Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => Hardcore Gaming 101 => Topic started by: Keldor on April 22, 2012, 03:47:19 PM
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I'm on a total snes kick lately, I'm currently working on earthbound and I'm loving it. I was wondering if there were any other titles that were not so popular when they came out but are really good games.
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I would say three games to check out that I don't think are too well known are Skyblazer, Metal Warriors, and Wild Guns.
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Demon's Crest
Cybernator
Wild Guns
Soul Blazer
Do-Re-Mi Fantasy
Battle Clash and Metal Combat (people seem to think the Super Scope's all shit, but they're wrong)
Nosferatu
HyperZone
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Bust A Move/Puzzle Bobble
Cameltry
Super Bomberman 1 through 5
Batman Returns
Gradius III
R-Type III
Super R-Type
Parodius Da!
Gokujou Parodius
Jikkyou Oshaberi Parodius
Phalanx
Super Puyo Puyo 1 and 2 (Tsuu, regular and Remixed)
Pop N Twinbee
Twinbee Rainbow Bell Adventure
Sparkster
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I can get behind Batman Returns...tenderly...sexually.
Got that game for real cheap not long after it came out and it blew my mind. Really Class A beat 'em up that mixes up the gameplay frequently.
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Metal Warriors
Tales of Phantasia
Ball Bullet Gun
Kikikaikai 2/Pocky & Rocky
Kikikaikai 3/Pocky & Rocky 2 (in case the prequel was too hard for you)
Front Mission
Yoshi's Safari (hey, I liked it)
Fuck, I dunno. Just go to RomNation or RomWorld or CoolRoms and download anything you can find and try them out. That's how I built up my library of games I have yet to play.
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there are so many, I like both Breath of Fire games. Wonder Project (in japanese but I think you can get a patch in romhacking), Harvest Moon is nice too. Illusion of Gaia, Lufia II, Secret of Evermore.
There's a game called Shadowrun and the last one I played was one called Dragon View, not that great on critics but I liked it. I thought it was pretty interesting how they tried to combine 2D gameplay with 3D exploration already on the Super Nintendo, that's cool. I also liked the way to narrate the story in that game.
Umm Terranigma, Chrono Trigger, Brain Lord (super short game, if you can pass the puzzles), Violinist of Hamlin (in japanese, get the patch), Maui Mallard, Kirby Super Star, Lagoon.
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Sparkster and Actraiser are both good.
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Wahhhaaaa....no SECRET OF MANA on the list??? NO CHRONO TRIGGER???? Those games are what made me like RPG's not to mention FF7 &8 for ps1(though SoM was action/rpg). Anyone dig Sid Meier's Civilization or was that just me? SMW kicked ass too! So many good title that it's hard to say. One game i didn't like was the rocketeer. A waste of money!! It shouldnt' ever make the list!
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Super Castlevania 4, Final Fantasy II and III (IV and VI in Japan).
My personal top 3.
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Let's see...how popular was Final Fight 3 when it came out again?
Also, the thread title should be changed to Recommended Obscure SNES Games for clarification, I mistook it for another noob thread at first.
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Oooh I totally forgot about Violinist Hameln. That game was fun. It was based on the Violinist Hameln OVA (the series was a lot darker). The game and OVA are just so twisted and wrong. :D
Deae Tonosama Appare Ichiban. Don't know what it means and don't care. It's similar to Pocky&Rocky. ... To be more precise, it's like Pocky & Rocky meets Cho Aniki. ... Those in the know know and I need not say more.
If you want a cute puzzle game, try out Araiguma Rascal (Rascal The Raccoon). It's a horizontal piece-matching puzzle game loosely inspired by an old anime. And if you are really hip to video gaming, you should recognize the game's theme song (other than that it's from the anime).
If you want to relive the classic game of Qix, you can get Cacoma Knight. It's the same as the classic but with cute graphics.
Clocktower. Not really obscure I guess, but I'll throw it out there.
Go! Go! Ackman series. Based on one of Akira Toriyama's cute manga series by the same name.
Sword World. Based on DnD.
Fushigi No Dungeon 2. Sequel to the game Pokemon Mystery Dungeon was based on. The sequel to FnD2 was on the Playstation, I think.
One of the Great Battle games. Not sure which, maybe it was Great Battle 5. One of those SD Ultraman/Kamen Rider games. It's a bit of a variety pack.
GeGeGe no Kitarou: Fukkatsu! Tenma Daiou. It's just boss fight after boss fight after boss fight. I'm not exaggerating.
Lord Monarch. Ok, so the game sucks. But it was the first Falcom game I ever played and I loved it to death at the time. Played it on my computer. Didn't even know it was on the SNES until years later.
