Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: SerenityinFire on November 23, 2012, 05:51:30 PM
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I'm rather curious as to how the Sega Saturn version compares to the PSX version of Symphony of the Night. I already that the Saturn version has the Underground Garden and Cursed Prison, as well as some really lame new enemies like bed sheets and Wispy Woods from Kirby.
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Two new shitty "levels", terrible new enemies, bad new music and a garbage new Richter sprite. I used to want to play it so badly and then I did and realized just how bad it is. I do own it but will never play it again. I think the best version is the Dracula X Chronicles one
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I've always seen it this way.
If you want quantity than get the Saturn version which adds new levels,enemies, and playable characters.
But
If you want quality than get the PSX version that has better graphics,less loading times, and runs more smoothly than the Saturn version.
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PS version is the best version of all, in my opinion. In an attempt to clean up the supposedly notorious voice acting, I think Konami made things worse by replacing it with the soulless Dracula X Chronicles voice acting. Something that has gained such cult status is probably best left alone, I think.
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I thought the new Richter sprite looked cool. I can understand why they used the original RoB sprite in the opening since it's a flashback type deal but the game takes places five years later. You would think Richter changed his clothes... Btw I haven't played the Saturn version I'm going off what I know.
I have to agree with Profbeanburrito I think the best version in the DXC one.
People will probably hate me but I liked the VA acting a lot in the DXC version. For example if you kill Richter it actually sounds like he's panting and dying when he gives his final speech. Only thing I didn't like was they removed Matthew 16:26. Some VA clips I do miss though. I like the original hydro storm clip better and I also like "magnificent but now feel my unbridled wrath" more than "such power! my greatest attack!" Finally I wish they kept in some of the things the bosses say during the fights. Like Richter saying "you fool!" I felt like it added a lot to the original game.
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It made sense for Dracula to quote the bible. He WAS a warrior of the church.
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ESCOs version will kickass !
but for now the best version is Dracula x chronicles version
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PS1 version.
About DXC new voiceover, I've only played it with Japanese voices, and I never seen any differences between them...
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PS1 version.
About DXC new voiceover, I've only played it with Japanese voices, and I never seen any differences between them...
Bugged me a bit they just reused the English text for the Japanese dialog.
In the original PS1 and JPN versions, Alucard would go "..................." after Dracula's Matthew 16:26 line.
But in the PSP version, they changed Drac's line to, "Ah, how poetic. So I tragically sacrificed all I held dear in a search for power, did I?" and Alucard responds with, "Did you not?" So with Japanese voices on, Alucard says nothing, but the text for the line is still there.
Just bugged the crap outta me.
And yeah, DXC version is my favorite.
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Saturn version has Ninja Maria. It wins by default.
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I have to agree largely with the sentiments that the additions to the Saturn version are largely inferior to the quality of the original. But it was a valiant effort. A couple of the new enemy sprites were ok. The cursed Dungeon was a good addition. And the new items were all pretty neat.
Esco's version will definitely roxxor.
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I had also read the the Sega Saturn didn't support transparency so some effects had to be changed and the water looked terrible. I haven't seen it though. I'll have to check youtube.
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I always thought that freaky ass tree in the underground garden was creepy as all hell.
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Symphony on Saturn is a technical mess, and the added content isn't up to the standards of the original game, to say the least. The English-language PS1 release will always be the best one, for functioning as intended and having a genuinely good script, albeit delivered through questionable voice acting. It's all in good fun.
I don't like the DXC port at all for the flavourless writing, humourless by-the-books acting that puts me to sleep, bizarre altered SFX in places that bothers me to no end when it probably shouldn't, and the ugly smoothening filter and distorted aspect ratio slapped on top of the best pixel art in the industry. I am the Wind is what it is, but the new composition Yamane did for the credits isn't exactly an improvement either.
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I actually like the new song over I am the Wind, but it does sound like something from the latter DS years instead of a continuation of SotN's soundtrack.
I guess I agree with those that say DXC is the ultimate version for reason that have already been said.
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Symphony on Saturn is a technical mess, and the added content isn't up to the standards of the original game, to say the least.
The problem with the Saturn version of SotN was that it was a direct port from a primarily 3D based engine to a different console engine that was originally supposed to be meant for 2D games and thus had problems with 3D games (the original idea of the Saturn was to be the best 2D console ever, but then 3D became the new and trendy thing, so the developers just slapped on another processor so the Saturn could do 3D). It being a direct port, not much was done to accommodate for the change in console engines and thus the game suffered as a result.
At least that's how I understand it.
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But that's still an excuse. It ended up bad, so it's bad. It doesn't matter how technically difficult it was. The whole point of a port is translating the game successfully, and it fails that. Plus, the team was incompetent when it came to the graphical work so that the new sprites are out of resolution with the old ones. It's just a mess full of clear mistakes and shoddy workarounds.
