Castlevania Dungeon Forums

The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: Marty Belmont on December 24, 2007, 02:04:03 AM

Title: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: Marty Belmont on December 24, 2007, 02:04:03 AM
discuss.

Personally, I think it makes the extra modes much much more fun, as it adds more replayability. since you can basically roam free, you can test you skill at any difficulty, any stage.

in POR, for example, Using Richter or the sisters, I might avoid every enemy in the game except for the bosses so I could get into the Nest of evil with the lowest level possible.
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: The Last Belmont on December 24, 2007, 02:38:54 AM
On the extra modes I like not having to worry about leveling up and starting out super strong.
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: CVfan13 on December 24, 2007, 10:42:24 AM
In Reply To #2

I agree, leveling up in all modes is just plain annoying.
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: Cypress on December 24, 2007, 12:25:00 PM
In PoR I do the Hard mode lv. 1 so I don't level up ever...

In Julius mode in DoS I just rushed through but will come back sometime to get to max level.
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: CVfan13 on December 24, 2007, 12:36:56 PM
In PoR I do the Hard mode lv. 1 so I don't level up ever...

Yeah, but you're not super strong. That's why I like extra character modes, super strength.
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: Cypress on December 24, 2007, 12:46:15 PM
In Reply To #5

Yea, I like the extra strength too, but there is something awesome about fighting death with Richter and Maria and knowing if he hits you you die and the feeling you get when you win.
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: CVfan13 on December 24, 2007, 12:52:38 PM
In Reply To #6

Yeah, that feeling is great, but its not worth all the frustration.
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: Dark Nemesis on December 24, 2007, 06:45:55 PM
Well, i like the extra modes with leveling up or without it. But to tell the truth i prefer the leveling up and that's because it makes the game more challenging.
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: Long John Silver on December 24, 2007, 09:05:46 PM
I hate leveling up all together.

If you want to just casually go through the game without worrying much about stuff you'll eventually find yourself in a situation where you die from 1 hit. Then you have to grind levels. Or, if like in all the recent cvs you level up too fast you become a tank. Sadly, for leveling up to work right in most of the cv titles it needs to be toned down severely. As it is in cv right now it makes all of the games (maybe except cotm) far too easy.
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: Marty Belmont on December 24, 2007, 10:28:25 PM
In Reply To #9

DoS julius mode you had to grind, but with richter, since he's so fast and manuverable, it's much more balanced.

you have more responsive reflexes to rely on.

plus, if you use the glitch that lets the extra character modes get the strength and INT boosts, the hard modes seem much more like a classicvania.
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: The Last Belmont on December 24, 2007, 10:34:39 PM
In Reply To #5

Yea, I like the extra strength too, but there is something awesome about fighting death with Richter and Maria and knowing if he hits you you die and the feeling you get when you win.

Yeah but that can take ages. To get where you can take death at lv 1 w/out getting hit in any mode but the sisters would take way too much time and I get bored after awhile cuz I'm one of these guys that even if I perfect a fight I get hit now and then from careless mistakes if the fight drags on too long.
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: Long John Silver on December 24, 2007, 10:53:57 PM
Too bad the richter mode was so shallow and boring, especially compared to his awesome self in sotn.

J mode yeah, the grinding was annoying but otherwise that mode was way better than any mode in por. For starters, it was an awesome tribute to cv3.
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: sonicabid on December 24, 2007, 11:08:16 PM
In Reply To #12

One fun thing I do in Julius mode is I don't get Yoko, cause I think she's a piece of sh!t. So I just switch between Julius and Alucard. Alucard for his jumps, and swift sword swipes, and then Julius for his fun cross and other sub weapons with some whipping action. Yoko I just hated, she was no fun. Atleast to me, I know others liked to use her.
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: Marty Belmont on December 25, 2007, 12:19:19 AM
In Reply To #12

No, it's to bad you didn't enjoy it for what it was.

