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Off Topic => Off Topic => Topic started by: Highwind Dragoon on November 06, 2012, 08:45:23 PM

Title: President Obama wins re-election
Post by: Highwind Dragoon on November 06, 2012, 08:45:23 PM
http://politicslive.cnn.com/Event/Election_Day_2012?hpt=hp_t1_5 (http://politicslive.cnn.com/Event/Election_Day_2012?hpt=hp_t1_5)

Lol, Ohio stole Florida's thunder.  8)
Title: Re: President Obama projected to win re-election
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on November 06, 2012, 09:10:14 PM
Projected?  He won already (basically).
Title: Re: President Obama projected to win re-election
Post by: Gunlord on November 06, 2012, 09:48:39 PM
RIP Mitt Romney
Title: Re: President Obama projected to win re-election
Post by: Highwind Dragoon on November 06, 2012, 10:34:16 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2012/11/07/democrat-tammy-baldwin-wins-wisconsin-senate-race/ (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2012/11/07/democrat-tammy-baldwin-wins-wisconsin-senate-race/)

Rep. Tammy Baldwin (D) won the open Wisconsin Senate race Tuesday, becoming the first openly gay person elected to the US senate.

Also, Marijuana is fully legal in Colorado now.  :o
Title: Re: President Obama wins re-election
Post by: Gunlord on November 06, 2012, 11:19:57 PM
I KNOW WHICH STATE IM MOVING TO
Title: Re: President Obama wins re-election
Post by: Flame on November 06, 2012, 11:26:38 PM
It still has to go head to head with federal govt, because its still illegal by federal law. The win just means that state voted for lehaizing it. It doesn't make it automatic
Title: Re: President Obama wins re-election
Post by: Highwind Dragoon on November 06, 2012, 11:32:42 PM
Yes, but this is a small first step.  8)
Title: Re: President Obama wins re-election
Post by: Abnormal Freak on November 07, 2012, 12:39:47 AM
Can't wait to hear the excuses over the next four years for a shitty economy. Past four years was: "It's Bush's fault!" Next four years will be: "It's the Republican House's fault!"

Not that a not-very-conservative guy like Mitt Romney would have fared much better, but damn. Prepare yourselves, boys! It's about to get bumpy.
Title: Re: President Obama wins re-election
Post by: GuyStarwind on November 07, 2012, 01:10:11 AM
They tried to pass the legal marijuana law here in Oregon but I don't think it passed.
Title: Re: President Obama wins re-election
Post by: Bloodreign on November 07, 2012, 03:38:49 AM
I knew the moment I opened Facebook the shitstorm from folks not high on the Obama list would start, boy did I underestimate exactly how much pissing and moaning I'd see.

As for the weed legalization shit, long as it stays out of my state I'm fine with it, the college kids smoke the hell out of it anyway, and it makes them stink something awful.  :-X
Title: Re: President Obama wins re-election
Post by: BullockDS on November 07, 2012, 07:24:00 AM
Can't wait to hear the excuses over the next four years for a shitty economy. Past four years was: "It's Bush's fault!" Next four years will be: "It's the Republican House's fault!"

Not that a not-very-conservative guy like Mitt Romney would have fared much better, but damn. Prepare yourselves, boys! It's about to get bumpy.
It will be interesting (and perhaps funny) indeed to see how this'll play out.

Also, to shamelessly steal from another forum: I hope we get much better candidates in 2016; I'm sick of voting for the lesser of two evils.

