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The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: RichterB on May 12, 2012, 05:44:26 AM

Title: Castlevania N64: What was Lost to History?
Post by: RichterB on May 12, 2012, 05:44:26 AM
I'm digging through the N64 articles on this site and IGN, and I already picked up a few new things I didn't know or that added insights/confirmation from the development of the game(s):

A.) Originally, you were going to be able to do the whip-wiggle manipulation move from Super Castlevania IV, SotN, HoD, etc by holding the attack button and moving the analog stick around.

B.) Originally, it looks like some sort of one-on-one versus mode was going to be included, ala, quote, "Virtua Fighter" and "Tekken." Some people have interpreted this as some sort of boss rush mode or even as a game made up of linear boss stages. It's unclear what exactly the director meant. He stated it likely wouldn't make it in, though, due to time constraints on developing the main quests.

C.) Francis Ford Coppola's Bram Stoker's Dracula and Neil Jordan's Interview with a Vampire were used as visual references.

D.) Originally, the night and day mechanic was more advanced. Vampires behaved differently according the amount of light, and could be destroyed by being tricked into direct sunlight. Also, your field of vision would narrow during night, allowing more enemies to sneak up on you.

E.) Originally, Cornell had no primary ranged attacks.

F.) As of January 1998, the game was roughly only 10% complete. That's a quick turnaround for what would be a January 1999 release.

G.) Mario 64 and Tomb Raider II were noted as being similar in terms of basic movement controls by its creators.

H.) Character names shifted quite a bit. Carrie "Eastfield." Reinhardt once had the Belmont surname, and something similar to Reinhardt's name was once attached to Cornell as a surname.

I.) Characters had multiple endings based on specific player choices. There is one instance of this in the final product, but it was more complex originally, with a system based on conforming or contradicting a given character's personality.

J.) Moon phases would affect certain enemies' strengths.

K.) Cornell's sister was once a werewolf who was executed by villagers.

L.) The Crystals were originally replaced by a power meter that drains.

M.) Director was a fan of Castlevania long before he began work on CV64, which he was excited about. Like IGA, CVIII was his favorite in the series.

N.) There was talk of gathering information to find Dracula, perhaps like Simon's Quest. Villager's houses are mentioned, along with indoor locations where villagers may turn into vampires in the shadows.

O.) Various heroes might prove to be bosses depending on who you play amongst the 4.

P.) For Legacy of Darkness, the director and producer spent time in Transylvania where they watched a festival-marathon of black-and-white Dracula movies (which they found more tedious than helpful).

Q.) Originally supposed to take place around the same time as Richter Belmont's quests.

R.) Originally, there would be hidden moves for the characters not noted in the instructions, which I take to mean something along the lines of Richter's flying kick, uppercut, etc from SotN.

S.) The following links show or mention other lost elements, including a larger game world, Cornell's wall-jump, Reinhardt's ability to swing across gaps (ala CV4), super attacks (ala item crashes), other status ailments/cures/boosts/event items, etc:

http://www.unseen64.net/articles/castlevania-64-beta-analysis/ (http://www.unseen64.net/articles/castlevania-64-beta-analysis/)

(11:40-12:54 of the following) Season 3 Playback Castlevania: Legacy Of Darkness Review (https://youtu.be/wkgRvxUphK0?t=696)

Unused art/character designs within the following gallery. (i.e. There's a scientist-looking vampire and a red-haired woman perhaps related to Coller's quest)...
http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/multi/officialart.htm#cv64 (http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/multi/officialart.htm#cv64)

Does anyone know of anything else, or maybe further clarifications? I thought I once read that Cornell and Koller/Kola would have been prisoners that needed to be rescued to be played ala CVIII, but I can't find the corresponding article anymore...

Given everything that ended up in the two games**, and the fact that there was still quite a bit of innovative or dynamic material left over and unused, it's amazing that this was the very first attempt at a 3D game or a Castlevania game by these developers. The learning curve was huge, but they gave it 100%, even if deadlines caught up to them. They had crazy ambition here. It seems between the change in direction for 3D Castlevania over the last decade, a good deal of these ideas will be lost to history.

