Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: Fofa on March 13, 2012, 07:43:30 PM
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As far as many fanbases are concerned, there are certain games you're not allowed to like or hate, and the Castlevania fanbase is no exception. In my findings this is the general consensus of which games are which.
You're not allowed to hate:
Symphony of the Night
Castlevania 1 and 3
Rondo of Blood
Aria of Sorrow (and by extension Dawn of Sorrow)
Super Castlevania IV
Order of Ecclesia
You're not allowed to like:
Portrait of Ruin
Haunted Castle
Castlevania 64
Castlevania Adventure
Judgment
Dracula X (SNES)
No middle ground/flame war ignition:
Castlevania Legends
Castlevania 2: Simon's Quest
Circle of the Moon
Harmony of Despair
Harmony of Dissonance
Any thoughts? Counter arguments?
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I've seen all those games praised and criticized equally. Some fans take 'loyalty' to specific video games to childish extremes, though, but for the most part I think most members of the CV fanbase do not hold any games on a certain pedestal of untouchable criticism or dislike. I don't care for Dawn of Sorrow and like Portrait of Ruin, but I really can't take anybody who jumps down my throat about it seriously.
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I hope this topic doesn't start a flamewar.....
On a personal level, I think its obvious your allowed to like or hate anything you want. Its your opinion and your life.
But for the sake of the topic I'm going to participate.
You're not allowed to hate:
Castlevania Symphony of the Night
Super Castlevania 4
Castlevania Dracula X Rondo of Blood
Castlevania 3 Dracula's Curse
Castlevania Circle of the Moon
Castlevania Aria of Sorrow
Castlevania Bloodlines
Castlevania Order of Ecclesia
Your not allowed to like
Castlevania Adventure
Castlevania Legends
Castlevania Judgment
Castlevania Lords of Shadow
Castlevania Portrait of Ruin
Middle Ground:
Castlevania 64
Castlevania Legacy of Darkness
Castlevania Curse of Darkness
Castlevania Lament of Innocence
Castlevania Harmony of Despair
Castlevania Harmony of Dissonance
Castlevania 2 Simon's Quest
Castlevania (original)
Castlevania Dawn of Sorrow
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I hope this topic doesn't start a flamewar.....
That was never my intention with this thread, I'm just curious what other people think and make averages from there.
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I agree with darkprincealucard on most of it above...there are some reflections I could add but..
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That was never my intention with this thread, I'm just curious what other people think and make averages from there.
I don't ever think it is anybody's intention to start a flame war when they make a topic (though there are a few).
I'm just saying, Doesn't matter if its your intention or not, it just happens sometimes.
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Fofa's list seems to describe the "generally loved" and "generally hated" games pretty well. I wouldn't group Aria and Dawn of Sorrow together though. Aria's placed on a pedestal, and Dawn, not so much. Part of it is due to it's anime style, which landed Portrait in the second list.
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Like D.P. Al said, there's a huge flame war risk in this thread. Not to mention the provocative thread title...
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Fofa's list seems to describe the "generally loved" and "generally hated" games pretty well. I wouldn't group Aria and Dawn of Sorrow together though. Aria's placed on a pedestal, and Dawn, not so much. Part of it is due to it's anime style, which landed Portrait in the second list.
Gameplay was more on the mind when I wrote it.
Like D.P. Al said, there's a huge flame war risk in this thread. Not to mention the provocative thread title...
Well, if there ends up being a flame war I'll try to get it locked before it escalates too high.
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Funny how Lords of Shadow is listed in the games you're not allowed to like.
Because that game is NOT Castlevania.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/c0mbat/troll.png)
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I don't like Super Castlevania IV and love Lords of Shadow
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/096/044/trollface.jpg?1296494117)
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Gameplay was more on the mind when I wrote it.
Oh I see. Did people really not like the gameplay of Portrait of Ruin? I thought it was the art style and story telling that some people hated. Oh, and I guess there was the copy-paste thing in the last portraits that a lot of people hated too. I felt like I was the only person who appreciated those "bonus" portraits as an improvement over the bonus levels what we had in previous games, such as an upside down castle or Castle A/B thing.
