like Pokemon or something else..I guess..
No, I'm not that young as to play Pokemon, but not exactly a man yet either, as I'm almost in high school. :)
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In Reply To #5
I've had my Salamander, Twinbee, and Parodius Portable games for over a year now, the Parodius games are supposed to be the arcade versions, yet the rank in all 4 games in the collection (Parodius from the MSX matches the old MSX version's difficulty) none seem to have quite as high a rank as the original arcade versions did (no port could seem to match the rank, or difficulty, of the original arcade version), though Sexy Parodius near the end can lead to many a deaths, good luck. ;)
The other two games match the arcade in difficulty, Salamander Portable even throws in the Japanese version of Xexex, it's like having a bonus shooter, and it too is pretty difficult, you'll love it (I know I do). These old games didn't hold your hand throughout, you were pretty much on your own. :D
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How could anyone LIKE a difficult game? I don't want it to be a cakewalk, but I don't want it to be difficult? Haven't you heard the story of how I broke my GBA SP because a difficult game?
I like being challenged, I don't like spending uber cash on a game then beat it and do everything in like 1 day. I prefer games that don't have a lives system or allow you infinite continues and you get to start on the level you left off. Hard is good, making you play what you've already mastered over again is not.
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The reason games aren't as hard anymore, atleast one of the reasons, is that the characer you play have more ability now. Back then you were really limited, like Ryu can only slash and use a subweapon. The dodging was limited to jumping too. Now you're in 3d, you have more places to evade to and more equipment to help you.
The thing is... AI didn't improve as dramatically as character moility.
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In Reply To #17
I was sort of talking about DMC3.
People just don't think it's easy.
But if you do - congratulations! You're not human.
Though somehow I doubt you're telling the truth.
Or maybe you mean it gets easier after you've played it for hours. But that is you getting better at it, not the game being a cakewalk.
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Lol, yeah that's true. But the game that broke my GBA SP was the classic NES series CV. ;D :o ::)
...touch
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In Reply To #17
I was sort of talking about DMC3.
People just don't think it's easy.
But if you do - congratulations! You're not human.
Oh 3, yeah 3 was pretty tough and took some time to finish, but it doesn't take more than probably a few weeks at most if you keep at it. The difficulty's just not balanced well, which makes some levels easy and some levels tough. If it had been balanced throughout it wouldn't have been that bad.
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I can beat Dante Must Die mode with Vergil pretty easily (EXCEPT FOR THAT DAMN CHESS BATTLE).
Anyway, the hardest game I've ever played has to be Gradius III (Arcade). That crap just gets too insane at times. I can one life Gradius III SNES.
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Yeah, I'm trying to beat Gradius 3 currently. The end of Gradius 2 with the umpteen bosses in a row with one life was impossible enough. Gotta love that series. :P
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Someone set us up the bomb
All your difficulty are belong to us!
Make your time.
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In Reply To #10
Difficult is fine, frustrating is not.
totally....just look at all snk bosses
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i remember when the challenge of games weren't 'getting x item' or 'getting level 99', it was all about making that one jump, destroying the core, hunting the duck...
games these days just don't seem as rewarding when all is said and done.
Yeah I miss the good old days, it's hard for me to get into alot of new games especially the new rpg's they just aren't as addicting and enthralling as the older ones.
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I think today's gamers are not really interested in "getting better" at the game. They're more about the story or playing online.
I love to get better at games, especially ones like Contra 4. Topping their high scores, beating them with one credit/life, but in the end, only other gamers like yourself won't see you as a nerd. ("Playing against a soulless computer? what a waste!")
I don't care what they think, though. Lately I've been playing a lot of Contra 4, Reaxxion, Arkanoid DS, Puzzle Quest, Every Extend Extra Extreme, and Geometry Wars Galaxies. I'm so addicted to them I have left games like Mass Effect, Assassin's Creed, Call of Duty 4 collecting dust.
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always been a fan of higher difficulty levels.
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Is it just me who thinks that games should me FUN instaed of hard ? Ofcourse the challenge is a part of it , but it doesnt has to be insanely hard right ? When I talk to my friends almost all of them say that games should be really hard, but I dont agree with them. I used to feel like i had to play on the hardest diffficulty modes cause otherwise Id feel so useless.
HAVE FUN WHEN YOU PLAY THATS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING !! >:(
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Depends on your perspective. For some people, hard = fun. I wouldn't necessarily agree.
And someone mentioned PoR lv1 mode as equal to the challenge of old school games. Uhm, no. Bad example. Even at lv1, the game still lets you use Ancient Armor (guaranteed 10 hits), healing items (abundant, and with Ancient Armor basically means = no challenge) as well as the Miser Ring (which means that if you exploited Wind's quest glitch and sold a buncha Thief Rings, you'll get an instant 99 ATK boost). So in the end, lv1 mode is just a big failure.
