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The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => Hardcore Gaming 101 => Topic started by: JR on December 09, 2012, 02:33:10 AM

Title: The Phantom Pain
Post by: JR on December 09, 2012, 02:33:10 AM
Anyone catch any of the VGAs the other night? Hadn't planned on watching any of it, but I did catch a trailer for The Phantom Pain:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSfajBs2nyQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSfajBs2nyQ)

I thought this looked pretty interesting/bleak/tense/etc. so I googled it...and...this is (most likely) a new Metal Gear game?? Eh, that kind of disappointed me...I was hoping this was a brand new title. I'm not nearly the Metal Gear fan that I used to be (the games are still fun to play, but I'm kind of tired of Kojima's storytelling/characters), but I'll still probably have to pick this one up. If it really is an MGS game, I'm kind of surprised (and pleased) with the direction and tone this one is taking. Well, if this trailer is representative of the game as a whole, anyway.
Title: Re: The Phantom Pain
Post by: Claimh Solais on December 09, 2012, 08:02:32 AM
There's no real confirmation that the game is indeed a new Metal Gear entry. Or is there and I missed it?

Anyway, yeah, this game looks pretty sweet, if that is indeed gameplay like it looks. The main character looks interestingly like the Solid Snake who the Solid series was (somewhat) named after (but was only the main protagonist of two of the games). Volgin appears in the trailer. And I've heard that Paz and Psycho Mantis show up, but I'm not sure. Maybe it's a reboot or new subseries for Metal Gear? Even then, it could just end up being a new IP.
Title: Re: The Phantom Pain
Post by: A-Yty on December 09, 2012, 08:21:40 AM
Guy who might be blonde, drove a jeep shirtless, lost his arm..now who in MGS could that be?

Either

a) it's Liquid after MGS. No one seems to stay dead in MGS, anyway. He's lost his memory after "dying" of FoxDie.

b) It's BB after MG or MG2 and his burning/getting hit with missiles has been retconned into lesser injuries. He's gotten skinny during coma and lost his memory.

c) It's a new IP and these are all deliberate red herrings to have MGS speculation do the viral marketing.

Seeing as how Kojima hasn't been able to shake MGS despite many times publicly mentioning his desire to do so, I'd chalk it up to viral marketing of MGS.
Title: Re: The Phantom Pain
Post by: KaZudra on December 09, 2012, 10:08:12 AM
Its Metal Gear Solid V.
It appears most of the trailer is a nightmare sequence.
Title: Re: The Phantom Pain
Post by: X on December 09, 2012, 10:41:38 AM
The only thing that even remotely connects this as possibly being a MGS title is the injured man who looks like big Boss. And listening to his labored breathing near the end it even sounds like him. Is David Hayter doing the voice on this guy? I definitely cannot say that this is Solid Snake as he never lost an arm. And it's not Liquid Snake as he has blond hair, no facial hair and has a far different voice then Solid Snake (And that's not counting Liquid's British accent). But if this is a new MGS title then it's by far, very different-looking then all the other games we've seen so far. But of course this was a teaser trailer and only happening in one particular location. The other scenes are a little vague to make sense of them at the moment.
Title: Re: The Phantom Pain
Post by: Profbeanburrito on December 09, 2012, 11:18:48 AM
And it's not Liquid Snake as he has blond hair, no facial hair and has a far different voice then Solid Snake (And that's not counting Liquid's British accent)

Well if he was in a coma for awhile his hair could start to grey and he could grow a beard. And we don't hear him talk in the trailer, plus LiQuid is missing an arm, and I know this is a little thing, but there is a British flag in the background and Liquid is a Brit
Title: Re: The Phantom Pain
Post by: A-Yty on December 09, 2012, 11:29:26 AM
A man can get grey easily in a couple of years. And especially if you've been genetically engineered to grow old really fast.

If this is an MGS game, my money's on Liquid. It makes most sense. Then again, this might be exactly what Kojima would like people to think. I've got to hand it to the old retconner if this is his handy work; he actually made me care about Metal Gear after MGS4.
Title: Re: The Phantom Pain
Post by: Kingshango on December 09, 2012, 11:58:27 AM
Totally not Metal Gear related. Nope not at all. Not even a little bit.
Title: Re: The Phantom Pain
Post by: X on December 09, 2012, 09:36:32 PM
You're forgetting the most important part Profbeanburrito. Liquid was killed off by exposure to FOXDie. He never came back except through a mental Doppelganger state Created/induced by Revolver Ocelot. On a side note liquid doesn't sport the infamous 'Snake mullet' as does Big Boss and Solid Snake. Plus the video did not show the man with grey hair. It was dark brown.

Quote
Totally not Metal Gear related. Nope not at all. Not even a little bit.

