Castlevania Dungeon Forums

The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: Denis Belmondo on September 16, 2012, 10:36:14 PM

Title: If Castlevania II was linear
Post by: Denis Belmondo on September 16, 2012, 10:36:14 PM
And when I say linear I mean if it was done in the style of its predecessor. Now, I haven't actually beat Simon's Quest yet so if my conceptualizations come off as uneducated... well... they are and I apologize in advance. Just something I wanted to discuss.

Now, it would be kind of hard to "convert" the hardwired exploration gameplay to something more action oriented I imagine, given that the towns look very similar to one another and each is followed by a mansion for every part of Vlad you have to collect. Also, we are going to assume that we're trying to preserve the game's story and area progression (I am not sure how to word that).

I think Simon would start in Jova and collect hearts and whip upgrades before heading out to the woods and by the time he reaches Veros it is already night or evening. I'll elaborate on it later.

Anyone want to discuss?
Title: Re: If Castlevania II was linear
Post by: X on September 16, 2012, 10:56:57 PM
I think it could be done. In fact some games have done this very thing. Valis II to name one. Liner gameplay like the original Castlevania (stage by stage), with a boss possessing one of Dracula's remains as well as receiving whip upgrades after beating a level or two. Then of course your sub-weapons would be found like they had always been found; candles and walls. It's do-able and I'm surprised that the game designers didn't take this road rather then the one they did end up taking.
Title: Re: If Castlevania II was linear
Post by: Denis Belmondo on September 17, 2012, 08:36:25 AM
Yeah, it would be something to see Castlevania's gameplay expanded upon even more. I wonder what Simon's Quest's gimmick would be since every CV game had one. The day/night cycles wouldn't work too well with the original formula I'd think.

I think what would work well if Simon's Quest was reworked into a traditional classicvania, is the map system in the vein of Belmont's Revenge (or Mega Man). You would be able to choose which town you want to start in first. Once you're done retrieving most of Dracula's body parts, save for the eye, you would be left with a single map screen that gets Simon to travel through Braham Mansion, where he fights Death and then Castlevania.
Title: Re: If Castlevania II was linear
Post by: Aridale on September 17, 2012, 08:39:16 AM
itd be like CV1 but pretty repetitive cause basically each stage would be woods maybe some bridges and a then a mansion. The mansion would of course have a boss at the end. Defeat the boss and then the "end level orb" would be the stake orb to get the body part. Rinse/Repeat til the ruins of castlevania stage and the dracs ghost battle final stage. No need for buyin anythin and each stage could start at the exit of a town. Get hearts subweapons and whip upgrades just like CV1 but add another one for the flame whip and make it so you can only get it if you havent died in that section else you wont have enough upgrades in the area to get that high.
Title: Re: If Castlevania II was linear
Post by: Inccubus on September 17, 2012, 11:52:58 PM
In anticipation of TheouAegis' CV3 engine, I put together a little bit work on a design document for just such a project as this. I call it "Castlevania II: Dracula's Curse". (It may seem to be an odd choice of title, but it's close to the original Japanese Title of CV2 in meaning & my remake of CV3 would be titled "Castlevania III: Legend of the Demon Castle".)

Anyway, my idea for the game was to have the player start in the Town of Jova during the day. The player would be able to buy some items at the town's shop and then exit either to the left or right of the town. The two paths never cross like in RoB and here's where your gimmick comes in. Whichever path you choose the stages making up that path will progress from morning to sunset until you reach the Town of Doina. You will be told at Doina that you must have all of Dracula's parts before you enter Dracula's Castle. Now you proceed back to Jova where it is now night and the place is crawling with monsters and you are forced to take the opposite path from the one you took before. The stages in the second path progress from night to sunrise back at Doina where you are now allowed access to Castlevania which is itself expanded into a set of four stages.

This Day/Night gimmick is different from that in the original version of CV2, but I think it keeps to the original spirit of that mechanic. Furthermore, it extends play time in a way that isn't tedious by giving you a different experience on a second play through by choosing the pathes in the opposite order from before.

I should also, like to mention that on the second path, being that it takes place at night, none of the towns have shops available like on the first path.

Here's the basic stage progression I came up with:
Start
Jova (Day)

Route A
Belasco Marsh
Dead River 1
Brams Mansion
Dead River 2
Aldra
Sadam Woods
Strigoi Cemetery
Ondol
Dead River 3
Jam Wasteland
Deborah Cliff

Route B
South Bridge
Veros Woods
Berkeley Mansion
Dabi's Path
Aljiba
Yuba Lake
Rover Mansion
Joma Marsh
Laruba Mansion
Debious Woods
Uta Lower Road

Cross Paths
Bathory Mansion (Both Deborah Cliff & Uta Lower Road lead here)
Wicked Ditch
Doina
North Bridge
Dora Woods

If Your Reach Dora Woods at Sunset
East Bridge
Denis Marsh
Jova (Night)

If You Reach Dora Woods at Sunrise
Yomi
Vlad Graveyard
West Bridge
Castlevania Ruins (Here a cut scene showing Simon burning Dracula's parts happens & the Dracula Wraith is summoned.)