Finally, I've got this to say:
To Obama supporters: Celebration is cool. Insulting and harassing Romney supporters, not so much. Be humble.
To Romney supporters: It’s okay to be upset, but throwing ugly insults at Obama supporters is not the way to handle it. Be respectful.
Title: Re: President Obama wins re-election
Post by: Mooning Freddy on November 07, 2012, 07:37:15 AM
What I'm gonna say is what I said about the economic/political crisis in Europe: RESPONSIBILITY, RESPONSIBILITY, RESPONSIBILITY.
I'm an Obama supporter since I share his views on most issues, and I hope he would prove to be more responsible than Romney would have been. And when I say responsible I mean for the American people to unite and work hard to cover for that huge national debt created by irresponsible economy in the 2000's. Oh, and work out those social issues like healthcare which Obama failed to accomplish during his first term.
Oh, and that pain in the arse called Iran, I hope Obama knows when to take action.
The world is going through some major changes, and it's hard to tell if for better or worse.
Title: Re: President Obama wins re-election
Post by: Ratty on November 07, 2012, 08:11:36 AM
Is this really the place to bring up politics? Lol well I'll just say that I'm very pleased with this. Obama has done well with the smoking wreckage he was handed, or perhaps I should say the bomb that was in the process of exploding. He helped end a pointless war which cost hundreds of thousands of lives and billions of taxpayer dollars, finally killed Osama Bin Laden (something Bush had basically said he wasn't even trying to do anymore) and averted a total depression. Romney's position on any issue depended entirely on which crowd and where he was speaking to.

Obama also tried to reform our woeful healthcare system and has helped restore America's image abroad. Also for anyone who's going to say that Obama won because of people on welfare- I know a lot of people on welfare and foodstamps, living in a particularly depressed (Red) State. And all of them voted for Romney because they're socially conservative. In my experience people never consider for a minute that when government aid cuts are being discussed it could be the aid THEY are getting that could be cut. Not all people recieving aid are lazy or unemployed either, for those who buy the american bootstrap myth I recommend reading this. http://truth-out.org/news/item/12264-lies-of-plutocracy-exploding-five-myths-that-dehumanize-the-poor (http://truth-out.org/news/item/12264-lies-of-plutocracy-exploding-five-myths-that-dehumanize-the-poor)
Title: Re: President Obama wins re-election
Post by: PFG9000 on November 07, 2012, 08:20:35 AM
I wish more people would do write-ins.  I also wish we didn't have a primary election.  You should only ever vote for the #1 absolute bestest candidate you can find...not just the guy your political party is pooling its resources behind.

Let's say candidate x was running against candidates y and z in the primary.  You voted for candidate z, but candidate x won the primary.  Now you're going to vote for candidate x in the general election, when you believe that candidate z is a better candidate?  You can still do a write-in - why compromise your own integrity by voting for somebody you don't fully support (after all, you didn't full support him or her few months ago)?

Yet millions of voters do this in every election.  Everyone seems to think you can only vote for the two major candidates, and we get this crap like "I'm voting for the lesser of two evils."  (No offense, TheMoonMan, but that's what it is.)  You shouldn't vote for anybody you don't fully support.  And you shouldn't support anybody just because your political party does.  You don't vote as a party; you vote as an individual.  All this "vote strategizing," for lack of a better term, is a corruption of the concept of a free vote.  Voters try to place their vote wherever it will matter the most, i.e. only for one of the two major candidates.  They think it's "throwing your vote away" if you vote for anybody else.  But by that same logic, you might as well vote for the opposition if the polls are showing him in a strong lead, since it's just "throwing your vote away" to vote for somebody who doesn't win.

Unfortunately, that's the problem with party politics.  As long as we have such a strong bipartisan system, our elections will come down to this trash.  Write-ins, people!  You can vote for whomever you want!  If you don't like the names on the ballot, you had damn well better be adding some new ones.
Title: Re: President Obama wins re-election
Post by: Mooning Freddy on November 07, 2012, 08:43:44 AM
Let me tell you this, PFG, my country has a political system completely different, and let me tell you this, everybody hates it.
Unlike USA who uses a majoritarian-state vote, it's a one-voting region proportionality vote which lets you vote for a party for parliament rather than state leader. Since the country is very split ideologically, we have 14 parties, that's right, 14 parties in the parliament ATM, 4 of them big parties with over 10 seats. The parties are VERY different ideologically, starting with social, liberal parties and ending with religious ( some almost racist) parties who try to promote religious legislation. Since no party has a majority they are forced to construct coalitions of at least 3 parties and whoever manages to build a bigger coalition becomes PM. All the politicians hate each other and often when a party leader has major ideological disagreements with his party members he leaves it to form a new party, fucking up the system. And then people annoyed by the party system go into politics forming their own parties, like a popular journalist who recently formed a new party, which is popular but its agenda is totally unclear.

