Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: Pumpkin Glow on September 22, 2012, 10:13:27 AM
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any ideas?? any broad guesses are more than welcome!
oh by the way, those Spanish dudes need to keep their hands off of my enchanting video game series!
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Well, the Lords of Shadow games are going to be a trilogy, so there may be a chance a Japanese team has another go at a Castlevania game after Lords 2 is released.
You should also be a bit more nuanced when expressing your opinion about the MS games since this can upset people who like them. That only leads to trouble.
Mirror of Fate seems like it's going to offer the full Castlevania experience since I haven't seen any heavy high fantasy influences yet that were prevalent in its predecessor. So you may find that game to be to your liking.
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Glad to hear someone thinks there might be a japanese game after LoS2.
I am more than willing to take any hate for my opinion of Lords of Shadow because I really want that series out of the way.
thanks for the mirror of fate recommendation but it looks bland and ugly to me.
here, let me give you a lift
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Perhaps Konami will outsource it to WayForward, so we can get a true 2D HD experience
The only thing that'll make me buy a Vita is if a exclusive CV is made for it
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Dream scenerio: 3D modernvania, In 2015, developed by From Software.
Moderatly realistic scenerio:If we're talking 2D, 2015, developed by Wayforward.
Nightmare scenerio: 3D modernvania, 2015, developed by Sparks Unlimited.
The only thing that'll make me buy a Vita is if a exclusive CV is made for it
Konami seems to be fascinated with the iOS craze (their TGS lineup was full of mobile games and like 3 console games ) so If anything I see a 2D CV on the iPad happening before a Vita game.
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I think after LoS2 comes out CV might be on a bit of a hiatus until Konami assembles a Japanese team or chooses a currently existing one (I choose wayforward) to pick up the mantle.
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I would prefer a japanese developer for castlevania but I have to admit WayFoward's aliens:infestation and bloodrayne:betrayal were impressive.
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I would prefer a japanese developer for castlevania but I have to admit WayFoward's aliens:infestation and bloodrayne:betrayal were impressive.
Wayforward is an excelent developer. They recently released Double Dragon Neon, and it's gotta be one of my favorite games so far. Also, almost in any interview when they are asked about what games they'd like to work on, they've pretty much let known they'd LOVE to make a Castlevania game. That, and one of the most recent interviews with Jake Kaufman(who does a lot of music for the Wayforward games) said his dream would be to compose for both the Castlevania series and the Mega Man series. So, basically Wayforward is up for it. All we need is Konami to be up for it. If Konami approached Wayforward, no doubt they'd accept within a heartbeat. ;D
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Speaking of Wayforward and Castlevania, this Castlevania like game just came out recently for the 3DS.
Hotel Transylvania Game Launch Trailer - 3DS DS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dKtkirg0Qo#)
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Speaking of Wayforward and Castlevania, this Castlevania like game just came out recently for the 3DS.
Hotel Transylvania Game Launch Trailer - 3DS DS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dKtkirg0Qo#)
Haha thanks for sharing, we already have a Hotel Transylvania topic, but this topic only have some images. I didnt knew that this game have been already launched, I not even knew that this game is for DS too.
This game even have bat and mist transformations, if I have a 3DS someday I will need to check this game. Nipaah~
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Not very soon, I believe.
Konami will most likely give CV brand to the new western team after LOS will be finished. Or some small Japanese game company. And then there is a question: to what continuity new CV will belong? Non-MercurySteam LOS-sequel is a posibility, as well as "western-oriented Castlevania" from eastern developer.
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Not very soon, I believe.
Konami will most likely give CV brand to the new western team after LOS will be finished. Or some small Japanese game company. And then there is a question: to what continuity new CV will belong? Non-MercurySteam LOS-sequel is a posibility, as well as "western-oriented Castlevania" from eastern developer.
If that happens it will be a awake-nightmare, I dont totally dislike LOS, it is a cool game (if I forget the fact that it is a castlevania game maybe I can even manage to like it) but if they continue this series and discard the old timeline it will be horrible. Sorry if my opinion is not the same of some part of users here, but Im really expecting a castlevania game like the ones that came before LOS.
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Sorry if my opinion is not the same of some part of users here, but Im really expecting a castlevania game like the ones that came before LOS.
What do you mean "ones before LOS"? "Metroidvanias"? Classic'vanias? "3D IGA'vanias"? There were a LOT before LOS, after all.
And I'm afraid it will not happen either way. Not after success of LOS and most likely success of LOS2. The only way I see 2D CV returning, is some some small scale tribute project akin to MegaMan 9 and 10. Or downloadable title for the networks, that will not be big as regular DS "metroidvania" anyway and mostly will be intermediate project between "big 3D titles". Konami want to have it big with Castlevania and in their mind (not that I disagree) 3D is the way to hit jackpot with gaming audience.
And the old timeline is already discarded (save for Pachislots that doesn't count for anything significant) or at least was put on indefinite hold - LOS existence is a prove of it. It is always a possibility that Konami will return to it for some reason, but after LOS, it will be much easier to create games in "blank state" universe rather then uphold multiple conventions and timeline hijinks of the previously established continuities. And no, nobody will care about "old fans", when corporation can make more money on the general public.
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Except IGA gave them a 400 year blank slate (between LoI and CV3) along with 1999, so there's no need to close off the timeline.
And one problem I have with LoS (aside from its abbreviation being too close to LoI and LoL), is the Combat Cross. Looks like a total Masamune ripoff.
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages2.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20101018053535%2Fcastlevania%2Fimages%2F1%2F1e%2FCombat_cross.png&hash=2b0c11e886b62fa99b0788e9ff75830a02845d5a)
-Image provided courtesy of Crisis-
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages23.fotki.com%2Fv805%2Fphotos%2F2%2F214446%2F779582%2Fmorningstar01-vi.jpg&hash=9a8195ea8499311efe34989cacc1b6616454f1fd)
I shouldn't need to point out all the ways Masamune's morning star is so much better.
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fun fact: i'm the first one that edited & uploaded that image of the Combat Cross to the 'net ;)
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(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages23.fotki.com%2Fv805%2Fphotos%2F2%2F214446%2F779582%2Fmorningstar01-vi.jpg&hash=9a8195ea8499311efe34989cacc1b6616454f1fd)
I shouldn't need to point out all the ways Masamune's morning star is so much better.
Looks a bit short-ranged and unwieldy, but still hardcore nonetheless.
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Like all things, I think it extends when she gets excited.
Anything longer would be even harder to wield. It would take a lot of strength to give a chain those sizes significant velocity to have much of a decent impact.
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Like all things, I think it extends when she gets excited.
+1
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What do you mean "ones before LOS"? "Metroidvanias"? Classic'vanias? "3D IGA'vanias"? There were a LOT before LOS, after all.
Any of them, being 3D or 2D.
Except IGA gave them a 400 year blank slate (between LoI and CV3) along with 1999, so there's no need to close off the timeline.
And one problem I have with LoS (aside from its abbreviation being too close to LoI and LoL), is the Combat Cross. Looks like a total Masamune ripoff.
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages2.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20101018053535%2Fcastlevania%2Fimages%2F1%2F1e%2FCombat_cross.png&hash=2b0c11e886b62fa99b0788e9ff75830a02845d5a)
-Image provided courtesy of Crisis-
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages23.fotki.com%2Fv805%2Fphotos%2F2%2F214446%2F779582%2Fmorningstar01-vi.jpg&hash=9a8195ea8499311efe34989cacc1b6616454f1fd)
I shouldn't need to point out all the ways Masamune's morning star is so much better.
Where I can find more about that Masamune? I dont know from what game/light novel/visual novel/ sound novel/manga/anime/comics/series she is from. :(
fun fact: i'm the first one that edited & uploaded that image of the Combat Cross to the 'net ;)
Cool, thanks for doing that, when you did it?
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And the old timeline is already discarded (save for Pachislots that doesn't count for anything significant) or at least was put on indefinite hold - LOS existence is a prove of it. It is always a possibility that Konami will return to it for some reason, but after LOS, it will be much easier to create games in "blank state" universe rather then uphold multiple conventions and timeline hijinks of the previously established continuities. And no, nobody will care about "old fans", when corporation can make more money on the general public.
I don't get this reasoning. We already had self contained AU games before like Circle of the Moon, the N64 games and the Kid Dracula games. Despite their existence, it did not stop the main timeline from being continued. Why would it be any different with Lords? The only difference is that it's a self contained trilogy. I'm not saying I'm 100% convinced that they will return to the old timeline after LoS, but you're just being dismissive for no reason.
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Where I can find more about that Masamune? I dont know from what game/light novel/visual novel/ sound novel/manga/anime/comics/series she is from. :(
Masamune Shirow's the name of the artist. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he did the original Ghost in the Shell manga series.
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Masamune Shirow's done a bunch of works.
Ghost In The Shell
(New) Dominion: Tank Police
Orion
Appleseed
Black Magic: M-66
Wild Wet West
Hellhound
Galhound
Hellcat
Areopagus Arthur
Yellow Hawk
Colosseum Pick
Pursuit
Optional Orientation
Battle on Mechanism
Metamorphosis in Amazoness
Arice in Jargon
Bike Nut
Gun Dancing
Pile Up
Neuro Hard
Landlock
Gundress
Ghost Hound
Real Drive
Horned Owl (video game)
Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon (video game)
Yarudora Series 3: Sanpaguita (video game)
He likes to draw fanservice. He dabbles heavily in philosophy and religion and merges it with sci-fi. He also loves to write notes in his manga. His art style in his manga is simplistic, but his full-color girls are notorioiusly hot.
You can easily find torrents/uploads of his art book Intron Depot.
...Wow my respect jumped up 8 points overnight somehow.
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Correct, Shirow did the original GitS and Appleseed, etc. He's done a lot of one off images of unique characters and settings, so I wouldn't be surprised if the provided image above is just a single image from an art book or something.
Also thanks Crisis for that edit and upload!
As for another J-dev CV title, I could see it happen, but that doesn't necessarily guarantee a good game or following the established timeline. I mean, Judgement was developed by a Japanese studio.
And if I may be so bold and interject a personal opinion, those Spaniard really understand gothic and classical European architecture and design (hell's it's in their backyard!). I've appreciated LoS's environments and aesthetics and hope that's something that carries over to future titles of the series (sorry Egypt, I didn't find you that fun to play around in). ;D
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And if I may be so bold and interject a personal opinion, those Spaniard really understand gothic and classical European architecture and design (hell's it's in their backyard!). I've appreciated LoS's environments and aesthetics and hope that's something that carries over to future titles of the series (sorry Egypt, I didn't find you that fun to play around in). ;D
If it's the environmental style is more like MoF than the first LoS, sure. Then again, it's not that different from what CV's general look is, visually. I do not want more grounded European looking castles just for the sake of making it look more realistic. And as I've said before, I'm rather sick of the medieval setting for CV games. Give me a Victorian set CV ANYDAY!
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Except IGA gave them a 400 year blank slate (between LoI and CV3) along with 1999, so there's no need to close off the timeline.