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Oh I see. Did people really not like the gameplay of Portrait of Ruin? I thought it was the art style and story telling that some people hated. Oh, and I guess there was the copy-paste thing in the last portraits that a lot of people hated too. I felt like I was the only person who appreciated those "bonus" portraits as an improvement over the bonus levels what we had in previous games, such as an upside down castle or Castle A/B thing.
To me the copy pasted stuff, no matter its application, is either a symbol of laziness or a rushed schedule (I'm guessing the latter). That and the dual character system wasn't as utilized as it could have been. And I've seen criticisms to the easy difficulty as well, even though SotN, from what I understand is pretty easy too.
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DarkPrinceAlucard's list is better.
Also, I hated the Inverted Castle in SotN, to the point that whenever I replay that game I just stop after beating Richter. No matter how the fanboys spin it, it was nothing more than a cheap attempt to increase the gameplay time.
*Keeps quiet about LoS*
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Symphony of the Night has an AWFUL difficulty curve, anyway. it can't decide if it wants to be remotely challenging or not.
But yeah, this list is sadly pretty accurate. And will start a flame war.
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I like all of the games to some degree.
Judgment/Pachislot I can't comment on.
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Portrait did suck but i did like the lvl of sub weapons... even if I didn't like how long it took. It was just dragging on and on...
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@D.P.A.
PoR should be in the middle ground. It's not as bad as SotN Inverted castle.
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I am agree with Fofa's list, though I'd added LOS to the "No middle ground/flame war ignition" category.
As for the other games I'd say recently people started to warm up to the CV64. At least I saw a lot of positive praise to some aspects of this game in the last few years. It maybe does not
belong with the most revered games in the series, but I think it is not that hated at least by fans of the series, couldn't say the same about game critics, who seemingly loath this game for whatever reason.
I find it funny that I have disliking of almost every game in the "You're not allowed to hate" category except for CV1, SCV4 and OOE. Especially it goes to the CV3 as of late.
In the category "You're not allowed to like" I personally love CV64 (not LOD though) and consider Drcaula X to be better game than Rondo in some aspects (difficulty, music).
And I never saw any flame war about CV2.
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I find it funny that people can hate PoR but love OoE. Or love DoS but dislike PoR. These three games are pretty much the exact same games as far as gameplay, level design and graphics go. But still people pretend that they're vastly different. When they're not. Anyone can see that. When people are praising OoE and trashing PoR in the very same sentence, they're nitpicking on a level that people outside the Castlevania fanbase would never ever understand. I've got more than one friend who can't tell DoS, PoR and OoE apart. "Why would anyone wanna pay for the exact same game three times in a row?" they ask. Same question I ask fans of Call of Duty or EA Sports.
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@D.P.A.
PoR should be in the middle ground. It's not as bad as SotN Inverted castle.
Matter of personal preference really.
I myself didn't like POR all that much.
1.lame storyline
2.lame level layout (the living picture thing was a dumb idea and only works for games like Super Mario 64)
3.Difficulty was REALLY easy, even more so than Dawn of Sorrow
4.Eric Lecarde gets murdered in this one (he was my favorite character in Bloodlines)
But to each his own I suppose...
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These are the current trends. The 'not allowed to love' one is more fluid than the 'not allowed to hate' one, with a large middle ground.
Not allowed to hate:
Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse (NES)
Super Castlevania IV (SNES)
Symphony of the Night (PS1)
Not allowed to love:
Castlevania Legends (GBC)
Castlevania Judgment (Wii)
Castlevania 64 (N64)
Castlevania: DraculaXX/Vampire's Kiss (SNES)
Castlevania: Order of Shadows (Mobile)
True Middle Ground (generally liked, but agreed upon that they're not perfect games):
Castlevania (NES)
Castlevania Adventure II: Belmonts' Revenge
Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow
Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia
The rest of the middle ground:
The Quirkies (these games have a following, but generally have one or more grating flaws that prevent them from being great):
Vampire Killer (MSX)
Decent game for its time, but Castlevania (NES) is pretty much better in every way.
Castlevania II: Simon's Quest (NES)
Decent game but improperly mapped out, difficult to understand without a guide, and some gameplay issues tack on as well.
DraculaX: Rondo of Blood (PC-Engine)
Pretty great game, but the control isn't as good as Super Castlevania IV. Still widely held in high regard, and for some, is a "Not allowed to hate" game. Also, the music is awesome.
