Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: tazamaroo on September 26, 2012, 04:29:19 PM
-
Personally, I'd say the PS1 version holds a much steadier ground, 3D or no.
Gavites Games - Castlevania 64 Rip-Off - Castlevania Symphony of the Night...wait wut?? (E9 S2) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkCVng3-VAM#)
-
You'll be hard-pressed to find anyone who sides with the N64 version over SotN I'm afraid.
-
You'll be hard-pressed to find anyone who sides with the N64 version over SotN I'm afraid.
This ^^^
SOTN is "critically acclaimed" and is a all around fan favorite amongst CV fans.
There are very few who did not like it, you may find only a handful of members who who view Symphony in a lesser view than CV64.
But CV64 isn't as nearly loved as SOTN which really does not make this a fair contest.
Not that its a bad game, I actually liked it alot and thought it was a great translation into the 3.D realm of CV and loved its platforming.
A better .vs. battle would have been CVSOTN vs SCIV if you ask me.
-
Yeah I personally enjoyed the N64 CV's. In fact, I have LoD emulated atm since my brother has my N64. Sure the controls were a little clunky, but I just perceived it as Castlevania at its roots. And LoD giving you control of the camera solved a lot of THAT frustration.
-
Yeah, I love the N64 Castlevania titles, but compared to SotN? That's apples and oranges right there.
Interesting video though, is there any confirmation for a canceled 32x CV title being the basis of SotN? I always imagined RoB being the basis for SotN's development/evolution.
-
I personally really liked CV64. To me it's what a 3D CV should be. Sure it has it's problems but I'm able to look past them. I thought it had some cool ideas too. Like having vampires be able to bite you and having to cure it before you change into one. I wish they would try to improve on what they had here.
For comparing what's better... you really can't. SotN is more rpg and backtracking while CV is more(at least to me) Classicvania. Both are good games but have very different play styles.
-
Castlevania 64 and Legacy of Darkness are really the only three-dimensional Castlevania games I've cared to play through more than once.
SotN is amazing for what it is, but that's almost an entirely different take on the series (for a number of reasons). It's safe to say that Castlevania 64/LoD was the last game that made me feel like it was more about having to drive a wooden stake through the Count's chest cavity at any cost, rather than beautiful anime men, whose powers seem only limited to imagination.
There are no wooden stakes in Castlevania 64/LoD, but I felt limited, vulnerable, as I should. I enjoy all of the titles so far (with the exception of Lords of Shadow), but for different reasons. Konami created a fork in the road over SotN's popularity, and I'm not bitter, but I certainly wouldn't object to more games like Castlevania 64/LoD (three-dimensional or not).
-
I would love for KoJ to make CV64 & LoD into a Chronicles set, for the 3DS with improved controls & whatnot. I think it'd sell quite well, too
I've been meaning to hook up my n64 & run through CV64, later this month perhaps
-
It's really comparing two different things. CV64 was the first attempt at a 3D CV and Konami did a great job considering. And it seems they did learned from it. LoD was marginally better, but that's because it came out so soon after CV64. SotN, while being 2D, was set up differently from the games that came before it in that it had RPG elements and metroid style exploration. Both these games were experiments in new directions.
Both these games were steps in new directions. As someone already said, there was a metaphorical fork placed in the road at that time. Every CV game that came out after those two was either 3D or a SotN clone. Regarding the PS2 titles (LoI and CoD) Konami attempted to merge those two ideas with decent results (CoD was shit though).
In the end, while SotN is held in higher regard compared to CV64, both games should be recognized for what they are: experiments into new directions which led to the games we have now. (my opinion)
-
I for once on the CV64 side. I enjoyed it far more than SOTN and I thought that it was much more interesting and atmospheric. As for gameplay - both games had problems.