They still need not to mess it up with unneccessary retcons. And besides, it obvious that Mathias wouldn't be present in this timeframe as Dracula. And since for many people "Castlevania = Dracula" then this timeframe is not an option for a game.
There is something that could be done with that, of course: for example you can play as non-Belmont character, but that once again will yield retcons or unneccessary complications to the already established timeline.
And one problem I have with LoS (aside from its abbreviation being too close to LoI and LoL), is the Combat Cross. Looks like a total Masamune ripoff.
That is such a trivial and minor thing of no importance, that I am not sure why anyone can have problems with something like that. By that margin people could have been pissed of that Simon Belmont of 90-s was a blatant Conan rip-off. And that's much more important than design of the weapon.
Any of them, being 3D or 2D.
Will not happen. Past is dead.
IGA will not work on Castlevania (most likely). :)
I don't get this reasoning. We already had self contained AU games before like Circle of the Moon, the N64 games and the Kid Dracula games. Despite their existence, it did not stop the main timeline from being continued. Why would it be any different with Lords? The only difference is that it's a self contained trilogy. I'm not saying I'm 100% convinced that they will return to the old timeline after LoS, but you're just being dismissive for no reason.
Because no-one have ever continued those timelines, and I am not sure how many regular gamers are aware that they are not part of the regular timeline. I have doubts that any developers will create continuation of any of those games on purpose. For that they should be big fans.
And as far as I am aware CV64 and COTM weren't advertised as "completely new take on the series / reboot". LOS was advertised like that and made a very loud statement about how its storyline separate from old timeline. Its something that certainly will leave impact on the next developers, Konami and the series as a whole.
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1st - I never said that I want IGA back, I said that I want a game that doesnt is LoS and is like any of the games prior to LoS, so why you are focusing in IGA when I never mentioned him? To me didnt matter if its IGA, if it is Cox or if it is Santa Claus, I only want to see the result.
2nd - If "past is dead", they are fools, no one discard the past, if they forgot it they will be losing the good things that they learned too, they only need to filter it and remove the things that they have sure that is bad. If they discard it totally they will repeat the same errors.
3rd - Thanks to the people that said about Masamune Shirow to me, I think thats interesting and may I will go search more about that, but someone knows about that girl with the whip? She is from a random art or from something else?
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@Sumac
I don't understand why LoS being heavily advertised as a separate story makes any difference. Comic books have several continuities running along side each other all the time and sometimes they use the concept of a story being outside mainstream continuity as a major selling point, just like Lords. If comics can do that so can video game series. It's a non-issue.
Also, be careful not to slip back into your old persona. Be strong. :)
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By the same token that a game without Dracula isn't Castlevania, it could be said a game with whip swinging isn't Castlevania, but Bionic Commando or Rygar universe instead. I don't think of that dangling whip feat nor swinging as traits of a Castlevania game. Castlevania is a guy with a whip fighting Medusa Heads, skeletons, zombies, and a vampire. It doesn't have to be Dracula as far as I'm concerned. IGA did a lot for the series by opening it to the option of multiple vampires (aside from Carmilla). Oh, and Death. Has to have Death to be Castlevania. The final boss could be any kind of vampire. Even CV3 specifically stated that the Belmonts didn't fight just Dracula. By your argument that Dracula=Castlevania, or even Belmont+Dracula=Castlevania, then LoS is unarguably Castlevania, but clearly that's not the case as the argument still exists over whether LoS constitutes a real Castlevania game.
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By the same token that a game without Dracula isn't Castlevania, it could be said a game with whip swinging isn't Castlevania, but Bionic Commando or Rygar universe instead. I don't think of that dangling whip feat nor swinging as traits of a Castlevania game. Castlevania is a guy with a whip fighting Medusa Heads, skeletons, zombies, and a vampire. It doesn't have to be Dracula as far as I'm concerned. IGA did a lot for the series by opening it to the option of multiple vampires (aside from Carmilla). Oh, and Death. Has to have Death to be Castlevania. The final boss could be any kind of vampire. Even CV3 specifically stated that the Belmonts didn't fight just Dracula. By your argument that Dracula=Castlevania, or even Belmont+Dracula=Castlevania, then LoS is unarguably Castlevania, but clearly that's not the case as the argument still exists over whether LoS constitutes a real Castlevania game.
Looks like someone -1 you and me, the thing that Im really curious is if this person will appear and say why, since if we dont know why we cant correct or errors :rollseyes:
On-topic: Lets not forget too that a Castlevania game need to have Castlevania/Akumajou (the castle) if no Belmont nor Dracula appear in the game. :)
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By the way, to anyone that wants a copy of Intron Depot 2: Blades (the art book that Morning Star is in), here ya go:
http://flmsdown.net/ebooks/57556-intron-depot-2-blades-by-masamune-shirow.html (http://flmsdown.net/ebooks/57556-intron-depot-2-blades-by-masamune-shirow.html)
Was probably Sumac downvoting. Gettin' old and crotchety.
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Thanks, the link doesnt work but now that I know the name of the book I can search for it.
Google have a backup of it, so Im posting the original content from the page here:
Intron Depot 2 : Blades by Masamune Shirow
Dark Horse | 1998-12-23 | ISBN: 1569713820 | 170 pages | PDF | 90,74 MB
Intron Depot 2: Blades is the newest full-color book from creator Masamune Shirow (Appleseed and Ghost in the Shell). It collects 209 fantasy-themed illustrations, paintings, and computer graphics created by Shirow between 1992 and May 1998, none of which have been published in the U.S. before. It also contains detailed commentary (in both Japanese and English) on each work, and an info-box that explains the techniques used to produce each piece.
Download
Depositfiles
http://depositfiles.com/files/w5q5wb0t2 (http://depositfiles.com/files/w5q5wb0t2)
More Masamune Shirow Artbooks
Intron Depot 1 by Masamune Shirow
http://depositfiles.com/files/5fy3eldf8 (http://depositfiles.com/files/5fy3eldf8)
Masamune Shirow Poster Book
http://depositfiles.com/files/qcrkt2erh (http://depositfiles.com/files/qcrkt2erh)
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Looks like someone -1 you and me, the thing that Im really curious is if this person will appear and say why, since if we dont know why we cant correct or errors :rollseyes:
On-topic: Lets not forget too that a Castlevania game need to have Castlevania/Akumajou (the castle) if no Belmont nor Dracula appear in the game. :)
LoS had the castle. It just wasn't DRACULA's castle yet. But it still belonged to another Vampire.
also, DAT MASAMUNE SHIROW ART :B
seriously though, I completely disagree. the Combat Cross looks NOTHING like the morningstar in that image, besides having vaguely cross shaped hilts, and even then, the COmbat Cross is more deliberately given a retracting chain to make it's fully retracted form into a crucifix. They really look nothing alike. By that logic, the original leather whip is a rip off of Indiana Jones.
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By that logic, the original leather whip is a rip off of Indiana Jones.
a rip off of Indiana Jones.
Indiana Jones.
Jones.
Thanks! Now I finally understand the truth after all these year! ;D
Indiana Jones is Graham Jones father! He must have appeared to help seal Dracula's Castle in 1999., thats why no Belmont can use the Vampire Killer Whip, because Indiana is using it in their movies, but then in 1999 he appeared, give Julius the whip, they sealed Castlevania, Indiano took the whip back and in 2035 he gave it to Julius again. (we are in 2012 thats why they still do Indiana movies, but in 2035 they will stop because Indiana didnt have the whip :( )
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Oh snap! Lelygax just out-witted you there!
By the way, if you like some of the Masamune girls, I think they're part of his Galgrease series (hot, sexy, greasy girls). But yeah, I like his full-color girls.
I can't tell if Flame was trolling or serious. Of course Simon's whip was a knock-off of Indie's whip. Everyone knows that!
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Lets not forget that Cox made the clear distinction between Akumajo Dracula and Castlevania. . . :o
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1st - I never said that I want IGA back, I said that I want a game that doesnt is LoS and is like any of the games prior to LoS, so why you are focusing in IGA when I never mentioned him? To me didnt matter if its IGA, if it is Cox or if it is Santa Claus, I only want to see the result.
The result, the final version of the game, depends on its creator influence. If you want games, that similar in-spirit to what they were pre-LOS - you need its creators to be involved. But since this chance is very small, then, no matter what Castlevania games will be released after LOS, they would be different to what Castlevania was before LOS anyway.
2nd - If "past is dead", they are fools, no one discard the past, if they forgot it they will be losing the good things that they learned too, they only need to filter it and remove the things that they have sure that is bad. If they discard it totally they will repeat the same errors.
"Past is dead" in a sense that standards for the games have changed and many conventions that were common in the 16-bit era are not actual nowadays, hence there is very little chance that Konami will create (big) games that similar to the SNES / PS1 / GBA games. I didn't mean that they should discard all ideas from the past games (though in order to create something new they should partially do that from time to time).
I don't understand why LoS being heavily advertised as a separate story makes any difference. Comic books have several continuities running along side each other all the time and sometimes they use the concept of a story being outside mainstream continuity as a major selling point, just like Lords. If comics can do that so can video game series. It's a non-issue.
Also, be careful not to slip back into your old persona. Be strong.
Because its expected from the modern comic books. Unlike them, Castlevania was in the last years famous for having one big continuous storyline with few gaidens, that even now have questionable status. That's why, I believe, LOS being reboot was rather big deal. At least bigger than usual. And that's why I am sure that it will leave certain impact on the developers. What it would be? It's hard to say by now.
And besides, there is really very little chance that somebody will ever create a sequel to the COTM or CV64 timelines. One in a thousand, I dare say.
And my old persona never got anywhere. I am still the same. ;)
By the same token that a game without Dracula isn't Castlevania, it could be said a game with whip swinging isn't Castlevania, but Bionic Commando or Rygar universe instead. I don't think of that dangling whip feat nor swinging as traits of a Castlevania game. Castlevania is a guy with a whip fighting Medusa Heads, skeletons, zombies, and a vampire. It doesn't have to be Dracula as far as I'm concerned. IGA did a lot for the series by opening it to the option of multiple vampires (aside from Carmilla). Oh, and Death. Has to have Death to be Castlevania. The final boss could be any kind of vampire. Even CV3 specifically stated that the Belmonts didn't fight just Dracula. By your argument that Dracula=Castlevania, or even Belmont+Dracula=Castlevania, then LoS is unarguably Castlevania, but clearly that's not the case as the argument still exists over whether LoS constitutes a real Castlevania game.
Please, re-read carefully what I have wrought.
I never said, that for myself Castlevania always should have Dracula.I could accept any Castlevania as long as it's a good game and doesn't make random plots like AOS / DOS. I said, that for many people (general audience) Castlevania is about vamipre killers fighting Dracula and since series will most likely cater to the general audience, Dracula will be included in the series just for them.
And IGA did very little for opening Castlevania for the other vampires. Dracula was always present in his games in some fashion, even, when his presence was really tacked upon, like in POR for example.
LOS is a real and official Castlevania game because Konami said so. Fans opinions in that matter doesn't count, since they are not the ones who own the series and not the ones who decide what games belong to the franchise.
Was probably Sumac downvoting. Gettin' old and crotchety.
It wasn't me.