Problem, officer? 
Title: Re: President Obama wins re-election
Post by: X on November 07, 2012, 09:40:46 AM
Quote
Let me tell you this, PFG, my country has a political system completely different, and let me tell you this, everybody hates it.
Unlike USA who uses a majoritarian-state vote, it's a one-voting region proportionality vote which lets you vote for a party for parliament rather than state leader. Since the country is very split ideologically, we have 14 parties, that's right, 14 parties in the parliament ATM, 4 of them big parties with over 10 seats. The parties are VERY different ideologically, starting with social, liberal parties and ending with religious ( some almost racist) parties who try to promote religious legislation. Since no party has a majority they are forced to construct coalitions of at least 3 parties and whoever manages to build a bigger coalition becomes PM. All the politicians hate each other and often when a party leader has major ideological disagreements with his party members he leaves it to form a new party, fucking up the system. And then people annoyed by the party system go into politics forming their own parties, like a popular journalist who recently formed a new party, which is popular but its agenda is totally unclear.

This is just like Canada's Parliament system except we don't have the religious extremists in the House of Commons. Mainly cause we wouldn't allow it to get that out of hand. But like PFG9000 mentioned don't vote if you don't like any of the people or parties who're running. I haven't voted in three years because of the way politics are. It's a big mess and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if the big corporations are using their money and high status to bribe/threaten said politicians and/or people.
Title: Re: President Obama wins re-election
Post by: Kale on November 07, 2012, 10:43:22 AM
I didn't vote. I knew it would be screwed anyway. I thought Mitt Romney was gonna win though. But Obama winning is just the same in pretty much anything that might help us get out of the shit-filled ditch we're seemingly getting comfortable in.

I would've voted for Ron Paul, but he didn't get nominated. Even if I wrote him in, it wouldn't have counted in my state. And not to mention, Ron Paul supporters are also separated between him and Gary Johnson. And then there are people who think it'll be a wasted vote because they would be voting for someone they actually want because he's somehow predeteremined to lose. (Idiots)

And finally, I think that shit is rigged. Electoral votes are the only one that counts anyway.
Title: Re: President Obama wins re-election
Post by: Flame on November 07, 2012, 10:58:15 AM
It's shameful that the country that touts Democracy and loves to throw around Freedom and bring it places like a fucking birthday gift,  does not have a direct vote, and instead, relies on an out of date antiquated system, where electors are selected per state to actually vote. The Electoral College was created in an older time when people were far less educated and there was very little information readily available about a particular candidate. especially once you left the campaign places and went further out from there. So it was deemed that the people were not educated enough on the matters to vote and they would have electors who would, basically, vote for that state. (Not to mention, only the rich or people involved in politics and such ever really voted, so that cut the list down even more)

But nowadays, where information is available on a whim, wherever whenever, it is a system that is fucking outdated, unnecessary in this day and age,  and fucking shameful. Because it basically turns that "constitutional privilege" that "right" to vote and choose the leader, and flips it on it's head and throws it out the window. they say "people have died" to protect our right to Vote. Well their deaths were in vain and worthless, because our right to vote does not matter when there is a higher group of voters who actually decide the presidency despite what the rest of the country decides. 

Because if nobody in any state voted, the electoral college would still be there to do it. Look at some elections like Gore/Bush. Gore won the popular vote, in other words- the United States people CHOSE HIM, but the electoral college just so happened, because lets not be confused by fancy terminology here- becoming an elector is as random as being selected for jury duty- to be more republican than democrat. And so despite the vote winning Gore the presidency, The Electoral college shat all over that and selected Bush instead.