-
Apples and tomatos. CV64 special edition/LoD is imo the best 3Dvania and one of my personal favorite games of all time. But SOTN is probably one of the greatest games ever made. Beyond just personal gut preference though it depends on what you're comparing them by. If you're going by influence well of course SOTN is going to win as it redefined "Castlevania" in the minds of the general public. But as far as being true to what was traditionally core Castlevania, 64 wins hands down. I mean at the time that was kind of the point of playing as Alucard, he wouldn't see or go through the Castle the same way a Belmont would, since it many ways he was akin to the creatures within it.
At the end of the day they're both tremendously fun games that deserve to be played.
-
You definitely cannot compare SotN with CV64/LoD. They are two different games that play in two totally different ways. One 2D, the other 3D. I like both, but I'll admit that I was turned off by CV64 when I first heard about it. At the time the SotN craze was still in full swing and the idea of a 3D Castlevania just didn't sit well with me. But after playing through it I rather enjoyed it. Great music, great atmosphere, even the graphics at the time were also good. While I did find it tricky to play what with the jerky camera and all, I liked the game. To this day I still play CV64/Lod. Way more-so then LoI and CoD.
I would love for KoJ to make CV64 & LoD into a Chronicles set, for the 3DS with improved controls & whatnot. I think it'd sell quite well, too
I wanna f**king see this! They did it with Zelda 64 and it turned out very well, so why not LoD?
-
SOTN, hands down for me. But I can't help but have Castlevania 64 be my forever 'what could have been' game. So much potential. And the mood/atmosphere was spot on for me.
-
To add to what I said yesterday, both SotN and CV64 had there flaws. SotN was way too easy (especially once you get a crissagrim). As for CV64, the camera angles sucked and were hard to control. Plus, the controls were somewhat shitty and the design seemed very blocky. Honestly, if Konami made a remake of CV64 and LoD with updated graphics (LoS quality) and better controls, they would be well received and I'd buy them.
On a more personal note, I hated the fifth level of CV64. I could never get the Magical Nitro down to the Arena where the bull is. No matter what I did, it would explode on me. I would just be walking and it would explode even though it should not have.
-
On a more personal note, I hated the fifth level of CV64. I could never get the Magical Nitro down to the Arena where the bull is. No matter what I did, it would explode on me. I would just be walking and it would explode even though it should not have.
oh boy, do I remember that level... >:(
I remember spending 2 hours straight trying to get past that part of the game and exploding so many times I lost count lol.
It was a real pain to get past that part and took A LOT of patience.
-
oh boy, do I remember that level... >:(
I remember spending 2 hours straight trying to get past that part of the game and exploding so many times I lost count lol.
It was a real pain to get past that part and took A LOT of patience.
I never got passed that part. And, to make matters worse, my memory pack or whatever it was called lost all my data as well as the ability to save any new data. So, I gave up.
-
You'll be hard-pressed to find anyone who sides with the N64 version over SotN I'm afraid.
Oh Really?
I would love for KoJ to make CV64 & LoD into a Chronicles set, for the 3DS with improved controls & whatnot. I think it'd sell quite well, too
I've been meaning to hook up my n64 & run through CV64, later this month perhaps
Does anyone remember the thread I made for LoD 3ds for the port/remake thingy?
Also With 3d cv being talked about and it being the n64 titles I am just going to chill and wait for RichterB to give a long ace explanation/speech on how awesome the n64 games are.... ;) .... ;D
-
http://www.castlevaniadungeon.net/features/n64good-1.html (http://www.castlevaniadungeon.net/features/n64good-1.html)
-cough-
-
On a more personal note, I hated the fifth level of CV64. I could never get the Magical Nitro down to the Arena where the bull is. No matter what I did, it would explode on me. I would just be walking and it would explode even though it should not have.
To be honest I've never had the nitro explode on me unless i did something to aggravate it. It could be that your copy might have a glitch somewhere. But the first thing I do in stage five is get the nitro down to the Red Bull's-...er I mean Colosseum area. Then once that's all and done with I can then relax and breeze through the rest of the stage.
