Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: Nagumo on March 12, 2012, 02:17:25 AM
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Does anybody else think it's weird that Soma was completely ignorant of Dracula being a real person when asked during Aria? You could argue that the Belmonts always managed to stop Dracula before he could become a known presence to common folk, but I also remembered a quote from the manual of Chronicles that turned him into a pretty competent villain who almost managed to conquer the world during Christopher's time. You would think some people would have remembered that. :-\
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Does anybody else think it's weird that Soma was completely ignorant of Dracula being a real person when asked during Aria? You could argue that the Belmonts always managed to stop Dracula before he could become a known presence to common folk, but I also remembered a quote from the manual of Chronicles that turned him into a pretty competent villain who almost managed to conquer the world during Christopher's time. You would think some people would have remembered that. :-\
This is quite interesting..
But i still dunno weather Cv Adventure is canon though.
Maybe he's long forgotten generation after generation.. :P
Who knows lol
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Methinks it was covered up by the church post-1999. :-X
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But i still dunno weather Cv Adventure is canon though.
what leads you to believe otherwise?
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it passes into myth. Chronicles manual also says "The people of Transylvania whisper the legend of Dracula to their children only half-believing it to be untrue."
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what leads you to believe otherwise?
If somebody could confirm it i suppose.. :P
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Well, if not from Bram Stoker, no one would have known Dracula (or his offspring, as per Mizuki Shigeru) was a vampire. Maybe that's what Soma meant (not sure though, haven't actually played the Soma arc yet, still working on that bitch of a cave in OoE). Maybe he knew Dracula was a real person but thought the legends of Dracula weren't real and thus Dracula the Lord Of Darkness wasn't real. I mean, if you tell kids Dracula was a real person, you'd probably get the same reaction.
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Methinks it was covered up by the church post-1999.
Same here.
I am too believe that Dracula incidents and maybe even his actual existence were covered up by the church and Belmonts through the last few centuries.
However this theory doesn't sit well along with Dracula's attempt to conquer the world in 1999 and 30 years wouldn't be enough to completely forgot about some semi-immortal maniac that attacked world with monsters. Of course, maybe only select few knew where those monsters came from...like Belmonts and their close relative, Alucard, church and Hakuba priests. In short, everyone who was involved into Dracula incidents in the past.
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Uh, Dracula? I thought that story was made up, actually...
This does come off as being somewhat silly on IGA's part. Virtually everybody in the world knows about Dracula and those who don't are more likely people of third world countries who're farmers and have no access to books, radio or even TV's and cellphones. If Soma's a senior student from Japan then chances are he'd know all about the real life Dracula (this is also taking into account all those nights of cram school and studying). And the only real way for the church to hide the truth from the public about Dracula would've been along the lines of 'house-cleaning'. Threats of excommunication and heresy were the biggest worries of the people back in the middle ages and if the church wanted to hush the masses up, this would have most likely been the preferred method of choice. Those that refused probably ended up in prison or under house arrest with no contact to the outside world. With regards to history Dracula would be well-known, however with regards to the vampire aspect it was undoubtedly covered up. So in effect, that which was once one person have since then become two separate entities; One at the forefront and the other hidden in the shadows.
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I think if you'd ask most people on the street, they'd think Dracula was 1930's movie monster invention.
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Maybe what he tried to say is that he doesn't believe in the whole Dracula being a vampire .that doesn't necessarily mean that he doesn't know that a real historical figure existed.I mean if he's in college or whatever, i'm pretty sure he had to study history and got to know that a real person called Dracula existed(Vlad Tepes).
I think it's pretty much like most people in our world who knows Dracula's name only know the fictional character, and thus think that the story was made up.I think only horror fans can really know that a real Dracula existed.
And if I'm not mistaken the Church used stories like the vampire ones to scare people and to conduct witch hunts etc.
I think what IGA tried to do is to implement the modern vision about Dracula in AoS, since it's supposed to take place in the future. It's kinda dumb though since it's a Castlevania game and we don't want realism in our games(at least I do).
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I think if you'd ask most people on the street, they'd think Dracula was 1930's movie monster invention.