Maybe My opinion will change if I ever get to play Dracula X Chronicles, since I never played SotN. For now, though, PoR and its extra modes rule my Castlevania fix as they have for the past solid year.
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: Long John Silver on December 25, 2007, 02:25:35 AM
Quote
No, it's to bad you didn't enjoy it for what it was.
It's bad that I didn't enjoy something that is viewed by most (including myself) as crap?

It's hard to enjoy something so shallow, boring and easy. Artificial difficulty levels don't count, because they just drag out the fights needlessly to 10-30 minutes where 1-2 mistakes means repeating over. So stop trying to correct me or change my view point.

The only extra mode that was worse was the sisters one. That had completely no gameplay or replayability, and it effectively killed the only chance those characters would get for a mode with real gameplay since they already have a defective one, and the game wrapped their story up completely.

If iga was reading all those english forums he could get the wrong idea that it was a good idea and put more such crap modes into his next games. :(


Back on topic, level grinding sucks. I want to see a 2d game that's a departure from it like loi was. :o
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: Marty Belmont on December 25, 2007, 03:06:38 AM
In Reply To #15


Did PoR rape your baby or something?

It's fine if you don't like it, but don't act so suprised (or upset) that some people do.

I'm just stating which mode I felt had the best balance out of the leveling up extra modes so far, not trying to turn it into another tug-of-war.







Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: Long John Silver on December 25, 2007, 08:51:11 AM
It raped the baby called castlevania and turned it into a dirty crackwhore. :o
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: Dark Nemesis on December 25, 2007, 10:34:30 AM
Do we have to fight each other always about castlevania games? Also i'll agree with serios statement, that the leveling up system must be more balanced, not only at extra modes, but also at main mode.

    This way will have a more challenging castlevania game.
I know that some new castlevania players will get disappointed with the difficalty but the old school players, this is what we want. More challenging new games, with more difficalty.

     Konami and IGA, they must understand both old players and new ones and make a more balanced game for both players. Also for the 3d castlevanias, i think like IGA said at his recent review, they must be like GOD of WAR, or else they will always suck.

   I'm not saying that they must be a copy of GOW, but to have similar enviroments. That's all they need.

    I know that some of you will agree with me and some others will get mad with me, but everyone has the right to expose his opinion.
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: Cypress on December 25, 2007, 12:40:42 PM
Yeah but that can take ages. To get where you can take death at lv 1 w/out getting hit in any mode but the sisters would take way too much time and I get bored after awhile cuz I'm one of these guys that even if I perfect a fight I get hit now and then from careless mistakes if the fight drags on too long.

I beat death on my first try in Richter mode. It was pretty tough but Richter is fast. Im stuck at Brauner though. I can't remember but I think I have to hit him around 600 times or something...so yea. Im not ready for that.


And Richter mode is an extra. There is no reason to call it shallow for an extra mode, and besides the whole castlevania universe is shallow and unless you haven't played any other game you would notice that. It is mindless play, not a great story so calm down everyone.
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: Long John Silver on December 25, 2007, 04:16:36 PM
Richter in sotn was also an extra, but apart from the fact that you could beat it in 8 minutes due to being able to skip most bosses it was superior to por in every possible way.
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: The Last Belmont on December 26, 2007, 03:18:56 AM

It's hard to enjoy something so shallow, boring and easy. Artificial difficulty levels don't count, because they just drag out the fights needlessly to 10-30 minutes where 1-2 mistakes means repeating over.

Yeah once you've mastered how to dodge all the bosses moves and can straight up own it, it's boring to go at it at a lower level just to drag out the fight and lower your D.
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: knightmere on December 26, 2007, 04:31:54 AM
Seems some of you people got nothing better to do than bash POR. BTW i thought Richter in POR was better then all three of the characters in Julius mode.
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: Marty Belmont on December 26, 2007, 02:43:46 PM
In Reply To #22

I agree. I said this on the Chapel of resonance boards as well:

obviously PoR did SOMETHING right if it's able to keep certain fans hooked on it for a solid year. it has barely left my DS since last december, and some of the times in which I took it out to play other games was in fear of wearing out the game card.

granted, it's not as fun as it once was, but it's been just as fun for longer than any other video game I have played to date.

Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: Long John Silver on December 26, 2007, 05:18:01 PM
It was especially geared towards newbies and more casual players so duh. They had to appeal to newbies and casual gamers more to get more funds. That was the reason they reintroduced the generic anime artwork, dumbed down the stories and changed the overall mood from 'castlevania' into a saturday morning cartoon, and turned characters into anime cliches.

More people will buy them since that type of thing appeals to them, and developers'll get more money. And the fact that they're running the franchise to the ground and milking it doesn't matter to them anymore. The newbies won't see the difference and the flaws since they weren't with the series long enough and this is how cv has always been for them, and the long-term fans will soon quit gaming due to life issues anyway, so the fact that they hate it won't matter to them.
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: Marty Belmont on December 26, 2007, 07:56:39 PM
In Reply To #24

DoS is even worse in terms of dumbing down the story,(Julius! I'm sensing a magical surge from the river!"
"something bad is behind this barrier. I can feel it in my gut, and it doesn't feel good.") yet it seems to be spared the acid that PoR gets thrown at it. go figure. ("but it had Julius Mode!", yes, the mode that also had no Item crashes or special moves and an incredibly cheap damage system that forced you to grind because their reflexes were shit)

despite what you may think, POR did not rape the castlevania "Baby" because Dracula X chronicles shows that IGA is not interested in keeping castlevania in that direction. he gave you your precious SotN richter mode and added a better Maria mode, AND he brought back Kojima.



Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: Cypress on December 26, 2007, 08:36:51 PM
In Reply To #24

I don't think they "dumbed down the story." Castlevania isn't really that deep to begin with (whoops *falls in a plot hole*). And as for it being geared towards noobs, it isn't any different than any of the recent ones. The very first games are the only ones with hard difficulties since that was the norm back then. They did add the level 1 hard mode cap to please all the hardcore players. I doubt there are many people who beat them because they themselves aren't good enough or dedicated enough to do it. It is much easier to complain about it. Some people at least say "That isn't my thing, but it is still a cool feature" instead of complaining because there wasn't some type of storyline or new castle in the extra modes.
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: Long John Silver on December 26, 2007, 10:55:37 PM
The part about towards noobs was because aos's reception was pretty poor since gba's demographics was too young to appreciate a more mature feel of the game. The ds one's demographics is similar since the ds is a next step in gba's evolution. Hence dos and por were made with childish protagonists and very simple designs that'll appeal to kids and teenagers.

And I didn't say dos's story was good. Both games have stupid stories.

Dos's reddeeming point in extra modes was that it made J's gameplay more balanced and toned down from his previous overpowered incarnation while keeping it almost the same (missed the avoid move though, even if it was really cheap and unfair. :(), while por like its name implies ruined the returning characters along with the newcomers. Was it that hard to make Richter not feel like jonafag on crack with julius's subweapons?
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: DoctaMario on December 30, 2007, 03:46:47 AM
Richter in sotn was also an extra, but apart from the fact that you could beat it in 8 minutes due to being able to skip most bosses it was superior to por in every possible way.

O_o They're basically the same thing really.
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: The Last Belmont on December 30, 2007, 06:53:09 AM
In Reply To #24

DoS is even worse in terms of dumbing down the story,(Julius! I'm sensing a magical surge from the river!"
"something bad is behind this barrier. I can feel it in my gut, and it doesn't feel good.") yet it seems to be spared the acid that PoR gets thrown at it. go figure. ("but it had Julius Mode!", yes, the mode that also had no Item crashes or special moves and an incredibly cheap damage system that forced you to grind because their reflexes were shit)


I agree, PoR had way more of an oldschool feel than DoS. PoR feels like a castlevania game, DoS doesn't. They should have left it at AoS, adding an extra game just to get more cash was stupid at least PoR furthered the overall CV story and gave us an explanation as to why John has the whip in VK/Bloodlines/New Generation.