-
The one thing that no one seems to have mentioned in this thread is that unlike all the other games except for LoS, the N64 titles have vampires as normal enemies. Not only that, in the N64 titles, they try to bite you and if they succeed, there's a chance you to be infected with vampirism which will turn you into a vampire (and give you a game over) if you don't cure it in time. Why don't they have that in other games?
-
Yes, that would be cool. One thing that makes the game harder to me is the absense of a map. Im playing LoD with Cornell and doesnt know anymore where to go or what to do, I've saved Henry and found one fragment of the stone that you put in a door, but I cant find the another one lol
-
Im playing LoD with Cornell and doesnt know anymore where to go or what to do, I've saved Henry and found one fragment of the stone that you put in a door, but I cant find the another one lol
The second stone fragment is locked away in the maze garden clearing that is surrounded by a rot-iron fence. In order to unlock the gate you need the rose amulet which is found on top of the fountain just outside of the villa's entrance. In order to procure it you need to wait for a certain time of day (around 3:00 or 4:00 am if I'm not mistaken). The villa is one of the few stages that you need to go back and forth in order to complete it. Even more-so in LoD the before (CV64).
-
I know this place, I've even thought about that and climbed the fountain, but since I didnt have found a special item I discarded that possibiity, since you clarified it now I will resume my game, thanks.
-
The one thing that no one seems to have mentioned in this thread is that unlike all the other games except for LoS, the N64 titles have vampires as normal enemies. Not only that, in the N64 titles, they try to bite you and if they succeed, there's a chance you to be infected with vampirism which will turn you into a vampire (and give you a game over) if you don't cure it in time. Why don't they have that in other games?
I mention the biting part in my post.
But I agree I absolutely loved this in the 64 games and wish it would return.
-
I know this place, I've even thought about that and climbed the fountain, but since I didnt have found a special item I discarded that possibiity, since you clarified it now I will resume my game, thanks.
Yeah you need a rose key to unlock the top of the fountain.
Also, there's a very small rose garden in a circular room with a pillar in the middle. During the early morning (I *think* it's sometime between midnight and 7 AM you will see some red roses appear. Inspect it to get the key.
Let's Play Castlevania Legacy of Darkness 5 - The Villa (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imlUp4MMtSQ#)
At about 0:04 into the video, the player goes zoomed view. The spot where they zoom in is where you'll see the red roses appear. Investigate them when they do.
-
Wow! So its "here"?! Thats cheap, I never thought in searching this place, thanks. If you dont said that I would wait in the fountain near these gravestones eternally.
-
The people who like the N64 games are a VERY vocal minority. Members of this camp will rant and pout enough to make you believe the games were actually liked, if not loved.
The truth, however, is the N64 titles are abysmal in nearly every gamer's eye. They were critical failures, getting blasted by nearly every publication. Konami will never re-release them. Developers like IGA actually APOLOGIZED to the fans, and asked us to forget they existed. This all sums up the company's attitude toward them.
What they did right:
Unique multiple characters
Atmosphere
Good level design with actual platforms
Nice set of movement abilities abilities; like slide, and climb
Story was a bit more in depth than usual CV titles
What it did wrong:
God awful camera, and no LoD didn't help it that much
Slow, clunky, unresponsive, nearly unplayable controls
Combat unsuited for 3D environments
Having to stop and pickup every item on the play field (like, subweapon ammo), slowing down your progress and flow
Music was nearly non-existent and lack luster (more opinion orientated)
Graphics were shitty (more opinion orientated)(I personally think it looked fine for N64)
Many CV64/LoD proponents will argue "But like it had so much potential man!" and "Look at the prototype! It had way more stuff!" Well that doesn't mean shit if the actual game didn't have it. It is not a positive point, in fact the developer's failure to complete it all is a negative point.
Despite all of it's good points, a game mainly comes down to gameplay and play-ability. This was where they fell apart the most, and earned their place as some of the most unpopular Castlevanias of all time.