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I did a little reading and found that the Saturn version was not ported by the original SotN guys, but a different team entirely. Iga reportedly has much disdain for the sloppy half-assed Saturn port, it's technical problems and shoddy sprite work. That third reason is why Maria has totally different sprites from the Saturn version when she appears as a playable character in the Dracula X Chronicles version.
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Yeah it was KCE Nagoya (the other branch of Konami, back then it was Tokyo KCET, Kobe KCEK, and KCEN).
I have no problems with Castlevania: Nocturne in the Moonlight for SATURN...
...when it's played properly on an actual Saturn.
A lot of the negative comments seem to come from people who are playing it either emulated or through some other means. When played on a Sega Saturn console on a TV, the differences start to blur rather well... almost as well as the dithering used in the Saturn version when used on a television.
The load time after the rooms (which had the very purpose of seamlessly blend the areas and minimize it) can be somewhat ignored. It's barely a second or two. I happen to dig the new areas even if they are quirky. The Skull Knight Guardian battle is interesting though I was overpowered and took him out way too quickly.
Also, Saturn's Maria is the best Maria. So wonderfully overpowered, she can wreck the game in no time flat.
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The only way I've played the Saturn port of Symphony is on a real console, viewed through a real CRT screen. It doesn't mask its flaws to a degree that they would be excusable in the slightest. The transparencies etc. are still as good as broken, and the three-to-five-second pause for loading every time you enter or exit the menu (doubly distressing because the map has been relocated inside the menu screen) makes the game virtually unplayable to anyone who knows there are better alternatives.
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Not to George.
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The Saturn version is my favorite. I love the new music, new areas and most of the new enemies. Sure there are some deficiencies, but I think the good outweighs the bad. If run on SSF, the game runs even better than on real hardware. You can even get some of the transparencies back! I also agree with Jorge that Saturn Maria is better than the dumbed-down DXC version. I understand the decision to make her more like the RoB version. But Konami didn't even carry over all her subweapons. Also that damn glitch with the Dragon is annoying as hell.
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I have played NITM only once and only as Maria. I kind of flew through the game and didn't payed much attention to graphical changes and all that. So, I don't have a definitive opinion, but I plan to play through it soon.
Though, I've heard NITM fixed several minor gameplay problems of SOTN, like giving Alucard "third arm" and adding ability to run in the Second Castle.
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It should be noted (it's 'Jorge' by the way, you'd think people'd get my name right after the years here) that:
-Since I've played through SotN to hell and back, I no longer look at the map. However, I concede that it is true that it takes way too long AND is annoying to use the map feature.
-Also, since I pretty much play exclusively as Maria when I play this game, I no longer really have use for the pause menu's inventory, as it is not relevant to her game. Also, I no longer need to look at the map for her game either.
-I'm not saying that the graphical issues aren't there. What I am saying is that a lot of the people who find these issues more grating than usual, are usually people who are playing the game on an emulator, on a computer monitor, where the issues are even more apparent. It is an unfair assessment.
I will concede that if I could play the Saturn SotN with the perks of the Playstation version (loading, better menu), I would be pretty happy. And no, the DraculaXChronicles version is not that. I want my crappy stages, overpowered Maria, and badly-dressed Richter dammitall. It's about completeness!
Also, the Saturn version does the audio looping for the tunes properly. No abrupt 'stop' moments while it reloads the XA Audio Loop. It's a subtle thing but I notice it.
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That reminds me. I wish they would've redone Richter's sprite in DXC. The new Maria sprite looked really good. ;_;
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GOD do I miss playing DXC on my PSP. But my model 1 PSP screen cracked and I never got around to soldering on a replacement screen. I lack the money for that anyways.
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DXC feels like a band-aid to me. IGA made it to appease the fans who wanted to experience Saturn features, but it fell way short IMO.
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DXC feels like a band-aid to me. IGA made it to appease the fans who wanted to experience Saturn features, but it fell way short IMO.
The only Saturn experience was Maria and that was not what has been expected.
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To be honest, while some of you may enjoy the OP-ness of Saturn Maria, I felt that she had reached Mary-Sue levels of game-breaking and unbalancedness compared to the other two playable characters, enough to turn me off. The game was already easy enough with Alucard and Richter, why turn Maria into an "anything you guys can do, I can do way better" character? At least DXC-SotN Maria felt balanced compared to Saturn Maria, even if DXC-SotN Maria was more-or-less a carbon copy of RoB Maria save for a few differences.
Why yes, blatant unbalancedness is one of my pet peeves. Kinda implies creator favoritism, you know?