The Mediocre (these aren't bad games, but they have a number of issues, enough to make fans generally recognize that they're not as great as we'd like them to be):
Castlevania Bloodlines
It's an alright title, but the rigidity of the characters, the missing color palette of the Genesis, and general lack of panache in comparison to Rondo and Super CVIV make this title fall into mediocrity by many.
Castlevania: Circle of the Moon
A pretty great title, but the (at the time) GBA display was just getting worked out, so the hero is tiny, the castle is huge, and double-tapping becomes a chore.
Castlevania: Lament of Innocence and Castlevania: Curse of Darknness (PS2 and XBOX for the latter)
It's not quirky... it's a cookie-cutter dungeon-crawler-style game with flat boring stages, even if they're visually appealing. The music rocks, though. Gameplay-wise, they're pretty OK.
Castlevania: Legacy of Darkness
People dislike it because they feel it is what Castlevania 64 should have been, thus they feel ripped off that it took two games to get it 'right'. There are some gameplay issues that, though at the time were acceptable, have made the game age in an unpleasant matter.
Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow, Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin
These games are cookie-cutter titles that, while good, end up looking like copies of Symphony of the Night. Some issues in the art direction and a nonsensical plot, accompanied by some light trampling of prior Castlevania canon (from AoS and from Bloodlines) also make them gather some negativity.
The Unimportant (games which may or may not be bad, but generally people feel 'meh' about them. No true hatred, but no fire-in-your-belly passion either, save for a few):
Castlevania: The Adventure
Castlevania: Harmony of Dissonance
Castlevania: The Arcade
Castlevania: Pachislot
Current Hot Trends:
Castlevania: Lords of Shadow (has heated opinions both for the game and against it)
Castlevania: Harmony of Despair (has heated opinions from the item collectors and online community, but purists find it to be a cash-in)
THE ABYSS:
Really bad games we should hate (opinion) but no one listens to meeeee:
Castlevania 64 (Commodore 64)
Castlevania (Amiga)
If there's a game I've not mentioned, then it falls under "The Unimportant". That's how unimportant it is.
Let it be known that, aside from THE ABYSS, I think all the other games are actually pretty good. Yes, even that one. And that one. Yup, that one too.
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Mmmh, this thread has some kind of Déjà-Vu...
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Castlevania Chronicles is important to me. ;_;
I always thought that both it and Belmont's Revenge are good games that just fly under the radar
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I find it funny that people can hate PoR but love OoE. Or love DoS but dislike PoR. These three games are pretty much the exact same games as far as gameplay, level design and graphics go. But still people pretend that they're vastly different. When they're not.
I disagree with this.
DOS, POR and OOE, while certainly being similar games, are prety different from each other in terms of mood, atmosphere and level design.
DOS is generally plain. It is boring game with very good gameplay, but non-inspired level design, minimum platforming and generally plain mood.
POR have better level design somewhat, but even the best levels are not very interesting. Some of them just horrible. Besides different level appearance gave the game mish-mashy feel. Butchered story added insult to injury. And gameplay-wise it wasn't good as DOS.
OOE have different level design, resembling CV2 in idea and in general closer to the classic games, melancholic mood, awesome soundtrack. Coupled with interesting gameplay, mostly derived from AOS / DOS, it sets itself apart from DOS and POR.
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DOS, POR and OOE, while certainly being similar games, are prety different from each other in terms of mood, atmosphere and level design.
DOS is generally plain. It is boring game with very good gameplay, but non-inspired level design, minimum platforming and generally plain mood.
POR have better level design somewhat, but even the best levels are not very interesting. Some of them just horrible. Besides different level appearance gave the game mish-mashy feel. Butchered story added insult to injury. And gameplay-wise it wasn't good as DOS.
OOE have different level design, resembling CV2 in idea and in general closer to the classic games, melancholic mood, awesome soundtrack. Coupled with interesting gameplay, mostly derived from AOS / DOS, it sets itself apart from DOS and POR.
PoR was my first Castlevania game (yeah I know, I'm a late comer) and I've only played the DS titles, so I still have a bit of a soft spot for it, even though it does have the flaws I mentioned previously.