Lost Vikings. Don't think this is obscure, but that's just me. Fun game.
Shounen (or Shonen) Ninja Sasuke. Pretty typical beat'em-up but fun, cute game.
Super Famicom Wars. No reason necessary.
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I'm slipping, someone mentioned Kiki Kaikai 2 and it's sequel (original Kiki Kaikai was a Taito arcade game, so the two SNES games are technically 2 and 3) and I forgot to mention them.
Maybe it's the fact I own more Genesis games these days than SNES.
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I'm on a total snes kick lately, I'm currently working on earthbound and I'm loving it. I was wondering if there were any other titles that were not so popular when they came out but are really good games.
Into Earthbound lately? So AM I! So much that I've rearranged some of its music, teehee. :D
Here's some of the latest:
Battle Against a Machine - Earthbound - Mother 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMhLPiG1juM#)
Dusty Dunes Desert - Yucca Desert - Super Dry Dance - Earthbound - Mother 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBhyhRCYQvk#)
Humoresque of a Little Dog - Buy Somethin' WIll Ya - Shop Theme - Earthbound - Mother 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlgIFGkim8M#)
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No one has mentioned Star ocean yet? I do plan to play it later on, but
Tales of Phantasia
Fuck, I dunno. Just go to RomNation or RomWorld or CoolRoms and download anything you can find and try them out. That's how I built up my library of games I have yet to play.
Too funny for me I just started doing this rom stuff and coolroms to play tales of phantasia, earthbound, and of course dragon warriorI-III(but I do not understand japanese for the snes versions :'() I love dwIII overworld theme. Yeah 16-bit rpgs are awesome. And here is a question is there such a thing as a controller for the pc not like a joystick but a retro control something tells me there is but I am too lazy to search right now. keyboards feel awkward when fighting a battle in tales of phantasia not used to keyboard playing :-[
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Wahhhaaaa....no SECRET OF MANA on the list??? NO CHRONO TRIGGER????
Figured OP was asking for lesser known games.
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Let's see...how popular was Final Fight 3 when it came out again?
This game is tits. Recently played through it. Made even sweeter by my owning two Hori arcade sticks for the Wii. Makes pulling off moves soooo much easier and more fun.
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tokimeki memorial do not understand a lick of it, but man it's like oh sh<? something went up when you study/workout. Also got it for like 5.00$
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I can't play without a keyboard. When my buddies and I play 2D fighters, I get my ass handed to me on consoles. But if we play a rom on my computer and i'm on a keyboard (they get a DualShock), I kick ass using the keyboard. The only time I have much problem is when I have to do double half-circles and shit (Musashi in Last Blade). But yes there are SNES pads for the PC out there. Ebay them or ask GameStop. For the SneS, a DualShock will suffice, though.
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Dungeon Master. The SNES version improved on the Atari version by adding in background music. I really like most of the tracks as they helped with the atmosphere. the 'Hall of Heros' is my personal fave.
Ys 3: Wanderers form Ys. Not really an obscure title as it was available for more then one system at that time.
Ys 4: Mask of the Sun. Obscure for the fact that it was never imported over to the US. Though with a patch you can play it in English.
Ys 5: Sand city of Kefin. More obscure then Ys 4 and not just because were all still waiting for the English patch to be finished... >:(
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Blackhawke/Blackthorne - A very dark and atmospheric Prince of Persia style platformer with GUNS! There is a GBA port too but the SNES version is where it's at.
Plok! - Fun and pretty challenging platformer with a main character with removable limbs. Forget NeverDead, Plok is the real deal.
Uniracers/Unirally - Many people seem to hate this game but I had plenty of fun with it! It's a pretty unique racing game that really has more in common with Sonic than anything else in the genre. Dunno how "obscure" this game is though but I nevee hear people talking about it.
Lady Stalker - Spiritual sequel to Genesis classic Landstalker. It's only in japanese but there may be a patch somewhere? I got pretty far in the japanese version though and it's worth checking out.
Energy Breaker - Taito JRPG I know very little about, but I know I really wanna play it in english. The little I've played reminded me of Final Fantasy Tactics, complete with isometric graphics and lovely sprites!
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Ardy Lightfoot
Congo's Caper
Donkey Kong series
Goemon
Hook
Joe and Mac I & II
Magical Quest I & II
Musya
Pocky and Rocky
Rockman and Forte
Shin Megami Tensei
Super Bonk
Super Mario RPG
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Blackhawke/Blackthorne - A very dark and atmospheric Prince of Persia style platformer with GUNS! There is a GBA port too but the SNES version is where it's at.
