However these topics can always make good discussion fuel!
a thousand year feud over a girl ? really ?
Same can be said for Helen of Troy! BAM!
a thousand year feud over a girl ? really ? the cause of dracula's vampirism is a freakin' stone ? character design that looks like world of warcraft rejects ? yet another girly looking protagonist ? whats RIGHT about it ? dont get me wrong, i enjoyed the game ( especially that little Pumpkin guy ), but i dont see it as a good starting point for an age - old conflict storywise.Personally I more or less OK with LOI as origin story. It could have been done better, in particular without Castlevania cliche story of "two friends - one become evil", that was used several times through the series by that point. Origin deserved to stand out from the rest of the series. Instead, it's using already tired plot-device and couldn't even execute it decently. For the player "big revelation" of Mathias being the culprit behind Leon's trouble was literally nothing. Unlike Leon, who supposedly knew Mathias for a long time, player was familiar with him for a few sentences in the intro and manual, so he didn't had any reason to care about Mathias or anything. Yeah, some guy, who was mentioned in the intro of the game is the main villain...big deal!!
I always viewed the incident that occured between Mathias and Leon as negligible as far the Belmonts feud against Dracula is concerned. It's not like Leon's motivation directly affects that of later Belmonts anyway. Dracula threatens the world and they are the only capable to destroy him. You could say IGA retconned this to be their motivation when he wrote the story for LoI, but it makes far more sense if this was only a secondary reason at best. So I don't think it's correct to think that what Mathias did to Leon is THE reason why the Belmonts fight against Dracula. It's more like a prelude than an actual cause, I think.
15th century Europe. During the Dark Ages, there was a man who was feared by all. A man who has stopped being human. His name wasAdventure Time with Chris & Drac,
Count Vlad Tepes, otherwise known as Dracula. His territory was located at the outskirts of Transylvania, at the Wallachia territory, where he
used a taboo art to resurrect an evil deity. The deity granted him power and in exchange, he summoned several apparitions from the spirit
world in order to scorch and massacre the entire nation of Wallachia with darkness.
Transylvania, a small country in Europe, is associated even today with a demon's legend. With his powerful evil power, the legacy of
Count Dracula has been dreaded by the people. However, no matter how many times Dracula comes back, he never manages to fully
change the world into darkness as he is always put away by Simon, a descendant of the Belmont clan. However, the devil Dracula has
existed long before his first confrontation. Not as the devil Dracula, but as an evil sorcerer. Count Dracula was a fanatical demon worshipper,
who built a dark castle at the outskirts of Transylvania and conducted evil rituals every night. He has summoned several demons from the
other world to serve him and he himself has been trying to get eternal life by becoming a demon king possesing evil powers. With each
day, Count Dracula's evil powers became more frigtening, as he spread fear and terror to the people of the village. Until one day, a man
stood up. It was Christopher, an ancestor of the Belmont family. Christopher rushed to the dark castle. Many demons and traps layed out
are waiting for him at the castle. Will he be able to defeat the transformed devil, Count Dracula, as expected?
The deity granted him power..
Death: This power... I offer to the king who wields the Crimson Stone!
I needed a powerful vampire's soul. That is all.
The Belmont Clan, inheriting the burden of finding Mathias, continue to hunt down vampires.
For this reason, all members of the Belmont Clan are bestowed with the title, Vampire Hunter.
Feared for their powers, they are shunned by society. To further their troubles, each slain
vampire only adds to the growing power of Dracula.
he himself has been trying to get eternal life by becoming a demon king possesing evil powers..
IF limited life is God's decree, then I shall defy it!! And within that eternity, I shall curse Him forevermore!
the devil Dracula has existed long before his first confrontation. Not as the devil Dracula, but as an evil sorcerer.(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/c0mbat/iga2-2.png)
And seriously people, don't underestimate the loss of a beloved as motivation for just about anything in the heart of a human being.This is 100% true. "mathias lost his wife, what a baby." Mathias was stricten with grief & was bedridden for quite some time. His life was devoted to God, he though He could do no wrong to him. I'm sure his anger was building as he felt powerless in his bed, after all he's done in God's name, he felt betrayed.