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Here's how I roll: if normal is too easy, crank up the difficulty. Exactly what I just did for DMC4.
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Well, I dislike such things like "Uhh.... I died more then twice now.... what a sh*t game!"
Since they started this CasualPlayer crap (which, in my opinion, is Nintendos fault, nevertheless, I like some of their games), most of the gamers today seem to get softy oO At least those I know...
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I completly agree that games nowdays are too easy, the only modern game that I can think of that was at least a bit challengeing is Ninja gaiden, took me 5 days to get 100% unlike to standard 12 hours or so all the other games take.
This is also why I made my homebrew so hard, basicly the hero is on equal grounds with the other enemies so you could kinda compare standard enemies to CV bosses :P
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In Reply To #13
So what? You need to be a man to play Contra? You need to be a kid to play Pokemon? I think not.
Anyways, Battletoads(SNES) was pretty damn hard. Battle Toads+Double Dragon was far easier than the first SNES Battletoads, but I think it was also way more fun.
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Games have gotten much easier over the years and its because back in the NES days there were many limitations. For example, in Castlevania 1 you had a few frames of animation or so on Simon, if you got hit you flung backwards like a yard and usually into a bottomless pit, jumping was stiff, your character moved stiff, the controls were solid but nothing was smooth or fluid like it is in Symphony of the Night or something similar. Not to mention that they had to make CV1 a hard game to begin with but those limitations made it unbearable at points. On that note CV1 was one of those games I wanted to break my NES controller over. Idk how many times I tried beating that game it took me over a hundred tries or more to get past death alone and by luck. Thankfully now I do know the secrets on how to dispose of him but then I didn't. Actually Castlevania III is no cakewalk either but it was better balanced. Ninja Gaiden 1 and 2 are hard as hell and I have never beaten either of them. I have gotten as close as you can get to winning them only to die and then shut my game off in frustration.
Insane difficulty is not what I would categorize as what makes a game "fun" especially when its forced on you. A game's default difficulty level in a series like Castlevania should be challenging but not too challenging. I mean the bosses should give you a run for your money unlike in Harmony of Dissonance where you would just get started on the boss and it would die and you would be like "what, why did it die so quickly?". I am gonna say Portrait of Ruin sort of got it right with the boss fights where if you don't figure out the bosses pattern right away your screwed.
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Most gamers these days are little insects that don't know how to overcome any type of challenge. Lately, they've been making all game sequals easier. Devil May Cry 4 is guilty of this what with putting mass green orbs around all the levels, and a big green orb right before a boss fight.
GTAIV is also guilty of this with the new GPS thing on your radar, holding your hand throughout the entire game. Half the fun of the previous GTA games was figuring out how to get to the little blip on the map on your own. Now it's just "Ooh! Don't worry my little baby! We'll hold your hand through this game too!"
Pathetic.
The only game series that comes to mind that still has a great difficulty is the Gradius series.
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In Reply To #31
Yes, they should be fun, so if you like hard difficulty, good for you! I personally hate it, but thats just me.
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In Reply To #10
Difficult is fine, frustrating is not.
..and the line between these is a fine one.
PoR's hardest difficulty, for example, was pretty frustrating.
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Is it just me who thinks that games should me FUN instaed of hard ? Ofcourse the challenge is a part of it , but it doesnt has to be insanely hard right ? When I talk to my friends almost all of them say that games should be really hard, but I dont agree with them. I used to feel like i had to play on the hardest diffficulty modes cause otherwise Id feel so useless.
For me it's not a matter of feeling useless, I like that feeling of accomplishment and the thrill of going through it on the hardest mode. God of War for example
to me is at it's best on God Mode. (though I've never finished the 300 on 1 clone fight on that mode)
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Ooh! You want a great game on it's hardest setting? Play Devil May Cry 3: Special Edition on Dante Must Die Mode as Vergil.
Most fun I've ever had with a challenge!
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In Reply To #42
I don't find those conditions very challenging. Dpends on the costume though. I always play as Super Currupt Vergil, and I always remain in Devil state. An instant Nelo Angelo Mode!
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In Reply To #42
I don't find those conditions very challenging. Dpends on the costume though. I always play as Super Currupt Vergil, and I always remain in Devil state. An instant Nelo Angelo Mode!
Well.. That's why you don't find those conditions challenging. Try doing it with regular 'ol blue coat Vergil.
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In Reply To #44
Well, I can't control his Yamato, so thats no good. :(
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In Reply To #31
Yes, they should be fun, so if you like hard difficulty, good for you! I personally hate it, but thats just me.
I love taking on slews of enemies all trying to kill me and dodging their every move and totally decimating them. If it's too easy and they don't do anything and your just a superstrong beast it takes the fun out of it. I played Goldenaxe 2 one time with an invincibility cheat and will never do it again, it was like torture. Although I can understand games being too hard, if you spend 10 years on level 1 then something is seriously wrong with the game. My beef with hard games that are well made and would interest me but don't ins't the difficulty it's the continue system or lack there of. I prefer unlimited continues that restart you at the beginning of the level you died at when you game over. Limiting the amount of continues just creates hours of doing the same levels over and over to get to the point you were having trouble. On really difficult games it can be a real slap in the face too.