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I upvoted Sumac out of pity. I'm so charitable when my back goes out.
I will hold off my strongest opinions about MS's CV games until the I play the 3DS one. I will buy it as soon as it comes out. Unfortunately, I already ahve qualms with the story. It just sounds so cheesy and stupid. But like I said, I have every intention of buying it the opening week.
When's it due out?
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I kind of have to agree with Sumac's last statement there, LoS is Castlevania because Konami said so. If we were in charge of the IP (intellectual property) we could delegate what is and isn't a Castlevania title.
Hell if it we wanted to go wild we could retcon Bloodlines and PoR and call them Bram Stoker's Dracula: Revenge of Quincy and Bram Stoker's Dracula: Generations Defiant or something. Does it really make sense? Not really, they sure do play like Castlevania games and their settings are similar. But the do lack playable Belmonts from the get go and their plot seems to play off of Stoker's original novel more than established Castlevania plots of the time.
Oh! And we could make that Van Helsing movie an official CV movie if we were in control of the IP since it has a Castle, Dracula and hordes of baddies to defeat! We could say in some manual off to the side that the Helsing clan are like 3rd cousins to the Belmont and that's good enough, right? I mean, they're even referenced in the game, so there is precedence to tag a CV title to the beginning of it!
Damn it all I say, Konami has the final say on what constitutes as a CV title, much like how Paramount dictates what is a Star Trek title and Lucas for a Star Wars title. Do we necessarily like it? No, but we do accept it since it's their IP. I just don't get why LoS is constantly regarded as not a Castlevania title by some members of the community. Is it because we're racists and think only the Japanese master race could do it any justice (thanks for the compliments but we aren't that great)? Was it because it was linear like a traditional CV title? Was it because it had too much emphasis on combos like LoI? Was it because there were outdoor areas like in CVIII? Had a different soundtrack that introduced unique tracks while remixing familiar tracks like SotN (bad example I know, SotN OST > LoS OST erryday!)? Is it because the Combat Cross uses a chain whip like Richter's in RoB? Weird monsters? Questionable plot twist like in AoS where the main protag is really...?
I mean, I am absolutely dumbfounded by this. I mean, I enjoyed LoS, I feel it's a CV title, but I also don't think it's the best CV title. How hard is it to admit that it's a CV title? If Konami slapped Castlevania over a MGS like game where you have to sneak into an old castle as a single spec op operative and shoot silver/holy rounds into monsters and stuff, I'd buy it and accept it. It would be a little weird, but it is Konami's IP and I just don't see where we get the audacity to decry something as not Castlevania when it's clearly stated otherwise.
/soapbox
TLDR; Why some think LoS is not a CV game? Konami own CV and say what CV is and isn't, QED.
Back on topic: seriously why do some people think a Japanese made CV would be inherently superior to a western developed CV? I could make a CV game, use my Japanese passport street cred and I'm sure it would be worse than if I challenged oh...let's say Visceral to make a CV title to compare against.
/soapboxingagain
Seriously, why this dicotomy of games being Western/Japanese (Korea wants love too!)? Why can't they just be games that were good or bad like when we were kids playing our NES/SNES/Genesis or what have you? Did we care if Sonic was Japanese and Lemmings was British? I didn't! Did I care Street Fighter was Japanese and Mortal Kombat was American? Nope! I liked them both for what they offered. They were just good games. With this age of globalization I don't see why we make these barriers and sections of this/that based on origin. Yeah the flavors are a little different but it's all consumed the same way and we either enjoy them or don't.
Maybe I'm looking too far into it, but whenever I see/hear that any Japanese dev would do CV better than a Western dev all I hear is this:
http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/j-pop-talk-show/1362560 (http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/j-pop-talk-show/1362560)
:P Sorry for the long winded post, just something that's been bugging me since my return to the dungeon. *prepares for -1 onslaught*
When's it due out?
According to Amazon March 1st, 2013.
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Seriously, why this dicotomy of games being Western/Japanese (Korea wants love too!)? Why can't they just be games that were good or bad like when we were kids playing our NES/SNES/Genesis or what have you? Did we care if Sonic was Japanese and Lemmings was British? I didn't! Did I care Street Fighter was Japanese and Mortal Kombat was American? Nope! I liked them both for what they offered. They were just good games. With this age of globalization I don't see why we make these barriers and sections of this/that based on origin. Yeah the flavors are a little different but it's all consumed the same way and we either enjoy them or don't.
This is a very good point you have made. For me it doesn't matter what race of the planet makes what game. It's whether or not they succeed at it. And I personally feel that MS did not succeed at making Castlevania. When I was playing it there was the odd moment or two that it felt CV-ish (environmental-wise such as the castle chapters). But on the whole the core of what made CV, CV just wasn't there for me. I could not feel it. and I did give this game a chance to prove itself to me. Even when I took that 6 month hiatus from it and played it again, I was still let down. When the next two LoS sequel play through vids are up I'll check them out.
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@Sumac
So what exactly is stopping them from just returning to the old storyline after Lords? Cox said himself his storyline doesn't replace or overwrite the old one, so what's the problem? Also, a lot Castlevania games take place outside the main chronology. Making gaiden games was common practice in the last few years (and arguably before then as well). Castlevania is already used to having several continuities so, just like with comic books, it can very much be expected that they would do this.
And my old persona never got anywhere. I am still the same. ;)
Then I shall weep for you.
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I kind of have to agree with Sumac's last statement there, LoS is Castlevania because Konami said so. If we were in charge of the IP (intellectual property) we could delegate what is and isn't a Castlevania title.
I am completely agree with your statement.
For me it doesn't matter who was behind the game as long as it is a good game. If, dunno, developers from Madagaskar will be able to deliver a good Castlevania game, will I hate their game for being non-japanese? No. It will not even bug me for a second. Because it is a good Castlevania game and that's what ultimately matters.
I think, some people just like to put much emphasis on who developed the game, because CV never left hands of japanese developers, before, save for Ressurection that was never even released (and that is a shame on its own). And that lead to certain...pessimism regarding western developers ability to create a "good Castlevania game" whatever it is. Though, for these people I want to say only one word: "Judgement" as a prove, that not even all japanese devlopers could understand what Castlevania is. ;)
So what exactly is stopping them from just returning to the old storyline after Lords? Cox said himself his storyline doesn't replace or overwrite the old one, so what's the problem? Also, a lot Castlevania games take place outside the main chronology. Making gaiden games was common practice in the last few years (and arguably before then as well). Castlevania is already used to having several continuities so, just like with comic books, it can very much be expected that they would do this.
Castlevania is very faraway from comic books, when it comes to different timelines. Right now there are only two major timelines - old ones and LOS. Everything else is a one-off deal, that never was considered to become a real "alternate continuty".
I am not thinking that developers will not develop other timelines in the Castlevania, but I believe, that they will not revisit CV64 and COTM gaiden realms. What for? After all of this years it would be easier to pick LOS-route and create a completely new disconnected interpretation of the series, rather then create sequel to gaiden game in the oficial timeline.
As for revisiting old canon...I think it could be possible, but I believe it will be something rather minor (DL game) or "retconish" in nature, that will make fans upset, that developers even thought about this idea, in the first place.
My logic here is simple: for a big title set in the old canon you need a BIG story. Especially if you want your Castlevania game not to be worse than LOS in that regard (in terms of amount of content). So, what could be a BIG story for the major 3D game set in the old canon? Something involving Dracula, of course - it will uphold main tradition of the series and will be easy to market (like "Return ot the true old Castlevania. And we even have TRUE Dracula, of course!!). Aside from DCW, with such crowded timeline it means that developers will be forced to create a remake or a new game that will inevitably "retcon" something in the timeline.
Such approach would have worked if Castlevania series (old canon) had a permanent talented writer(s) and editor(s) attached to it, but right now developers could run unchecked in the old canon and do whatever their want to do, because there is no-one who can stop them and there is really no reason to limit themselves, when it comes to story. And "respect for the old fans" is not a top priority of the modern game developers.
Then I shall weep for you.
Why? We have a civil discussion.
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I'd welcome just a return to the classic trope and bypass the baggage and bullshit of "trying to make the series more deeper than it has to be". Return to the simple roots and build up from there. Call it a reboot or return to form. Base the game on "Belmont hero ventures off to Dracula's castle", add a thin story to keep players interested, but don't get too philosophical or preachy with it. Just say Dracula sent his minions to wipe out the village where the Belmonts live, and while the hero was away(out attending to something in the forest) he returns to find all the men of the village slaughtered(go crazy, they could all be impaled along the outskirts of town) and all the women and children taken to Dracula's castle. He takes the family heirloom(Vampire Killer whip) and heads off to rescue the captives and destroy Dracula. Simple as that. We can find out bits about our hero, Dracula and the captives throughout the game, but keep the majority of it simple and to the point. No overly tragic origin of Dracula. Hell, not origin. Make him what it was originally, Vlad the Impaler. No Mathias, no Gabriel, make him the REAL Vlad III. No BS origin story, not tragic past drenched in pain to give him some humane reason to why he becomes evil. Just make him a sciopathic bastard and make him do something like off the hero's mother infront of him.
So basically, stick to the simple formula, add some story(but not too much), steer clear from overly brooding, pretentious character backstories, and basically, do a modern take on what the originals were all about, "Badass hero storming a castle of monsters and going Monster Mash on their asses". Bring all the classics back(Frankenstein's Monster, the Mummies, Death, Medusa, maybe even Phantom Bat) and add new monsters to the mix.
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Out of CV64 and CVCOTM I could actually see COTM getting a sequel.
The reason why is that one thing Konami sees and remembers is money.
Fact is that Circle of the Moon was indeed the highest selling Castlevania game to date until Lords of Shadow came out.
That in itself will keep Circle of the Moon in the thoughts (and wallets) of Konami and I could totally see them outsourcing a sequel to it (hopefully to wayforward) just in the hopes of it capturing those sells again.
Also it would be a good way to give back to the older fans while still dumping cash into their pockets.
Win=Win situation really.
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Thanks! Now I finally understand the truth after all these year! ;D
Indiana Jones is Graham Jones father! He must have appeared to help seal Dracula's Castle in 1999., thats why no Belmont can use the Vampire Killer Whip, because Indiana is using it in their movies, but then in 1999 he appeared, give Julius the whip, they sealed Castlevania, Indiano took the whip back and in 2035 he gave it to Julius again. (we are in 2012 thats why they still do Indiana movies, but in 2035 they will stop because Indiana didnt have the whip :( )
Scanners (1981) Head Explosion Shot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY-03vYYAjA#)
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Scanners (1981) Head Explosion Shot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY-03vYYAjA#)
Hahaha sorry about that, I'll send you a new head okay? lol
Lets not forget that Cox made the clear distinction between Akumajo Dracula and Castlevania. . . :o
Thanks for remembering about that, it only shows how he is ignorant, since HoD and AoS are called Castlevania even in Japan. I know that its only he wanting to protect himself from some fans bashing him, but he could think before making these types of mistakes.
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...since HoD and AoS are called Castlevania even in Japan.