In Reply To #24

I don't think they "dumbed down the story." Castlevania isn't really that deep to begin with (whoops *falls in a plot hole*). And as for it being geared towards noobs, it isn't any different than any of the recent ones.

Agreed, if anything PoR felt closer to the 8-bit games than any castlevania has in a long time especially with the  lv 1 cap and everything.
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: Long John Silver on December 30, 2007, 12:35:06 PM
Quote
PoR furthered the overall CV story and gave us an explanation as to why John has the whip in VK/Bloodlines/New Generation.
Which would have been fixed much easier with retconning, since bloodlines was as much or even more of a sidestory than cv64. I mean, they even didn't use the akumajo dracula title for it like they did with all other games.

If they could retcon cv64/lod which had much more in common with the overall cv storyline why not bloodlines which was pretty detached from it and felt like a sidestory way more than 64? Except the obvious thing about the time they were made in.

Quote
Agreed, if anything PoR felt closer to the 8-bit games than any castlevania has in a long time especially with the  lv 1 cap and everything.
The artificial level caps don't count. If they really wanted to make it feel more old school they shouldn't have just crippled the heroes. Taking 30 minutes of repetitive pattern to kill a boss and dying in 1 hit is not what old school games were like you know. >_>

Quote
O_o They're basically the same thing really.

Have you even played them? Richter's controls are way different in both games. In sotn he feels powerful, though heavy. He can item crash each of his subweapons, and his controls are pretty stiff, almost oldschool. In por he's a deformed Julius+jonafag on crack with a sonic syndrome. He can't item crash his subweapons, but for some reason he learned Julius's magical cross of light attack, which was Julius's trademark.
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: knightmere on December 30, 2007, 03:03:43 PM
Richter in POR is just too pimp for you too handle :D
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: Long John Silver on December 30, 2007, 03:06:29 PM
In Reply To #31

If by "pimp" you mean lame/gay/crappy then sure. :o :P

The sad part is, even though his mode sucks it's also the best extra mode gameplay wise in por. Second one being axe armor and worst sisters mode for its braindead shallow gameplay. :(
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: knightmere on December 30, 2007, 03:10:37 PM
In Reply To #32

He's not crappy.
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: CVfan13 on December 30, 2007, 03:17:15 PM
In Reply To #32

You gotta admit, he was the most fun to play as. I mean look how fast he was, and all the cool moves he could do!
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: Long John Silver on December 30, 2007, 03:24:17 PM
They took his sprites from sotn and pasted them on julius who they ported from dos you mean, then added jonafag's special moves and replaced with richter's sprites (the kick for example is exactly identical to jonafag's kick except they forgot to add sound effects. If you use certain code to replace richter's currently equipped subweapon with the kick from main mode he'll do the exact same move as the combo type kick, except it'll also have sound effects and voices).

They were so lazy they even kept the code and sprites for some of J's subweapons like the axe, holy water or magical cross. There's nothing left from the extremely awesome guy from sotn.

The item crashes minus the axe were all already coded in, and would help his otherwise bland mode to have some more options instead of the useless and incredibly awkward to pull off special moves.

And why no critical move with the whip? Richter out of everyone else should be able to power his whip up to use the flame element, he could in every other game he appeared in.

I just want konami to finally get off their lazy asses and start doing coherent extra modes. Dos's J mode was on the right track, with exclusive boss, each character being more less required at some point or another, and the overall mood of it as well as the reason to be there not to mention probably the best referrence to an old school game for a long while.

Especially since some of the side characters overshadow the protagonists totally.
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: Marty Belmont on December 30, 2007, 03:46:59 PM
In Reply To #35

Julius Mode didn't have any item crashes either. if you're going to bitch about that in PoR, why not DoS? the old castlevanias didn't have item crashes either, yet nobody complains about them.