-
If the content didn't make it into the final game, it isn't worth mentioning. I could prototype a game with the coolest stuff ever and then release a pong clone. Does that make my pong clone cooler because in the prototype I had flying ninjas using nuclear explosions to power their hoverboards as they dogfight against T-rexes in F-14s? Nope! I just have a lame pong clone. (A bit of a drastic example but you get what I'm saying).
I've been saying this since the 3D Iga Castlevanias but it really was a waste for them not to look at the formula with the N64 titles and see what worked and what didn't and incorporate and learn from those for future titles. (I also used to harp that Iga didn't have any sense with 3D and should collaborate with Kojima, ha!)
However, as a community of fans we could potentially write up a petition to get the CV64/LoD titles redone for the 3DS with improved graphics, tighter controls and better camera system. Some may argue that petitions won't work, but Audi USA is releasing the limited Audi TT-RS to the states (when it had originally planned not to) because of a petition from buyers. So there is precedence in using a petition to get Konami's attention and let them know where some easy money is hanging out to fill their coffers.
But Uzo does make a valid point, beyond our community, who actually liked the N64 outings for Castlevania? I mean, I love them, but I also understand that they are flawed titles and weren't well received when they first came out (I think I remember vague rumblings in the community that they weren't SotN so they sucked, back in the day). So, maybe I've been out of the loop for too long, but who the hell ranted and pouted about these titles to be seen as an item to be loved by everyone? If someone likes them, they like them, and if someone doesn't they just don't. You can bring up points why you think they were great or at least deserve a little more recognition than a brown stain in a shiny porcelain bowl, but people shouldn't go thinking they can change someone from not liking something to liking something with just impassioned words and factual evidence.
Of course, if everyone here lived by that we would probably have less hate and more unity as a community... :P
-
Wow! So its "here"?! Thats cheap, I never thought in searching this place, thanks. If you dont said that I would wait in the fountain near these gravestones eternally.
Yeah it pops up right after 6 A.M.. I don't remember if you need to enter the room after 6 A.M. or if you can safely be in the room. But yeah that fucking thorn key was the bane of many LoD gamers.
-
I used a sun card, its more easy than wait, thanks, nippah~
-
I used a sun card, its more easy than wait, thanks, nippah~
Np. Let me know if you finish that stage!
-
Np. Let me know if you finish that stage!
When I said about the sun card I've already finished it. Afer knowing where the key are hidden it took me 5~10 minutes to pick the key, open a maze gate to grab a brooch, use the brooch to pick the fragment A and then use it to open the door and battle the boss.
-
The people who like the N64 games are a VERY vocal minority. Members of this camp will rant and pout enough to make you believe the games were actually liked, if not loved.
You are entitled to your own assessment of the games but I must question this point. I have not seen someone make such an argument, and I think for the most part we are merely individuals who like to form our own opinions, rather than go into something with a negative mindset because we're told to dislike it.
I know my contention has always been that the N64 games get a bad wrap because they failed to live up to expectations and standards to which they never aspired. I've not claimed the games were successful or generally well liked. Critics and players who only knew the series from SOTN (i.e. "nearly every gamer") were disappointed that the 64 games were not MetroidVania in 3D. Even though I'm pretty sure that would have been impossible on the N64, and IGA's own 3D entries have shown us it might not be the best idea anyway.
The 64vanias did not reinvent the wheel as Symphony of the Night had done. In terms of gameplay they were translations of the ClassicVania formula into 3D, nothing more and nothing less aside from some character and plot fleshing missions and the inventory/shop system. Artistically and in terms of storytelling they broke (or at least stretched) the mold in ways I found refreshing and personally I think the artstyle is beautiful. The camera in LoD is also a matter of taste, I was bothered by it a grand total of maybe 3 times in the whole game, being totally honest. Which is far less than in a lot of games I've played, including Lament of Innocence.
All that being said yes, there are and were a lot of people who like the N64 titles, just because IGA or anyone else doesn't like them does not make our opinions automatically invalid. And it's a dangerously easy step in implication from "vocal minority" to "minority so it doesn't matter", especially when we have no way of knowing exactly how big this minority is.