Castlevania Wraith
Entrance + Chapel
Outer Wall + Underground & Courtyard
Cursed Dungeon & Laboratory + Clock Tower
Castle Keep

This short version of Castlevania is loosely based on the NES/MSX version, but in barely stable ruins. I was thinking of trying one of two things to represent the chaotic, half-formed nature of this quasi-revived version of the castle. A) Super-Ghouls-'n'-Ghosts-style shifting terrain effect during game play, or... B) Semi-randomly generated 'chaos' rooms dispersed within each stage.

That's pretty much my idea for a linear CV2 remake. Of course many of the areas will have to be completely redesigned to make things more interesting, but that pretty much goes without saying.
Title: Re: If Castlevania II was linear
Post by: Denis Belmondo on September 20, 2012, 01:40:50 PM
Nicely arranged, Inccubus. That really sounds like a game that fits Simon's second adventure better than the original game itself. The implementation of the original stages was pretty slick too.

I am wondering what the music would be like since there are so many more areas to progress through. I imagine, if the game actually existed of course, that people would get bored of hearing Bloody Tears and Monster Fight a couple of hundred times as unlikely as it seems since SQ's tracks are glorious. Though, one would've already taken account of this I'm sure.

From your description I can picture the first half of the ruins stage would be playing Vampire Killer and the stairs or stage before the keep would be playing Within These Castle Walls but that's all I can offer for now. I'd probably throw in some Battle of the Holy in the game somewhere, I dunno.
Title: Re: If Castlevania II was linear
Post by: TheCruelAngel on September 20, 2012, 02:56:50 PM
I think Inccubus nailed it on the head. A more linear CVII would, I think, play more like RoB than anything else, Inccubus' interpretation I think is an excellent balance of how it would flow and change depending on choices.

+1 for you good sir!
Title: Re: If Castlevania II was linear
Post by: Lelygax on September 20, 2012, 06:16:08 PM

 There is a game with nice concepts that can be used, it being linear or not:
http://horrorquest.altervista.org/download.html (http://horrorquest.altervista.org/download.html)
 Download and play Dracula's Shadow, I played it years ago but doesnt liked it so much, but this time I give it another chance and its fantastic, this game plays like CV2, but much much better. You need to fight a boss when you reach enough EXP to level up, if you lose the fight you lost the chance and needs to try to level up again.
 Its almost like a CV 2.5, only be playing it you can understand what Im trying to say.
Title: Re: If Castlevania II was linear
Post by: Inccubus on September 20, 2012, 06:26:32 PM
Thanks! :)

I remember Dracula's Shadow. I want so badly to remake the graphics for it. No offense to the original author, but some of the graphics are atrocious. I did like some of the concepts used in it.

As for the music I'd probably go with 'environmental' themes since there are at least two of every kind of location. Sort of like how Mario games have an overworld, athletic, underground, and underwater stage theme. Also, I tend to like remixes quite a bit so I'd want several remixes from previous games in the timeline to round out the original soundtrack.

Actually, come to think of it, Optomon was working on a kick-ass CV2 hack that has apparently been cancelled, but he did end up making a CV2 style soundtrack for it. When combined with the original ost it pretty much covers everything one could ask for. I'll attach the nsf file for it along with the one for cv2.

CV2 OST NSF (http://www.mediafire.com/?s6y9nwn27w2g3gb)
CV2 Hack OST by Optomon NSF (http://www.mediafire.com/?cs8bcku707ty3zk)
Title: Re: If Castlevania II was linear
Post by: Aridale on September 20, 2012, 07:48:59 PM
that soundtrack by Optomon is BAD ASS. I have it as just another album in my mp3 collection. Its that good
Title: Re: If Castlevania II was linear
Post by: Lelygax on September 21, 2012, 05:41:13 AM
What I need to play these *.NSF files?
Also Im stuck in Dracula Shadows now, I need only one more Dracula part (Evil Book or something like that). I need to go to Fleva, but I dont know how, I have only these clues:
"Use the power of Dracula's ring to get to Fleva." Right, this one is easy....
I found this earlier in secret mansion "Evil birds used to go from here to Fleva land." this is easy too, because in this mansion exists a big bird that is the only enemy that doesnt have a name nor lifebar using the Monster Encyclopedia. I tried to equip Dracula's Ring and wait near the open window (the only one in this mansion that you can see the mountains, also this is close to the bird, in fact he flies near this window throwing stones every time), I tried to duck, hold up, jump on it and nothing works lol

edit: I discovered searching in the internet, I hate to do this, hate even more when the answer to the problem is so simple. The thing is that this bir clue is useless, it doesnt have anything to do with the ring riddle. The worst part is that this game dont have a warp room and I walked for almost 12 minutes to reach this wrong place, so boring hau auu~
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: If Castlevania II was linear
Post by: TheCruelAngel on September 21, 2012, 06:17:56 AM
For NSF Players.

