Castlevania Dungeon Forums

Off Topic => Off Topic => Topic started by: Belmont Stakes on February 12, 2012, 06:16:24 AM

Title: What do you believe is true the devil or the ego
Post by: Belmont Stakes on February 12, 2012, 06:16:24 AM
I have been thinking about this subject for some time. I have a bit of passing interest in pisseyecology and I wonder what you guys think about the subject of narcissism and its roots in culture, religion and philosophy. This post is a spin off and tangent from the my dad is a racist post http://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/index.php/topic,4531.msg94446.html#msg94446. (http://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/index.php/topic,4531.msg94446.html#msg94446.) As the topic implies what do you believe is really the truth? Which one really exists? My own belief is the second one gives rise to the first.
Title: Re: What do you believe is true the devil or the ego
Post by: X on February 12, 2012, 09:40:34 AM
I feel it is the Human Ego (biological identity) that gives rise to thoughts and ideas about what evil is and where it comes from. The Ego is of our finite minds; limited in it's thinking and believes it knows everything if given the chance to think so. The Devil never existed prior to Jesus' teachings and only came about during the time of Emperor Constantine and saint Paul (Three centuries after Christ). They were the sole proprietors of this twisted concept along with other biblical things. It's interesting to note that one of the original blueprints for the creation of the Devil is the Greek star constellation; Capricorn. I myself am a Capricorn so I do find the whole Devil thing to be a slap in the face somewhat. But even before the Devil came along there has been numerous explanations as to what evil really is and where it originates. A book I read; A History of the Devil, goes into a detailed analysis about many possible origins of evil from a purely philosophical point of view of cultures all over the world. But in the end what it all boils down to is humanity's own ego. Properly controlled and disciplined the ego can help us given the right situations, but if not controlled, the ego becomes the very manipulative and feeds the person feelings, thoughts and ideas that will make others believe that something is horribly wrong with that person. For a really good example of the Ego in action go see Star Trek: ToS episode "The Enemy Within". Other great references come from all the despots and dictators that have come and gone throughout the ages. They are also a great source of study what it comes to one's own Ego.
Title: Re: What do you believe is true the devil or the ego
Post by: Abnormal Freak on February 12, 2012, 10:42:57 AM
Quote from: X on February 12, 2012, 09:40:34 AM
The Devil never existed prior to Jesus' teachings and only came about during the time of Emperor Constantine and saint Paul (Three centuries after Christ).

Paul was three centuries after Christ? Josephus would like to have a word with you. ;p Unless you simply meant Constantine, in which case that's a poorly structured sentence.

And Jesus said that the Devil is Baal (hence Beelzebub), who obviously was worshiped long before Jesus was born.

I believe in a physical devil, the fallen angel Lucifer. Though I also believe in the fallen nature of man, that we're all born into sin because of the disobedience of Adam and Eve. Thus, wicked acts aren't necessarily the doing of the devil, though he performs only wicked acts and can goad believers and unbelievers to fall into traps of sin.

Dunno if anybody cares, but I wrote a poem that kinda deals with the issue you're asking about. ;p

http://www.variedcelluloid.net/dominique/unman.html (http://www.variedcelluloid.net/dominique/unman.html)
Title: Re: What do you believe is true the devil or the ego
Post by: PFG9000 on February 12, 2012, 10:50:50 AM
Holy Cats, Freak, I never thought you believed that.  That sums up my beliefs on the devil too.
Title: Re: What do you believe is true the devil or the ego
Post by: Dracula9 on February 12, 2012, 12:19:59 PM
This is a tricky one.
Since good and evil are truly relative and perceptive terms, I find it very hard to believe that there is a true, absolute good and a true, absolute evil. Where one group might see something as good, others might see it as evil. This creates more tension, in my opinion, than any debate over the existence of God or the Devil. Actually, I think that this opinionated conflict is either unknown or unmentioned, and is the very root of the 'greater power' arguments.

That isn't to say that I don't believe in anything; I do believe in God, just not in the manner in which he is portrayed so widely. my beliefs of the relativity of good and evil disproves the Christian teachings to me because the Christian faith, and the Catholic Church in particular, have done many a foul deed in the past under the pretense of justice or divine providence. The Crusades, for instance, were a mass slaughter of innocents under the gist of "because their holy stuff should be OUR holy stuff," and those that fought back were branded as evil, sacrilegious heretics who were either hunted and killed or exiled. One can preach "this is good, this is bad," but when they contradict themselves and do that bad and say it's good, they fall victim to the egotism of the true believer; that one can do no wrong if he or she is willed to do it by God or is repentant of his or her predefined sins.

