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The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => Hardcore Gaming 101 => Topic started by: Abnormal Freak on July 18, 2012, 11:46:32 AM

Title: Wii VC color saturation/brightness
Post by: Abnormal Freak on July 18, 2012, 11:46:32 AM
Was wondering if anyone had insight on this. (Google didn't bring up a whole lotta results.)

I was comparing some SNES games I own both the carts for and on Virtual Console. The latter (and also the Snes9x GX emulator—they're practically identical) is much darker with duller colors but better detail. (Both my Wii and SNES are hooked up to an SDTV using S-Video, by the way.)

It's not that the colors are dull necessarily, but that my SNES outputs the games with really saturated colors. EVERYTHING is super bright and ultra colorful. I'm guessing that's a bit more of the way SNES games should look. So why the emulators making them so dark?

Wondering because I'm considering getting rid of some SNES games real soon, and weighing whether I'm fine with just playing them on VC/Snes9x or not.

Here's a quick comparison.

SNES
(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/8761/wgsnes.jpg)

Virtual Console
(http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/1195/wgvc.jpg)

You can see how the colors are more vibrant on the top pic but the pixel detail is more clear on the bottom. Annie's dress is much more pink on the SNES, and there's still a bit of color blend despite using S-Video. The "neon" border around the Select Player sign is also far more bright and flashy on the SNES.

Both have kind of their pros and cons, I suppose. I like the sharper pixel detail of the emulator, but at the same time the SNES gives more of a "hand-drawn" look since a lot of the pixels are more smooth. The colors and brightness, I like 'em both, but I'm just curious which is more "correct." The picture doesn't show the differences well enough; on the Kirby Super Star title screen, the white background is almost a gray, and Kirbs can sometimes look almost more purple than he does bright 'n' pink.

My biggest concern right now is whether to sell Wild Guns. It's going for a lot of money right now on eBay, and it would be nice to make some of that, but what if I regret selling it? If it's going for so much, it'll be difficult to reacquire. But playing classic games on the Wii is just more convenient and I'm much more likely to fire that up than go digging for a cartridge and hoping that my SNES doesn't have a connection error mid-game. (It was acting kinda funky last night.)
Title: Re: Wii VC color saturation/brightness
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on July 18, 2012, 01:41:09 PM
SELL NOTHING!
EVER!

No but seriously, I've looked into this, as I've been trying to get the maximum awesomeness out of my TV (including considering getting an SCART to VGA converter box and connecting a SNES and other S-Video consoles to it using S-Video).

You mentioned that both your Wii and your SNES are using S-Video.  This is actually quite important.  Have you tried hooking up your Wii to your TV using a Component Cable?  Even if it's a 4:3 SDTV, some have Component Inputs.  Connecting the Component Cable to your Wii may further improve the visuals.  It is possible (though I have not tested this) that once you have Component Cable goodness connected to your TV, it will further improve the luminosity of the colors, thus giving you the brightness that's in the upper picture, while having the detail of the lower picture.

Yes, you are using the same type of cable for both systems, but the Wii processes and outputs color information differently than the SNES does, and supports other formats natively.
You really wanna get crazy?  Find a SNES from Europe that outputs to SCART, and hook that up to an VGA Box, and hook that up to a TV with a VGA input (or a PC monitor) and you'll see dramatic differences in detail (you lose the blurry 'niceness' that's up on the SNES top picture though).
Title: Re: Wii VC color saturation/brightness
Post by: Abnormal Freak on July 18, 2012, 03:56:04 PM
The TV I'm using only goes up to S-Video. I've considered getting an SDTV with component, but I also sometimes hook the Wii to my HDTV with component. I'll have to compare how the emulator colors look on that. Maybe I'll stick exclusively to playing on the hi-def TV, though I do like that old-fashioned feel of a good tube teevee.
Title: Re: Wii VC color saturation/brightness
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on July 18, 2012, 04:04:31 PM
If you want, I can take some pics.
However, I do not have a SNES S-Video Cable (it's on my To-Do list).