I think LoI was also simply called "Castlevania" with no fancy "X of Y" subtitles in Japan. My memory's kinda blurry at the moment though, so I might be mistaken.
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I think LoI was also simply called "Castlevania" with no fancy "X of Y" subtitles in Japan. My memory's kinda blurry at the moment though, so I might be mistaken.
...released as Castlevania (ã‚ャッスルヴァニア Kyassuruvania?) in Japan, Europe, and Australia...
Yes, you are right.
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Which brings us to the next topic:
Which was your favorite "Castlevania" font?
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flparchive.org%2FCastlevania%2FImages%2F2-castlevania_titlescreen.gif&hash=81937aaef965d01282c13f6946ba0949bb814df1)
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vizzed.com%2Fvideogames%2Fsnes%2Fscreenshot%2FSuper%2520Castlevania%2520IV-1.png&hash=9ec8f8561744f0a1a252f31f653daf83ea893936)
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gameguru.in%2Fimg%2Fcastlevania-01.jpg&hash=259d70026501fc5644f954d47df09458f6e56495)
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.emuparadise.me%2FGBA%2Ftitles%2F0997.png&hash=cb9e0850452f2ffb2dc908f4e78e7820aa7696d7)
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zeldainformer.com%2Fimages%2Fuploads%2Fnews%2FScreen_Shot_2012-07-03_at_4.01.51_PM.png&hash=7083e978d891100da81d6121c34542a4c3748ecb)
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I like more the classic, but I like the "PS2" ones too, in 3rd the LoS ones and in 4th the HoD and AoS ones. :)
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Castlevania is very faraway from comic books, when it comes to different timelines. Right now there are only two major timelines - old ones and LOS. Everything else is a one-off deal, that never was considered to become a real "alternate continuty".
I am not thinking that developers will not develop other timelines in the Castlevania, but I believe, that they will not revisit CV64 and COTM gaiden realms. What for? After all of this years it would be easier to pick LOS-route and create a completely new disconnected interpretation of the series, rather then create sequel to gaiden game in the oficial timeline.
I don't know about that. Putting Cornell in Judgment was a pretty decent sign that they didn't forget about his game. IGA says he has respect for what the developers from KCEK did during their brief reign over the series. A lot of KCEK staff still work on the series as well. I'm not saying that means it's guaranteed that they will make sequels or prequels to those games but it isn't totally out of the question either. I also disagree that setting up a new continuity would be easier. It's more like the other way around since it would mean less effort on the developer's part.
As for revisiting old canon...I think it could be possible, but I believe it will be something rather minor (DL game) or "retconish" in nature, that will make fans upset, that developers even thought about this idea, in the first place.
I expect them to fill up a few holes in the timeline (SotN sequel that explains why the Morris family got the whip, Quincy Morris game, and the 1999 game), then make a few filler games in the period between Lament and CV3 for a while, and then either move the story forward in a post-Aria/Dawn era or go to a completely different continuity, new or otherwise. And inbetween we'll probably see a lot of gaiden games, either one-shots or more elaborate like Lords.
My logic here is simple: for a big title set in the old canon you need a BIG story. Especially if you want your Castlevania game not to be worse than LOS in that regard (in terms of amount of content). So, what could be a BIG story for the major 3D game set in the old canon? Something involving Dracula, of course - it will uphold main tradition of the series and will be easy to market (like "Return ot the true old Castlevania. And we even have TRUE Dracula, of course!!). Aside from DCW, with such crowded timeline it means that developers will be forced to create a remake or a new game that will inevitably "retcon" something in the timeline.
Honestly, I think the "ambitious" storytelling of MercurySteam will be abandoned after they are done with the series. The developers can easily return to the more modest storytelling from before. And because of that, they could easily return to the old continuity and finish it.
Also, I'm not saying they should stick to the old timeline forever. If the times comes that they wish to retcon stuff they will just put all their games in a new major chronology. But I don't think that time has arrived yet, since the main storyline hasn't actually been prone to any retcons over the years. At most you could count the whole "Who defeated Dracula first?" business, but that happend over 20 years ago, when CVA and CV3 were released.
Such approach would have worked if Castlevania series (old canon) had a permanent talented writer(s) and editor(s) attached to it, but right now developers could run unchecked in the old canon and do whatever their want to do, because there is no-one who can stop them and there is really no reason to limit themselves, when it comes to story. And "respect for the old fans" is not a top priority of the modern game developers.
Why? We have a civil discussion.
IGA has been keeping track of storyline just fine. A lot of people act like the old timeline is a mess, but it's not. Most of the confusion is due to faulty translations anyway.
Why? We have a civil discussion.
It hadn't anything to do with our discussion. But never mind.
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I don't know about that. Putting Cornell in Judgment was a pretty decent sign that they didn't forget about his game. IGA says he has respect for what the developers from KCEK did during their brief reign over the series. A lot of KCEK staff still work on the series as well. I'm not saying that means it's guaranteed that they will make sequels or prequels to those games but it isn't totally out of the question either. I also disagree that setting up a new continuity would be easier. It's more like the other way around since it would mean less effort on the developer's part.
That's what I meant - developers want more money with less efforts. It's natural, though I am not fan of this.
As for Cornell in Judgement - I think its more like one time event. Besides, Judgement is very non-conventional game, when it comes to pretty much everything (designs, genre, music), so some random ideas were expected. And story itself allowed inclusion of characters from other worlds.
I expect them to fill up a few holes in the timeline (SotN sequel that explains why the Morris family got the whip, Quincy Morris game, and the 1999 game), then make a few filler games in the period between Lament and CV3 for a while, and then either move the story forward in a post-Aria/Dawn era or go to a completely different continuity, new or otherwise. And inbetween we'll probably see a lot of gaiden games, either one-shots or more elaborate like Lords.
I am afraid it will never happen. That's too grandiose. I think it could have been possible, if series have one writer atached to it (and even that's doubtable), but right now series will most likely go Silent Hill route and will change developers for each installment. So, continous storyline in this case is pretty much out of question.
Honestly, I think the "ambitious" storytelling of MercurySteam will be abandoned after they are done with the series. The developers can easily return to the more modest storytelling from before. And because of that, they could easily return to the old continuity and finish it.
Also, I'm not saying they should stick to the old timeline forever. If the times comes that they wish to retcon stuff they will just put all their games in a new major chronology. But I don't think that time has arrived yet, since the main storyline hasn't actually been prone to any retcons over the years. At most you could count the whole "Who defeated Dracula first?" business, but that happend over 20 years ago, when CVA and CV3 were released.
I believe, that after LOS's grand storytelling other developers could think that grand storytelling is neccessary component of success, since LOS was the best-selling Castlevania ever, at least if we believe Konami. And I don't think Konami will opt for anything less, than LOS-like profit.
To my knowledge there are a lot of "shady" moments in the old contunuty, that wasn't retcons per se, but was quite close to it (Belmonts origin, chaos deal, Reaper's allegiance, sudden Dracula reincarnation).
IGA has been keeping track of storyline just fine. A lot of people act like the old timeline is a mess, but it's not. Most of the confusion is due to faulty translations anyway.
I am very vehemently disagree with. IGA tried to systemize timeline, but made much more mess, than he had fixed, leaving a lot of things undisclosed without any good reason and making some really random additions, that were never called for. And faulty translation has nothing to do with it, IMO.
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Well faulty translations DID make Dracula out to be something he never was in the western games. And IGA did what he thought best at the time to merge Drac's origins with Castlevania 3. And props to IGA for yanking CV3 away from the Stoker/Coppola Dracula. That was a tad creative. No longer did Vlad Tepes become Dracula, but Dracula became Vlad Tepes. This also retroactively gives Grant more backstory without specifying -- the Danesti clan, the legitimate ruling family of Wallachia, was trying to take their country back from the clutches of Dracula.
What IGA didn't specify actually gave the series more color.
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The original font done up like in CV64 was cash, imo. My next favorites were the PS2 fonts, I liked the subtlety of the crescent moon styled 'c' enveloping the rest of the text. It's simple but elegant as well.
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Well faulty translations DID make Dracula out to be something he never was in the western games. And IGA did what he thought best at the time to merge Drac's origins with Castlevania 3. And props to IGA for yanking CV3 away from the Stoker/Coppola Dracula.
On contrary - his origin in LOI is retelling of Coppola's movie plot in broad strokes with added details.
What IGA didn't specify actually gave the series more color.
Its just gave it even more unneccessary holes, than before, making overall timeline shaky.
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That's what I meant - developers want more money with less efforts. It's natural, though I am not fan of this.
I think returning to the old continuity is the most obvious choice as far as effort is concerned.
As for Cornell in Judgement - I think its more like one time event. Besides, Judgement is very non-conventional game, when it comes to pretty much everything (designs, genre, music), so some random ideas were expected. And story itself allowed inclusion of characters from other worlds.
Perhaps, but who knows? I don't think the unusual choices regarding design, music etc. are relevant. I still stand by my point that it's a possibility we'll revisit the storylines of those games.
I am afraid it will never happen. That's too grandiose. I think it could have been possible, if series have one writer atached to it (and even that's doubtable), but right now series will most likely go Silent Hill route and will change developers for each installment. So, continous storyline in this case is pretty much out of question.
I believe, that after LOS's grand storytelling other developers could think that grand storytelling is neccessary component of success, since LOS was the best-selling Castlevania ever, at least if we believe Konami. And I don't think Konami will opt for anything less, than LOS-like profit.
I think we have to agree to disagree on these points. We'll see what will happen eventually.
To my knowledge there are a lot of "shady" moments in the old contunuty, that wasn't retcons per se, but was quite close to it (Belmonts origin, chaos deal, Reaper's allegiance, sudden Dracula reincarnation).
I am very vehemently disagree with. IGA tried to systemize timeline, but made much more mess, than he had fixed, leaving a lot of things undisclosed without any good reason and making some really random additions, that were never called for. And faulty translation has nothing to do with it, IMO.
Well, I'm not seeing these shady moments you're talking about, so I can't really comment on them. As for the timeline being a mess, I was just talking about hard continuity. If you think the timeline sucks because there are a few mysteries that have yet to resolved then I wouldn't try to change your mind about that. Honestly speaking, I don't think many people think it's a issue. Most fans are at the very least just indifferent about the old timeline.
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I wish this Castlevania comeback after LOS .Castlevania NEXT GEN - Teaser (XBOX 360, PS3) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3u3oFjjiFo#) .They need finish it (https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fadmintell.napco.com%2Fee%2Fimages%2Fuploads%2Fgamertell%2Fnew_castlevania_dracula.jpg&hash=0b2479d2c6176da1f90a82bed04181c83de0877c)
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I wish this Castlevania comeback after LOS .Castlevania NEXT GEN - Teaser (XBOX 360, PS3) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3u3oFjjiFo#) .They need finish it
If it insured that next gen Japanese game would be made, I would give up my ass virginity.
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Unless Konami has a history of uncancelling projects before even going into full production, that game will continue to be non existent unfortunately.
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If it insured that next gen Japanese game would be made, I would give up my ass virginity.
lol what
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oh my god, now everytime that I want a japanese Castlevania I will remember that someone will be in pain if that becomes true, my eyes!