The main reason I started this was because I've seen some fanbases absolutely explode into civil war if one person didn't agree with the general consensus. At least this seemed to be a more civil discussion.
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Interestingly enough, I think OoE has the weakest level design of all three DSvanias. Though there's less backtracking so you don't have to see the worst levels again and again if you don't want to. But to be honest I think level design in all three games leave something to be desired. They're pretty much the same to me. But DoS is better imo, maybe because it was first.
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When people are praising OoE and trashing PoR in the very same sentence, they're nitpicking on a level that people outside the Castlevania fanbase would never ever understand.
These guys have proven your point, Shelvy.
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The main reason I started this was because I've seen some fanbases absolutely explode into civil war if one person didn't agree with the general consensus.
Such is the way of pretty much all old fandoms.
The series changed so much with the time and many people joined in different eras, so sadly there would be some disagreement between fans. I hate it, personally.
PoR was my first Castlevania game (yeah I know, I'm a late comer) and I've only played the DS titles, so I still have a bit of a soft spot for it, even though it does have the flaws I mentioned previously.
Nothing bad about being a late comer to the franchise. It doesn't make you less of a fan or something. I, for one, didn't even knew that there were other Castlevanias, except for the NES trilogy, up until 2003.
Interestingly enough, I think OoE has the weakest level design of all three DSvanias. Though there's less backtracking so you don't have to see the worst levels again and again if you don't want to. But to be honest I think level design in all three games leave something to be desired. They're pretty much the same to me. But DoS is better imo, maybe because it was first.
The reason why I like OOE level design is that its rely on platforming more than in previous two games, and levels are short. DOS levels were a chore to me. Too long, unimpressive and boring. And POR levels were mish-mash of different ideas that I didn't like, IMHO.
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I spent so many years enjoying my Castlevania games, and I didn't know I was wrong and being a nad fan. But thankfully, I've managed to stop having inappropriate fun, and only enjoy the correct Castlevanias now.
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being a nad fan
*trying insanely hard to stifle snickers*
Kidding aside I get that feel bro.
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Interestingly enough, I think OoE has the weakest level design of all three DSvanias. Though there's less backtracking so you don't have to see the worst levels again and again if you don't want to
This. Has. Too. Much. Sense.
:broken heart:
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*trying insanely hard to stifle snickers*
Kidding aside I get that feel bro.
Well, Rondo of Blood showed us that Wolfman does INDEED have nads.
(I was trying to type "bad," but using my iPhone. I wonder what this says about autocorrect)
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I don't like Super Castlevania IV and love Lords of Shadow
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/096/044/trollface.jpg?1296494117)
Replace sciv with sotn and that describes me. Sotn just gets so boring,it's too easy for my taste and I have some form of malice against Alucard(but that's besides the point). And I love legacy of darkness. Revolvers and werewolf powers go!
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I find it funny that people can hate PoR but love OoE. Or love DoS but dislike PoR. These three games are pretty much the exact same games as far as gameplay, level design and graphics go. But still people pretend that they're vastly different. When they're not. Anyone can see that.
That’s a fair point to make if you take any game on its own, on it's own merits. I think the point is that they're not vastly different. Having played Aria, Dawn, Portrait one after the other I just found the Castleroid system wearing exceptionally thin (I was losing heart after Dawn to be honest). The Wind quests were a good change of pace, but not enough to rescue a game which felt dumbed-down, and by this point of time in history (with IGA and his team having such a wealth of experience) having perhaps the worst level design in a Castlevania game (OoE has it's moments too). Of course, if you go back and play the likes of Symphony it feels rather empty and lifeless now that we've come on some in Castleroid terms.
But after Portrait, I just came away with an unshakable feeling the series was going backwards, wasn't learning much new.
But as I've said often: if you come into Portrait of Ruin fresh, you'll probably love it. But it's horses for courses.
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I find it funny that people can hate PoR but love OoE. Or love DoS but dislike PoR. These three games are pretty much the exact same games as far as gameplay, level design and graphics go. But still people pretend that they're vastly different. When they're not. Anyone can see that.
Some people enjoy Story and Art in castlevania games. And DoS and PoR had the worst of both. Generic looking anime artwork and terrible stories that shit on their predecessors. AoS didnt NEED a sequel, and even if it did, it could have been much much better than what DoS offered. In all departments. And PoR is just an insult to Bloodlines.