If you were to lose a loved one, be it significant other, child, etc. I wonder how YOU would react. You probably wouldn't go to work/school/wherever the next day, you'd be in an entirely different state of mind. Like Mathias.
In the CV universe, he was never Voivode of Transylvania and waged war against the Turks. Konami wanted him to be something more than what history gave us.
If you were to lose a loved one, be it significant other, child, etc. I wonder how YOU would react. You probably wouldn't go to work/school/wherever the next day, you'd be in an entirely different state of mind. Like Mathias.With approach in mind, its ultimately makes Leon as insane as Mathias himself.
A couple of things that really disappointed me, from what I can remember, are that the Vampire Killer was just given to Leon by Rinaldo and the game didn't mention much about Matthias'/Dracula's and Death's first encounter.That should have been somewhat discussed in the game. While the overall plot kind of works, this all "Mathias is culprit" thing comes of as rushed and out of nowhere in the actual game.
Well in my opinion they dont fight Dracula because of this, I think that the first kid of Leon trained because of that, but after they other descendents have forgotten why they do that and simple continues to fight monsters,
That is incorrect I believe. Juste Belmont vaguely mentions the events of LoI in passing. Likely a lead up hint for the LoI/AoS production plan.Seriously? So I must have overlooked that. can you show us this dialogue please? Because Im really curous about that now, I've played this game various times, but I think that maybe I stopped to give attention to the text without noticing that.
Inccubus, I think one of the reasons I fancied Vlad cursing God and becoming Dracula is based on the notion of unfathomable loss. I take a lot of that interpretation with Coppula's Dracula and that it was his anger and sorrow was just so great he became one beyond God's and death's domain. So I definitely wasn't discounting that. And that's more to what I was referring to when I say I was a little disappointed to hear Dracula's origin is based more on a stone versus the culmination of his own personal anguish and sorrow (though it's still intrinsically tied together, so that's still awesome).
Let's face it every character in the game is an innocent lamenting over someone or something.Everyone except Mathias, he is only lamenting, but not innocently since the others are just pawns playing in his game.
Yeah, I like Dracula's origin in the Coppola movie, too (which coincidentally has parallels with Lament. I gotta feeling IGA's a fan as well)
Bram Stoker's Dracula - Prologue (extended) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BlnxN0JZMg#)
Everyone except Mathias, he is only lamenting, but not innocently since the others are just pawns playing in his game.I would say he was innocent at the start(before the game starts) when his wife died but during the events of LoI he wasn't so innocent.
Where did the other Belmont hunters come from? Who was Trevor's great-great-great-great-great-grandfather? And who was his grandfather? And the grandfather of him? If they were all descendants of Leon, then who was Leon's wife? Or did he birth a child out of wedlock? It's 99% certain that Sara wasn't the mother of his children.Those are the reasons (amongst the others) that I have with the old CV timeline. Those question so simple to answer and they are kind of important to the overall timeline, yet, they were never answered.
And where does LoI take place, even?Some generic mish-mash incarnation of Europe, I assume.
If they do a game about that it would be cool, but PLEASE, dont mention the damn DMC (Demon Castle War, not Devil May Cry), they hyped so much this DMC thing that now its almost impossible to they do a game that will be true to our expectatives.Dude, that one's abbreviated as DCW, not DMC.
Dude, that one's abbreviated as DCW.
And where does LoI take place, even?
Some generic mish-mash incarnation of Europe, I assume.
Eh, I like LoI pretty well. Everything about it has grown on me over time. I still think LoD is by far the best 3Dvania but LoI is a good game, that includes the story.
I still prefer to think that Castlevania Legends happened though, and that the later Belmonts are all descendants of Dracula by way of Alucard. It adds a whole other dimension to the struggle. Inheriting the weight of the sins of the father, but also the strength to combat him. It's only fitting that Dracula's fate would be bound by his own bloodline.