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There are still tough games being made, but they're few and far between. Contra 4 is a great example. MAN that game is tough, a lot tougher than the older games were. I got it for Christmas and still haven't finished it on Normal or Hard. :P
I agree with the guy who said that Difficult is fun, Frustrating is not. I think that depends on the game though. If you like Contra 4, then you'll find it difficult, if you're not into COntra, then you'll just find it frustrating.
Right now, I'm playing the Splatterhouse games, and they're tough, but it's a good kind of tough. It gets annoying to have to try to beat the same boss again and again but it all has to do with tactics. The old CV games are like this too. Once you get your tactics down and know how to get thru every situation, the game is a snap.
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If you think any of you have ever played the hardest game,
your wrong!!,
try this one: http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/422675
If any of you guys can do this game without even dying once,
then you can call yourself the ultimate god of sidescrolling platformer
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In Reply To #48
OMG, I'm gonna kill the persoin who made this! Its worse than the impossible quiz!
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In Reply To #48
OMG, I'm gonna kill the persoin who made this! Its worse than the impossible quiz!
It's not hard, you just have to know where the traps are. Just like the title sais it's unfair not hard. :P If you wanna go hardcore, go play Silver Surfer on the nes. Even touch the walls and you're dead :o
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It's not hard, you just have to know where the traps are. Just like the title sais it's unfair not hard. :P If you wanna go hardcore, go play Silver Surfer on the nes. Even touch the walls and you're dead :o
Yeah silver surfer is nuts, but I can beat the fire guy. ;D
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I'm going through a classic game phase starting with Castlevania (the 1st one). I managed to get to the level where you fight death and after a billion tries of re-doing the level, I finally won! I miss that rewarding "HELL YES, I WON!" feeling after beating a tough level! I wish more recent games could still have kept that. Next step, Dragon Warrior! :)
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problem is, people want longer lasting experiences. not myself personally, but in general. with that comes easier gameplay and game saves.
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Hey, what do ya know, I just heard that Order of Ecclesia is going to be made easier than previous DS titles! As if they weren't already easy enough?! >:(
It just goes to show how pathetic it is how people can't handle a challenge. They should be making it harder! It's not the company's responsibility to make sure games are easy enough for people at the emotional level of a five year old can beat the game so they don't cry and go pout in the corner! They should make them so hard that people like that get frustrated, break their DS in half, and then have to buy new ones! The company makes more money! ;D
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Hey, what do ya know, I just heard that Order of Ecclesia is going to be made easier than previous DS titles! As if they weren't already easy enough?! >:(
can you post a link cuz if that's the case I won't even bother picking it up.
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It's not the company's responsibility to make sure games are easy enough for people at the emotional level of a five year old can beat the game so they don't cry and go pout in the corner! They should make them so hard that people like that get frustrated, break their DS in half, and then have to buy new ones! The company makes more money! ;D
Or they would just stop buying consoles, handhelds, and games because they are just too frustrating.
:P That's why I still think there should be Easy, Normal, and Hard mode.
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CoD4 on veteran had some tough spots, especially Mile High Club. But so many people are into multi-player these days. I don't think it's a case where people don't want to get better at a game, it's just multi-player skills do not always transfer to playing against the AI (especially true in fighting games). There are alot of single player games that are still very easy, ho9wever. I agree with the comment about lives and limited continues, that is more annoying than challenging.
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CoD4 on veteran had some tough spots, especially Mile High Club. But so many people are into multi-player these days. I don't think it's a case where people don't want to get better at a game, it's just multi-player skills do not always transfer to playing against the AI (especially true in fighting games). There are alot of single player games that are still very easy, ho9wever. I agree with the comment about lives and limited continues, that is more annoying than challenging.
There was a Curse of Darkness 4? I didn't even know they had a 2 and 3. Why did they make sequels to such a shoddy game?
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In Reply To #55
Sorry, I can't seem to find the site where I read that, which could mean
A. It IS true, but I can't find it
B. It was just a rumor
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i read a maagazine scan where iga stated someone advised him to make the games easier to make them accessible, but he admits even he thinks they're too easy. so if anything he might actually make it harder.
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Maybe game companies are making the games easier to appeal to more people.
Of course, there still are some pretty tough games. Contra 4...um...yeah.
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He damn well better make them more challenging! Castlevania was originally a very hard game! Then, the series goes on and they start getting wicked easy! You can go into a boss fight with an attitude of, "Well, I have 9 high potions! There's no way I can lose!", which is why I try to use a minimum amount of potions, because it makes the game too easy! Grr, Iga! DO SOMETHING! STOP THE MADNESS!!