OoE though, had an original story, which as we know, is the only kind of storytelling IGA knows how to do very well, and had a pleasing art direction that I wouldn't mind seeing return.
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i think you should be allowed to like any game in the series, but not hate any of the games whatsoever. after all we're all castlevania fans in here and if we hate any one of them we're just going to risk harming the self-respect of the fans of these kinds of games and possible injure our respect for the series as a whole.
moreover there's not as much you can do to control others' preferences and dislikes as you might think, it's all in their minds, not in yours.
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i think you should be allowed to like any game in the series, but not hate any of the games whatsoever. after all we're all castlevania fans in here and if we hate any one of them we're just going to risk harming the self-respect of the fans of these kinds of games and possible injure our respect for the series as a whole.
moreover there's not as much you can do to control others' preferences and dislikes as you might think, it's all in their minds, not in yours.
That's generally my opinion on games too, so it generally makes me want to hit my head against a wall when fanbases exclude members based on something one person said, and especially if the game in question has only been played by a select few.
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In a perfect world, it would be like this.
However, in reality, there are games that get a certain following.
In my list, I was going by the current trends. Personally, I love ever CV game except the badly coded ones (Commodore Castlevania, I'm looking at you).
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I wrote a gigantic post about Portrait of Ruin a while ago, and was pretty complimentary towards it. I should probably do what I said I'd do and do the same for OoE and SotN. Someday.
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i think you should be allowed to like any game in the series, but not hate any of the games whatsoever. after all we're all castlevania fans in here and if we hate any one of them we're just going to risk harming the self-respect of the fans of these kinds of games and possible injure our respect for the series as a whole.
Well, if you mean collective hatred promoted by some people that stems from such concepts as "true Castlevania is only (2D, 3D e.t.c.)", then I am agree with you. Such behavior should be controled and not promoted as "official position of the True Old Hracore Fans Who knows Better", since it really harm fandom reputation and alienate newcomers who can have their own opinion, not based on the nostalgia and love for the old games.
However, thinking that people who a part of the fandom should unconditionally love all games in the series just because they are part of the franchise, no matter what their actual quality is, is wrong also. It is behavior that leads to the insane fanboism ("series is perfect as is, everyone who things otherwise are wrong / not fans / children e.t.c." mentality) and also obviously alienation of the newcomers. Besides, how could you deny what people opinion just like that?
Everyone have right to have their own opinion on any game in the series. And it is completely normal to dislike some of them, since not every single game in the franchise is perfect. Besides, we all have different tastes. Promoting "no hate for the games of the series because we are fans of this series" is like creating a censorship. It will shatter community even more so than any arguments about on what games should be.
I am sometimes come as person who intolerate other opinions, however it is not exactly like that. I admit that everyone have right to dislike some games in the series. However, the matter is how you put it. You can just say that in specific thread that you dislike that game for some reasons or you can repeat it like a broken record in every thread no matter what actual discussion is about. The second behaviour is what I was talking about earlier: it is essentially can create impression that this said opinion, not just opinion of several individuals, but opinion of the fandom as whole, and that is actually untrue.
So in the end, it is not matter of what you like or dislike, you can like or dislike whatever you want. It will not harm fandom and criticism can be much more useful than blind following. It is the matter of how you put it in words.
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Interesting thread. Seems like the community's opinions have shifted a bit.
.You're not allowed to hate:
Order of Ecclesia-Personally, I thought the characters and story of this game were the worst of the DS games (none of which were all that great to begin with) and it was the only CV game to not have a whip wielder of any kind. Not that that's a deal breaker, but to me it would have made the game a lot more fun, even as an extra mode. Level design was better than the other two DS games, but still not great.
You're not allowed to like:
Portrait of Ruin-I thought this was the best of the DS titles because for me it was the most fun. I can't really explain it, but I played this one more than any of the others. The multiple characters mode was great if underutilized and "Richiter" controlled like an expensive sports car, especially in comparison to any of his previous iterations. Flawed, but definitely worthy of the time I spent playing it imo.
Haunted Castle-Not a great game, but I still love it somehow.