Hi, I'm new here. I was just reading through this thread and though I haven't played LoI (only got into CV less then a year ago), I've seen the ending and I've interpret it differently. I did not see desires for revenge in Leon's words but rather concern and love for his friend Mattias as well as love and respect for Sara's last wish. While admitting that he defeated Walter with hatred in his heart, he did it not for revenge but to fulfill her wish: preventing others from suffering the same cursed fate. this is what I believe Leon passed down to his descendents: the desire to protect humanity from the cursed fate (with Dracula being the main focus). Just my two cents.Welcome teddyj, I dont finished LoI so I dont have seen the ending yet, but what you are saying here is really interesting, if someone that already played LoI until the end can kindly confirm that I would be happy, since I dont wanna to see the ending myself and spoil my future gameplay. :)
Or until Leon gets laid and settles down.I doubt it. Considering that he was completely manipulated and ended up having to sacrifice someone he loved, I doubt he'd just mellow out that easily. Especially considering that the one who manipulated him is someone he saw as a close friend.
Face it, you can't stay bitter for very long when a cute girl is bouncing on your schlong.
I doubt it. Considering that he was completely manipulated and ended up having to sacrifice someone he loved, I doubt he'd just mellow out that easily. Especially considering that the one who manipulated him is someone he saw as a close friend.Sorry but I cant resist this chance nippah~
The same could be said of Mathias. Did he just move on when his wife died? No. He concocted that plan just to spite "God", someone he saw as a close friend.
Sorry guys, Leon's motives are of pure hatred. While he does fight Mathias/Dracula, he does fight his most loyal minion (Death). After the battle with Death, Leon tells Death to give Mathias a message which is as follows:
"You have become a cursed being and I will never forgive you. This whip and my kinsmen will destroy you one day . From this day on, the Belmont clan will hunt the night!!!"
It would seem that Leon's motives are pure revenge. Though it is possible that over the generations, this personal grudge is forgotten and the motives for fighting Dracula become more selfless.
I think everyone's desire (excdept the one person) to have Leon be all angsty and vindictive points to some personal inner grudges held by some of the people on these forums. Face the fact: Leon was in his prime on the verge of being able to finally score some hot tail then BAM! He has to kill the girl who was ready to spread'em for him. Forget the revenge aspect, the dude was horny. Even if he was mad and bitter and grief-stricken, he was still horny. It wouldn't have been long before he found some other wench to bed down. It's only human nature. It's the way of gods to hold grudges for generation after generation after generation; it's the way of man to seek solace in a vagina (or man-love, if he's classic Grecian).I usually don't like to use memes, but I think it's the time, when such action would be appropriate:
I think everyone's desire (excdept the one person) to have Leon be all angsty and vindictive points to some personal inner grudges held by some of the people on these forums. Face the fact: Leon was in his prime on the verge of being able to finally score some hot tail then BAM! He has to kill the girl who was ready to spread'em for him. Forget the revenge aspect, the dude was horny. Even if he was mad and bitter and grief-stricken, he was still horny. It wouldn't have been long before he found some other wench to bed down. It's only human nature. It's the way of gods to hold grudges for generation after generation after generation; it's the way of man to seek solace in a vagina (or man-love, if he's classic Grecian).
Where did that anime pic come from?? It looks like an adult version of Naru Osaka from Sailor Moon!
Looks like a redhead Haman Karn.
I will certainly be hated by all.. but i find the LOS Plot nice !
Just for this Line
You have become a cursed being and I will never forgive you. This whip and my kinsmen will destroy you someday. From this day on, the Belmont Clan will hunt the night.
I will certainly be hated by all.. but i find the LOS Plot nice !
I will certainly be hated by all.. but i find the LOS Plot nice !
Just for this Line
You have become a cursed being and I will never forgive you. This whip and my kinsmen will destroy you someday. From this day on, the Belmont Clan will hunt the night.