http://famitracker.com/wiki/index.php?title=List_of_NSF_players (http://famitracker.com/wiki/index.php?title=List_of_NSF_players)

I recommend NSFPlay since I'm still stuck in the 90's and use winamp as my default mp3 player and NSFPlay provides a plugin just for winamp.
Title: Re: If Castlevania II was linear
Post by: Lelygax on September 21, 2012, 07:16:02 AM
Thanks, I will download NSFPlay, since in the wikipedia page it seems to be one of the betters and you recomended it.
Title: Re: If Castlevania II was linear
Post by: Inccubus on September 21, 2012, 03:47:34 PM
Personally, I like NotSoFatso the best for Winamp. The NSFE format is pretty awesome. I have both of those files I uploaded converted to NSFE if anyone wants them.
Title: Re: If Castlevania II was linear
Post by: Lelygax on September 21, 2012, 04:00:21 PM
What changes? Also this NotSoFatso is better even for people that dont use Winamp?
Title: Re: If Castlevania II was linear
Post by: Aridale on September 21, 2012, 11:30:52 PM
here I made mp3s of em and uploaded this... almost 2 years ago accordin to mediafire lol

http://www.mediafire.com/?eca2p1a5ybkpbmn (http://www.mediafire.com/?eca2p1a5ybkpbmn)
Title: Re: If Castlevania II was linear
Post by: Lelygax on September 22, 2012, 03:05:40 PM
Thanks, its a Mediafire bug or you came from future? lol
Title: Re: If Castlevania II was linear
Post by: Belmont Stakes on September 22, 2012, 06:44:50 PM
Games like Rygar, Zelda II, Battle of Olympus, Faxanadu and to a lesser extent Bionic Commando definitely prove that the game could be done as a linear style adventure game. As demonstrated later in the series with LOI and COD the game can have exploration but keep a level to level style consistency. The only problem with those two games was the lack of pit traps and instant death scenes. I have been trying all summer to modify Simon's Quest with the help of the CursED game editor. What I have come to know is the game can have a more platform type feel to it. I believe that characters and backgrounds from different games could be implemented to make the game more diverse in look and game play. If you look at the graphics of Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde (an awful game by most standards) Goonies II, Ninja Gaiden you can see how some backgrounds and characters would fit right in to the game.
Title: Re: If Castlevania II was linear
Post by: Lelygax on September 22, 2012, 07:34:00 PM
Quote from: Simon Eyes Her on September 22, 2012, 06:44:50 PM
Games like Rygar, Zelda II, Battle of Olympus, Faxanadu and to a lesser extent Bionic Commando definitely prove that the game could be done as a linear style adventure game. As demonstrated later in the series with LOI and COD the game can have exploration but keep a level to level style consistency. The only problem with those two games was the lack of pit traps and instant death scenes. I have been trying all summer to modify Simon's Quest with the help of the CursED game editor. What I have come to know is the game can have a more platform type feel to it. I believe that characters and backgrounds from different games could be implemented to make the game more diverse in look and game play. If you look at the graphics of Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde (an awful game by most standards) Goonies II, Ninja Gaiden you can see how some backgrounds and characters would fit right in to the game.

Have you changed your photo and nick? Because I know that I've seen this signature before lol

On - topic: The funny thing is that if you put Ninja Gaiden's Ryu in any 2D Castlevania it will fit like a glove and the character from The Goonies appeared in the first Wai Wai World. I only played 12 seconds of Rygar for NES but I know that this game for PS2 is a predecessor to God of War and thus Lords of Shadows and Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde is a game ahead of the time, since the ideas of the creators doesnt translates very well in this game. I played Faxanadu in PS1 (NES emulator to PS1) and this game is cool, but Battle of Olympus and Bionic Commando I think that I never have seen, even if Bionic Commando is a very familiar name, IDK why.