Castlevania 64-I like this game better than LoD because the level design is much better and tighter. The only thing LoD has over this is the extra characters and different whip graphics for upgrades.
Dracula X (SNES)-This is a completely different game from Rondo. They share sprites, sure, but other than that, they have nothing in common as far as I can see. The lack of good response in the controls is this game's major flaw other than uneven level design.
No middle ground/flame war ignition:
Castlevania 2: Simon's Quest-I'm gonna be honest and admit a bias towards Simon's Quest. This game is the reason I play video games in general and I've been a hardcore CV fan since it came out in 1988. A lot of the things that are now considered "flaws" were acceptable back when it came out. The odd and indecipherable "clues" were merely a way to extend game life in a day and age when games were expensive and not anywhere near as mainstream as they are now. They HAD to give players their money's worth because there wasn't a glut of other games you could really turn to and not many people owned more than one system back then. I'm not saying this excuses these things, but it's a way of explaining them to people who weren't around and playing games back when it came out.
In a way, playing Simon's Quest is kind of like using a typewriter now. The keys aren't as responsive as the keyboard on a nice laptop, it's noisy, if you make a mistake, you have to get out the little white correction tabs or start over (some of you are probably wondering WTF I'm talking about Lol!) But back when they were new, they were state-of-the-art. I may ruffle some feathers by saying this, but I'll go so far as to say that unless you played the game when it was released, you'll never truly be able to appreciate it on its own terms because you'll invariably measure it against the progress that has been made in the interface and design of modern games.
I see what the people griping about it are saying, but if you play it after you've finished all the more polished Castleroid games that came after it, there's no way it can possibly stand up in your mind.
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but but... I liked PoR T___T
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In my list, I was going by the current trends. Personally, I love ever CV game except the badly coded ones (Commodore Castlevania, I'm looking at you).
"Yeah, another thing about the Commodore, it only works when it feels like it!" -AVGN
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@DoctaMario: With LoD you get improved camera controls with the D-Pad, as well as two new stages. There are improved controls for when you're hanging on ledges, which is what most people complained about with CV64 because you always would have to press UP on the Control stick to climb a ledge, no matter what angle the camera was viewing you from, thus causing confusion (if the camera is facing the cliff, pressing UP means pressing away from the ledge, while in LoD you press 'towards the direction of the ledge'.
You alwo get subweapon upgrades, which improve their range/intensity.
Having said that, CV64 does have its charms (Simon Belmont and Maria Renard costumes :D).
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@DoctaMario: With LoD you get improved camera controls with the D-Pad, as well as two new stages. There are improved controls for when you're hanging on ledges, which is what most people complained about with CV64 because you always would have to press UP on the Control stick to climb a ledge, no matter what angle the camera was viewing you from, thus causing confusion (if the camera is facing the cliff, pressing UP means pressing away from the ledge, while in LoD you press 'towards the direction of the ledge'.
You alwo get subweapon upgrades, which improve their range/intensity.
Having said that, CV64 does have its charms (Simon Belmont and Maria Renard costumes :D).
I forgot about the camera thing. BUt I actually preferred the control scheme for ledges in CV64. To me, it was c confusing in LoD trying to figure out which direction you had to push depending on the angle of the camera. With CV64, it was UP every time, no guesswork there. And I DID like the subweapon upgrades. But I still vastly prefer the levels in CV64 (except Duel Tower, MAN do I hate that stage! >_< ) But weren't there three new stages in LoD? Shipwreck, Outer Wall, and Art Tower? Or am I mistaken?
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You get the Foggy Lake (Haunted Ship), the Outer Wall (Cornell Only), the Art Tower (Cornell Only), and the Tower or Ruins (Cornell Only).
You get some slight redesigns in the Underground Waterway (Carrie), and the Cave (Reinhardt) but they're very subtle (I think it's just some item placement, textures, and one or two platforms, but I do not have the maps for these so I could be talking out of my ass).
You get bigger redesigns in the Tower of Science, and Tower of Sorcery (Carrie) and the Tower of Duels and Tower of Execution (Reinhardt).
In particular, the Tower of Execution is radically different, as the pillar in the center of the molten steel section isn't completely formed yet, and instead is a smoldering mess of a platform, as opposed to it being a fully-regenerated pillar in the N64 version. I guess the castle hadn't fully configured itself yet.