The ego comes into play when a particular belief, however humble or true in its message, is contradicted by the actions of its followers. Those who will abuse the standing and power of a long-rooted faith will often justify themselves with the beliefs they are slowly killing. It's being able to get away with anything, and play the "it's God's Will" card or the "the Devil made me do it!" card. Either way, the original meaning(s) of the religion or belief are screwed over because of the egos of a few pious assholes.
Title: Re: What do you believe is true the devil or the ego
Post by: uzo on February 12, 2012, 12:45:34 PM
Quote from: PFG9000 on February 12, 2012, 10:50:50 AM
Holy Cats, Freak, I never thought you believed that.  That sums up my beliefs on the devil too.

I third this.

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled, was convince the world he doesn't exist.

There are some interesting alternate theories and quirks about the devil too, which I may share sometime later.
Title: Re: What do you believe is true the devil or the ego
Post by: A-Yty on February 12, 2012, 02:05:21 PM
The devil is as real as your imagination makes him. A convenient way to project human evil into a separate entity. Even if devil were a relentless corruptor and tormentor of souls, he could never be as evil as a human being at its worst.
Title: Re: What do you believe is true the devil or the ego
Post by: Abnormal Freak on February 12, 2012, 03:00:47 PM
Quote from: PFG9000 on February 12, 2012, 10:50:50 AM
Holy Cats, Freak, I never thought you believed that.  That sums up my beliefs on the devil too.

I'm the religious one of ICVD. :p I used to bring it up on occasion, but now I mostly stick to dick and fart jokes. Keeps the peace.
Title: Re: What do you believe is true the devil or the ego
Post by: X on February 12, 2012, 04:49:03 PM
Quote
Paul was three centuries after Christ? Josephus would like to have a word with you. ;p Unless you simply meant Constantine, in which case that's a poorly structured sentence.

I'll understand if you doubt me, however I've done my share of research that wasn't done behind the closed doors of any church (or the Vatican for that matter). I've looked in books, notes and watched documentaries about how Christianity got it's start. Saint Paul was a self-proclaimed Disciple of Jesus and there's the fact that they lived three whole centuries apart from one-another. Another fact to back this up is that both Paul and Constantine were the ones to usher in Pauline (Pauls's version of) Christianity together throughout the Roman world. So unless Paul is semi-immortal, then there is no way he could personally or possibly know Jesus. Besides, the Head Disciple that Jesus chose to replace him was Mary Magdalene. And here's another "Church-rocker". She was his wife and the mother of his children.

When it comes to Religion, I ask questions. The BIG questions that no-one else wants to or is afraid to and I dig and dig till all the secrets are brought up to light. I don't care if people castrate me, segregate me or threaten me with death for this as I do it for my own justification. God gave me a mind of my own along with his most important gift called 'Curiosity' and I'll use it how I see fit. God knows this and yet he hasn't sent down his so-called wrath to kill me. Maybe it's because She loves me and understands me unconditionally like she does with every other human being out there.
Title: Re: What do you believe is true the devil or the ego
Post by: Kale on February 12, 2012, 07:32:21 PM
Quote from: A-Yty on February 12, 2012, 02:05:21 PM
The devil is as real as your imagination makes him. A convenient way to project human evil into a separate entity. Even if devil were a relentless corruptor and tormentor of souls, he could never be as evil as a human being at its worst.

One could argue that human being at their worst is the devil's work.
Title: Re: What do you believe is true the devil or the ego
Post by: Abnormal Freak on February 12, 2012, 08:49:16 PM
Quote from: X on February 12, 2012, 04:49:03 PM
I'll understand if you doubt me, however I've done my share of research that wasn't done behind the closed doors of any church (or the Vatican for that matter). I've looked in books, notes and watched documentaries about how Christianity got it's start. Saint Paul was a self-proclaimed Disciple of Jesus and there's the fact that they lived three whole centuries apart from one-another. Another fact to back this up is that both Paul and Constantine were the ones to usher in Pauline (Pauls's version of) Christianity together throughout the Roman world. So unless Paul is semi-immortal, then there is no way he could personally or possibly know Jesus. Besides, the Head Disciple that Jesus chose to replace him was Mary Magdalene. And here's another "Church-rocker". She was his wife and the mother of his children.