**A footnote: CV64 accomplishments that DID make it in the game:
*Multiple unique characters (up to four in LoD, two in CV64) with alternate levels/bosses
*Full 3D gameplay (ala Mario 64, so it's not "on-rails")
*Multiple endings based on performance
*Level Design features spatial depth (vertical and horizontal--not flat hallways)
*day-and-night cycles with time-sensitive events (like Simon's Quest)
*Weather effects (rain, lightning, moving clouds, and "fog"--the last one likely being a graphical shortcoming that actually helped)
*Dynamic, real-time lighting (next to candles, for instance)
*spot-on atmosphere
*death-defying platforming of all sorts (including ledge grabbing).
*environmental/enemy hazards (medusa heads, spikes, guillotines, buzz-saws, cannons).
*innovative survival-horror/suspense elements
*Vampires that pretend to be human and vampires as regular enemies besides bosses
*status changes, including poison and vampirism
*manageable questing with inventory items (meat, keys, cards, cure ampules, etc)
*interesting, involving plot (characters like Rosa, Vincent, Renon, Malice, Henry, etc)
*3D in-game cinemas
*Some voicing
*Unlockable alternate costumes
*Long and short-ranged attacks (IE: whip + sword)
*upgradable sub-weapons (in LoD)
*There is a useful slide and duck/crawl play mechanic
*Diverse mix of old and new enemies in 3D
Title: Re: Castlevania N64: What was Lost to History?
Post by: Highwind Dragoon on May 12, 2012, 05:55:18 AM
I think the main reason a lot of those features were ditched was:

1. The fact that the n64 cartridge format couldn't handle most of those features in the final game.

2. Konami forced KCEK to rush Castlevania 64, so it could get on the market at the beginning of '99.  (Imagine how much better it would be if they would've released the game in January 2000, instead.)

But yeah, I still like Legacy of darkness, but it's only my 3rd favorite Castlevania game, due to the lack of regular enemies in the later levels.  :(
Title: Re: Castlevania N64: What was Lost to History?
Post by: Lumi Kløvstad on May 12, 2012, 08:49:46 PM
I say we give this team another shot, this time on current or next gen software. Show them that old list and say to them: "remember all this. This time, we'd like it all in the game."
Title: Re: Castlevania N64: What was Lost to History?
Post by: GuyStarwind on May 12, 2012, 09:28:44 PM
I really enjoy Castlevania 64 a bunch. I wish a few of these things were still in it. Mostly I only which they would have kept the Belmont last name though.
Title: Re: Castlevania N64: What was Lost to History?
Post by: crisis on May 12, 2012, 09:31:46 PM
"remember all this. This time, we'd like it all in the game.

And don't forget to add QTE's."
Title: Re: Castlevania N64: What was Lost to History?
Post by: Sinful on May 12, 2012, 11:52:44 PM
Yeah, I've been reading up on this sites scans for this game (and others) and checking out the mags I have for more info as well... only found previews and reviews for this game in EGM so far... though I recall something else, like a feature of the game when it was really early in EGM (like the first running off development computer shots that showed first imaged of the game). But I could be wrong and memory may of mixed things up with something else or something?... Need to check again to see what scans are available here and what's not from what I have.

But yeah, more people saying they really love this/these N64 vania game(s). Interesting, very interesting. And true to form too. ... Wonder if I'll end up thinking the same as I can never fully agree with the masses myself?
Title: Re: Castlevania N64: What was Lost to History?
Post by: Dark Nemesis on May 13, 2012, 10:05:37 AM
"remember all this. This time, we'd like it all in the game.

And don't forget to add QTE's."

Lol!!! ;D
Title: Re: Castlevania N64: What was Lost to History?
Post by: xscientist5000 on May 13, 2012, 01:24:43 PM
Thanks for this list!! It's amazing what could have have been in the game, even though it still turned out to be my fav CV. Mainly because of the survival horror element, cut scenes/story.

"C.) Francis Ford Coppola's Bram Stoker's Dracula and Neil Jordan's Interview with a Vampire were used as visual references."

From Bram Stoker's Dracula there is def the villa fountain and the maze garden. I'm not really sure what else besides Dracula's vampire women if you could even say they came from the movie...

But what is from Interview with the Vampire? The only thing that comes to mind is the Villa house itself. It looks like Brad Pitts farm house that got burned down.
Title: Re: Castlevania N64: What was Lost to History?
Post by: xscientist5000 on May 13, 2012, 01:26:26 PM
Also want to say:

In CV64s Tower of Execution, you can still see the hooks that I strongly think were meant to be whip hook points. They put them in and never took them out.
Title: Re: Castlevania N64: What was Lost to History?
Post by: Pemburu Vampir on May 13, 2012, 01:47:54 PM
Also want to say:

In CV64s Tower of Execution, you can still see the hooks that I strongly think were meant to be whip hook points. They put them in and never took them out.

I want a picture.
Title: Re: Castlevania N64: What was Lost to History?
Post by: Sumac on May 13, 2012, 04:30:17 PM
Villa and Castle appearance were based on real-life castle and mansion. It was noted in the book with CV64 art (scans could be found on CVD).
Title: Re: Castlevania N64: What was Lost to History?
Post by: X on May 13, 2012, 04:36:52 PM
Quote
From Bram Stoker's Dracula there is def the villa fountain and the maze garden. I'm not really sure what else besides Dracula's vampire women if you could even say they came from the movie...