Pretty much this. There might be more of an awareness now considering we have things like The History Channel and such, especially documentaries that air around Halloween, but like I said in another thread, back when I was young, I'd never imagine Dracula was based on a real man. Hell, when I first found out there was a REAL Dracula, I echoed the sentiments of my entire class, "He's REAL?!!". But, for most, Bela Lugosi's depiction of Dracula is what people think of when they hear the word "Dracula". It's Lugosi's depiction that inspired vampire lore for years to come. Even Christopher Lee's portrayal was somewhat(looks) inspired by Lugosi's Dracula. We'd never have vampires with a thick accent like Lugosi, never have likes like, "I vant to drink your blood!" or characters like Count Chocula, Sesame Street's The Count or Count Floyd without Lugosi's Dracula. Hell, even CV's earliest depictions of Dracula was based on Lugosi's Dracula. Crazy cool, but because of this, Stoker's fictional character and it's pop culture "essence" is something that has far overshadowed the true historic figure. It's a strange thing, indeed.
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Lugosi was even buried in the Dracula Costume at the request of his family, thats how big that part was. He immortalized his Image as Dracula into public consciousness forever.
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Maybe what he tried to say is that he doesn't believe in the whole Dracula being a vampire .that doesn't necessarily mean that he doesn't know that a real historical figure existed.I mean if he's in college or whatever, i'm pretty sure he had to study history and got to know that a real person called Dracula existed(Vlad Tepes).
I think it's pretty much like most people in our world who knows Dracula's name only know the fictional character, and thus think that the story was made up.I think only horror fans can really know that a real Dracula existed.
And if I'm not mistaken the Church used stories like the vampire ones to scare people and to conduct witch hunts etc.
I think what IGA tried to do is to implement the modern vision about Dracula in AoS, since it's supposed to take place in the future. It's kinda dumb though since it's a Castlevania game and we don't want realism in our games(at least I do).
Well, I don't think Vlad Tepes exists as a historic figure in the Castlevania universe, however. It suppose it was implied in earlier games, but I believe it has now been retconned in simply a name that Dracula took. I recall from the CoD manga that they mention he was just a mysterious count that showed up someday, and not a notorious dictator or something like that. So that would kind of be a wishy-washy way of explaining it...
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Yeah, Lugosi's role was amazing. I watched a documentary about him. Dracula was not just his best role, it was his ONLY popular role. It's both interesting and sad, because when you're a one-role actor you can never play roles much different from that one role that made you popular. No matter how much you try to act differently, people would always watch you and see that character which made you popular. It kills you off as an actor. Directors wouldn't want to hire you for roles that don't fit that image the public is used to seeing you.
Lugosi's case was different. He loved being Dracula. He was good at being Dracula. The problem is, at a certain point people got sick of Dracula. And then Lugosi was doomed. Then the morphine addiction, then the rehab, then the lonely death.
But after all, Dracula is never dead.
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kinda like how Mark Hamill will always be Luke Skywalker.. or the Joker o.o;
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Maybe Dracula isn't a historical person in the CV universe. Or at least not the way he is in our history.
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Well, I don't think Vlad Tepes exists as a historic figure in the Castlevania universe, however. It suppose it was implied in earlier games, but I believe it has now been retconned in simply a name that Dracula took. I recall from the CoD manga that they mention he was just a mysterious count that showed up someday, and not a notorious dictator or something like that. So that would kind of be a wishy-washy way of explaining it...
I meant a historic person in general, not Vlad Tepes III in particular.Vlad Tepes is just a name Dracula took in the Castlevania canon, and it doesn't have much in common with the Voivod that lived during the 15th century.
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kinda like how Mark Hamill will always be Luke Skywalker.. or the Joker o.o;
Well you dont really SEE him as the Joker, just hear him. And it's not his normal voice. So that's a bit different... if anything Id flip that around, the Joker will always be Mark Hamill, and it will be hard for the clown prince of crime to get a different voice that people will accept readily.
Personally I liked Under the Red Hood's Bender Joker. Thought it was good.
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Actually, Soma DOES know about the historic Dracula.
When you have the dialogue with Genya Arikado at the beginning of Aria of Sorrow, Soma actually acknowledges this:
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Arikado: Why have you come here?
Soma : Why? Well, Mina and I...hang on, where are we?
Arikado: We're in Dracula's castle.
Soma : Huh? Dracula's Castle? Are you telling me we are in Europe?
Arikado: No, we are inside the solar eclipse.
Soma : Inside the eclipse?! Are you insane?! Do you think I'm a fool?!
Mina : Soma! Listen to him, he's telling you the truth!
Soma : What the heck are you talking about? Give me an explanation!