:rollseyes: The old bupkis continues to spread. I haven't bothered to look into much of that myself, but my brother who's also an extremely inquisitive person who knows well his history and studies it hard has come to the conclusion that it's all bunk.

Which it is.
Title: Re: What do you believe is true the devil or the ego
Post by: Inccubus on February 12, 2012, 10:02:49 PM
Haven't read the whole thread, but I will say this: Narcissism (ego), on my ex's part is the root cause of my divorce last year and all the subsequent drama she caused us and our mutual friends.
Title: Re: What do you believe is true the devil or the ego
Post by: A-Yty on February 13, 2012, 05:00:25 AM
Quote from: Kale on February 12, 2012, 07:32:21 PM
One could argue that human being at their worst is the devil's work.

As a kid, there was a short time I thought vampires were real.
Title: Re: What do you believe is true the devil or the ego
Post by: Opium on February 13, 2012, 05:18:57 AM
I don't believe the devil exists any more than I believe in the tooth fairy, unicorns, leprechauns, or any god(s).  I believe that human beings create fictional deities for several reasons, the most obvious of which is man's (the ego's) attempt to explain nature. So to answer the question: ego exists, the devil does not. The devil pretty much personifies evil, which is practically synonymous with fear.  I guess one could also argue about whether or not evil exists, but only if the definition were agreed upon.  I believe that anything could be described as evil, as any beholder can describe anything however they please since it's a matter of opinion.  So if evil is just an adjective, then of course it exists. But I think that most people who argue for the existence of evil believe it is an actual force or energy in the universe which can affect the physical world, and some even believe that there is a deity which is the source of that energy (the devil).  I don't see any evidence that evil, or good, exists as an actual force or energy.
I've also heard people argue that good and evil exist as forces which have some kind of balance, like positive and negative.  Again I have to say 'where's the evidence?'  And even if one did actually exist, that is no argument at all for the existence of the other.  Energy doesn't have to have some kind of polar opposite.  Like light and darkness -light actually exists, darkness does not.  Darkness is just a word which describes the absence of light, just as cold simply describes the absence of heat.  So if someone wishes to believe in good, they don't have to necessarily believe in evil.  Sounds like a much happier outlook, anyways.
Title: Re: What do you believe is true the devil or the ego
Post by: A-Yty on February 13, 2012, 05:28:52 AM
If darkness is the absence of light, is life the absence of death..?
Title: Re: What do you believe is true the devil or the ego
Post by: beingthehero on February 13, 2012, 07:56:36 AM
Quote from: A-Yty on February 13, 2012, 05:00:25 AM
As a kid, there was a short time I thought vampires were real.

I thought you still do...
Title: Re: What do you believe is true the devil or the ego
Post by: Kale on February 13, 2012, 09:35:17 AM
Quote from: A-Yty on February 13, 2012, 05:00:25 AM
As a kid, there was a short time I thought vampires were real.

So, you don't believe that the devil exist. That's great? Others do. I hear a lot about people shoving their religions in others faces, but you know, atheists do the exact same thing, and possibly more than Christians do it. And of course both people belittle the other as if either can prove or disprove it. Can christians/jews/muslim prove God/Allah exist? Probably not. Can Atheist prove that they don't? Probably not.

So it's best not to make fun of people belief by belittling it with stupid "humorous" analogies.
Title: Re: What do you believe is true the devil or the ego
Post by: Mooning Freddy on February 13, 2012, 10:34:16 AM
On one of my courses, I was required to read about Egoism in the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. It was quite an interesting read.

The most interesting part about it was the issue of Psychological Egoism. It's basically a psychological argument that ALL actions people perform in their lives are ultimately selfish. According the basic idea, altruism is a made-up concept that does not truly exist in life, as for every altruistic action that a man does he receives something in return. Be it friendship, gratitude, or even the most basic good feeling of doing a good deed. They set the most extreme example of altruistic action- a soldier covering a grenade with his body to save his friends. In principle, he cannot receive any gratitude for this action of self-sacrifice.
Nevertheless, Psychological Egoism claims his action is egoistic because by doing that the soldier avoids the shame in not doing it.