There is also the Big Metal girder stretching across the ceiling in the crypt located beneath the hedge maze. That I noticed would been inspired from Bram Stoker's Dracula as that castle had them all over the place. When I first saw it I instantly knew where they got the idea from.
Title: Re: Castlevania N64: What was Lost to History?
Post by: RichterB on May 13, 2012, 05:26:29 PM
I want a picture.

See picture link below:
http://www.unseen64.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/whippoints-300x225.jpg (http://www.unseen64.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/whippoints-300x225.jpg)

If that fails, go to this link and scroll down until you get to the appropriate picture: http://www.unseen64.net/articles/castlevania-64-beta-analysis/ (http://www.unseen64.net/articles/castlevania-64-beta-analysis/)

One thing I forgot to transcribe here, and I'll edit it in, is that the creators also said there would be hidden moves for the characters not noted in the instructions, which I'd take to mean something along the lines of Richter's flying kick, uppercut, etc from SotN.
Title: Re: Castlevania N64: What was Lost to History?
Post by: Munchy on May 13, 2012, 06:42:09 PM
I say we give this team another shot, this time on current or next gen software.

Unfortunately I think most of who made up KCEK has since left Konami. I remember reading that many of them are now members of Good Feel, who recently made Wario Land Shake It! and Kirby's Epic Yarn.

I would totally be down for a Good Feel made Castlevania though.

"And don't forget to add QTE's."

AAAAUGH

...

...we also would like sex minigames and a story that appeals to America's disenfranchised youths plz
Title: Re: Castlevania N64: What was Lost to History?
Post by: kingu on May 13, 2012, 08:11:23 PM
I.) Characters had multiple endings based on specific player choices. There is one instance of this in the final product, but it was more complex originally, with a system based on conforming or contradicting a given character's personality.

J.) Moon phases would affect certain enemies' strengths.
megaten????????
Title: Re: Castlevania N64: What was Lost to History?
Post by: Reinhart77 on May 14, 2012, 03:35:00 AM
thanks for all that trivia about what could have been.

i've been playing some Kid Icarus on the 3DS.  after playing a castle-like stage, couldn't help but drool over the thought of playing a Castlevania 64 remake on the system.  you've given me more stuff to imagine being incorporated in such a game.  if only...
Title: Re: Castlevania N64: What was Lost to History?
Post by: xscientist5000 on May 15, 2012, 01:31:45 AM
I would love a CV64 remake, but I'd bet my life it won't happen.

I'm sure this was posted somewhere before but there is a guy whose re-texturing the game. http://c64project.blogspot.com/ (http://c64project.blogspot.com/)
Title: Re: Castlevania N64: What was Lost to History?
Post by: X on May 15, 2012, 03:17:59 AM
That looks pretty sweet! Although I can't agree with his comment on the soundtrack being awful, his updated interpretation of the graphics are a welcome sight. What would help make it even better is if the author were to increase the number of polygons used in the character models. I think that would also help with the game's look even more. I'm glad you brought this up vkiller86 otherwise I'd have no idea of it's existence!
Title: Re: Castlevania N64: What was Lost to History?
Post by: Sumac on May 15, 2012, 05:30:59 PM
I believe, if KCEK were given more time, they could deliver everything, they have promised, since foundation was more or less ready, if CV64 is any indication. Sadly idiotic managers didn't gave them that time.

On note: there were a theory that initial Cornell Wolf-form was turned into midboss in the first level of CV64 and that this boss using what should have been Cornell's melee attacks from earlier stages of development.
Another theory is that Corler and Cornell shoud have benn rescued like in CV3. Corler was supposed to be found in alosed enclosure in the Garen Maze and Cornell should have been where Lizardman in the final game is. Note, Cornell's original costume has an iron manacle on his leg.
Legacy of Darkness originally was called "Castlevania: Special Edition".

According to unconfirmed rumor main heroes of the game initially should have been: Simon Belmont, Maria Renard, Cornell Reinchardt and Corler.

More info here (page mirrored from Geocities). (http://www.oocities.org/victor_doom2099/history.html)
The same page, but with screenshots (archived with Wayback Machine). (http://web.archive.org/web/20091025135707/http://geocities.com/victor_doom2099/history.html)
Title: Re: Castlevania N64: What was Lost to History?
Post by: Kamirine on May 15, 2012, 11:59:29 PM
Man. CV64 really could have been such an epic title if the team had been given a better budget and more time to actually implement everything they would have wanted. (Who knows: if they didn't have the room to fit it on the N64, maybe it could have been fine tuned for the PS One instead...)