I think Julius Mode sucked big time. it was tedius in that you had to grind because relexes were shit, it was frusteringly hard even then, and you got jack shit payoff for all your work.

Richter mode mops the floor with Julius Mode.

it was fun enough so you don't feel like you're getting shafted with it's non-existant ending. you didn't have to grind like you did in Julius Mode because Reflexes were superior and you could rely on them.
and if Richter mode DID have item crashes, you'd just be complaining that they carbon copied the "shitty main mode"

and again, you have your precious SotN Richter Mode(which I DO want to play if I ever have the means, mind you) on PS1 and PSP. it's not like PoR took it away from you.
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: Cypress on December 30, 2007, 04:48:41 PM
In Reply To #32

You gotta admit, he was the most fun to play as. I mean look how fast he was, and all the cool moves he could do!

Seriously. If you didn't like Richter in PoR you just plain hate that game because Richter was awesome.
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: Long John Silver on December 30, 2007, 06:45:59 PM
Quote
Julius Mode didn't have any item crashes either. if you're going to bitch about that in PoR, why not DoS? the old castlevanias didn't have item crashes either, yet nobody complains about them.

Yeah but J didn't have those in aos either, where he also was an extra mode. Richter however did have them in sotn where he was an extra mode, and por totally changed him into something he wasn't (a julius wannabe).

Quote
it's not like PoR took it away from you.

It just shows the quality and time Iga's current team is willing to spend on extra modes. That's why I hate it and want them all to be replaced. They can't even get close to sotn's (hell even aos) level, and I don't want to see more half assed modes like that.

But as long as there are newbies who praise it like there's no tomorrow because it's new and has lots of enemies, they'll think lowering quality like this is fine and will continue to do it.

Quote
If you didn't like Richter in PoR you just plain hate that game because Richter was awesome.

Huh?
No. I don't like the game because:
-Sisters mode sucks.
-Richter mode is a butchered julius mode.
-Areas are getting more and more similar to cod's flat repetitive design with enemies thrown at you just for the hell of it.
-The story was lame and wasted so many opportunities.
-The protagonists were the lamest heroes in cv history so far.
-How could a cool hero like john have such a retard as a son? Did he hit him in the head too much while training?
-Its color scheme was too bright and neony happy. Where's the grimness? Iga once said the cv games have to feel "gothic" and dark to be cv, then he goes and makes them bright like it's daytime.
-Dracula was totally unneeded. He was completely detached from the story, reused the same lame patterns of "hellfire+teleport+black balls" he did since rondo, and were it not for death's attacks and his dual attacks with drac it'd completely kill the final battle.
-Drac's design, Death's design and their lines suck. "NOW LETS FIGHT FOR REAL HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!"
-Hard modes were lame and cheap. Instead of throwing a real challenge at you they simply increased enemy damage and defense to ridculous amounts, needlessly dragging the already repetitive boss battles. Real hard mode should add new enemies, more environmental hazards and such, not just prolong a boss battle from 10 minutes to 60, where one-two mistakes mean repeating over.
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: Marty Belmont on December 30, 2007, 07:04:39 PM
In Reply To #37


that's right. they don't like the game, and they've allready made up their minds. they'll pick the game apart peice by peice until they've found every possible stupid thing to complain about:

first it was

"Iron Blue Intention has no place in London!"

then

"Oh No! Maria renard throws her doves at a stupid upwards angle!"


Next it will be, "Egypt shouldn't have orange stars and moons at night!"


 
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: knightmere on December 30, 2007, 09:10:32 PM
POR is a good game and Richter is 100x better then old man Julius. 