So you see, if everything we do is egoistic, does the devil really matter? lol...
Also, those are great, I really love those:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: What do you believe is true the devil or the ego
Post by: Abnormal Freak on February 13, 2012, 12:07:56 PM
Quote from: Kale on February 13, 2012, 09:35:17 AM
And of course both people belittle the other as if either can prove or disprove it. Can christians/jews/muslim prove God/Allah exist? Probably not. Can Atheist prove that they don't? Probably not.

That's the funniest thing about it: God can neither be proven nor disproven with the use of science and so forth, so it amuses me to find people argue that it's a scientific fact that God does not exist, as if they can use mathematics to see beyond the reaches of space and see that God is not there. If you're certain in your own personal life that God does not exist, fine; but stating it's an indisputable fact? Come now. The human mind is so finite, it couldn't possibly understand everything pertaining to life and the universe.
Title: Re: What do you believe is true the devil or the ego
Post by: A-Yty on February 13, 2012, 12:26:45 PM
Makes no difference whether or not God exists.
Title: Re: What do you believe is true the devil or the ego
Post by: uzo on February 13, 2012, 12:41:43 PM
Quote from: A-Yty on February 13, 2012, 12:26:45 PM
Makes no difference whether or not God exists.

This is exactly right. Jesus' teachings stand on their own, even without the religious component as a fall back.
Title: Re: What do you believe is true the devil or the ego
Post by: crisis on February 13, 2012, 02:10:53 PM
Michael Scott about God (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZCOf_4wYQE#ws)

debate over lol


but seriously, can God make a stone that is so heavy, that He cannot lift it?


I personally believe that there is some order to the universe, and that there is a higher state of existence that we will experience after this life on earth. A "universal consciousness," so to speak.
Title: Re: What do you believe is true the devil or the ego
Post by: uzo on February 13, 2012, 03:31:28 PM
God always seems to work within the rules of this universe when he does intervene.
Title: Re: What do you believe is true the devil or the ego
Post by: Belmont Stakes on February 13, 2012, 03:53:29 PM
My whole thing about this is simply this. If there is an agent of malevolence if he was perfect at one time what would cause him to go out of that state. The Fallen Angel did not have a devil of his own. So some would say pride or arrogance. But the problem is he was made perfect (another thing that seems to be confusing). I think there maybe a clue in the story of Narcissus. As he was an admirer of his own beauty and in as such it caused his death. I have seen an ape look at it's reflection and treat the reflection as an rival primate but after a while the animal recognizes (at least seemingly) that the rival animal it sees is itself. In as such it starts grooming itself. I also want to point out that there are a lot of physical ailments in the world but mental ones seem to still be looked on as the person is a bad seed and has a behavioral problem. If such is the case then fine but how one or more than one changes the behavior is what seems to be getting put to the back burner. Think about the laptop shooting dad's daughter. Is it wrong to say that in regards to anti social behavior that anyone of us could have ended up a psychopath? Are we more moral or just lucky?
Title: Re: What do you believe is true the devil or the ego
Post by: Abnormal Freak on February 13, 2012, 05:14:21 PM
Depends on how you would define being made "perfect." God doesn't make ugly or evil creations. But sentient beings He gives a choice to live out their lives as they choose. Defying God has its consequences, but people can do it all the same.

And that's what I mean by saying the devil isn't necessarily the force that makes people evil; evil comes out of a person's own heart and/or a desire to go against God. Lucifer wanted to be like God; he was described as the most beautiful angel. As such, he refused to worship God and turned aside, wanting to be worshiped instead. And personally, I couldn't be happier that we live under a God who allows us to decide.

"Sin" and "evil" I would define as disobedience toward God and going against/defying Him, respectively.
Title: Re: What do you believe is true the devil or the ego
Post by: Lumi Kløvstad on February 13, 2012, 05:20:27 PM
I believe that the Adversary is as real as any of us, and often he will use the ego as his sword.

Lucifer's fall is a puzzling story, as Angels are not said to possess free will (being a gift God uniquely gave to mankind). Ergo, Lucifer's fall plays into the Divine Plan in a manner I believe we as a people do not understand, nor are we particularly meant to.