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I was perfectly fine with DXC Maria too. I'd seen videos of her on the Saturn and I was a bit shocked with how much over-kill she had been designed with.
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I don't mind the DXC version of Maria, but I think her attacks should have been somewhat on par with Richter's at least. Not enough to take away the challenge but not making it too terrible easy either. As it currently stands I've only ever used Maria once and I found it a bit of a tough scrape. She was definitely stronger in Rondo and I feel her strength should have been kept in SotN as well.
Richter should have been given his SotN outfit rather then wearing his Rondo look which we've all seen before many times. Just a little something to keep in line with the game's artstyle.
I also feel that the missing stages featured in NitM should have been restored and also expanded on just so they're not too short. But as for the new enemies, replace them with something that is more a kin to Castlevania then what we've already seen. The new music I have no real problems with and still listen to them on occasion.
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To be honest, while some of you may enjoy the OP-ness of Saturn Maria, I felt that she had reached Mary-Sue levels of game-breaking and unbalancedness compared to the other two playable characters, enough to turn me off. The game was already easy enough with Alucard and Richter, why turn Maria into an "anything you guys can do, I can do way better" character? At least DXC-SotN Maria felt balanced compared to Saturn Maria, even if DXC-SotN Maria was more-or-less a carbon copy of RoB Maria save for a few differences.
Why yes, blatant unbalancedness is one of my pet peeves. Kinda implies creator favoritism, you know?
**blasts you with Gekku-Tiger Multi-Fireball of DOOM**
Also, relevant (Maria destroying the game with her uber-ness xD):
Castlevania SOTN Maria Speed Run in 8:31 min (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw-vLjsMimo#)
Notices:
-The worst thing about the game are the load times. It's 7 extra seconds past the CD Chambers. There are also additional load times at the Castle Keep's Door and at the Chapel's Sky Corridors.
-There are no translucent effects. There are, instead, colorswapping effects combined with dithering. Check them out behind Maria's Shadows as she dashes through the castle. Also shown upon certain death animations from enemies (Axe Knights). Fire effects are also done solid, not translucent (including enemy death fire)
-Maria's Forward Kick is not only an awesome attack move, but propels you through Dracula's Castle incredibly fast.
-Maria's Gekku-Tiger Fireball decimates bosses. If it doesn't decimate a boss, her downjump kick and forward kick will.
-Maria has an invincibility move (shown at the beginning of the video), which uses MP but lasts quite a long while. It's not only invincibility, but it takes out enemies. She might as well have Super Mario Star Power.
None of these are game-breaking, though. The load-time is the worst of the things weird about the game by far (and if you're a patient person, it's not nearly as 'horrible' as people make it out to be).
I love that about this version of the game though. I just rampage through it. RAWR KAMEHAMEHASHINKUHADOKEN!
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**blasts you with Gekku-Tiger Multi-Fireball of DOOM**
Also, relevant (Maria destroying the game with her uber-ness xD):
Castlevania SOTN Maria Speed Run in 8:31 min (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw-vLjsMimo#)
Notices:
-The worst thing about the game are the load times. It's 7 extra seconds past the CD Chambers. There are also additional load times at the Castle Keep's Door and at the Chapel's Sky Corridors.
-There are no translucent effects. There are, instead, colorswapping effects combined with dithering. Check them out behind Maria's Shadows as she dashes through the castle. Also shown upon certain death animations from enemies (Axe Knights). Fire effects are also done solid, not translucent (including enemy death fire)
-Maria's Forward Kick is not only an awesome attack move, but propels you through Dracula's Castle incredibly fast.
-Maria's Gekku-Tiger Fireball decimates bosses. If it doesn't decimate a boss, her downjump kick and forward kick will.
-Maria has an invincibility move (shown at the beginning of the video), which uses MP but lasts quite a long while. It's not only invincibility, but it takes out enemies. She might as well have Super Mario Star Power.
None of these are game-breaking, though. The load-time is the worst of the things weird about the game by far (and if you're a patient person, it's not nearly as 'horrible' as people make it out to be).
I love that about this version of the game though. I just rampage through it. RAWR KAMEHAMEHASHINKUHADOKEN!
hmmm.. interesting makes me want the saturn version now.
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the best part of the port is honestly jinmenju
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Castlevania SOTN Maria Speed Run in 8:31 min (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw-vLjsMimo#)
damn i miss metroivania
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DXC feels like a band-aid to me. IGA made it to appease the fans who wanted to experience Saturn features, but it fell way short IMO.
I wouldn't say that's entirely accurate. Recall that Maria was indeed planned for the initial design, but was cut due to time factors from the PSX version. IGA simply finished off the cut feature for the DXC version.