Now stop arguing every point and find something else to complain about.
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: Long John Silver on December 30, 2007, 09:57:57 PM
There are many people who don't like this game that was obviously made just to get a quick buck, more than noobs who defend it as if their lives depended from its success, deal with it. This is an online forum for people to discuss things, if you want a discussion to be over, stop replying instead of fueling it.
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: knightmere on December 30, 2007, 10:46:32 PM
In Reply To #41

I believe there are many more CV fans who like it then hate it.  And I don't think your opinion is better then anyone else's so generalizing people who defend it as noobs is just poor taste on your part.
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: Long John Silver on December 30, 2007, 11:18:23 PM
I thought you wanted this discussion to end? :o

I was speaking of those who blindly love it, defend for god forsaken reasons, trivialise all faults others point out as "you're just a hater" or try to get the people who don't like it banned. Those are the noobs I'm talking about. They refuse to see this game's numerious faults and whine at everyone who does.

This game is only mediocre, and it really does not deserve all the blind worship some people give it. It might give Iga a wrong idea that castlevania should be like that.

That its heroes should all be braindead morons like jonafag, that copypasting the same rooms over and over to save money is a good idea and they should do it more often and that it's ok to write a shallow story and waste a lot of its opportunities because the fans won't care either way as long as he'll hype it up to all hell.

I really hope Iga will actually see those faults himself (if he didn't already) and readjust his team. Back when cod came out he also made it all into a gem and now admits it came out pretty poorly.
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: Marty Belmont on December 31, 2007, 12:10:26 AM
In Reply To #43

the faults of PoR have already been committed in previous castlevanias, yet nobody complained about them then, or at least not as intense or passionate as they do with PoR.

Repetative enviornments: Simon's Quest. (Don't need to mention CoD, as that's also flamed, although I can't say if that's justified as i haven't played it)

Cheap difficulty: Castlevania 1 and 3 (Western version of the latter)

cheap hard modes: CotM, DoS

Childish anime and dumbed down story: DoS (and both are MUCH worse there)

unfitting music: CV IV (The beginning being used for the LAST stage in the Game? what's up with that?)

Rehashed stages: HoD and SotN, and HoD actually put WEAKER or rehashed enemies in some of the later versions of the castle areas you go through

Touch Screan Gimmick:
DoS

Extra Modes sans the bells and wistles: HoD, AoS
DoS


so if you hate PoR, you might as well hate Castlevania itself.


Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: Long John Silver on December 31, 2007, 02:27:27 AM
Quote
cheap hard modes: CotM, DoS
Cotm had no hard mode. Dos's hard mode was better. It didn't kill you in 1 hit while you dealt crap to the boss who has over 5000.
Quote
Cheap difficulty: Castlevania 1 and 3 (Western version of the latter)
In the earlier cvs the boss battles ended much faster since the bosses died after 16 hits. Not 600+. And they killed you with 4 hits. not 1.
Quote
unfitting music: CV IV (The beginning being used for the LAST stage in the Game? what's up with that?)
It made it feel more epic. It was one of the better beginning remixes too.
Quote
Extra Modes sans the bells and wistles: HoD, AoS
DoS
Um. Dos's extra mode blows all the others away, maybe except LoD's. Three characters, each with their own strengths and weaknesses, julius kept his trademark moves, cv3 like gameplay, several dialogues, continuation of one of the endings, soma as final boss. That's far more than "two characters, no attachment to the storyline, no dialogue, no ending, gameplay that just mimics the original mode and steals items from dos's Julius mode, Richter forgot half of his trademark moves". :o

Also the things you mentioned are scattered all over the different games in the entire series. Yet por managed to get ALL of them into itself. 1-2 faults in a game is still better than dozens of them. :o
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: knightmere on December 31, 2007, 02:36:21 AM
I thought that last song during dracula was the theme of simon belmont?  Anyways that is a very good song.
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: The Last Belmont on December 31, 2007, 04:04:28 AM
Which would have been fixed much easier with retconning, since bloodlines was as much or even more of a sidestory than cv64. I mean, they even didn't use the akumajo dracula title for it like they did with all other games.



Yeah but Vampire Killer is a solid game and very fun, it was also the first 20th century cv so there wasn't all these resurrections happening every +5/-5 years like the 19th century. Koji had to retcon some stuff there was just too much, although I think he should have just changed the date the games took place instead of removing them from the timeline entirely.