For my part, I believe that facing temptation, and then overcoming it through our strength of will, makes us grow spiritually in a manner that would not otherwise occur if all we could choose was to do what God said. In that sense, Lucifer's temptations create a trial to be endured, and by doing so, we become stronger, better, and more enlightened, and therefore closer to who we are meant to be.

This is a subject I'm very passionate and intellectual about, and I love to discuss it, but for the sake of the thread, I'll keep this reply as long as it is, and no longer.

Title: Re: What do you believe is true the devil or the ego
Post by: uzo on February 13, 2012, 05:22:29 PM
Quote from: Abnormal Freak on February 13, 2012, 05:14:21 PM
I couldn't be happier that we live under a God who allows us to decide.

And welcomes us back when we screw up.
Title: Re: What do you believe is true the devil or the ego
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on February 13, 2012, 06:22:28 PM
Quote from: A-Yty on February 13, 2012, 12:26:45 PM
Makes no difference whether or not God exists.

This is what I believe.
God's existence or lack thereof does not change the good I do for myself.  I don't do it to get into a heaven after I die, and I don't do it because I'm 'God-Fearing'.
However, if a higher being/power does exist, I think it would be pleased with the kind of person I am.

I am an Agnostic.
Title: Re: What do you believe is true the devil or the ego
Post by: TheouAegis on February 13, 2012, 10:18:44 PM
What I don't understand is why everyone pushes Christianity, Catholicism, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism or Hindu in everyone else' face, and yet nobody's pushing Zoroaster's teachings. That came even before Christianity and explains where evil comes from. There's a good god and there's a bad god. Simple as that. No benevolent God with his tree-hugging son and flammable breath, nor malevolent devil bent on corrupting mankind. Well, the devil's in Zoroastrianism too, but Ahriman is much cooler than Satan.

And I don't believe in Lucifer. I read the excerpts from the Bible. Even logically it's a mistranslation or an awkward translation of a bad transliteration. If you believe in Lucifer, there's no reason to think Nyarlothep didn't write the Bible, because those passages read just like an HP Lovecraft story.
Title: Re: What do you believe is true the devil or the ego
Post by: Abnormal Freak on February 13, 2012, 10:28:11 PM
Quote from: LumiRockets on February 13, 2012, 05:20:27 PM
Lucifer's fall is a puzzling story, as Angels are not said to possess free will (being a gift God uniquely gave to mankind).

To my knowledge (and feel free to bring up an example if it exists), nowhere in canonical Scripture does it state this.

Jude 1:6 says, "And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day." Or as the KJV puts it, "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

They left their home. Willingly. Leaving what was made for them, where they belong, to dwell unnaturally elsewhere.

There is a strange quality, however, where angels in heaven gladly and willingly and obediently do God's will and worship Him without exception; I imagine there's no doubt or disobedience in them. How could Lucifer have become so prideful and then taken down a third of the angels with him? It's hard to say. But the fallen angels have no means of salvation, and the angels in heaven have no need for saving grace.

One thing Scripture would seem to imply is that the angels would love to spread the gospel to man (that Christ died for the sins of all and was raised up), but are not allowed to, being a work of the Holy Spirit in man. I Peter 1:12 says, "It was revealed to them [the prophets] that they were not serving themselves, but you, in these things which now have been announced to you through those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things into which angels long to look."

I've heard it said that this could mean they're looking down and wondering why Christians aren't being more busy in spreading the good news. The angels desire to do so, long to, and yet are unable. That's a privilege that God gave only to men and women.
Title: Re: What do you believe is true the devil or the ego
Post by: Mooning Freddy on February 14, 2012, 07:54:35 AM
Giorgio Tsoukalos on Satan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiYC58MP9RQ#ws)
Title: Re: What do you believe is true the devil or the ego
Post by: Belmont Stakes on April 01, 2012, 02:09:17 PM
Quote from: Drunken Freddy on February 13, 2012, 10:34:16 AM
On one of my courses, I was required to read about Egoism in the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. It was quite an interesting read.