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lol what
thats right. this heterosexual man would perform a deed which he has avoided so far by not breaking the law (butt sex)
hopefully no producers from Konami Japan try to contact me though
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Just to satiate my curiosity, why do you hold a Japanese developed Castlevania in such high regard that you would let someone taste your forbidden fruit?
Because at this point I'm thinking of writing Kojima Productions a lengthy email to make a tactical sneaking Castlevania game and use you as a bartering token to fund the project. ;D
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Just to satiate my curiosity, why do you hold a Japanese developed Castlevania in such high regard that you would let someone taste your forbidden fruit?
too lazy to go into all the reasons so am I just going to say I prefer the overall art direction and atmosphere of the Japanese games.
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Do-gooder comes home to dead wife/parent/child/dog. Do-gooder curses his existence and deity lording over his existence. Do-gooder becomes cursed/malicious/super-powerful.
Coppola didn't start that cliche and IGA just ran with it like Coppola. Coppola said Vlad Tepes became a vampire. IGA said Dracula had been a vampire for four centuries before becoming Vlad Tepes. Just because both Vlads use the same cliche backstory doesn't mean IGA ripped Coppola's story page.
And the plot holes/timeline is just fine. Westerners just typically lack the ability to cope with loose ends. They see a hole in the wall, they squirt toothpaste into it so their minds can be at ease knowing the wall is complete once again.
In CV3, Grant was a nobody. After LoI, he's been retconned into a somebody in the Japanese line. In the Western version of CV3, he was a pirate. Why the fuck would a pirate be trying to defeat Dracula? It never even crossed my mind for even a millisecond that the ghost ship belonged to Grant. It was always obvious to me that it belonged to Dracula himself and was a clear homage to pre-Coppola Dracula.
The one thing I hate about IGAvanias though is as far as stories/plots go, every game of his has more cliched tropes than Airplane! or Princess Bride. But I see that as being IGA Brand Toothpaste, patching up plot holes just as cleanly as Colgate patched up holes in my wall.
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And the plot holes/timeline is just fine. Westerners just typically lack the ability to cope with loose ends. They see a hole in the wall, they squirt toothpaste into it so their minds can be at ease knowing the wall is complete once again.
I actually agree with this. Was on a Final Fantasy forum when the question was brought up whether or not a love story was obligatory to make the whole a great story. One person said something to the extent of there always has to be a love story(by default) because to them, a main hero and a main heroine NOT getting together through some form of romance would break up the balance, and that a lot of people like sappy love stories, even horrible ones, because seeing two people get together helps them feel that there's still some balance in the world. Something stupid like that(this person was basically going on and on about how it eats away at them if this kinda "alignment" isn't settled, almost in an OCD type of way). I basically said only if love story is handled well, perhaps, but it shouldn't be included "just for the sake of sakes". You can expand character development many different ways if you(the writer) is smart enough. Though, considering a lot of bad love stories are a dime a dozen, I'm willing to bet not many are.
I've said this before, I'm content with the old canon. I don't mind there being plot holes. Or, maybe, I just don't dwell on little stuff like that. It's really minute of a problem if you're giving yourself worry wrinkles over. Other than that, a few plot holes don't hurt anybody other than the George Costanzas of life. Hell, plot holes always strike up good fan theories and ideas. That type of conversation is well worth it's weight in gold(and is fun to, as long as it's an friendly exchange of theories that aren't interupted by the logic police, AKA the "rain on everybody's parade" people).
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Why do people like Wayforward? Look at their recent games, good looking sure, mediocre reviews all the way.
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I think returning to the old continuity is the most obvious choice as far as effort is concerned.
With all respect, I disagree with this opinion.
Perhaps, but who knows? I don't think the unusual choices regarding design, music etc. are relevant.
I think it's all relevant. Judgement was an experiment and developers went all out with it, striving from old conventions as much as possible, including blending line between different timelines, which wouldn't be possible in regular CV game.
Well, I'm not seeing these shady moments you're talking about, so I can't really comment on them. As for the timeline being a mess, I was just talking about hard continuity. If you think the timeline sucks because there are a few mysteries that have yet to resolved then I wouldn't try to change your mind about that. Honestly speaking, I don't think many people think it's a issue. Most fans are at the very least just indifferent about the old timeline.
I like to have tidy and clear timeline, in which almost every important detail, that have connection to the main plot, is clear. CV old canon have too much holes in it and since storyline is one of the main aspects in any game series to me (especially in CV, where series lately made a LOT of emphasis on its story), this makes CV old timeline rather messy and sad to me. I am not "most fans" and its an issue to me. :)
Coppola didn't start that cliche and IGA just ran with it like Coppola. Coppola said Vlad Tepes became a vampire. IGA said Dracula had been a vampire for four centuries before becoming Vlad Tepes. Just because both Vlads use the same cliche backstory doesn't mean IGA ripped Coppola's story page.
Similar origins of the same character in different incarnations, are too much of the coincidence. And I don't believe in coincidences like that.
And the plot holes/timeline is just fine. Westerners just typically lack the ability to cope with loose ends. They see a hole in the wall, they squirt toothpaste into it so their minds can be at ease knowing the wall is complete once again.
What we have in old canon is not "loose ends".
Those are annoying holes, that doesn't take any effort to be cleared in a one single game. They are results of the unthought writing.
I am personally OK, when there are some things left unsaid, like in "The Big O" for example, that I really liked. I am not OK with the bad writing and very important things being left out without any single good reason.
I don't think "love story" is mandatory to make a good plot.
Hell, plot holes always strike up good fan theories and ideas. That type of conversation is well worth it's weight in gold(and is fun to, as long as it's an friendly exchange of theories that aren't interupted by the logic police, AKA the "rain on everybody's parade" people).
Loose ends could be discussed, but I don't see point to discuss things that should have a definite answer, that writers never cared to provide. It's not thought provoking, just annoying and unneccesary.
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Why do people like Wayforward? Look at their recent games, good looking sure, mediocre reviews all the way.
You didn't, by any chance, read the IGN review of Double Dragon Neon? :)
Of course, I don't take many reviews into consideration that much. You don't know who's being truthful and who's being paid off. There's been any times I've read good reviews about bad games, so I just leave it up to my own self to determine a game's worth in my own eyes.
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Why the fuck would a pirate be trying to defeat Dracula?
Do you not know about a pirate's honor? They are thieves and killers of the high seas but they do have their own sense of honor. And If someone or someones ever messed with a pirate and his group, they would in fact exact revenge. This is historical fact. If we are to consider Grant as a pirate then killing Dracula because he butchered his whole family would be justified. If someone came along and horribly massacred someone you loved would you not feel inclined to pursue some sort of justice? I know I would.
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Dracula wasn't a butcher, he was a demon summoner. The demons did all the butchering.
And for that matter, has anyone ever actually seen Dracula kill someone? Dude's always just chilling in his castle, then along comes some sadistic trespasser who kills Dracula's pet and then kills Dracula while he's sitting in his big, cushy chair. I think the Belmonts are just anarchists. Or they're the 99% out to kill the 1%.
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With all respect, I disagree with this opinion.
If next Castlevania continue LOS's timeline ,I wont step into the castle forever
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With all respect, I disagree with this opinion.
Please elaborate.
I think it's all relevant. Judgement was an experiment and developers went all out with it, striving from old conventions as much as possible, including blending line between different timelines, which wouldn't be possible in regular CV game.
I'm sure the game was an experiment, but if it had been successful (which unfortunately wasn't the case) it wouldn't have been a one-time thing like you said in your pevious post. It's not like Cornell's appearance automatically means they will make another game in his "world", but I think it opens up possibilities. But whatever.
I like to have tidy and clear timeline, in which almost every important detail, that have connection to the main plot, is clear. CV old canon have too much holes in it and since storyline is one of the main aspects in any game series to me (especially in CV, where series lately made a LOT of emphasis on its story), this makes CV old timeline rather messy and sad to me. I am not "most fans" and its an issue to me. :)
The only real hole is why the Morris family got the whip. I can't really comment on the rest.
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Why do people like Wayforward? Look at their recent games, good looking sure, mediocre reviews all the way.
Who fucking cares about reviews? God Hand got 3.5 on IGN. Imagine Babiez got 7.5
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Who fucking cares about reviews? God Hand got 3.5 on IGN. Imagine Babiez got 7.5
I care about reviews. Obviously not about IGN reviews, but game critics response is very important. It's not the score, it's the text behind it.
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I care about reviews. Obviously not about IGN reviews, but game critics response is very important. It's not the score, it's the text behind it.
Sorry but I care what I myself like not what reviewers like.
Wayforward's games are liked by the fans, it doesn't matter what those reviewers say if you ask me.
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I think reviews are good to take with a grain of salt. Not all reviewers review the same, and some may not have the same tastes like you. A personal example is the first Assassin's Creed, it got mediocre reviews to some just blasting it, but Penny Arcade loved it so I played through it, and found I loved it too (enough to collect all those damn flags too, for no reason).
So I think, beyond just "Reviewers suck, play everything yourself and make your own opinion" (this costs money and can result in poor investments of your hard earned cash) and "Well reviewers said this/that and I'm going by that" (which is safe since games with high review scores are usually a safe bet and will result in a decent return in your monetary investment), what it ultimately boils down to is what specific reviewers reflect your own opinions on what's enjoyable and what isn't. For me, I find Game Trailers and Penny Arcade to be good sign posts since they usually reflect my opinion on what I think of a game after playing it. But that may not be right for you, maybe IGN or Eurogamer reflects your opinion better! Meta-scores are interesting to go by too.
Take LoI for instance, overall a 79%. Not too bad! http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-2/castlevania-lament-of-innocence (http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-2/castlevania-lament-of-innocence)
So, who in that list reflects your opinion on the title? I think the game is gorgeous with a great soundtrack, but I find combat a bit tedious (more so than LoS, but that's personal opinion, not an attack against anyone who felt differently, fyi) and was disappointed that the plot felt short in certain aspects. I think something along 75~80 range matches my feelings for the game. Oh look! Official Playstation Magazine (OPM, lol) matches some of my sentiment, they may be a good sign post for me to judge other games by.
See? Not too difficult to go through the spread and see how they rate other games you've played and see if your opinions match, etc. I think people are too quick to dismiss professional reviews as "no taste, horrible judgement, paid off by EA" and etc. There are people out these who legitimately review games so consumers can get a better idea of what they're purchasing before investing 60+ dollars (to some that's 12 hours of work!) into something they won't enjoy. Naturally as CV fans we tend to by every title regardless if we will enjoy them or not, because we're fans and we want Konami to know that fans for the series still exist and they need to keep making CV games!
So...I guess tl;dr stop being polar opposites, find middle ground and figure out what works for you and don't judge others negatively if what works for them doesn't work for you. Also cite sources, you look more credible that way. ;D
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Please elaborate.
I already said it - after LOS, developers could think that it will be easier to create their own take on the series, instead of puting themselves through the torture of understanding and caring about the old timline. It's just simplier to create a new game about Vampire Killer going to kill Dracula without ties to anything - quick money, more or less.