I'm behind this, too. It's a bit of a shame Blizzard didn't make more games like their Super Nintendo stuff before spending a million years on each game. Blackthorne, Lost Vikings, Rock n' Roll Racing... Good fun. Gotta play The Death and Return of Superman all the way through, which I remember being a pretty fun beat 'em up.
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wow, lots of awesome suggestions on here that I've never even heard of.
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Cannot go wrong with fire emblem and someone already mentioned y's and also super robot wars to bad it's in japanese :( what else am I missing at the moment there is alot,but some are just escaping me at the moment.
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Blackhawke/Blackthorne - A very dark and atmospheric Prince of Persia style platformer with GUNS! There is a GBA port too but the SNES version is where it's at.
Good game. Really good game. Hard as f**k in some areas but still fun to play.
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Actaully i forgot about the final fights. I loved all 3 of them. Plus totall forgot to mention Link to the Past!!! Loved that when i first got it. I remeber i coultn' play it right away cause i was going to cape cod. Got their and stayed up all night playing that shit!!! Yells yeah!
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Super Metroid
Contra III
TMNT IV: Turtles in Time
Zelda: A Link to the Past
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i really wasn't thrilled with the first Final Fight for the SNES as elements were cut out or changed, and Guy wasn't in it :P. The Arcade version is the best by far. But I also enjoyed FF2 and FF3. FF3 was interesting due to having Guy returne and looking like he does from the Street Fighter Alpha series.
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Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War. It's less known due to it only coming out in Japan. You'll need an English patch if you can't read Japanese.
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Yeah, the first SNES Final Fight leaves much to be desired, but it's still a good port. I prefer playing the SFC version since it's uncensored (e.g., has Poison, has names like Damnd and Sodom, and I think might still have the blood but maybe that was cut out of all versions). It's fun if just to hear the SNES sounds, but I prefer playing the arcade original.
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Blackhawke/Blackthorne - A very dark and atmospheric Prince of Persia style platformer with GUNS! There is a GBA port too but the SNES version is where it's at.
Plok! - Fun and pretty challenging platformer with a main character with removable limbs. Forget NeverDead, Plok is the real deal.
Uniracers/Unirally - Many people seem to hate this game but I had plenty of fun with it! It's a pretty unique racing game that really has more in common with Sonic than anything else in the genre. Dunno how "obscure" this game is though but I nevee hear people talking about it.
Lady Stalker - Spiritual sequel to Genesis classic Landstalker. It's only in japanese but there may be a patch somewhere? I got pretty far in the japanese version though and it's worth checking out.
Energy Breaker - Taito JRPG I know very little about, but I know I really wanna play it in english. The little I've played reminded me of Final Fantasy Tactics, complete with isometric graphics and lovely sprites!
The best version of Blackthorne was on the 32X, but the SNES one is still good.
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There is a translation patch for Lady Stalker almost done by the best in town. So I suggest holding out for that. (I can't wait for this one to be done already!)
Lady Stalker SNES Opening Cinematic, in English (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WniWlthlX6g#)
Go here for more info; http://agtp.romhack.net/project.php?id=lady (http://agtp.romhack.net/project.php?id=lady)
Landstalker for Genesis is a game that pretty much made not having Zelda no problem, if it wasn't better then Zelda? (Though honestly, I can't replay Zelda SNES anymore. Tried twice or more (even on GBA bored out of my mind to reach a destination & I still ended up more bored with Zelda :P. I just know it too well to enjoy it at all anymore... It was an amazing first experience way back when the game was new and SNES was my very first 16-Bit baby. Ah, I can still remember being blown away by the rain and my childhood imagination being blown away by that scene under the bridge :)). So I'm really curious to how the SNES sequel holds ups? By the looks of it, I shouldn't be disappointed. :)
SNES games? I don't, try the Shining Force series! ... oops, wrong system. >_>
... no wait, I play just as much SNES as Genesis or any other retro system (all from NES and before Dreamcast is gold to me), so I'm sure I can think of something?... Ah yes! Try Dracula XX/Vampire Killer/some funny Japanese name/org. Now your playing with power. :)
Oh wait, my fav Mega Man X was actually 3. Even thought that's the one I have no warm nostalgic memories of from the past out of the first 4. Just seemed like the most refined game in that series to me... better go to the Mega Men thread soon next to get it all out...
I never could get into Super Metroid for some reason? Made it pretty far twice, then just lost the urge to go on anymore... I did beat both GBA games, and I dreaded going though the hidden NES original on Zero Missions, but once I finally managed to make it past the 5 min mark, I was hooked beyond belief! :o Massive strong nostalgic memories about what games were really all about hit like nothing else before!