Do you know of the website that mentions this? I wish to see it for myself so I can put this all to rest :)
Title: Re: The Phantom Pain
Post by: JR on December 09, 2012, 10:19:01 PM
Its Metal Gear Solid V.
It appears most of the trailer is a nightmare sequence.

Ah, damn. I didn't think of that...you're probably right. I hope there's more to it, though.

I have to give Kojima credit...when he does this kind of thing as far as keeping people guessing, it's usually pretty fun to see where it goes.

Totally not Metal Gear related. Nope not at all. Not even a little bit.

Nobody said it wasn't.
Title: Re: The Phantom Pain
Post by: Kingshango on December 09, 2012, 10:37:32 PM
It's called sarcasm guys.

Even if it's not Metal Gear related(even though it's %99 likey that it is), there's no doubt that Kojima is behind it, especially since it looks like it's running on the FOX engine.
Title: Re: The Phantom Pain
Post by: JR on December 09, 2012, 10:39:00 PM
It's called sarcasm guys.


No wai!
Title: Re: The Phantom Pain
Post by: Profbeanburrito on December 10, 2012, 05:39:51 AM
You're forgetting the most important part Profbeanburrito. Liquid was killed off by exposure to FOXDie.

Yeah but it's Metal Gear.its notorious for crazy things like bringing people back from the dead.
The only thing I'm unsure about is which arm it was Liquid lost to Ocelot.


On a side note liquid doesn't sport the infamous 'Snake mullet' as does Big Boss and Solid Snake.

But Liquid got all recessive genes, so he might not have that
Title: Re: The Phantom Pain
Post by: A-Yty on December 10, 2012, 07:18:55 AM
Mullet is encoded in one's genes?
Title: Re: The Phantom Pain
Post by: thernz on December 10, 2012, 07:38:59 AM
Well, on a different note, Liquid's hair was sun-bleached and he still had both arms at the end of MGS1. It would be pretty terrible if it turned out to be a nightmare sequence too so I'm hoping for ingenuity on Kojima's part, which is probably asking too much.

When I first saw the trailer, I was too absorbed in how badly pacedit was, probably to disorient and confuse the audience but okay, to recognize what it really was. Welp. Then I looked back and it was clearly Kojima-influenced in cinematic style.
Title: Re: The Phantom Pain
Post by: A-Yty on December 10, 2012, 07:49:36 AM
But it could be after Solidus stole his arm. Or, this being Metal Gear, he only thought he took Liquid's arm.

Edit: arm thief corrected.
Title: Re: The Phantom Pain
Post by: thernz on December 10, 2012, 07:52:53 AM
Well, I mean, they would probably still make it bleached/blonde or whatever.

But I guess that would make it too obvious too.
Title: Re: The Phantom Pain
Post by: A-Yty on December 10, 2012, 07:54:37 AM
Is it really clear that Liquid actually had blonde hair? Maybe he colored it to not look like his despised DNA progenitor.

If we want to entertain this theory, is it not odd that Otacon and Snake didn't seem to think much of Liquid's supposed body missing an arm? If we dive into the mind of Kojima, that could mean Snake and Otacon stole another clone body instead of Liquid.
Title: Re: The Phantom Pain
Post by: X on December 10, 2012, 09:51:11 AM
Quote
Is it really clear that Liquid actually had blonde hair? Maybe he colored it to not look like his despised DNA progenitor.

Dispite being twins I think Liquid's hair color is blond naturally. Remember that Eva was their mother and she had blond hair. But of course she was only a surrogate mother so her DNA might not have had any influence either. In terms of Liquid's arm missing I can only think of this one argument that should help us sort all this out. Revolver Ocelot's right arm was severed by the cyborg ninja so he would have taken Liquid's right arm as a replacement. The man in the hospital (We'll just call him BB) had a left arm prosthetic. Also pieces of Liquid and Solidus were used to reassemble Big Boss's body as mentioned in the ending sequence in MGS4.
Title: Re: The Phantom Pain
Post by: A-Yty on December 10, 2012, 10:13:51 AM
EVA definitely did not give any genes to LET. Remember when she says the egg came from a Japanese woman. If the body recovered from the tanker was another clone body instead of Liquid, it would mean he was not hacked to piecces and used as spare parts.

There's always the slim chance of the trailer being mirrored to further confuse people. But yeah, I would be very suprised if Liquid got his own game. Which is kind of a pity. I was sort of rooting for him towards the end. BB was a real asshole to him.

Title: Re: The Phantom Pain
Post by: Sumac on December 10, 2012, 12:08:57 PM
It is most likely (playable) nightmare sequence from either Ground Zeroes or MGS5, akin to hidden vampire hunter game in MGS3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzj2-wUVNho#). My money on the former, since some of the scenes looked like Big Boss (if it was him and there is little doubt about it at the moment) was experiencing nightmare about his previous encounters, thus explaining presence of the Volgin, Paz (?) and petals (like in battle with Boss) in the video.