The most interesting part about it was the issue of Psychological Egoism. It's basically a psychological argument that ALL actions people perform in their lives are ultimately selfish. According the basic idea, altruism is a made-up concept that does not truly exist in life, as for every altruistic action that a man does he receives something in return. Be it friendship, gratitude, or even the most basic good feeling of doing a good deed. They set the most extreme example of altruistic action- a soldier covering a grenade with his body to save his friends. In principle, he cannot receive any gratitude for this action of self-sacrifice.
Nevertheless, Psychological Egoism claims his action is egoistic because by doing that the soldier avoids the shame in not doing it.

So you see, if everything we do is egoistic, does the devil really matter? lol...
Also, those are great, I really love those:
(click to show/hide)

     I was reading an article on the Joker from the Batman series. The Joker is said to have murdered over 2000 victims well enough to warrant the death penalty but always is proven not guilty by reason of insanity. I have often wondered what is a being like that lacking or what has it lost to act in such a fashion. Whether or not a person believes in a religion, philosophy, moral code or professes having a conscience no reasonably right thinking person acts that way. What you said about Psychological Egoism seems to be out of balance. Many acts or works can be deemed selfish but I think there is a difference between selfishness and reasonable self concern. Balance is always under assault from all sides.
Title: Re: What do you believe is true the devil or the ego
Post by: Kale on April 01, 2012, 08:59:53 PM
Quote from: TheouAegis on February 13, 2012, 10:18:44 PM
What I don't understand is why everyone pushes Christianity, Catholicism, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism or Hindu in everyone else' face, and yet nobody's pushing Zoroaster's teachings.

No clue on Zoroaster's teaching... though thinking it, it does sound vaguely familiar.

Although Catholic, I also do not like the idea of shoving religion in another's face. I talk about it, yes, but I don't like to shove it in others face unless it's already brought up. I think that's doing more of a disservice to the religion than help gather followers. You should lead by example, as it's often said, not by annoying people by telling them what they aren't even interested in in the first place.
Title: Re: What do you believe is true the devil or the ego
Post by: uzo on April 02, 2012, 09:12:28 AM
When I first read that, I saw "Zoro Toaster". Double take, for sure.
Title: Re: What do you believe is true the devil or the ego
Post by: TheouAegis on April 02, 2012, 07:15:34 PM
Quote from: Drunken Freddy on February 14, 2012, 07:54:35 AM
Giorgio Tsoukalos on Satan

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!!

Zoroaster (aka Zarathustra) supposedly lived 3000 years before Jesus. He preached that human existence is a constant struggle between truth and deceit. Ahura Mazda is He who is truth; creation and existence are that which are truth. Zoroaster also preached the concept of Free Will (if you haven't been to a Judeo-Christian church, that might not seem like a big deal). Good thoughts, words and deeds will keep chaos and deceit at bay and bring happiness to the world. Eventually Ahura Mazda will overcome Angra Mainyu, the embodiment of deceit, and the universe will be restored to its majesty, a savior will appear to renovate the world, and even the dead shall rise for all to be reunited with Ahura Mazda. Ahura Mazda spoke to/through Zoroaster by means of Amesha Spentas, the Holy Immortals who are not Ahura Mazda but part of Ahura Mazda just as the rays of the sun are not the sun but part of the sun, and each of the Amesha Spentas was assisted by Yazatas, those Worthy of Worship (so while one god is worshiped, many lesser entities are worshiped as well as individual parts of that one god, like praising a dominatrix's feet). Fire and water are the purest forms on Earth, water was created second and fire last, whereby water is the source of wisdom and fire is the means through which one can achieve insight into that wisdom. Each of us starts as a soul and is protected by a Fravashi, a guardian spirit if you will, who sends us out into this material world to partake in the struggle between truth and deceit; when we die, our experiences and knowledge then further contribute to the battle in the spiritual realm.
Title: Re: What do you believe is true the devil or the ego
Post by: X on April 03, 2012, 10:48:14 AM
Quote
What I don't understand is why everyone pushes Christianity, Catholicism, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism or Hindu in everyone else' face, and yet nobody's pushing Zoroaster's teachings.