Arikado: Well, it's like this...huh?! An enemy!
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So, clearly Soma knows about Dracula's Castle, so he knows the historical figure "Dracula". He may or may not know Bram Stoker's version of "Dracula", but he certainly knows that Dracula is some kind of figure from Europe.
If Soma does not at all know that Dracula declared a War on Humanity and there was a huge conflict in 1999 in Europe, then this is most likely covered up by the parties involved. Sort of a "Men in Black" scenario (and Genya fits this role to a T, plus with the ability to Glamour people since he's a Dhampir...).
It's likely that the Church and a few governments and organizations did their best to cover up anything regarding this event, to prevent it from causing a panic in the regular world... so most people would just not know about it. Back in 1999 the Internet was still somewhat in its infancy and there were no big things like Youtube and Cellphone Videos, etc. so it's somewhat more plausable that an event of such magnitude can be covered up.
If someone did spot anything, it would just be some kind of weird sighting.
Something that may cause some kind of watchgroup, such as ASFAN (http://www.asfan.ro/english.htm) or something.
I'm not an ASFAN. I'm more of a BOOBFAN. Ha ha! I'm here all night, folks.
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I'm not an ASFAN. I'm more of a BOOBFAN. Ha ha! I'm here all night, folks.
BUDUM-DUM-PHSSS!
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I meant a historic person in general, not Vlad Tepes III in particular.Vlad Tepes is just a name Dracula took in the Castlevania canon, and it doesn't have much in common with the Voivod that lived during the 15th century.
This happens a lot with fantasy takes on history, though. It isn't the last time Dracula would be "someone he isn't in reality". Blade III(urgh), Dracula was this old Roman warrior(or something, I forget since that movie was all sorts of horrible). In Dracula 2000, Dracula was Judas Iscariot. It's kinda like how, in Shadow Hearts, Roger Bacon's this never-dying Cryptkeeper-looking character, and in Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter, Abraham Lincoln is a.... vampire hunter. I actually never had a problem with seeing CV's Dracula was someone unique aside from other depictions or history's counterpart. I prefer it that way. I mean, hell, in LoS's, we all know who Dracula is(and it's NOT the historic Vlad III).
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This happens a lot with fantasy takes on history, though. It isn't the last time Dracula would be "someone he isn't in reality". Blade III(urgh), Dracula was this old Roman warrior(or something, I forget since that movie was all sorts of horrible). In Dracula 2000, Dracula was Judas Iscariot. It's kinda like how, in Shadow Hearts, Roger Bacon's this never-dying Cryptkeeper-looking character, and in Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter, Abraham Lincoln is a.... vampire hunter. I actually never had a problem with seeing CV's Dracula was someone unique aside from other depictions or history's counterpart. I prefer it that way. I mean, hell, in LoS's, we all know who Dracula is(and it's NOT the historic Vlad III).
Yep this happens a lot in movies, video games etc. Also according to LoI Dracula is Mathias Cronqvist, whose name strangely ressembles that of Matthias Corvinus, a contemporary of Vlad Tepes III. Heck Vlad Tepes was his vassal at some point. I don't get why they chose this guy over the real Dracula, since both lived at the same time. Why not just go with Vlad Tepes from the start? At least it makes more sense to choose him, instead of trying to find another obscure origin for Dracula.
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Why not just go with Vlad Tepes from the start? At least it makes more sense to choose him, instead of trying to find another obscure origin for Dracula.
Indeed. But if you're trying to figure out IGA's mind then save yourself the trouble and don't bother. It's all sorts of messed up.
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Why not just go with Vlad Tepes from the start? At least it makes more sense to choose him, instead of trying to find another obscure origin for Dracula.
My guess is to make a TWEEEEEEEST (TM).
However they failed with that for many reasons.
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I believe it was CVAdventure's Japanese manual & a few other source materials that stated Dracula was an ancient sorceror long before he declared war on Humanity/events of CVIII. It seems IGA took this idea & ran with it. So this was canon even before IGA took reign, the only legitimate beef people can make is why his name was "Mathias Cronqvist."
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I do find that bit a little odd. I remember thinking so immediately when I first found out.
Oh, and as to Donoffrio's doubts about CVA being canon. Well, there's the fact it's included on every official timeline since the game was published.
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My guess is to make a TWEEEEEEEST (TM).
However they failed with that for many reasons.