RPG wise, yeah, I thought FF6 was the best, even though Chrono Trigger was my first RPG that blew my mind away. Something you might not expect is Breath of Fire 1. Not 2, which kinda ruined my BoF1 playthrough because I was rushing through it to get to the supposed much improved in every category sequel... yet disappointed me beyond words... you may like it more, but not me. It's flawed too. Part 1 was a classical magical experience I'll never forget. ... But would you believe that my fav 16-Bit RPG is Shining in the Darkness for Sega Genesis?!?!? Yeah, this one was a shocker to me too, as I had many failed attempt trying to play that one, but once I got past a certain point. Bam! What an amazing experience! ... you probably won't like it, many don't (but personally I think most ruin it by playing it with an on-line map or making their own... trying to keep track at where I was at & exploring made tedious RPG turn based battles very tolerable + that game's world and atmosphere was like no other & it was like YOU were right there! ... game was very well balanced too for playing without a map... play with a map and you'll need to powerlevel to stand a chance, thus not fun).
F-Zero is my fav 16-Bit racer by far.
Hmm, looks like I killed enough time? Time to get ready to head out into the real world. ... I'll see if I can think of anything else for when I come back?
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And for all you Genesis haters out there, the group that made Landstalker, Ladystalker (that sounds so wrong), and the Shining Force series (not to be confused with the shit that was on the Playstations and Gameboy Advance) went on to make the Mario sports games. If it was a sports title and it had Mario in it, they probably made it.
Also, Landstalker and Shining Force had some of the best concept and manual artwork ever. If you ever got your hands on a Landstalker/Shining Force game manual, then modern game manuals just make you shed tears of dismay.
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I actually really enjoyed Shinning Force. I thought the first one had a really cool ending. I've only played 1 and 2 though.
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And for all you Genesis haters out there,
Maybe I just haven't been paying attention, but I don't think there are any Genesis haters here. :p Nintendo vs. Sega is so two decades ago.
I was a Nintendo fanboy all my life and never had a Sega system and still prefer the SNES to the Genesis, but the latter is a kick-ass system and I'm happy to finally be playing a bunch of cool games for it.
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And for all you Genesis haters out there, the group that made Landstalker, Ladystalker (that sounds so wrong), and the Shining Force series (not to be confused with the shit that was on the Playstations and Gameboy Advance) went on to make the Mario sports games. If it was a sports title and it had Mario in it, they probably made it.
Also, Landstalker and Shining Force had some of the best concept and manual artwork ever. If you ever got your hands on a Landstalker/Shining Force game manual, then modern game manuals just make you shed tears of dismay.
There usually seems to be some confusion in regards to this. I'll clear this quickly;
Camelot made the first two Shining games (SitD & SF1) with the help of Climax, since they were so small. For Shining Force 2 they hired enough new guys to make it themselves, but very sadly the artwork suffered a lot (in my opinion) due to Climax not helping anymore. But the beautiful artwork followed in the other Climax games like Landstalker (which was at one point supposed to be tied in with the Shining Force series. Why the hero of this game, and it's spiritual sequel called Alundra, looks like Max from Shining Force 1. I couldn't believe it when I seen the ad for Alundra in EGM :o). All the Mario related sports were made my Camelot, not Climax.... Camelot or the Shining series alone are by far my fav developers. They also opened my eyes big time for proper game design & difficulty balance. ie. their SRPGs don't require any powerleveling for any difficulty level + simple & arcade like controls/setup, and at the same time also very deep enough to be still challenging as you get used to every difficulty level & forever replayable... But yeah, simplicity = excellent design & balance. Complexity leads to... well just look at the mess that is Final Fantasy Tactics. ;D
I actually really enjoyed Shinning Force. I thought the first one had a really cool ending. I've only played 1 and 2 though.
Play part 3 (it has a fan translation for Scenario 2 & 3 now. Find the patch at Shining Force Central now!). It's the one that got me into the series and my fav game ever (not all three Scenarios combined, by either one of them alone is enough... together they blow my mind away!!! + when I first discovered these games (only Shining Force 3 Scenarios), I played nothing but them for almost a year straight... and I had no job or other worries taking away my free gaming time!!!! :D ... a better gaming time will never exist again. :( The Shining series has been long dead... so maybe it's best not to have your heart broken and never discover these games for yourself. :'()
Maybe I just haven't been paying attention, but I don't think there are any Genesis haters here. :p Nintendo vs. Sega is so two decades ago.
I was a Nintendo fanboy all my life and never had a Sega system and still prefer the SNES to the Genesis, but the latter is a kick-ass system and I'm happy to finally be playing a bunch of cool games for it.