How the hell do people accept this? I don't get it. Why don't more people complain or protest the electoral college still existing? (well, we all know why, because of ignorance, thats why. half the people in the country probably either dont know it exists, or know the name but dont know what it really is)
Title: Re: President Obama wins re-election
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on November 07, 2012, 01:29:09 PM
Let me tell you this, PFG, my country has a political system completely different, and let me tell you this, everybody hates it.
Unlike USA who uses a majoritarian-state vote, it's a one-voting region proportionality vote which lets you vote for a party for parliament rather than state leader. Since the country is very split ideologically, we have 14 parties, that's right, 14 parties in the parliament ATM, 4 of them big parties with over 10 seats. The parties are VERY different ideologically, starting with social, liberal parties and ending with religious ( some almost racist) parties who try to promote religious legislation. Since no party has a majority they are forced to construct coalitions of at least 3 parties and whoever manages to build a bigger coalition becomes PM. All the politicians hate each other and often when a party leader has major ideological disagreements with his party members he leaves it to form a new party, fucking up the system. And then people annoyed by the party system go into politics forming their own parties, like a popular journalist who recently formed a new party, which is popular but its agenda is totally unclear.

Problem, officer?

Indeed, other countries (my experience with this is in Ecuador) have many many MANY political parties, going from actual left (Communist Party lawlz) to actual right (Christian Conservative Party).  Let's not kid ourselves: The United States does not truly have a LEFT to RIGHT party mentality.  On a global prism, the USA is more like "Center Right" to "Extreme Right".  The more 'liberal' party (which I guess would be the Democrats) actually has what the world would view as centrist/moderate views, going more towards right.

For true "Left" examples, take a look at countries like Venezuela (though with that corrupt asshole Chavez buying popularity and making gas cheaper than water there, it's really more like a willfully-ignorant dictatorship).
Title: Re: President Obama wins re-election
Post by: PFG9000 on November 07, 2012, 08:38:23 PM
For the record, I never said don't vote.  I think it's almost one's civic duty to vote.  I just think it's irresponsible to place your vote for somebody who isn't your #1 choice.

And Flame, I agree about the electoral college.  I've never understood the rationale behind it, and I think it's defeating the purpose of the popular vote.
Title: Re: President Obama wins re-election
Post by: Gunlord on November 07, 2012, 09:45:26 PM
I voted for Gary Johnson cause I truly believe in him :(
Title: Re: President Obama wins re-election
Post by: Neobelmont on November 07, 2012, 09:58:52 PM

Hmmm.... interesting so much stuff. Yet again it's politics and politics tend to make my head hurt I tell ya :-[
Title: Re: President Obama wins re-election
Post by: Mooning Freddy on November 08, 2012, 12:38:54 AM
Quote
But like PFG9000 mentioned don't vote if you don't like any of the people or parties who're running.

Don't do that. Seriously, don't do that. In my city, currently there's a campaign the goal of which is to encourage people to vote. A really cool motto that they brought goes like this:
Johnny, a 24 years-old secular college student, voted for closing down the Smadar Cinema on Sabbath (Saturdays) ~ When you don't vote, some one else gets your vote.
You all remember the saying "the only thing required for evil to prevail is for good man to do nothing." This is exactly the way it is in politics- many liberal people choose not to vote because they are okay with how their life is, and as a result they may find that changes occur which they didn't know about. I think that political ignorance is in a certain way the enemy of democracy.
Title: Re: President Obama wins re-election
Post by: TheCruelAngel on November 08, 2012, 09:10:20 AM
I voted for Gary Johnson cause I truly believe in him :(
Hell yeah, Gary Johnson FTW! (Though he techincally didn't win and was chumped out of the debates, but I digress...)

I love the hate for the systems around here, makes me feel at home! Agreed, don't vote for someone you don't believe in. Lesser of two evils is an idiotic mindset and I just can't comprehend why you would even bother? I didn't vote between Obama and McCain because I didn't like either candidate. Does it mean I threw away my vote? Technically, no! Because the electoral college is there to make sure my voice is not mine and is heard.