Prophets come and go just like people's memories. Someone comes along to bring out a positive influence through sacred teachings and helps his or her people. Then the Prophet's work is done and they leave. The people will remember for a time until they start to forget. Then they spiral back down to what they were before. That's when another Prophet comes along and helps remind them. As human beings, we're not perfect and our memories are no exception. They are just as finite as we are. Jesus was the most recent Prophet that the Middle East has known while Zoroaster is probably one of the earliest.
Quote
Zoroaster (aka Zarathustra) supposedly lived 3000 years before Jesus. He preached that human existence is a constant struggle between truth and deceit. Ahura Mazda is He who is truth; creation and existence are that which are truth. Zoroaster also preached the concept of Free Will (if you haven't been to a Judeo-Christian church, that might not seem like a big deal). Good thoughts, words and deeds will keep chaos and deceit at bay and bring happiness to the world. Eventually Ahura Mazda will overcome Angra Mainyu, the embodiment of deceit, and the universe will be restored to its majesty, a savior will appear to renovate the world, and even the dead shall rise for all to be reunited with Ahura Mazda. Ahura Mazda spoke to/through Zoroaster by means of Amesha Spentas, the Holy Immortals who are not Ahura Mazda but part of Ahura Mazda just as the rays of the sun are not the sun but part of the sun, and each of the Amesha Spentas was assisted by Yazatas, those Worthy of Worship (so while one god is worshiped, many lesser entities are worshiped as well as individual parts of that one god, like praising a dominatrix's feet). Fire and water are the purest forms on Earth, water was created second and fire last, whereby water is the source of wisdom and fire is the means through which one can achieve insight into that wisdom. Each of us starts as a soul and is protected by a Fravashi, a guardian spirit if you will, who sends us out into this material world to partake in the struggle between truth and deceit; when we die, our experiences and knowledge then further contribute to the battle in the spiritual realm.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Jesus taught the people this exact same concept. However, people being what they are, they couldn't help themselves and twisted many of Christ's teachings to suit their own personal tastes. If and when the Jesus scrolls ever get fully translated we should then have a more accurate interpretation of what the Bible could have truly been like had we not tampered with it.
Title: Re: What do you believe is true the devil or the ego
Post by: Kale on April 03, 2012, 01:28:21 PM
Some reason it sounds a bit like it came out of Judaism. Considering Judaism came first, or should've anyway.
Title: Re: What do you believe is true the devil or the ego
Post by: Belmont Stakes on April 03, 2012, 07:05:14 PM
Quote from: TheouAegis on April 02, 2012, 07:15:34 PM
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!!

Zoroaster (aka Zarathustra) supposedly lived 3000 years before Jesus. He preached that human existence is a constant struggle between truth and deceit. Ahura Mazda is He who is truth; creation and existence are that which are truth. Zoroaster also preached the concept of Free Will (if you haven't been to a Judeo-Christian church, that might not seem like a big deal). Good thoughts, words and deeds will keep chaos and deceit at bay and bring happiness to the world. Eventually Ahura Mazda will overcome Angra Mainyu, the embodiment of deceit, and the universe will be restored to its majesty, a savior will appear to renovate the world, and even the dead shall rise for all to be reunited with Ahura Mazda. Ahura Mazda spoke to/through Zoroaster by means of Amesha Spentas, the Holy Immortals who are not Ahura Mazda but part of Ahura Mazda just as the rays of the sun are not the sun but part of the sun, and each of the Amesha Spentas was assisted by Yazatas, those Worthy of Worship (so while one god is worshiped, many lesser entities are worshiped as well as individual parts of that one god, like praising a dominatrix's feet). Fire and water are the purest forms on Earth, water was created second and fire last, whereby water is the source of wisdom and fire is the means through which one can achieve insight into that wisdom. Each of us starts as a soul and is protected by a Fravashi, a guardian spirit if you will, who sends us out into this material world to partake in the struggle between truth and deceit; when we die, our experiences and knowledge then further contribute to the battle in the spiritual realm.

     I would assume that the people here or a least most of the members of the forum would agree the pursuit of truth is preferable to the lie. So it seems to me that if Jesus was out to change the hearts and behaviors of all peoples he would probably have employed the tactic of inspiring people to change through hope and wonderment (mind of a child) as opposed to using scare tactics (mind of the childish). Honey works better than vinegar, although I do like vinegar here and there.
But in case you don't share these thoughts let me leave you with this. If a guy is named Dick you would want him to be a man but if a man is named Guy you wouldn't want him to be a dick, but you would want him to be all Smiley. :D