Darkmoon's Inverteddungeon isn't letting me log in with FTP so I'd have to use Photobucket.
Title: Re: Wii VC color saturation/brightness
Post by: Abnormal Freak on July 18, 2012, 05:08:38 PM
By the way, here's what a copy with a torn label is going for:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wild-Guns-Super-Nintendo-1994-SNES-/280921069841?pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item4168335911 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wild-Guns-Super-Nintendo-1994-SNES-/280921069841?pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item4168335911)

Currently around $150 with almost two days to go. It's difficult to wanna hang on to a cart I paid $40 for when we're talking that kinda money. :p

Then again, if there's ever any regret, it'll be deep regret, heh.
Title: Re: Wii VC color saturation/brightness
Post by: Abnormal Freak on July 18, 2012, 05:19:57 PM
Though there's also this auction:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wild-Guns-Super-Nintendo-1994-/170881117237?pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item27c94eec35 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wild-Guns-Super-Nintendo-1994-/170881117237?pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item27c94eec35)

Only 20 hours left, manual included, only at $54 right now. It'll likely jump up, but damn, that'd suck if this more complete copy didn't get very much money. Wonder why the one is getting so much attention? Hell, even a copy with a badly-torn label is almost $100.

I'd rape myself if I put my cart up on eBay and didn't get much for it.
Title: Re: Wii VC color saturation/brightness
Post by: Abnormal Freak on July 18, 2012, 07:16:30 PM
TRIPLE POST, WOOOHOOOOOOOOO!

Wii's definitely looking spiffier through component. I'm just really curious as to why it outputs color through S-Video so dark; usually with better color depth would be, well, more vibrant color, I would assume.

COMPARISON NOW WITH HDTV COMPONENT

(click to show/hide)

It even exudes some of that yummy "soft edge" while retaining the sharp detail, though my iPhone pic here shows it to be softer than it is since I don't think it was completely in focus.

I wonder how VC games will look output through the Wii U with HDMI? I'm hoping absolutely bonerific. This also gives me more reason to track down a good SDTV that has component—wanna score me a widescreen one if it gives me all the right viewing and zoom options. (Would hate to have 4:3 content stretched to 16:9 or not have the ability to zoom in on non-anamorphic widescreen DVDs.)
Title: Re: Wii VC color saturation/brightness
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on July 19, 2012, 12:14:50 PM
Well, I suppose one of the reasons could be some sort of down-sampling going on with the color, depending on the cable you're going to use.  Sort of like combining stuff into one pin inside the Wii or at the mouth of the cable.  The three cables the Wii can use (Component, Composite, and S-Video) may be telling the Wii how to blend the colors signal after processing.

That is, the Wii produces one signal, and then just before it sends it out, the system is like "Oh snap they've got only Composite!" "Oh wow, ok we gotta combine some streams then" "OK let's do it!".  Unfortunately I do not know the inner workings of the Wii and how it compensates for the different cables used.
Title: Re: Wii VC color saturation/brightness
Post by: Abnormal Freak on July 20, 2012, 01:03:09 AM
What's strange is how not-pink Annie's dress is on that character select screen except for on the actual SNES. Seeing too much red in the other two shots. Again, maybe when I get a Wii U and have downloaded all my VC games to it, I'll be seeing more of a pink color through HDMI. Possibly.

Damn, may have to forsake the potential earnings and just hang on to my cart. I'd hate to be weeping like a baby about it years from now. I'm not starving or anything.

Also, how often was dithering done on the SNES? Guess I've never noticed it, but it's on portions of this game where there's big graphics (character select and title screens). Might have to bust out the ol' yellow cable just to see how the composite video handles the shading, for curiosity's sake.

Much as I love Snes9x GX, it doesn't have all the fancy video filters that Genesis Plus does.
Title: Re: Wii VC color saturation/brightness
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on July 20, 2012, 07:24:16 AM
Dithering on character select screens, portraits, and large image shots was commonplace.

Dithering 'effects' during gameplay?  Not as much.  Definitely less on the SNES since it had a good level of transparency done without resorting to flickering.
Flickering and dithering was more of a Genesis thing.