Which brings me to my next point, electoral colleges. Why? We live in an age of computers and free information, so why can't the people's votes be their votes instead of a charade parading as the people's votes? I don't know, I make no claims to be knowledgeable about politics but even I can tell when something isn't right. I mean, it really brings on a "why bother?" mentality and I don't like it.

And ANOTHER point that was brought up that I also agree with, corporate agendas in politics. Corporations spend so much on campaign ads and donations that it isn't unheard of for them to bully politicians to vote for the corporation's agendas even if they are borderline unconstitutional. RIAA or SOPA anyone? I think the more we can separate corporate influence in politics the better.

I'm not excited about Obama's re-election, but it wasn't unexpected either. I felt he had the election in the bag from the get go and whoever he was running against was screwed. Regardless I hope the best for him and his family and this country some of us live in.

Also big wins for Washington state, legalized gay marriage and marijuana. But go to Colorado anyway guys, I'm tired of out of staters not knowing how to drive in the rain.  ;D
Title: Re: President Obama wins re-election
Post by: crisis on November 08, 2012, 11:58:05 AM
I always felt that Mitt Romney is a Reptilian Humanoid in disguise.


X would know what I'm talking about~
Title: Re: President Obama wins re-election
Post by: X on November 08, 2012, 05:36:28 PM
I tend to think extra terrestrials are a lot smarter then Romney is...at least when it comes to religion anyways.
Title: Re: President Obama wins re-election
Post by: beingthehero on November 08, 2012, 05:49:38 PM
Aren't the grey aliens Jewish?
Title: Re: President Obama wins re-election
Post by: Profbeanburrito on November 08, 2012, 07:43:49 PM
I voted, and am very pleased with the results! The one thing I will say is that I feel the president did in his first term the best he could with what he had to work with. Unfortunately congress is still split and it will continue to be difficult for the country and the president. I just hope they can all com to some compromises that can benefit the country
Title: Re: President Obama wins re-election
Post by: Ratty on November 08, 2012, 11:57:23 PM
Let's not kid ourselves: The United States does not truly have a LEFT to RIGHT party mentality.  On a global prism, the USA is more like "Center Right" to "Extreme Right".  The more 'liberal' party (which I guess would be the Democrats) actually has what the world would view as centrist/moderate views, going more towards right.
Indeed, but there are many reasons why America has been so uniquely conservative among first world nations, and fortunately there are also reasons that this uniformity is changing. I think it's fairly safe to say that in most cases extreme conservatism is a position of fear, you wouldn't want a lot of guns and a huge military unless you (consciously or unconsciously) were very afraid of something. There have been studies supporting this http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2012/09/03/conservatives-and-liberals-have-different-brains-studies-show/ (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2012/09/03/conservatives-and-liberals-have-different-brains-studies-show/) Very broadly speaking the conservative view is that the world and change is something to be fought against and kept out, while the more progressive one is to embrace progress.

There are many causes of this widespread fearfulness in the US but the single most important one is probably the Cold War. Two entire generations of Americans, first the baby boomers then the generation X'ers, grew up with the constant looming threat of total nuclear annihilation, preparing to fight a third world war that never came.
45 odd years of going to sleep not knowing if you and everyone in your city will be dead before you wake up understandably bred quite a bit of paranoia.

Consequently the cold war period saw a rejection of any ideas that might remotely be considered communist or socialist because of paranoia over possible communist influence or infiltration. The popular term for something or someone who wasn't entirely communist but seemed sympathetic to or reminiscent of ideas from it was "Pinko", not entirely "Red" but close enough. This was probably the start of the fear of "big government" which we still see today.