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You get the Foggy Lake (Haunted Ship), the Outer Wall (Cornell Only), the Art Tower (Cornell Only), and the Tower or Ruins (Cornell Only).
You get some slight redesigns in the Underground Waterway (Carrie), and the Cave (Reinhardt) but they're very subtle (I think it's just some item placement, textures, and one or two platforms, but I do not have the maps for these so I could be talking out of my ass).
You get bigger redesigns in the Tower of Science, and Tower of Sorcery (Carrie) and the Tower of Duels and Tower of Execution (Reinhardt).
In particular, the Tower of Execution is radically different, as the pillar in the center of the molten steel section isn't completely formed yet, and instead is a smoldering mess of a platform, as opposed to it being a fully-regenerated pillar in the N64 version. I guess the castle hadn't fully configured itself yet.
Ah! I forgot Tower Of Ruins. The basement of that level was really cool until you got knocked down there a couple times. The Waterway and Cave levels were actually pretty different. Most of the levels were, which I think was a detriment in most cases. And the 64 games are near the top of my list of favorite CV games, but I just wish they'd kept the levels from CV64 or come up with some entirely new ones because the redesigns just don't make as much sense to me.
The Forest Of Silence is a good case in point. To me, a forest is a single plane level, not all sorts of cliff scaling and such (and I know there was a bit of cliff scaling in the CV64 version, but I thought that too took away from the false serenity of the level.) I thought FoS in CV64 was a good way to get familiar with the game's mechanics in a fairly low-risk environment, and it actually seemed to resemble a FOREST. The one in LoD was just...weird. It had some cool parts to it, don't get me wrong, but it was just not as well designed. Same with a lot of the other levels. The Tower of Sorcery in CV64 was incredible, especially the part where you climb that little pillar in the middle of the level and you can see the windows in the background as you do, but the one in LoD was a bit of a let-down.
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I've recently played LoD and I can tell you that virtually all the stages have had either a major or minor facelift.
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I love both of those games. Back in the day, they were the prettiest thing second to Ocarina of Time (you have to put nostalgia glasses and remember that the best games on the N64 after these were usually Rareware games like Banjo Tooie and Conker's Bad Fur Day... and nothing on the PSX except maybe Metal Gear was as cool in terms of true 3D exploration games).
It's true that they haven't aged well though. Still, they're a fun random romp.
Can anyone think of games that, at the time, were pretty ground-breaking, in terms of 3D gameplay and graphics?
The reason I ask is, the N64 games get a lot of flak for not aging well, not being very pretty graphically. I don't recall, however, there being anything that much prettier graphics-wise around those years. I did not own a Playstation 1 for a while and I'm talking strictly 3D Adventure titles.
The stuff I can think of is
N64:
GoldenEye
JetForce Gemini
Conker's Bad Fur Day
Banjo Kazooie
Banjo Tooie
Ocarina of Time
Paper Mario (though that's not really 3D... well it sort of is...)
Super Smash Bros.
And on PS1:
Metal Gear
SoulBlade
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I love both of those games. Back in the day, they were the prettiest thing second to Ocarina of Time (you have to put nostalgia glasses and remember that the best games on the N64 after these were usually Rareware games like Banjo Tooie and Conker's Bad Fur Day... and nothing on the PSX except maybe Metal Gear was as cool in terms of true 3D exploration games).
It's true that they haven't aged well though. Still, they're a fun random romp.
Can anyone think of games that, at the time, were pretty ground-breaking, in terms of 3D gameplay and graphics?
The reason I ask is, the N64 games get a lot of flak for not aging well, not being very pretty graphically. I don't recall, however, there being anything that much prettier graphics-wise around those years. I did not own a Playstation 1 for a while and I'm talking strictly 3D Adventure titles.
The stuff I can think of is
N64:
GoldenEye
JetForce Gemini
Conker's Bad Fur Day
Banjo Kazooie
Banjo Tooie
Ocarina of Time
Paper Mario (though that's not really 3D... well it sort of is...)
Super Smash Bros.
And on PS1:
Metal Gear
SoulBlade
Games listed all awesome, and when Rare was THE developer of the time I have the chance to but a japanese version of space force gemini right now alongside pokemon stadium(2)jp version and bomberman hero boxed. I love boxed games.