That's nice to hear, but trust me, they are out there and here. Because they are everywhere. I find Nintendo biased fans to be way more crazy and blind then Sega fans, because they think they are far superior due to their system having the best graphics and sounds. While many Sega fans, sadly, admit to having inferior graphics and sound... me, I see pros and cons in these areas for both systems... and as strange as it may be to most, Sega Genesis' graphics and sounds are what won me over from being more of an SNES fan... yes, in grade school I was the one making fun of Genesis. :D But by the tailend of the 16-Bit era before i even knew it I was a Sega fan... Thank goodness by Dad bought me a Genesis right aways after my Mom bought me an SNES, otherwise I may of ended up a blind SNES fan too.
Reason why I like Genesis graphics are many. For one; it's the resolution which very strongly remind me of Arcade games. Same with the Sega Saturn over PS1. The other is the 256 total colours & less then 64 on screen lead to bolder more primary colours that I very much prefer over something like the faded comic book look of say Super Castlevania 4 (yes I went there :D ... you see, I played this game just before SotN, so I never got what all the fuss was about it's graphics outside of a very few examples.. and I'm not talking mode 7 :P). And with less colours, artists were forced to be more creative, and when they were, they blew me away. Genesis game also could make real places like images of real people in the Strike series look real, unlike cheap cartoons drawings they looked in the SNES version. Another example is Terminator VS Robocop, even though it was made by two different developers, trust me (because I have yet to see this), the SNES version could never come close to looking as real and gritty as the Genesis version... Also, Genesis games look wrong in their pixel perfect form on emulator (and what do most people nowadays play Genesis game one if they aren't Genesis fans? That's right, they will forever remain blind). They need to be played on a TV via composite or S-Video connection, otherwise you lose lose extra colours from pixel blending and you end up with dithered & pixelated graphics instead... even if Genesis game don't use this technique, they still look way better. ie. Shining Force 1 looks like an amazing drawn & smooth edged cartoon out of Disney VS the pixelated blocky look of otherwise... yes, you can achieve a TV affect with emulators too, but if your not far away enough from monitor, it can look pretty blurry... unless you use Blargg's NTSC filter with it's a ton of TV option in custom settings... but Gens emu sounds sound pretty lame/off sometime, like especially for Castlevania Bloodlines, sadly. :(
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I play Genesis games on a 480i TV via S-Video emulating through my Wii. :) Looks awesome. Dunno if that creates any of the problems you mentioned, but for me it gives me the sharp visuals plus the glow of a scanlined tube TV. Genesis Virtual Console games also look amazing. I never wanna plug a Genesis into a TV again (unless I get a Sega CD or something and feel like modding everything for S-Video out).
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Shining Force III took everything that was great about Shining Force and built upon it to make one of the greatest SRPGs ever. Seriously, the game has so much in it. Tons of characters with their own personalities (sure, they are limited by classes and even use the same models between classes and at later levels you don't care much about the new additions). Great music fans of the Shining series have grown to love. Tons of bosses. Lots of spells. Hidden items both in and out of combat. Tomb raiding!! Multi-front battles (which occur when you raid a tomb). Great story. And THREE distinct stories that all come together in the final scenario. It's not just three games in one, it's one game in three!
Also there's Shining The Holy Ark (Shining Wisdom I wasn't impressed by). Shining The Holy Ark has always been and always will be one of my all-time favorite games. It was what got me hooked on the Saturn. It's a pretty straight-forward dungeon crawler with some hidden secrets. Gorgeous graphics (for its time). EXCELLENT music! OMG the haunted forest's theme! That song creeps the fuck out of me even to this very day! The town theme is so beautiful. The shop theme is so damn upbeat and catchy! And the ending... Unfortunately I have the Jap version so it's not as sad now when I play it, but I remember crying when I beat the US version when i was a kid. And the nostalgia/omg-I-recognize-that factor of the game is great. 3D versions of some enemies from Shining In The Darkness. And some of the character animations are reminiscent of Shining Force and Shining Force II battle animations.
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I play Genesis games on a 480i TV via S-Video emulating through my Wii. :) Looks awesome. Dunno if that creates any of the problems you mentioned, but for me it gives me the sharp visuals plus the glow of a scanlined tube TV. Genesis Virtual Console games also look amazing. I never wanna plug a Genesis into a TV again (unless I get a Sega CD or something and feel like modding everything for S-Video out).
*purist mode on*
Boooo booooo, real hardware man, I don't find the Genesis visuals all that bad on an LCD TV, I just love owning real carts of Genesis games, stuff that will never even be on the VC. ;D
For the life of me I own only 1 Mega Drive game on VC, and only because it costs an arm and a leg, Super Fantasy Zone.
*purist mode off*
edit: in before get a CRT TV. But that's ok, more Genesis games for me then. ;D
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Eh, emulation for some consoles has come so far that it's practically indistinguishable from the real deal. :p Hunting down carts costs too much and often they're in bullshit condition. Plus Genesis games look like garbage on composite video and I don't really care to mod one to have S-Video out.