This era also saw a strengthening of ties of Christianity to the conservative side of government. Initially as a way to distinguish Americans from "godless atheist" communists (this was when "One nation under God" was added to the pledge of allegiance, and when "In God We Trust" was made our official motto) then further when an amalgamation of the historically bickering and backbiting myriad Christian denominations settled their differences to become a political force following the legalization of abortion with Roe. v. Wade in 1973.
Particularly but certainly not only Evangelical preachers steeped themselves deeply into politics, and the hardy fraternity between religious leaders and American conservative talking heads and politicians is held firmly to this day. You can see an example of this in play for the just-passed Presidential election in this humorous montage put together by a prominent atheist on youtube.
(click to show/hide)

I could go on for a long time about other things, how most Americans are sheltered from the more unpleasant facts of their own history such as the well documented genocide of millions of Native Americans. But those listed above are the main reasons American conservatism flourished in the last century.

In the 20th Century when America still had a vast wealth of natural resources and the benefit of being one of the few first world nations without a country to be rebuilt following two world wars, it didn't much matter how insular and conservative Americans wanted to be, they still had enormous clout. But with a modern world which has unprecedented travel of both physical bodies and (especially) information the xenophobia of yesteryear is more outdated every day. The cultural and racial makeup of America is changing and changing fast, and the 1950s will never come back. For which I am eternally grateful.
Title: Re: President Obama wins re-election
Post by: Flame on November 09, 2012, 07:38:55 AM
amen to that. i hope modern ideas and rationality and reason win out over the antiquated fears and phobias and irrational behaviors of yesteryear
Title: Re: President Obama wins re-election
Post by: Abnormal Freak on November 09, 2012, 05:38:46 PM
What a strange view of America's past you two have.
Title: Re: President Obama wins re-election
Post by: X on November 09, 2012, 05:53:26 PM
Quote
Aren't the grey aliens Jewish?

I don't think so. The Jewish symbol aka the star of David is actually the intersecting Tetrahedral; Two equilateral triangles (Tetrahedrons) converging together that forms the six-sided star shape. The intersecting Tetrahedral is the mathematical blueprint for life, the universe and everything we know. And it was in existence long, looooong before the Jewish tribes ever used it for their nation's flag. Besides, extraterrestrials look exactly like us as we ourselves are not native to earth. Earth is a colony planet which throughout our history, most of us have forgotten. The grays are nothing more then biological androids used by extra terrestrials so they themselves are not in harm's way. And considering that we are a primitive, paranoid culture with war-like tendencies, their use of androids is justified. Sorry for derailing the topic  :P but beingthehero asked  ;D
Title: Re: President Obama wins re-election
Post by: Kale on November 09, 2012, 06:09:46 PM
I wish I knew Gary Johnson was going for 5%, I would've voted for him. As I didn't know what 5% entailed.

Oh well, I guess. I doubt ti will have helped much anyway.
Title: Re: President Obama wins re-election
Post by: Ratty on November 10, 2012, 02:42:42 AM
What a strange view of America's past you two have.

It's like they say, truth is stranger than fiction.

PS- Though personally I don't see anything strange about it. Human culture and society does not and never has existed in a vacuum. Really, the main function of any given society/culture is to serve as a buffer against environmental pressures (natural or man-made) so that the group can survive. While, like most things that are man-made, there will be parts that serve no function, the function of practices and beliefs which seem strange are often misunderstood or not seen at all without looking deeply.

For example I remember there was one culture where cannibalism was used as a way to strengthen ties between families. As I recall a man would eat some of his in-laws after they died as a favor to his wife's family. It was believed this was part of a process that would free the trapped souls of the in-laws. He also did some ritual hunting of birds, the soul having been next caught inside the bird, finally freed after it was killed, as part of this. Needless to say freeing a loved ones soul gains you a lot of gratitude, and families that stick together live longer in harsh environments. Of course this ritual may have had its origin in a time of famine, we don't know. But it helped pull the people together even if it was (unbeknownst to them at the time) demonstrably bad for them*, just as being too insular and conservative is bad for a group though they may not sense that it is.


*Cannibalism can lead to serious illnesses, it's how we got mad cow disease.