In Reply To #43

Repetative enviornments: Simon's Quest.


Yeah but it's no diff. than rpg's and it takes a lot less time to beat than say FF.

Quote
Cheap difficulty: Castlevania 1 and 3 (Western version of the latter)

what do you consider cheap? 1 and 3 really aren't that bad but you have to get good at the games, they aren't going to be all nice and make the bosses get easier after a set amount of time or anything, all the bosses have set patterns, once you get them down they really aren't that tough. I mean Cheap would be like having all the boss fights take place over pits or something like Dracula in XX.

Quote
cheap hard modes: CotM,

uh, CoTM has no hard modes.

Quote
dumbed down story: DoS

I agree, but DoS is still fun, it's just way too short as well as what you said. I mean I haven't had any desire to play it again since I beat it when I first got it.

Quote
unfitting music: CV IV (The beginning being used for the LAST stage in the Game? what's up with that?)

It's cool, that's the best track in the game sides bloody tears.

Quote
so if you hate PoR, you might as well hate Castlevania itself.




um no, it is possible to hate 1 game in a series w/out hating the series itself, I'm a huge friday the 13th fan but I think 8 is total horse shit with no redeeming values whatsoever.

In Reply To #32

You gotta admit, he was the most fun to play as. I mean look how fast he was, and all the cool moves he could do!

Actually I hated that about him in PoR, I kept running into enemies cuz I couldn't see most of them until it was too late to dodge.
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: Cypress on December 31, 2007, 12:22:46 PM


Huh?
No. I don't like the game because:
-Sisters mode sucks.
-Richter mode is a butchered julius mode.
-Areas are getting more and more similar to cod's flat repetitive design with enemies thrown at you just for the hell of it.
-The story was lame and wasted so many opportunities.
-The protagonists were the lamest heroes in cv history so far.
-How could a cool hero like john have such a retard as a son? Did he hit him in the head too much while training?
-Its color scheme was too bright and neony happy. Where's the grimness? Iga once said the cv games have to feel "gothic" and dark to be cv, then he goes and makes them bright like it's daytime.
-Dracula was totally unneeded. He was completely detached from the story, reused the same lame patterns of "hellfire+teleport+black balls" he did since rondo, and were it not for death's attacks and his dual attacks with drac it'd completely kill the final battle.
-Drac's design, Death's design and their lines suck. "NOW LETS FIGHT FOR REAL HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!"
-Hard modes were lame and cheap. Instead of throwing a real challenge at you they simply increased enemy damage and defense to ridculous amounts, needlessly dragging the already repetitive boss battles. Real hard mode should add new enemies, more environmental hazards and such, not just prolong a boss battle from 10 minutes to 60, where one-two mistakes mean repeating over.

If you didn't want to confirm my point you would have listed the things you actually liked about the game.  ::)
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: Long John Silver on December 31, 2007, 01:16:23 PM
Ok let's see, things I liked about the game.

-the sisters themselves
-attempt to make a 2 player mode, even if it turned out less than great
-dullahan's design wasn't too bad I guess

And.. that's it. Can't think of another thing I liked about it.
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: CVfan13 on December 31, 2007, 02:28:10 PM
Actually I hated that about him in PoR, I kept running into enemies cuz I couldn't see most of them until it was too late to dodge.

Really? I never had trouble. I just move so freely and I rarely ever got hit.
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: Marty Belmont on December 31, 2007, 05:00:54 PM
In Reply To #47

my point was is that the flaws in PoR are also prevelant in many other castlevania games. yet PoR seems to be the target of fans annoyances with them.

as for castlevania I and III, having the stage level dictate the damage you take is what I mean. you can only survive 3 hits against the later bosses, AND that's if you manage to make it to them with full health. I don't see how that's any differant than the hard modes in PoR.

Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: Long John Silver on December 31, 2007, 05:36:25 PM
Did you even read what I and others wrote earlier?

Quote
my point was is that the flaws in PoR are also prevelant in many other castlevania games. yet PoR seems to be the target of fans annoyances with them.

Quote
Also the things you mentioned are scattered all over the different games in the entire series. Yet por managed to get ALL of them into itself. 1-2 faults in a game is still better than dozens of them. :o

and

Quote
I don't see how that's any differant than the hard modes in PoR.

Quote
In the earlier cvs the boss battles ended much faster since the bosses died after 16 hits. Not 600+. And they killed you with 4 hits. not 1.

In the old cvs you had to hit the boss only 16 to 32 times (even less as sypha with her powerful spells). in por's hard mode you have to hit 400-600 times. In older cvs you die from 3-4 hits. In por from 1-2.

Read the other posts first before you go off and start repeating yourself. ::)
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: Cypress on December 31, 2007, 11:02:49 PM
I don't think anyone should compare PoR's hard mode to any other game. They choose to make it the way they did because they wanted it to be a challenge. And for once it actually was. Some people won't like it because it is too hard for them but when I see something that says it is "Hard" then if better be fuckin hard. I hate when they label things wrong. (example: Re4 professional mode= easy with a few more ganados. Zombie revenge Hard mode= ...easy/normal/hard/very hard. They kinda fucked up since it doesn't change anything.)You do get the option of doing it without the lv.1 cap so you have to level up but you don't need to spend any time training.
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: Long John Silver on December 31, 2007, 11:24:13 PM
Quote
when I see something that says it is "Hard" then if better be fuckin hard.
Yeah, same here. Sadly por's were boring rather than really difficult. The bosses still had the same slow and ridiculously easy to dodge patterns and took their sweet time between the moves to do nothing. The only difference was they had much more defense and you much less attack power so the battles dragged on and on for far too long.

I want real hard mode, one that will randomise the enemy/boss patterns much more, add loads of new moves for them and bosses, add more enemies, lower their idle timer between the attacks by a lot, add more environmental hazards, move the platforms a bit apart so the jumps will be harder to pull off etc.

Sadly, it seems Iga's current team is too dense to come up with something like that. :(
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: Cypress on December 31, 2007, 11:46:41 PM
In Reply To #54

Thats what every hard mode should be like. Sadly they all have only minimal changes. I did find the boss battles to be more strategic in the hard mode lv. 1 because they took so long to kill. Normally they would be dead before you've seen all of their moves. The sister's boss battle was awesome on Richter mode. It was more fun than any other castlevania boss battle I've had. (I got the same kinda feeling as when I manage to beat a boss on a Final Fantasy game when one more attack would have killed me and I haven't saved in two hours.) The death fight was cool too. The creature fight seemed impossible to me but I managed to spam the super jump in the corner and I had to contol maria with the stylus which was hard but cool. Legion was fun for the first few minutes. Once you figure out what to do it is just a really long fight. The only major problem I had with the game was that it was too short and the online was severely lacking but I suppose I shouldn't go into detail on that since Im starting to sidetrack this thread.
Title: Re: Leveling up systems in the extra modes
Post by: The Last Belmont on January 01, 2008, 05:09:47 AM
In Reply To #47

as for castlevania I and III, having the stage level dictate the damage you take is what I mean. you can only survive 3 hits against the later bosses, AND that's if you manage to make it to them with full health. I don't see how that's any differant than the hard modes in PoR.



Um you get subweapons and double and triple shots that allow subweapons to do megadamage and decimate the bosses with proper timing. And even if you go at all the bosses w/ just the whip it won't take more than 16 or 32 for drac's second form. And unless your playing vs. castlevania you can take 4 hits in the later levels. I still don't see how that's cheap though, you just have to learn how to dodge all the diff. enemies attacks and develop the best strategy to make it to the boss w/out getting hit or taking minimal damage. I like games that are tough like that and provide lots of entertainment, I hate beating games quickly.