I'm pretty sure THIS is the reason. It's a poor reason, though. IGA stated, since before LoI was released, it was going to explain WHY Dracula was 800+ years old in RoB and SotN. So, by that alone, we know Dracula is going to appear. You couldn't be more obvious than that little nugget of info. IMO, there should've been NO mystery to WHO becomes Dracula. Mathias should've been named Vlad Tepes from the start. The question shouldn't be "Who becomes Dracula?", more than, "Why does he become Dracula?".
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I believe it was CVAdventure's Japanese manual & a few other source materials that stated Dracula was an ancient sorceror long before he declared war on Humanity/events of CVIII.
However there was no mention of why Drcaula wanted to wipe out humanity. It was assumed that he is just evil guy who wanted to destroy everything for generic evil reason.
IGA stated, since before LoI was released, it was going to explain WHY Dracula was 800+ years old in RoB and SotN. So, by that alone, we know Dracula is going to appear.
Wow. Never heard of this statement, but it's basically confirms IGA's "leet" skills at storytelling.
For me it was obvious that Mathias will end up as Dracula for two reasons:
1) It was predictable, givinng IGA's love for the "best friend / hero is a culprit" twist. It was done in SOTN and even more obviously in HOD. So, when you have two characters who are best friends in the IGA game (and there is no other important characters around), you certainly can be sure that one of them will end up as traitor. Trust be told this idea wasn't used only by him - it was also done in COTM and LOD in some capacity.
2) Mathias was setup as important character for the story in the intro, however he never appeared during the game (up until the end). It looked like too much story was devoted to the character who wasn't major part of the story. Giving previous experiences it made obvious who will end up as Drcaula by the end of the game.
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here's a good question:
Why does every game in the near future disclude things like cell phones?
AoS I can understand but DoS Could have had a Pretty good story involving Cell phone conversations...
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Here's a better question:
If Mega Man took place in the year 200X, where the hell are the Robot Masters? But seeing Dr. Light call Rock on a cellphone would have been, I dunno, kinda dorky.
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here's a good question:
Why does every game in the near future disclude things like cell phones?
AoS I can understand but DoS Could have had a Pretty good story involving Cell phone conversations...
So I'm not the only person who's wondered this. I have read about mountain villages like the Lost Village wouldn't have the best reception, but I'd like to hope that by 2035 we'd have improved communication lines.
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Well cellphones wouldn't work inside the Eclipse of Dracula's Castle (AoS)
And, if my horrormovie knowledge is any indication, when there are strange phenomena like monsters, ufo's, etc. usually cellphones are static in that area, haha (DoS).
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Also, just who would Soma call? From his personality he wouldn't want others from the outside world getting involved with his problems, so even if he had an operational cell phone I doubt he'd use it.
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Also, just who would Soma call?
Ghostbusters!
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Also- Mathias himself is pretty much just the Francis Ford Coppola Dracula. Holy knight's wife does, he blames God, decides to forsake God for it, becomes a vampire.
Except y'know, the movie did that origin far better. And unfortunately, not even Crispin Freeman's voice could save that.
IGA very well could have done a better more original origin, or at least just written it better. Mathias and his story were just not well handled.
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So I'm not the only person who's wondered this. I have read about mountain villages like the Lost Village wouldn't have the best reception, but I'd like to hope that by 2035 we'd have improved communication lines.
Do they even have a need for cellphones in 2035? Taking into account of our continued leaps and bounds in technology/communications development, the cellphone as we know it would be obsolete. They probably have something along the lines of Ghost in the Shell. Some form of cybernetic telecom device implanted in the user's brain thus eliminating the need for a physical handheld phones. And I'm pretty sure that signal disruption like static would be a thing of the past unless the disturbance was deliberate.
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Do they even have a need for cellphones in 2035? Taking into account of our continued leaps and bounds in technology/communications development, the cellphone as we know it would be obsolete. They probably have something along the lines of Ghost in the Shell. Some form of cybernetic telecom device implanted in the user's brain thus eliminating the need for a physical handheld phones. And I'm pretty sure that signal disruption like static would be a thing of the past unless the disturbance was deliberate.
Im pretty sure you are reading into 2035 a bit too much.