Then there's all those different sound chips. :p To get a Genesis with the best video and audio, you'd have to do quite a bit of modding and parts swapping. Emulation has it all right there and ready to go, and I don't need to have a clunky console sitting about.
And I've never had a Genesis controller which didn't have either a busted D-pad or a cord that's no more than three feet long. :p Screw that, I'll play with my Super Famicom Classic Controllers. The Genesis console itself is bullshit on so many levels.
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What system is Shinning Force 3 for because I'll be willing to try it. From what I'm reading it sounds good.
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You know, I'm not sure if S-Video is good enough? Actually, I don't think it is? I think your screwed? If you don't like composite, Sega Genesis is not for you. Quick way to check is S-Video is good enough or not is fire up Bloodlines, and during the pre-level or pre-map screen, check if the clouds are transparent or not (dithered. ie. clouds with very many tinny holes in them). If not, your screwed from getting the best Genesis image. Don't believe me? Fire up a game like Comix Zone. Without colour blending the game looks like total dithered shit. With colour blending the game looks like an actual comic. Very simple comparison, and I've made my choice a long time ago. For me, if you have the right TV, right size and/or distance away from it, Genesis games looks clear and amazing to me.
Oh, and your playing Genesis games on a current console? But I have yet to see a current console with 6 face buttons. And a pad without 6 face buttons ain't Sega material. Sorry, you lose out on another great Sega pleasure. ... Their D-Pad are the best in the business too. As I have yet to feel any better.
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Uh, what. S-Video is simply a video signal which has less interference and better color reproduction, resulting in a more hi-fi image. You're actually telling me the Genesis OUGHT to be viewed through 1950s video technology? ;p What next, "You're not having a true NES experience unless you're playing with RF, because the unstable signal was intended"?
Also, fighting games aside, are there any games of note which actually use the 6-button controller? Because I've gotten by on three buttons for all these years.
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The odd thing is, dithering is still noticeable with composite. Not as much as when the image is more clear, but the blending creates another problem: rainbow banding. If you're OK with it, fine, but I'm personally happy to put away rainbow banding for good. ;) And the Genesis has so much of it, about as bad as the NES.
Thing is, plenty of PC games used dithering as a gradient technique. And that's PC...where, you know, hi-res monitors have always been the norm. I don't think it's necessary or even intended, really, for there to be color blend. It isn't needed for the shading and transparency effects to work.
I just fired up "Bloodlines" on the Genesis with composite and good Lord... Never again. ;p Sweet, sweet S-Video, I love you so. (Would prefer to have SCART, though! Zero signal interference.)
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http://www.retro-sanctuary.com/comparisons%20-%20differing.html (http://www.retro-sanctuary.com/comparisons%20-%20differing.html)
Enjoy them blocky pixels my boy.
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Dithering wasn't even designed specifically for blending. Did some Genesis developers use it for such? Sure. But seeing dithering as it was drawn, pixel for pixel, isn't a bad thing. :p So I will enjoy those blocky pixels, especially since I don't have to deal with rainbow banding.
Here's (http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?14836-32X-Destruction-of-Saturn&p=325595&viewfull=1#post325595) a pretty interesting thread that shows examples of what I mean.
I like that shot of Space Quest 6 a lot:
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pcedev.net%2Fpics%2Fdither%2Fvga%2Fwilcobdrm6zw.gif&hash=a9238bcf4b0b3c1ebc64703959ed13d25c6aaead)
VGA game. Dithering. Never was intended to be seen through a composite cable.
Yay, rainbow banding!
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.disgruntleddesigner.com%2Fchrisc%2FgotRGB%2Fscreenshots%2Fmd_sonic_comp.jpg&hash=a7fde66f355349026dc1f2e0e8ed756dd27cd7f2) (https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.disgruntleddesigner.com%2Fchrisc%2FgotRGB%2Fscreenshots%2Fmd_sonic_rgb.jpg&hash=66bcd7e0905b17cf7f3684b66dc221ae230e83e8)
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.joeredifer.com%2Fcrap%2Fcast2.jpg&hash=07d3893c7ceee9cfd401f8f033575c130ac12165)
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Wow, Abnormal Freak, you really have shitty luck it seems? Because I've never ever experienced them shitty rainbow effects in my life. My Genesis games with that connection look perfect. Even games designed not to take advantage of the pixel blending looked much better to me. If I couldn't experience Genesis graphics this way, I'd lose my mind... But you seem to be fine with it, so good for you.
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Those effects have been there. I don't know how you missed 'em.
I have a Genesis3 (the crappiest one, I know) but I play using Genesis Plus on my Wii.