I've always wondered 'What could have been' just with what we got CV64/LoD wise had it been done correctly/if the team had been given more time to complete it. Reading the list just makes it so much worse. It's essentially what I would want (give or take a few things of course) in a 3D Castlevania title and I always felt the 64 game had the proper atmosphere, style, theme, tone---you get the gist.

I would adore if the 64 game got a remake but I know I'd have a better chance of meeting Dracula himself, in a tutu, twirling around while drunkenly singing "It's a Small World Afterall" before getting it.
Title: Re: Castlevania N64: What was Lost to History?
Post by: X on May 16, 2012, 01:59:36 AM
Quote
I would adore if the 64 game got a remake but I know I'd have a better chance of meeting Dracula himself, in a tutu, twirling around while drunkenly singing "It's a Small World Afterall" before getting it.

Is he drinking Captain Drac's original spiced rum? I just can't let this one go... it's too damned amusing ever since I saw the image.
Title: Re: Castlevania N64: What was Lost to History?
Post by: Sinful on May 16, 2012, 06:09:15 PM
I believe, if KCEK were given more time, they could deliver everything, they have promised, since foundation was more or less ready, if CV64 is any indication. Sadly idiotic managers didn't gave them that time.

On note: there were a theory that initial Cornell Wolf-form was turned into midboss in the first level of CV64 and that this boss using what should have been Cornell's melee attacks from earlier stages of development.
Another theory is that Corler and Cornell shoud have benn rescued like in CV3. Corler was supposed to be found in alosed enclosure in the Garen Maze and Cornell should have been where Lizardman in the final game is. Note, Cornell's original costume has an iron manacle on his leg.
Legacy of Darkness originally was called "Castlevania: Special Edition".

According to unconfirmed rumor main heroes of the game initially should have been: Simon Belmont, Maria Renard, Cornell Reinchardt and Cooler.

More info here (page mirrored from Geocities). (http://www.oocities.org/victor_doom2099/history.html)
The same page, but with screenshots (archived with Wayback Machine). (http://web.archive.org/web/20091025135707/http://geocities.com/victor_doom2099/history.html)

Them are some pretty interesting rumors you've got there. :) Thanks for the interesting read, Sumac. ...Got any more?... Anyone?

Hey, this made me think, you know how Grant in Castlevania III NES was a monster before you beat him and he turned back to normal and joined you? Well, Maybe that Frankenstein monster with the chainshaw was supposed to turn into that Corler characters? (Or whetever his name is/was) ... Well, I least that's an idea that hit me from reading Sumac's last post. >_>

I would love a CV64 remake, but I'd bet my life it won't happen.

I'm sure this was posted somewhere before but there is a guy whose re-texturing the game. http://c64project.blogspot.com/ (http://c64project.blogspot.com/)

Seems interesting and all. But so far to me the original graphics looks pretty good to me (I guess it helps that I also have nostalgic memories of graphics from that era. And when them graphics were done right. They really blow me away, and still do).  ... But regardless, if I end up a big fan of this game, I'd probably would love to try and play the same game again with a new set of textures and see how that would work? Better then nothing, right?... Though in the end, I'd find it hard to see myself not preferring the original...
Title: Re: Castlevania N64: What was Lost to History?
Post by: xscientist5000 on May 16, 2012, 09:29:12 PM
I feel the same. It'd be fun to play but I'll still prefer the original. Also, hes changing some original content like the pictures in the villa. And I love small details like those in CV games.

The one picture I'm assuming is Henry from before he escaped. Meaning they knew who Henry was as a character, hence the gravestone outside. But I like how they didn't explain the history of the Villa. It really kept me wondering.

One of the pictures looks like Actress. There's still a lot of pictures that I couldn't figure out, like one in the castle center. In the villa there's a torn one that looks like three vikings. Then there's that painting on the roof in the castle keep... It's hard to tell, but looks like women falling and or dead, a mountain, and a black creature with a trident.

Then there's the creepy "statue of a weird face" in the storage closet. WTF is that!! I love it. "why would someone make this?", I've always wondered the same thing. Could it possibly be a Shaft reference?

Also, I can definitely see how Cornell's moves got transferred to that werewolf. Those are such intricate moves for a character you only see once or twice in the game. It'd be interesting to see how those moves could work for a main character. But I'd take 1 martial arts move in my CV game over 10 dragon ball z moves!
Title: Re: Castlevania N64: What was Lost to History?
Post by: Sumac on May 17, 2012, 11:13:57 PM
Quote
Them are some pretty interesting rumors you've got there.  Thanks for the interesting read, Sumac. ...Got any more?...
There is description of the game cast with some old info. (http://lparchive.org/Castlevania-64/)

And some copypasta from this forum, I think:
(click to show/hide)