I'm sure the game was an experiment, but if it had been successful (which unfortunately wasn't the case) it wouldn't have been a one-time thing like you said in your pevious post. It's not like Cornell's appearance automatically means they will make another game in his "world", but I think it opens up possibilities. But whatever.
Well, I dislike to base my assumptions on the probability of something.
We simply can't assume how Judgement 2 could be. Maybe it could have become closer to the "traditional" outings and leave people from other timelines out of the game...Too much variables.
The only real hole is why the Morris family got the whip. I can't really comment on the rest.
There are a lot of minor holes. And not so minor too. General genealogy of the Belmonts. Who was descendant of the Leon Belmont? Is Juste child or grandchild of Simon? Where Village of Belmonts in OOE came from? What ultimately have happened to Richter and Maria? Galamoth origin and purpose in the story? Reaper's allegiance, real goals, origin and ties to the Time Travellers? Time Travellers - who they are and why Castlevania timeline needs them?
That's like the whole bunch of questions and answering them could have made overall timeline much much better.
Each unexplained thing have its expriration date, after which its become redundant and annoying. You can tease people only for so long.
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Is Juste child or grandchild of Simon?
IIRC HoD explains that he is Simon's grandchild, atleast I remember he talking about Simon as a grandfather.
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IIRC HoD explains that he is Simon's grandchild, atleast I remember he talking about Simon as a grandfather.
Looked into CV Wikia - it's state that Juste is indeed Simon's Grandson.
I remember some debates over this issue on another Castlevania forum. I don't recall Juste mentioning it in HOD, though my memories of this game is quite unclear.
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I'm playing through HoD atm. I'll keep an eye out for any smoking guns about that and see if I can't snag a screen-shot for ya :)
So far, the opening intro strongly implies Juste would HAVE to be a grandson, judging on Simon's age and Juste's age between the 50 years. I'll keep this updated, especially if any dialogue adds to this.
EDIT: Found a smoking gun
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too lazy to go into all the reasons so am I just going to say I prefer the overall art direction and atmosphere of the Japanese games.
I only got -2 points for that! Perhaps I was being too subtle. Lords of Shadows fans masturbate to artwork by Aliens creature designer H. R. Giger. There, that should score me a few negative points
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I already said it - after LOS, developers could think that it will be easier to create their own take on the series, instead of puting themselves through the torture of understanding and caring about the old timline. It's just simplier to create a new game about Vampire Killer going to kill Dracula without ties to anything - quick money, more or less.
I think you're just exaggerating. You can get a decent grasp on the timeline in a matter of minutes. What you're saying is also assuming the new developers wouldn't have basic knowledge about past storylines (which I doubt) and that they are not people who already worked on the series before.
Well, I dislike to base my assumptions on the probability of something.
We simply can't assume how Judgement 2 could be. Maybe it could have become closer to the "traditional" outings and leave people from other timelines out of the game...Too much variables.
I think it wouldn't have mattered. The important part is that by including Cornell into Judgment, they are still acknowledging the continuity that he is from. I'm just trying to say the possibility to return to that continuity still exists (and arguably not as low as you might think), as opposed to the probability being zero.
There are a lot of minor holes. And not so minor too.
Looking at the points you brought up, I would classify them as follows:
Not really relevant:
General genealogy of the Belmonts. / Who was descendant of the Leon Belmont?
Reaper's allegiance, real goals, origin and ties to the Time Travellers?
Death's allegiance is obviously Dracula. All you need to know about him is that he is a deity that consumes souls. Serving Dracula and collecting souls are pretty much his only goals, so that's a question that doesn't need answering. He doesn't have any real ties to time travels either, except that Saint Germain meddled with his plans once.
Already Answered:
Is Juste child or grandchild of Simon?
As some people in this thread already clarified, Juste is Simon's grandson.
Galamoth origin and purpose in the story?
As mentioned in Symphony of the Night, Galamoth's purpose is to take control over Dracula's minions and take his place as the big bad. As for his origin, I wouldn't consider that to be too imporant.
Where Village of Belmonts in OOE came from?
This is actually answered in the game. Nikolai built the foundation of the village and the other villagers where drawn there by a mysterious force, most likely a divine one.
Relevant:
What ultimately have happened to Richter and Maria?
Time Travellers - who they are and why Castlevania timeline needs them?
The first point has been an issue since 2006 (because of PoR) and the second since 2005. The series got rebooted with LoS in 2009. If it hadn't been rebooted, you would probably have an answer to the first issue by now since the canceled Alucard game would have answered it without a doubt.
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So far, the opening intro strongly implies Juste would HAVE to be a grandson, judging on Simon's age and Juste's age between the 50 years. I'll keep this updated, especially if any dialogue adds to this.
Thanks, I'll be looking forward to it.
Though, so far, given general vagueness of the Belmont genealogy, I wouldn't keep intro statement as definitive prove of Juste realitions with Simon.
I think you're just exaggerating. You can get a decent grasp on the timeline in a matter of minutes. What you're saying is also assuming the new developers wouldn't have basic knowledge about past storylines (which I doubt) and that they are not people who already worked on the series before.
Basic, yes. But we assume, if developers decide to return to the old timeline, they create game that will be built in continuty on deeper level, that require beyond basic level of knowledge.
If they say "we create Castlevania in the old timeline", and this game will be about some random Joe Smith hunting generic Dracula-clone, it will be technically part of the old timeline, but of course, with such approach it could have been a standalone game as well.
If they want to create a game that really take place in the old timeline, then they need to have a far more knowledge, than just dates and names of the characters. I assume, as soon as they see the whole picture of the old timeline, they'll run away and try to create some Castlevania without ties to it. It's just will be too hard to create a new game in OT without messing up anything or angering fans.
General genealogy of the Belmonts. / Who was descendant of the Leon Belmont?
I am disagree with that.
How genealogy of the Belmonts is irrelevant to the series? I'd say on contrary, its one of the most important things. I dare say, its even more important than Time Travellers and Galamoth. I would really like to know, who is who in the Belmonts family and how it ties to the Belnades, Lecarde and Moris families. It's really something that should have been answered long time ago, I believe. At least partially. Those statements like" Richter lived sometime after Juste" is not something that I can call "clarification".
Death's allegiance is obviously Dracula. All you need to know about him is that he is a deity that consumes souls. Serving Dracula and collecting souls are pretty much his only goals, so that's a question that doesn't need answering. He doesn't have any real ties to time travels either, except that Saint Germain meddled with his plans once.
Judgement hinted that Reaper serving Dracula not out of simple loyalty. As for him being deity, well, its still needs clarification - is he THAT Reaper, or just physical incarnation of his or some "imitator"? And why such being would be bound to serve Dracula? There is quite a lot about Reaper that wasn't answered yet, you see...
As some people in this thread already clarified, Juste is Simon's grandson.
So far the prove is rather shaky, I dare say.
As mentioned in Symphony of the Night, Galamoth's purpose is to take control over Dracula's minions and take his place as the big bad. As for his origin, I wouldn't consider that to be too imporant.
Given that he is basically most powerfull villain right next to Dracula and was elevated in Judgement to the main threat status, I'd say he is rather important and interesting character, that deserved far more attention. And he and Dracula, have a lot of potential for interesting rivalry.
This is actually answered in the game. Nikolai built the foundation of the village and the other villagers where drawn there by a mysterious force, most likely a divine one.
I am sorry, but that an excuse for an exlanation.
The first point has been an issue since 2006 (because of PoR) and the second since 2005. The series got rebooted with LoS in 2009. If it hadn't been rebooted, you would probably have an answer to the first issue by now since the canceled Alucard game would have answered it without a doubt.
They could answer the first thing twice - in OOE, that was set somewhere between "Dracula" and ROB and in Judgement. I am agree that most likely it would have been answered in the NGCV, and radiodrama was supposed to be a prologue to it. However, after they plans for NGCV failed, they could give at least a brief hint to what had happened. I higly doubt that "japanese 3D Alucard'vania" will ever materialise, so I don't think its neccessary to keep this plotpoint a secret.
As for Time Travellers - I am of opinion, if you introduce some new and highly random element into the story, then it should have some resolution as soon as possible.
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Thanks, I'll be looking forward to it.
Though, so far, given general vagueness of the Belmont genealogy, I wouldn't keep intro statement as definitive prove of Juste realitions with Simon.
From HoD Script from Castlevania Crypt site:8. Juste and Maxim in the Sky Walkway
Maxim: Juste! Have you found Lydie?
Juste: You...you're Maxim, aren't you?
Maxim: Hey! What do you mean by that!
Juste: Uh, nothing. Forget it. So tell me, how did you fare?
Maxim: I have found nothing yet. But my memory is slowly coming back to me.
Juste: Really? So Lydie is somewhere in this castle after all?
Maxim: Yes, I'm sure of that now. And I know that I have also been here before...and there is something I think you should know...
Juste: Go ahead, you can tell me anything.
Maxim: The day you inherited the title of Vampire Hunter...I felt as if a wall had been erected between us...and for that reason, I set out on my expedition. I wanted to be better than you and relieve you of your fate.
Juste: ...
Maxim: Long ago, you told me of Dracula's remains. Do you remember that?
Juste: Yes, I remember. The story of how my grandfather, Simon, gathered Dracula's remains and destroyed them to undo his curse.
.........
http://www.castlevaniacrypt.com/games/hod/script.htm (http://www.castlevaniacrypt.com/games/hod/script.htm)
Seriously, it only took a few seconds to find that, I understand that you disagree with some opinions and can even have doubts, but it seems that you are closing totally your mind like if we need to show proofs or something like that.
Sorry if that sounds as a disrespect, dont take it bad please.
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everyone is hoping and waiting ... even her : http://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss272/dengojin/yesplease.jpg (http://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss272/dengojin/yesplease.jpg)
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You didn't, by any chance, read the IGN review of Double Dragon Neon? :)
Yeah, that one sounded like the guy had a bone to pick with beat-em-ups in general.
Although Neon wasn't Double Dragon at all to me, it was still pretty damn fun.
Back on topic, I'd like to see some Akumajo Dracula again someday, old timeline or not. In fact, if they started from scratch, but stayed close to the Classicvania look and feel, I wouldn't complain.
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everyone is hoping and waiting ... even her : http://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss272/dengojin/yesplease.jpg (http://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss272/dengojin/yesplease.jpg)
Michiru Yamane still has interest for the series. Substantial post!
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Juste: Yes, I remember. The story of how my grandfather, Simon, gathered Dracula's remains and destroyed them to undo his curse.
Seriously, it only took a few seconds to find that, I understand that you disagree with some opinions and can even have doubts, but it seems that you are closing totally your mind like if we need to show proofs or something like that.
OK, than grandson he is.
I am not closing my mind, though. HOD never was one of my favorite games in the series, so I didn't remember it well. I thought, that Juste never mentioned his relation to Simon in that game. It's unusual, to say the least.
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Basic, yes. But we assume, if developers decide to return to the old timeline, they create game that will be built in continuty on deeper level, that require beyond basic level of knowledge.
If they say "we create Castlevania in the old timeline", and this game will be about some random Joe Smith hunting generic Dracula-clone, it will be technically part of the old timeline, but of course, with such approach it could have been a standalone game as well.