You can argue that it makes the graphics more 'endearing', if you will... but down in the core it's the game programmers overcoming a console's limitation by using it in a positive manner. However, the screens look better without it.
My clouds are transparent on Genesis3 and with little checkerboarded dot holes in the emulator (however, I can disable that end emulate the S-Video as Abnormal Freak said, so now that's an OPTION rather than something I'm stuck with, so sometimes I turn 'em on if I'm feeling 80's/90's nostalgic).
It's funny, this exact problem is the reason people (in general) have a dislike for the Saturn version of Symphony of the Night.
Because they play the game as an ISO on an emulator, a lot of the 'blended effects' (exactly what you just described) looked like checkerpatterned-holed issues in an emulator with a good screen.
I have played the game both emulated (Crisper, but it has an odd resolution and the effects are very rough-looking) and on the actual Saturn hardware (blurrier but now it resembles the PSX version a helluvalot more).
I'll take the blocky pixels and the smoothed ones. I can because I have wonderful emulation filters like Freak does (we both have modded Wiis).
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I don't use the S-Video filter on Genesis Plus, just have the Wii hooked up with S-Video. :)
I did bust out the Genesis (model 1) and compare two games with Gen+. The composite filter gives a good approximation of the blending. In ways it's not as good, but in other ways it's better because the colors are richer and black levels more solid due to the S-Video cable (and the blending didn't look much different when I hooked my Wii with composite, just lower quality). So if I ever have need to see the Genesis blending, I can switch that on and still keep my clunky Genesis in the closet. :p
Anyway, rainbow banding has always been there. The Genesis is known for its horrid composite output and all models are affected. It's possible a model 2 Gen handles things better than a model 1 if you have a model 2. I don't know firsthand since I've never had a model 2.
I got pics of my "experiment" mentioned above. I'll post them later; I'm on my phone 'cos my Internet's out.
By the way, the Sega Nomad doesn't have color blending. ;) Also, the first two Genesis models were designed to be RGB/SCART-ready out of the box. If the system was never intended to be seen with sharp graphics, Sega wouldn't have built in the option. Note how the A/V port has all those extra holes...
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Woo, here we go! ;)
Genesis Plus, composite filter
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/528020_10150851057150435_690670434_12233896_1373139923_n.jpg)
Genesis Plus, no filter
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/576394_10150851057390435_690670434_12233899_2088664393_n.jpg)
Genesis Plus, no filter
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/527518_10150851057545435_690670434_12233902_160104926_n.jpg)
Genesis Plus, composite filter
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/581109_10150851057725435_1938281689_n.jpg)
Genesis model 1
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/525960_10150851057870435_690670434_12233906_882909833_n.jpg)
Nomad
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/579191_10150851058030435_690670434_12233908_1970504403_n.jpg)
Now, these cellphone pics aren't the most representative of detail and color, but you can see enough at least that the Genesis Plus with composite filter has some pretty good blending and also deeper colors. It doesn't blend perfectly, but it has less "splotchy" spots than the Genesis. And you can see dithering even on the Genesis at parts, especially on a game like Earthworm Jim where there's so freaking much of it.
I will say that color blending on the Genesis gives it a special charm in that you see the artistry a bit better. As I said above, dithering wasn't designed with blending in mind, it's just a shading effect and plenty of PC VGA games used dithering extensively—both line and checkerboard dithering; but it was obviously intended to be blended on the Genesis, so I may very well play the Genesis Plus emulator with the composite filter from time to time, just because it's a good approximation and I still get the added color dynamic and clarity of an S-Video cable. ;) So it still kicks the pants off an original Genesis.
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I admit that, though I have a Genesis(3), I do most of my Genesis gaming on my Wii.
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Can't blame ya. The Genesis 3 has even shittier video than the first two models. :p
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I love my Saturn. Yamaha soundchip all the way, baby!
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Hmm, my eyes might need checking as I don't recall seeing crazy rainbow effects like those when playing my Genesis game on a TV (or dragging emulation of monitor to TV). But I have been playing mostly on emulator & monitor only recently until I move to a better place and unpack my gaming collection.