I assume your talking about LoI and not LoS. If so you're not hated by me. I love the plot of LoI sure it could be improved a bit but what plot couldn't :)yep, talking à bout lament of innocense. Just getting confused with all the news LOS. I Agree with you, They were many others elements to tell in the story
Yeah, I'd wager you'd be closer to being "hated by all" for enjoying the story in LoS instead. ;D
Though all would never be possible since I can't imagine hating someone because they enjoyed the story in a game that I didn't enjoy, and I'm sure there are others around who feel the same way. Though I'm sure there are other characters around here who have you believe otherwise. ;)
Well, the look of some of the characters notwithstanding, the story itself worked. I was pleasantly surprised by where the plot went, and I really liked how the Vampire Killer was brought into creation. However, the big reveal at the end lacked the proper effect for me. To really sell the betrayal and ultimate tragedy of Leon, Mathias needed to be more involved in the plot. Seriously, over the course of the game I kind of forgot about him. Then he shows up at the end and he's like, "Oh hey Leon." And I'm like, "Oh, hey comrade mentioned in the intro. I was wondering when you actually were going to do something." That definitely made it a tad anticlimactic for me. Overall, the story wasn't bad. It just wasn't presented in the best way it could have been. In all honesty the presentation felt pretty lackluster to me.Yeah, the idea was good, but the execution sucked.
Agreed. Igarashi-sama wouldn't have let the plot veer so close to Harmony's setup. However, I personally think it's a better scenario than what we got. In fact, it would really have delivered a payoff with much more resonance if you witnessed Mathias "killed" or giving up his life for you or possibly covering your flank during the final race to the final confrontation. Leon would then have had his friend's death on his conscience at that point, only to discover Mathias had been the mastermind behind everything. THEN it would have been a betrayal with some pathos. However, I feel that if that had been the case it would just have left me really dissatisfied that there was no physical battle with Mathias at the end knowing a sequel was never in the works.Exactly ! :D
My idea, for LOI improvement, is that they could have presented events from the past of Mathias and Leon in the form of flashbacks.AND a preview of Trevor's Battle !
AND a preview of Trevor's Battle !Kind of like the glimpse of the future that Bardok saw of Goku facing Freeza?
Yeah, Joachim was strange - they put a lot of effort and personlaity into characetr who was basically random boss. It looked like there should be more to him.
Actually it goes for pretty much whole LOI cast. They are very colourful bunch of heroes and monsters (mostly monsters) and they had a lot of potential, that wasn't really used.
Yeah it's too bad they didn't add storysections/cutscenes for him but I guess CG ain't cheap.Cutscenes in LOI used game engine.
Cutscenes in LOI used game engine.
But my guess is they knew the game would look better to consumers with 2 alternate characters.Peronsally, I don't see nothing special in additional characters in Castlevania games. Mostly they feel like an afterthought. I'd prefer if developers spent more time on making main character gameplay better and more interesting, rather then spending their time on bonus characters.
The whole idea for alternate characters, began with Rodo of BloodIt's not exactly like that. Despite all my disliking towards playable Maria, I must say she doesn't feel like an afterthought. The same goes for Eric in Bloodlines (though I don't dilsike him ;D).
Sure Joachim looks out of place, since he is just a boss.....unless they have put in him a story, like how he went to fight Walter and got imprisoned, like the sisters mode from PoR. Maxim you just could say that you've played his side, before he was consumed by the Draculas relics power and the Juste story never happened since it was prevented by Maxim, i don't know, i just like to play from the side of some other character the game, but if he doesn't have a story or at least something interesting to offer, then being or not being there is pretty much the same to me.I'm with you. Extra characters are only good when they add something to the overall story like the sisters in PoR.
Alternate costumes is an interesting idea, but not with silly designs. They could offer you even some kind of new power, but that is for those who like stuff like that i guess.
Characters from CV3, they didn't required something special to unlock them, they depend on which path you'll chose and beating the area boss, so they weren't something special, they were meant to be playable from start of the game to the end of the game.