 What is that CursED? A level editor? It can edit for example "if you exit room A by the left, you appear in room D"? Im asking that because if yes, you can create warp rooms. Backtracking now and then on foot with a map is cool, but everytime and without a map is horrible. Atleast with a warp it could be better.
Title: Re: If Castlevania II was linear
Post by: Inccubus on September 22, 2012, 08:01:41 PM
The NSFE format can give each song it's own title, length, fade out, and arrange them into a custom playlist that you can export into a winamp playlist.
Title: Re: If Castlevania II was linear
Post by: Aridale on September 22, 2012, 11:59:34 PM
Waaaaaaat? Only 12 sec of Rygar?! Your doin yourself an injustice! Such a great game and killer soundtrack
Title: Re: If Castlevania II was linear
Post by: Inccubus on September 23, 2012, 12:17:58 AM
I've never played the NES version at all. I'd better put it on my Wii's SD card.
Title: Re: If Castlevania II was linear
Post by: Lelygax on September 23, 2012, 12:23:12 AM
I only played 12 seconds because in that day I changed the roms quickly, but if that game is so good I need to play it.
Title: Re: If Castlevania II was linear
Post by: Aridale on September 23, 2012, 08:40:10 AM
It is really good. Really unique too with its blend of topdown 2d and sidescrolling. Kinda confusing in CV2 kinda way which hurts it a bit but still a fantastic game and one of my long time favs. Dont forget he can gain levels =D
Title: Re: If Castlevania II was linear
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on September 23, 2012, 03:11:19 PM
NotSoFatso is awesome because of the awesomeness of the NSFe format.
Creating playlists off of NSFE's is so much better for your drive space than having MP3's of chiptune music.  It's also pretty awesome with the tags, and it handles most custom chipsets rather well (VRC6,7, Famicom Disc System), so you can hear the (somewhat) better Zelda II: The Adventure of Link, Metroid, and Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse tracks (though I think most plugins can do this these days).
Title: Re: If Castlevania II was linear
Post by: Lelygax on September 23, 2012, 07:54:12 PM
Thanks, it seems that I really need to check that :)
Title: Re: If Castlevania II was linear
Post by: TheCruelAngel on September 24, 2012, 08:56:57 AM
Seriously need to check out this NotSoFatso now, NSFe sounds awesome and hell yeah winamp users ftw!

Seems like Simon's Quest is popular for fan modification to try and "fix" (being subjective, etc.)! Heck, even I had an idea floating around in my head to try and do my own reinterpretation, but I'm lazy and that never came to fruition.  ;D

Title: Re: If Castlevania II was linear
Post by: Phoenix7786 on October 03, 2012, 01:42:00 AM
Quote from: TheCruelAngel on September 24, 2012, 08:56:57 AM
Seriously need to check out this NotSoFatso now, NSFe sounds awesome and hell yeah winamp users ftw!

Seems like Simon's Quest is popular for fan modification to try and "fix" (being subjective, etc.)! Heck, even I had an idea floating around in my head to try and do my own reinterpretation, but I'm lazy and that never came to fruition.  ;D

I'll shill this mod to the end of of time (especially since our own Dungeonites worked on the sprites!) that shows why a properly-translated CV2 would have raised the game on a high pedestal alongside the others.

Castlevania 2: Simon's Quest Revamped TSE is here (PC and Mac) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqgwn_DgRTY#ws)
Title: Re: If Castlevania II was linear
Post by: TheCruelAngel on October 03, 2012, 10:54:18 AM
Wow, that looks awesome!  :o I'm downloading that tonight, so hard.
Title: Re: If Castlevania II was linear
Post by: Phoenix7786 on October 03, 2012, 02:17:04 PM
Quote from: TheCruelAngel on October 03, 2012, 10:54:18 AM
Wow, that looks awesome!  :o I'm downloading that tonight, so hard.

The game was made in (I believe) Gamemaker, so but it doesn't offer any joystick support. I compensated by downloading Joy2Key (which I highly recommend), and I played through it with no problems.

I only encountered one bug. When the ferryman rows you across the lake, DO NOT crouch while the screen transitions. I got stuck inside his ship, with no way to move or die. I had to reset and do an entire mansion over (which now can get tough).

EDIT: I've been informed that being made in Gamemaker has nothing to do with the joystick incompatibility. I have modified the line above to reflect that.
Title: Re: If Castlevania II was linear
Post by: TheCruelAngel on October 03, 2012, 03:17:28 PM
Good to know, thanks for the heads up!  ;D
Title: Re: If Castlevania II was linear
Post by: Inccubus on October 03, 2012, 08:18:38 PM
Quote from: Phoenix7786 on October 03, 2012, 02:17:04 PM
The game was made in (I believe) Gamemaker, so it doesn't offer any joystick support. I compensated by downloading Joy2Key (which I highly recommend), and I played through it with no problems.

I only encountered one bug. When the ferryman rows you across the lake, DO NOT crouch while the screen transitions. I got stuck inside his ship, with no way to move or die. I had to reset and do an entire mansion over (which now can get tough).

Off topic. Not having joystick support has nothing to do with it being a GameMaker game. Joy2key is a great way to augment those games that don't implement joystick support.

On topic. I really need to try this beastie out. I've heard good things about it in it's development threads over in the Fan Stuff section.
Title: Re: If Castlevania II was linear
Post by: Kale on October 04, 2012, 12:41:53 AM
it would be Zeliard.