For emulation, I usually use Kega Fusion, with the blurriest composite setting on, lol. Plus 25% scanline to help reduce the blurring a tad, and "brighten monitor" feature to help counteract the darkened screen a bit from the 25% scanline. And the fact that my face is at least 6 feet away from my monitor helps too (I lay on a long couch lengthwise at all time in front of my monitor at the end of the couch past my feet on a table). But the best way to go for emulating the TV + even better still is the "Blargg's NTSC Filter" filter for a Gens emulator. You got many things at your control (can set it for composite, S-Video, RGB, plus mess around with setting to have a combination of all these 3 types or whatever). With this one, I usually go for the RGB setting with more colour blend (about 25% or more). So yeah, just get this plugging and put it in the pluggin folder... only problem with this emu, and one reason why I don't use it much is because I can't always keep fullscreen mode in it's normal aspect ratio mode. ie. for Bloodlines it'll be fine until it's gets to the character select screen & during gameplay, as this is when the game's resolution mode switches higher or lower (haven't checked which one) and the screen goes widescreen. Lame. :( And I can't stand playing in windowed mode. :P
For Sega Saturn via SSF emulator, there is an option to turn dithered graphics into transparency (for both 2D & 3D). So Saturn SotN fans rejoice (though it's still not as good as PS1 transparency)...but the funny thing is that for some reason I usually don't mind dithered graphics for Saturn gaming, and actually usually prefer it. Strange that I can't stand it for Genesis games but don't mind it for Saturn games. :D
Can't blame ya. The Genesis 3 has even shittier video than the first two models. :p
Hey, Abnormal Freak, can you compare which Genesis emulator has better sound emulation between Kega Fusion and one of the Gens emulator? Because I find the Gens emulators to sound kinda weird. Especially for Bloodlines.
I love my Saturn. Yamaha soundchip all the way, baby!
Yeah, I'm a Saturn fan too. Too bad that system didn't last... or at least the Dreamcast didn't cut it's life short... Dreamcast era, even though I had that too, was when my interest in gaming died and went in hibernation for quite some time until recently. Took a bit to get back into gaming too. But maybe because the Saturn was there during the lat of my best gaming days is why I cherish that system so much? ... Course I had a Playstation as well, but I was never really too fond of that systems exclusive titles for the most part. ... though now I'm able to find some really good games of interest to me for it too. For me, the games of most interest to me are from the 8-bit era to the 32-Bit era. So I always play games for any one of these systems during these periods... but when I'm in the mood for Sega and/or playing a Sega console like Genesis and Saturn with a great game for it, there really isn't a better gaming feeling for me. Really hard to explain in few words... or any words? :-\ But if you can relate with another system, then that's awesome.
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Oh yeah, I forgot to mention. @Abnormal Freak; not all dithered graphics were meant to blend. So yeah, some were intentionally meant to look dithered (ie. if there is too much space between two pixels, or resolution is too low in either the vertical of horizontal = to much space between pixels, the two pixels won't blend).
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Meanwhile, in SNES land, I've been playing a bit of Sunset Riders lately. I dunno why I love that game so much. It's part nostalgia but I'd also argue that it IS a pretty fun game.
But since we're talking Genesis here I'll just say that I adore both Landstalker, Shining Force and Shining Force 2. Oh, and Phantasy Star 4, in case people couldn't already tell. I'm still looking for a SRPG that plays like Shining Force but I'm always a bit let down. I finished Jeanne D'Arc on the PSP lately and it was alright, but what made the early Shining Force games so great was that you did more than just fight. I like exploring towns and stuff, but those days are probably gone. (Yes, I'm looking at you Fire Emblem, Final Fantasy Tactics and so on.) You never get to explore anymore. It's all menus and cutscenes. :(
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Sunset Riders is fun, and Konami sure had a way of translating their arcade games to console which IMO is a lot more impressive than how Capcom ever did it.
Just wish the implied whore-bangin' were left intact. ;)
Sinful: I guess I wouldn't exactly know which would sound accurate, but Genesis Plus has multiple audio options, including two "core" sound systems.
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Sorry for resurrecting an old thread, but both Gundam and fighting game fans should check this out:
GWED online match (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1VxE4NodF4#)
I dare say this is one of the best fighting games on the SNES.
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Well this thread makes me feel a lot less bad about just using RCA instead of springing for a SCART-to-Component converter for my Genesis lol. Also in that thread Abnormal Freak linked to
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Man I forgot about this clone, I wish I could play it. It looks so cool in an unbelievably cheesy sort of way.
Also VladCT have you played any of the semi-sequels? I've got Battle Assault 2 and it's a fairly solid 2D fighter for the PS1, not a stitch on Darkstalkers 3 but then no fighting game is. It has a nicely varied roster from across several Gundam series though. The English Gundam Wing cast even provides voice clips, though unfortunately (imo) all of the GW mechs are the Endless Waltz versions. So no Tallgeese 1 :(
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Not really, but I can't say I liked the idea of being limited to three supers per match instead of having a rechargeable super bar.
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Rusty plays pretty well.
It's like a cross between the Castlevania Adventure games (it's got ropes and climbing), Vampire Killer (it's got keys and doors), and Castlevania Legends (female protagonist with a whip).
The music for it rocks, too.