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We were supposed to all be driving hovercars by now. Androids were supposed to be handling our menial labor. I think by 2035 we're supposed to be fighting off aliens that just want to impregnate us or use us for sport. And even if by 2035 the GITS technology is there, the majority of people wouldn't go for it and it would never take off. Shirow's stories are very techy and stuff (well, the ones that don't involve tentacle rape), but he never does dwell on how technology in his worlds progresses to the point it's at. It's not like Battle Angel Alita, which not only has a techy story but also a techy back story (and then some weird biogenesis stuff).
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Im pretty sure you are reading into 2035 a bit too much.
Not if you think about it in this context: We've gone from the horse & cart to the modern age of digital information in about 70 years. From now, 2012 to 2035 I think that a lot is going to happen in terms of technological leaps and bounds. I don't think for a second that I'm reading into this too much nor is it out of the realm of possibility. New people come along and with them new ideas, inventions and innovations as well. Humanity has been progressing very quickly this last century and I feel that for this century, it's going to quicken even more.
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Well cellphones wouldn't work inside the Eclipse of Dracula's Castle (AoS)
The first thing that comes to mind with an eclipse is that eclipses are not alternate dimensions. I remember reading the script for AoS had used mythology for that explanation but I can't find anything on whether that's the case in real life. Suspension of disbelief can only go so far.
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The first thing that comes to mind with an eclipse is that eclipses are not alternate dimensions. I remember reading the script for AoS had used mythology for that explanation but I can't find anything on whether that's the case in real life. Suspension of disbelief can only go so far.
Because everything else about the Castlevania universe is perfectly fine..? The eclipse is what gets to you? Really?
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I think there was a laser rifle in Aria of Sorrow, so there's definitely evidence that the world Soma lives in during the 2030s is more advanced than ours in at least some respects...
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According to my calculations, humanity will either:
- make alien contact by the end of 2012
- a meteor will hit the planet, just like in Final Fantasy VII
- Jesus Christ will return
- The inhabitants of Agartha will come out from the North & South Poles
- Solar flares will scorch the planet, rendering all satelites obsolete
imo
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According to my calculations, humanity will either:
- make alien contact by the end of 2012
a meteor will hit the planet, just like in Final Fantasy VII
KEFKA WILL LAZER TEH WORLD- Jesus Christ will return
- The inhabitants of Agartha will come out from the North & South Poles
- Solar flares will scorch the planet, rendering all satelites obsolete
imo
Speaking of Final Fantasy....
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According to my calculations, humanity will either:
- make alien contact by the end of 2012
I really want this to happen. :P
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We can barely get along with each other and you want humanity to try and get along with aliens?
Speaking of meteors, theres supposedly one that will swing by in 2014, and depending on how close it swings, it might actually hit the planet in 2030 or something when it loops around.
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We can barely get along with each other and you want humanity to try and get along with aliens?
The people whom are the most paranoid about aliens are those of Scientology. Everyone else is far more sane and reasonable.
I think there was a laser rifle in Aria of Sorrow, so there's definitely evidence that the world Soma lives in during the 2030s is more advanced than ours in at least some respects...
The laser weapon in AoS was called the Positron rifle. I use it whenever I want to get Sci-Fi on the undead :)
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The problem with technological advancement conjecture is it's based on the principle that technological evolution is on a exponential trajectory. If man technology took this long to progress to the point it is at and has since been rapidly increasing, it therefore must continue to rapidly increase. This mindset is flawed, though (sorry Stephen Hawking). Nature doesn't exhibit exponential patterns, it exhibits sinusoidal patterns. Now, I'm not suggesting hundreds of thousands of years ago man was more technologically advanced than he was twenty thousand years ago and regressed to the point when the wheel was a technological breakthrough (although that theory has been proposed by some crackpots). What I'm saying is technology may advance to the point where it levels off and then starts to degrade (due to human fear of rapid change as well as capitalism) before building back up, kinda following along a cubic polynomial. Or, as the case may likely be, technological advancement will slow to a near crawl, taking on a shape that I remember seeing in high school and have since forgot what it's called. :-\ And even though they've calculated how many atoms it would take to store a single byte of information (or was it a bit? whatever), they flat out said mankind is nowhere near technologically advanced enough to actually produce an atomic computer on that scale. Remember, in the Star Trek universe, Earth had to become a utopia (and drive whales to extinction) before it could explore the deepest parts of space.
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There are many reasons in modern day earth for why Technology has slowed down in it's growth.
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There are many reasons in modern day earth for why Technology has slowed down in it's growth.
I blame the petroleum companies and other greedy corporations that view technological progress as a loss of profit :P