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To be honest, while some of you may enjoy the OP-ness of Saturn Maria, I felt that she had reached Mary-Sue levels of game-breaking and unbalancedness compared to the other two playable characters, enough to turn me off. The game was already easy enough with Alucard and Richter, why turn Maria into an "anything you guys can do, I can do way better" character? At least DXC-SotN Maria felt balanced compared to Saturn Maria, even if DXC-SotN Maria was more-or-less a carbon copy of RoB Maria save for a few differences.
Why yes, blatant unbalancedness is one of my pet peeves. Kinda implies creator favoritism, you know?
I can't say that i disagree, but with DXC version, they went the opposite, since she was fairly weak, beating Galamoth was taking forever, i have been bored to death pressing the attack button, until he would die.
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I can't say that i disagree, but with DXC version, they went the opposite, since she was fairly weak, beating Galamoth was taking forever, i have been bored to death pressing the attack button, until he would die.
Never bothered going to Galamoth with Maria as I knew I wouldn't be able to kill him without having my ass handed to me. Maria's just too weak for the job. But by attacking Galamoth's head you can kill him faster then attacking any other part of his body.
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Yeah I once spent about 30m straight killing ol' Gally as Richter. I did so by learning how to manipulate him into doing his lightning attack, then dagger upper-cutting through the arm for 167 or however much it did. Even with spammed Hydro-storms it still took me like 30.
When I did it as Richter on the DXC port, I said "fuck it. I killed him legit a looooong ass time ago) and dashed through his head. After that, I fired about 1,000 daggers at his head, killing him in under 10s flat.
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What I used to do as Alucard against Galamoth is I'd get really close to him, face away, and let him hit me with his lightning - knocking me toward him and between his legs where I couldn't get hit. I'd then just fire away with First of Tulkas.
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Maria was indeed planned for the initial design, but was cut due to time factors from the PSX version.
I didn't know this.
I learn a lot of new things every day here.
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hohoho what i love most about symphony (any version), was the fact that it felt like i was looking through a window through time back in the 18th century
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I really enjoyed the Saturn port. Some of the new enemies were good like the willow wisp and the living tree. The new music was awesome and Maria was fun. The graphic flaws can be overlooked but the loading sucked. Especially if you had to use the map. I played through Alucards game just to try out the Godspeed boots. It helps a bit. Any dedicated SOTN fan really should play through the Saturn version at least once.
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There are a few things I really like about the Saturn version of SOTN:
1. Playable Maria!
2. Running shoes!
3. Remixes of Beginning and Vampire Killer!
4. Maria boss battle!
5. Norio fucking Wakamoto (though he was of course in the Japanese PS1 version as well)
There are several things I do not like about it, however:
1. The game engine wasn't retooled for the Saturn, and lots of stuff can look stretched out poorly
2. Slowdown from too much stuff on screen happens at a lower threshhold
3. The loading procedures were poorly implemented. Oops.
4. A lot of transparency effects don't work, so, say, the Mana Prism use sequence ends up fading in from black
5. Other transparency is faked with dithering
Now, if you run this on an emulator, you can get around 2, 3, and 5 (protip: enable a feature on SSF called "mesh translucent" under the program 4 tab in the options box), so my remaining beefs with the Saturn version are pretty minor. If I'm going to play a copy of the game it's likely to end up being that one, though I do have the PS1 version already installed on my PS3 from the guy who owned it last.
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I have a new laptop, and can't get SSF to run NiTM at fullspeed on it... My old desktop PC was much less powerful and ran NiTM perfectly, so this is quite frustrating. I really want to play it again, as it is my favorite version... I lost my JP Saturn Console and Game disc a few years back due to some asshole.
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Have you tried messing about with the compatibility options any? It might be set to higher levels than what you had on your old PC, making it run slower.
In general I'm trying it right now and it's running fine but I don't think that can really be used as any real point of comparison.
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Finally I've completed NITM and I hope somebody will answer my two questions about the game:
1) How to make green fairy (Sprite) to sing a song? I have equiped Lyrics card, Sprite familiar, sat in the chair and waited...and then waited more...and more...and nothing had happened. How long I need to wait for her to sing and what I should equip / unequip for this?
2) How to fill gaps in the Reversed Catacombs in the water? In SOTN I did it with the help of wolf form, in NITM I am unable to do that and Down + Up + Jump move is useless for this.
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1. I think the fairy might need some levelling up first? Not sure. I'll look into this in the near future I think.
2. I do remember those map segments being really, really touchy. I think I had to go at it at a run as wolf in order to do that -- jump up and sorta collide into the edge of those top parts. It wasn't very easy but I eventually did manage, but I think it takes near pixel-perfect positioning to work.
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muteKi, thanks, I'll try to do that. ;)