If they want to create a game that really take place in the old timeline, then they need to have a far more knowledge, than just dates and names of the characters. I assume, as soon as they see the whole picture of the old timeline, they'll run away and try to create some Castlevania without ties to it. It's just will be too hard to create a new game in OT without messing up anything or angering fans.
I don't understand what the problem is. Why would anybody "run away" after seeing "the whole picture" of the timeline? The storyline can effectively be summarized in a few brief paragraphs. Case in point: http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/cv-por/game-castlevaniapor.htm (http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/cv-por/game-castlevaniapor.htm)
I am disagree with that.
How genealogy of the Belmonts is irrelevant to the series? I'd say on contrary, its one of the most important things. I dare say, its even more important than Time Travellers and Galamoth. I would really like to know, who is who in the Belmonts family and how it ties to the Belnades, Lecarde and Moris families. It's really something that should have been answered long time ago, I believe. At least partially. Those statements like" Richter lived sometime after Juste" is not something that I can call "clarification".
I would argue the only thing you need to know that each Belmont is a descendant of the other. But if you simply must have a clear answer, there is a family tree in a LoI guide that answers some of your questions. The Belnades family branch and the Morris family branch came into existence sometime after Trevor and Sypha married but before Christopher was born. So Trevor and Sypha had at least two children, one who could continue the Belmont family and one that continued the Belnades family. It's possible they had a third child, who could continue the Morris family, but it's also possible the Morris branch came into existence at a later point.
I also know that Christopher is Simon's great-grandfather (source is the Adventure Rebirth website). I don't know how the Lecarde and Renard families, and the Wygol villagers relate to the Belmont bloodline.
Judgement hinted that Reaper serving Dracula not out of simple loyalty. As for him being deity, well, its still needs clarification - is he THAT Reaper, or just physical incarnation of his or some "imitator"? And why such being would be bound to serve Dracula? There is quite a lot about Reaper that wasn't answered yet, you see...
Yes, Judgment hints at there being something going on behind the scenes. It was first brough up in that game, though. They are probably intending to reveal what that is for a future game. Possible the 1999 game or something set after Aria of Sorrow.
As for what Death actually is, in Judgment he says he is a god. The game also seems to hint there are more beings like him because he is obviously not the same being as the Time Reaper. I know that sometimes in Japanese stories, there can be more than one Death. The name "Death" seems to suggest there is only one since it's a name, but in Japanese they use the word "Shinigami", which is more like a label. It means "God of Death".
Given that he is basically most powerfull villain right next to Dracula and was elevated in Judgement to the main threat status, I'd say he is rather important and interesting character, that deserved far more attention. And he and Dracula, have a lot of potential for interesting rivalry.
The story of Judgment reintroduced him as an actual character to the series instead of just being a random boss. They could have had him make an appearance in the game and elaborate on him more, but it wasn't neccessary. They just revealed just enough about him to make one what to know more about him, and opening up the possibility of fleshing out his story in a future game.
I am sorry, but that an excuse for an exlanation.
Well, judging by the way you phrased your question, I gave a perfectly legimate answer. But I guess you also want to know why all the Belmonts came to live in one village and forget about their heritage? Without a doubt, it has something to do with why the Belmonts lost the whip.
They could answer the first thing twice - in OOE, that was set somewhere between "Dracula" and ROB and in Judgement. I am agree that most likely it would have been answered in the NGCV, and radiodrama was supposed to be a prologue to it. However, after they plans for NGCV failed, they could give at least a brief hint to what had happened. I higly doubt that "japanese 3D Alucard'vania" will ever materialise, so I don't think its neccessary to keep this plotpoint a secret.
They could have explained a lot in OoE, but they didn't. They only explained what happend to the Belmonts in general. I think they didn't explain what happend to Richter because they already got the reveal planned for the canceled Alucard game. And Judgment was not really meant to answer any questions about the storyline.
And yes, they could have told us what happend after the Alucard game got canceled. But maybe the reason they didn't it because they want to return to the old storyline after LoS.
As for Time Travellers - I am of opinion, if you introduce some new and highly random element into the story, then it should have some resolution as soon as possible.
Sometimes keeping secrets is a good way to keep the audience interested in the story. It's a commonly used trope. Of course you shouldn't introduce secrets for the sake of having secrets and never answers them (which also happens from time to time) but I doubt that is the case here.
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Hey, I have a idea! Maybe this thing about the Belmonts dont using the whip after Richter brainwashed experience (even if in the Radio Drama he uses the whip) doesnt have anything to do with Richter, Im thinking that the problem is that the Belmonts started to getting obssesed with the task of killing Dracula.
After all, Shaft brainwashed him, but that must be possible because of Richter's inner regrets, so these people in Wygol doesnt remember anything simple because no one never told them about the past, its like a rest time for Belmont's descendants so the same thing doesnt happens again.
Thats only one thing that I thought about right now.
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I hope konami pick the series back up after LOS, but if it "has to be" a western company, then I want it to be Wayforward. I played Double Dragon Neon and I love it (especially when Skullmageddon says "Have at you" at the beginning of the first boss fight).
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kanomi
konami. adorable :)
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konami. adorable :)
Nice to see that the...
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg43%2F2622%2Fspellingpolice.jpg&hash=68f4d6d790954af649377b7336e57329a92a47b3) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/43/spellingpolice.jpg/)
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ah man. another october without a Japanese Castlevania to look forward to. the last game in the series I enjoyed was order of ecllesia which was about 4 years ago. which action adventure games has everyone been playing to get by?
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Nice to see that the...
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg43%2F2622%2Fspellingpolice.jpg&hash=68f4d6d790954af649377b7336e57329a92a47b3) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/43/spellingpolice.jpg/)
oh no! I'm melting!
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konami. adorable :)
oops. thanks.
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I hope konami pick the series back up after LOS
Konami is a publisher, not a development studio (much like Nintendo). That would be like saying "I hope Nintendo picks the series back up after Metroid: Other M!"
Konami's had full reign of the series (that's why they sent Kojima to MS for consultation), so there really isn't anything to "pick up" so to speak.
game in the series I enjoyed was order of ecllesia which was about 4 years ago. which action adventure games has everyone been playing to get by?
I've been playing Castlevania, Lords of Shadows and Order of Ecclesia lately. I like going back and playing games I really enjoyed, especially if nothing new in the market provides the gaming satisfaction I'm looking for. Though with Ecclesia it's more of finally getting around to beating it. I got bored part way through (I don't remember why) and stopped.
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Though with Ecclesia it's more of finally getting around to beating it. I got bored part way through (I don't remember why) and stopped.
the level design does get plain and repetitious at times. I read in a 1up article recently that IGA was barely given any money to produce some of the Castlevania titles he worked on. poor jappo
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the level design does get plain and repetitious at times. I read in a 1up article recently that IGA was barely given any money to produce some of the Castlevania titles he worked on. poor jappo
I would prefer if you could refrain from using racially derogatory terms in the future, thank you.
I've read online (and around here) that Iga was grossly underfunded for making the CV titles (at least compared to his SotN budget or budget for other Konami games), which is why we see a lot of recycled sprites from previous CV titles, and partly why I think Ayami Kojima and Michiru Yamane stopped working on CV titles; Iga just couldn't afford them anymore. I have to admit, I wish the artist that worked of OoE had also worked on AoS and PoR, because they have beautiful work and excellent design sense.
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I don't understand what the problem is. Why would anybody "run away" after seeing "the whole picture" of the timeline? The storyline can effectively be summarized in a few brief paragraphs. Case in point: http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/cv-por/game-castlevaniapor.htm (http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/cv-por/game-castlevaniapor.htm)
Once again, I believe, if developers really would like to create a fullfleshed entry into the Old Canon, they must have much more intimate knowledge of the story, rather than just few paragraphs.
With such approach they can create something, that will mess up the timeline and anger fans.
I would argue the only thing you need to know that each Belmont is a descendant of the other. But if you simply must have a clear answer, there is a family tree in a LoI guide that answers some of your questions. The Belnades family branch and the Morris family branch came into existence sometime after Trevor and Sypha married but before Christopher was born. So Trevor and Sypha had at least two children, one who could continue the Belmont family and one that continued the Belnades family. It's possible they had a third child, who could continue the Morris family, but it's also possible the Morris branch came into existence at a later point.
Its still quite vague for me.
I don't want to have a "complete guide for Belmonts family genealogy, that include every single relative", but just main family.
I also know that Christopher is Simon's great-grandfather (source is the Adventure Rebirth website).
Thank you, I didn't know about that. :)
Yes, Judgment hints at there being something going on behind the scenes. It was first brough up in that game, though. They are probably intending to reveal what that is for a future game. Possible the 1999 game or something set after Aria of Sorrow.
If there will be next game in the old canon.
I am agree with the rest, though, I think, that for the first time "bigger picture" was hinted at COD with the introduction of Time Travellers.
As for Reaper - maybe he is like japanese god of death, still it needs some clarification.
But I guess you also want to know why all the Belmonts came to live in one village and forget about their heritage? Without a doubt, it has something to do with why the Belmonts lost the whip.
Sorry, if I formulated my question a bit unclear. I meant exactly what you said. And the answer for this is still wasn't provided.
Sometimes keeping secrets is a good way to keep the audience interested in the story. It's a commonly used trope. Of course you shouldn't introduce secrets for the sake of having secrets and never answers them (which also happens from time to time) but I doubt that is the case here.
The thing, it could work with something that have regular / scheduled installments, like TV-series, comic books, movies, e.t.c.
With the Castlevania the problem is that later games jumped all over the place. Or rather "all over the time". One game set up something like could have been an interesting story or introduced new elements, that could have been elaborated, but the very next game jumped at another point in timeline and didn't answer anything.
Basically, it's like, if writer decided to publish his book one chapter per day. But instead publishing chapters in order, he publishing them in completely random sequence. And there is no guarantee that the next chapter will answer questions or will be published at all.
That's why I am on board with the LOS storytelling - its maybe not very unique, but at least they put effort to tell a coherent story, not random puzzle pieces.
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I would prefer if you could refrain from using racially derogatory terms in the future, thank you.
I have to admit, I wish the artist that worked of OoE had also worked on AoS and PoR, because they have beautiful work and excellent design sense.
I'll respect your request but for the record, I luuuv Japanese peoples
OoE gave me a strong SotN vibe so it is my favorite handheld CV. The artwork in PoR is less moody but it still brought up good memories of Rondo of Blood for me.
its in Japanese but I found the webpage for the artist who worked on OoE: http://www.backfire.jp/ (http://www.backfire.jp/)
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The Belnades family branch and the Morris family branch came into existence sometime after Trevor and Sypha married but before Christopher was born. So Trevor and Sypha had at least two children, one who could continue the Belmont family and one that continued the Belnades family. It's possible they had a third child, who could continue the Morris family, but it's also possible the Morris branch came into existence at a later point.