Also I guess you can say for the ps1 chrono cross or the final fantasys, and what about spyro and crashbandit?Yes two are rpgs but this is what I can think of at the moment ps1 was more diverse and had great looking games in all departments at least one in each genre from Sotn and star ocean or valkyrie profile to soul blade and tekken to chrono cross to grand turismo and ff it just seems that when compared to n64, ps1 had little bangs in big numbers and the n64 had big bangs in little numbers I guess. And I know that you were talking about adventure titles and these those two titles were all I could come up with I do not know if oddworld was 3d and there was tomb raider, but it seems Lara was remembered more for her breast than her gameplay.
And I got a boxed japanese version of yoshi's story just a couple of days ago for 19.99 not bad I must say.
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I would have listed the FF games for PS1, but most of them used only 3d character models and were actually on 2d backgrounds (unless there was overworld traveling, but that was really basic-looking on most titles).
Also, forgot about Mario Kart 64 and Diddy Kong Racing.
Spyro and Crash Bandicoot are good examples of PS1 3D platformers, etc. Were there more?
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I would have listed the FF games for PS1, but most of them used only 3d character models and were actually on 2d backgrounds (unless there was overworld traveling, but that was really basic-looking on most titles).
Also, forgot about Mario Kart 64 and Diddy Kong Racing.
Spyro and Crash Bandicoot are good examples of PS1 3D platformers, etc. Were there more?
Slient Hill is one, but we all know it is not an action platformer.
What was it called pre-rendered backgrounds right? resident evil used them untill the 4th right?
There is this
Medievil (PS1) The Graveyard (2) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaT_vsS4J_A#)
(fun fact)and believe it or not onimusha was going to be a ps1 game
Onimusha [PS1] for the original PlayStation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvOFYZ5Cm2I#)
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Good-looking PS1 3D games:
- Bushido Blade and its sequel
- Dino Crisis
- Ehrgeiz: God Bless the Ring
- Einhänder
- G-Darius
- Jumping Flash! and its sequel
- Klonoa: Door to Phantomile
- Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver
- Mega Man Legends and its sequel, and spin-off The Misadventures of Tron Bonne
- Metal Gear Solid
- R-Type Delta
- Rival Schools: United by Fate
- Silent Hill
- Soul Blade
- Tekken series
- Vagrant Story
Ranging into partially 3D stuff, there are games that utilize pre-rendered backgrounds with 3D characters and objects on top, like the Final Fantasy series, Resident Evil series, Parasite Eve, Chrono Cross etc., and games that do the opposite, with 2D sprites on top of 3D environments, like Grandia, Xenogears or Breath of Fire series.
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I love both of those games. Back in the day, they were the prettiest thing second to Ocarina of Time (you have to put nostalgia glasses and remember that the best games on the N64 after these were usually Rareware games like Banjo Tooie and Conker's Bad Fur Day... and nothing on the PSX except maybe Metal Gear was as cool in terms of true 3D exploration games).
It's true that they haven't aged well though. Still, they're a fun random romp.
Can anyone think of games that, at the time, were pretty ground-breaking, in terms of 3D gameplay and graphics?
The reason I ask is, the N64 games get a lot of flak for not aging well, not being very pretty graphically. I don't recall, however, there being anything that much prettier graphics-wise around those years. I did not own a Playstation 1 for a while and I'm talking strictly 3D Adventure titles.
The stuff I can think of is
N64:
GoldenEye
JetForce Gemini
Conker's Bad Fur Day
Banjo Kazooie
Banjo Tooie
Ocarina of Time
Paper Mario (though that's not really 3D... well it sort of is...)
Super Smash Bros.
And on PS1:
Metal Gear
SoulBlade
Well, that WAS the first generation of 3d on home consoles, so you have to expect that it wouldn't age well. I still like those games though, and I'd add Perfect Dark to the list. That game was a landmark on the N64 for graphics and sound.
But I still like the look of those games for nostalgia purposes, kinda like I really love the art in Rondo of Blood because it represents the look of its time very well.
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I liked Circle of the Moon, hated Ecclesia, loved PoR, loved HD, CV3 on the NES is just a chore,