I guess whoever wrote that family tree (either IGA or someone else) wasn't quite thinking about it. If the Belnades clan is still continuing after Sypha then the only real way for that to happen is if Sypha has relatives of her own, say a Brother or a Cousin. They can't come from the Belmont clan and Sypha would have been absorbed into the Belmont clan herself. Her children would have taken the name Belmont and not Belnades. If Sypha did have a girl child in order for them to explain the continuation of the Belnades name then she would have to marry back into the Belnades family. And that would be incestual. The Morris family is easy to connect the dots; A woman Belmont marries into the Morris clan thus securing her descendants with the powers of the Belmont blood. Easy. I've seen earlier attempts at a family tree which tried to explain the all the families in the CV series (every single character) and all I could see from it was an incest fest. So that particular person didn't know how to do a family tree either. I think maybe the problem is that they are thinking too much about the origins of the supernatural powers that are inherent in all the families rather then being realistic about it and going about making the tree from a biological standpoint which is far more important. Then after the tree has been properly written out THEN apply the supernatural powers explanation.
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I guess whoever wrote that family tree (either IGA or someone else) wasn't quite thinking about it. If the Belnades clan is still continuing after Sypha then the only real way for that to happen is if Sypha has relatives of her own, say a Brother or a Cousin. They can't come from the Belmont clan and Sypha would have been absorbed into the Belmont clan herself. Her children would have taken the name Belmont and not Belnades. If Sypha did have a girl child in order for them to explain the continuation of the Belnades name then she would have to marry back into the Belnades family. And that would be incestual. The Morris family is easy to connect the dots; A woman Belmont marries into the Morris clan thus securing her descendants with the powers of the Belmont blood. Easy. I've seen earlier attempts at a family tree which tried to explain the all the families in the CV series (every single character) and all I could see from it was an incest fest. So that particular person didn't know how to do a family tree either. I think maybe the problem is that they are thinking too much about the origins of the supernatural powers that are inherent in all the families rather then being realistic about it and going about making the tree from a biological standpoint which is far more important. Then after the tree has been properly written out THEN apply the supernatural powers explanation.
Marrying cousins wasn't as uncommon a practice up until about the 20th century, especially in Europe. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage#Europe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage#Europe)
Nobles and rulers of the time would also marry cousins for political alignment, or what have you, so it really isn't a stretch of the imagination that two powerful clans would also have their children marry to further strengthen the bonds between the Belmonts and Belnades families.
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Although there's also nothing stopping one of the branch families having two parents killed off and the other branch adopting the orphaned child back into the main branch.
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In Regards To The Artwork,
I'd love it if the next Akumajo Dracula title featured the Byzantine-style art that Kojima made for the CV Music Box
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv119%2Fc0mbat%2FBooklet20Front.png&hash=f7742f730c01fda34c5422505ffef9744e5c3861)
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv119%2Fc0mbat%2FBooklet20Back.png&hash=3d1990a55422ed826d8b3f41513ececd23b0e6ce)
one of the best art pieces in the series, hands down
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Agreed. That would be trippy (and a nice troll) if the graphics mimicked the style perfectly as well. I think I'd have to buy two copies at that point. I wouldn't care what the story or gameplay was, I'd be in it for awesome 14th century styled painting action (or dating sim or whatever)!
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you hear that konami? if you make your games look like a monty python animation, one man will buy two copies!
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Once again, I believe, if developers really would like to create a fullfleshed entry into the Old Canon, they must have much more intimate knowledge of the story, rather than just few paragraphs.
With such approach they can create something, that will mess up the timeline and anger fans.
Well, first of all, pretty all the stories of the games are fairly self-contained in the classic canon barely make any references to each other. Even direct sequels like Cod and PoR do this aside from briefly acknowledging that the protagonist from the prequel defeated Dracula. Secondly, I can tell from experience that fact checking certain details about the story doesn't take more than a few minutes of one's time. If you still disagree, could you perhaps give some sort of example?
The thing, it could work with something that have regular / scheduled installments, like TV-series, comic books, movies, e.t.c.
With the Castlevania the problem is that later games jumped all over the place. Or rather "all over the time". One game set up something like could have been an interesting story or introduced new elements, that could have been elaborated, but the very next game jumped at another point in timeline and didn't answer anything.
Basically, it's like, if writer decided to publish his book one chapter per day. But instead publishing chapters in order, he publishing them in completely random sequence. And there is no guarantee that the next chapter will answer questions or will be published at all.
That's why I am on board with the LOS storytelling - its maybe not very unique, but at least they put effort to tell a coherent story, not random puzzle pieces.
I think that each game can stand on its own in terms of story. I don't really know a lot of things that I wished the story would have elaborated on more like you said, aside from me thinking stuff like "This boss/enemy is very interesting. I wonder what his story is?" or other minor stuff. I like to speculate about things like that when playing the game. I'm not bothered that this is never answered because it's not really important at all to the larger narrative. When I look at some of the things you considered to be holes in the timeline, I thought a lot of the points were rather minor too. Things that would be interesting to know but are not really imporant. If you don't like small things being kept a mystery, you won't like a lot of fiction. Oh well. Opinions, opinions.
As for plot elements that are vital to the story, for example, the mystery of why the Belmonts disappeared and why the gave the whip to the Morris family etc. , I think it was gradually being revealed as the series went along. I was brought up and introduced for the first time in PoR, OoE explained exactly what happend to the Belmont family, and I highly suspect the canceled Alucard game was going to reveal the rest. At least with major plotlines they put an effort in gradually elaborating on them, albeit slowly. So the storyline might not be as random as you may think.
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I guess whoever wrote that family tree (either IGA or someone else) wasn't quite thinking about it. If the Belnades clan is still continuing after Sypha then the only real way for that to happen is if Sypha has relatives of her own, say a Brother or a Cousin. They can't come from the Belmont clan and Sypha would have been absorbed into the Belmont clan herself. Her children would have taken the name Belmont and not Belnades. If Sypha did have a girl child in order for them to explain the continuation of the Belnades name then she would have to marry back into the Belnades family. And that would be incestual. The Morris family is easy to connect the dots; A woman Belmont marries into the Morris clan thus securing her descendants with the powers of the Belmont blood. Easy. I've seen earlier attempts at a family tree which tried to explain the all the families in the CV series (every single character) and all I could see from it was an incest fest. So that particular person didn't know how to do a family tree either. I think maybe the problem is that they are thinking too much about the origins of the supernatural powers that are inherent in all the families rather then being realistic about it and going about making the tree from a biological standpoint which is far more important. Then after the tree has been properly written out THEN apply the supernatural powers explanation.
Why do I always claim stuff without checking properly? I disremembered the connenction between the Belmonts and the Belnadeses. I looked at the family tree again, and it shows a line that spawns from Sypha's name and eventually leads to Yoko. However, it's clear that this line is not a result of Trevor and Sypha having a child. So unless Sypha did some cheating behind Trevor's back, I guess it means Sypha had a distant relative who continued the Belnades clan or something.
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It could work like this: Sypha has a family several years prior to her mix-up with the Cyclops. After she is presumed dead her family moves on. Then she is saved by Trevor and after Dracula is defeated she falls in love with him and has a new family.
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Secondly, I can tell from experience that fact checking certain details about the story doesn't take more than a few minutes of one's time. If you still disagree, could you perhaps give some sort of example?
I am agree with you, that to understand even Castlevanian timeline you doesn't need a lot of time. The question is: will new developers even think about spending few hours just to browse through the Castlevania Wikia or some fan sites to checkup on everything? They are not paid for that.
I think that each game can stand on its own in terms of story. I don't really know a lot of things that I wished the story would have elaborated on more like you said, aside from me thinking stuff like "This boss/enemy is very interesting. I wonder what his story is?" or other minor stuff. I like to speculate about things like that when playing the game. I'm not bothered that this is never answered because it's not really important at all to the larger narrative. When I look at some of the things you considered to be holes in the timeline, I thought a lot of the points were rather minor too. Things that would be interesting to know but are not really imporant. If you don't like small things being kept a mystery, you won't like a lot of fiction. Oh well. Opinions, opinions.
I like to have everything explained and neatly arranged in the story. Or at least, to have riddles and unexplained stuff to be integrated in the story from the begining, so unanswered things didn't looked like copout or lazyness of the writer. I am very demanding to such things and I don't like, when writer setup something that could be seemingly important to the story as the whole and then forget it in favor of something else. Reeks of bad writing.
I firmly believe, that details is what make story live and breathe, so to speak. You didn't need to explain some mundainity to the audience, but if you introduce some seemingly random elements, please, explain them at some point and feel the blanks in between. There is nothing more pleasurable, than to see story gradually reveal every part of it and enjoy an understanding of the whole grandiose plot, that was hidden before your very eyes for the whole time.
Of course, I think, I maybe expect from Castlevania too much, since I often look at it, if it was a "storyline game", that it most likely never was in the true sense. Still, I am saddened by this, because Castlevania is kind of unique and interesting tale and with the right approach it could become a very awesome and epic thing. Sadly developers missed one opportunity after another and that's why I am a bit bitter about Castlevania Old Canon as the whole. As of now, in my eyes, it's a storyline of missed opportunities.
As for plot elements that are vital to the story, for example, the mystery of why the Belmonts disappeared and why the gave the whip to the Morris family etc. , I think it was gradually being revealed as the series went along. I was brought up and introduced for the first time in PoR, OoE explained exactly what happend to the Belmont family, and I highly suspect the canceled Alucard game was going to reveal the rest. At least with major plotlines they put an effort in gradually elaborating on them, albeit slowly. So the storyline might not be as random as you may think.
Yet, still it took a lot time to get even to the that point. And there were a lot of things in between, that really weren't needed. Like DOS and Judgement for example.
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aaaand the topic seems to be dead (besides nerdy debating).
I would like to say thank you to everyone for their contributions. I just hope one english literate employee of Konami Japan saw the page count on this topic and thought: "they still care"
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The fact that this forum is still alive and kicking is evidence enough to Konami (EU, US or JP) that there is still a healthy interest in the Castlevania series as a whole. While we may or may not get another Japanese developed Castlevania in the future, I don't think this thread will have any weight on Konami's decision in the future on whether they give the development contract to a Japanese developer or any other developer (Korea has development studios too!).
What's going to weigh most in their mind is; who can do it on budget, has a good track record making games that turn a profit and who's idea for the series meshes most with current trends in the market and will be popular. Secondary will be what will appease fans, primary is bringing in new fans and a profit. And that's game development in a nutshell!
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we should all just mass-e-mail WayForward & ask them over n over to try n acquire the rights to CV
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Never.
I honestly think the franchise is done after LoS is over.
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I honestly think the franchise is done after LoS is over.
Series will live as long as its profitable.
I think, that after LOS there will be a brief pause, so Konami could think of what to do next, but in case LOS2 will be (very) successful, then most likely there will be some kind of the new installment.
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I am agree with you, that to understand even Castlevanian timeline you doesn't need a lot of time. The question is: will new developers even think about spending few hours just to browse through the Castlevania Wikia or some fan sites to checkup on everything? They are not paid for that.
If they liked the old story I'm sure they would do that. Story research falls under the development of the game, so it's not like they wouldn't get paid for it. :P
I'll let this debate rest since I think we both made our points pretty clear and we're just arguing opinions now.