Of course, if Psycho Mantis is involved, then it can be anyone, not even neccessarily one of the clones.

Doctor in the video looks a lot like Dr. Kio Marv (http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/Kio_Marv) from Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake. Liquid lost right arm and his hair were bleached, due to conditions in which he spent part of his life.
Title: Re: The Phantom Pain
Post by: Dengo vlad tepes on December 10, 2012, 01:07:09 PM
The facts i have noticed :

- in 2:20 and 2:28 you can see the GRU colonel Volgin

- in 2:38 i can see a horse crowded between fires, a reference to the Boss

- 2:54 isn't that the big boss's face ?

- in 3:02 you can see psycho mantis's doll

and the mobydick studios CEO called Joakim and Joakim is Kojima if you corrected the letters

he also tweeted 2 mysterious on that Joakim N. Mogran account

https://twitter.com/JNMogren
Title: Re: The Phantom Pain
Post by: X on December 10, 2012, 08:48:46 PM
Quote
Doctor in the video looks a lot like Dr. Kio Marv from Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake. Liquid lost right arm and his hair were bleached, due to conditions in which he spent part of his life.

Except that Dr. Kio Marv wasn't a medical doctor. He was a scientific researcher who discovered and developed OILIX, the revolutionary bio organism that produces high-grade petroleum. What you may want to check out is Dr. Drago Pettrovich Madnar. He is a well-known cybernetics expert who Built the Metal Gear TX-55 prototype, Metal Gear D and the TX humanoid robots that patrolled Outer Haven. He was also responsible for saving Raiden's life sometime after MGS2 and then again in MGS4. I'd bet my money that it's him in the trailer. And yes he wears glasses like in the trailer.
Title: Re: The Phantom Pain
Post by: Sumac on December 11, 2012, 07:54:48 AM
Quote
What you may want to check out is Dr. Drago Pettrovich Madnar.
I remember about him, but doctor in the video looks more like Kio Marv, rather than Petrovich.
As for OILIX - its existence, so far, was never mentioned in any of the MG2 sequels, as well as fuel crisis, that was signigicant part of the MG2 plot. I think it could have been quietly retconned.
Title: Re: The Phantom Pain
Post by: X on December 11, 2012, 06:00:45 PM
Quote
As for OILIX - its existence, so far, was never mentioned in any of the MG2 sequels, as well as fuel crisis, that was signigicant part of the MG2 plot. I think it could have been quietly retconned.

Negative. It's an important part of the MG2 story and thus cannot be retconned without doing a lot of repair work for the gap that it leaves. Snake's primary objectives in MG2 was the rescue of Dr. Kio Marv, the recovery of OILIX and the destruction of Metal Gear D. The reason why the fuel crisis isn't mentioned after Metal Gear 2 is because it has since been averted due to the implementation of OILIX in the global economy. MG2 took place in 1999 and MGS happens in 2004. There is plenty of time in that gap to reverse the fuel crisis and put that story-arch to rest. And yes actually it is mentioned in MGS but not in the actual game story. It is located in the data files that are unlocked after you finish the game. I don't know about the PSX version but I do know it is in the Game Cube remake (Twin snakes).
Title: Re: The Phantom Pain
Post by: Sumac on December 13, 2012, 10:34:15 AM
Quote
And yes actually it is mentioned in MGS but not in the actual game story. It is located in the data files that are unlocked after you finish the game. I don't know about the PSX version but I do know it is in the Game Cube remake (Twin snakes).
Allrighty then. Though, I still expected more mention of the international fuel crisis in the series.
Title: Re: The Phantom Pain
Post by: X on December 14, 2012, 09:58:33 AM
Quote
Allrighty then. Though, I still expected more mention of the international fuel crisis in the series.

I agree. It would have been a nice throwback/mention to the games that we never got a chance to play until recently.
Title: Re: The Phantom Pain
Post by: Rugal on December 15, 2012, 07:42:14 AM
But Liquid got all recessive genes, so he might not have that

Actually, Liquid was the superior clone after all. I think they state it somewhere in the MGS1 ending.
Title: Re: The Phantom Pain
Post by: Sumac on December 15, 2012, 11:21:44 AM
Quote
Actually, Liquid was the superior clone after all. I think they state it somewhere in the MGS1 ending.
It was said by Ocelot in the post-credits "dialogue" with "Mr. President" / Solidus.
Title: Re: The Phantom Pain
Post by: Sumac on December 16, 2012, 01:01:33 PM
Games with reality continues:
http://thephantompain.com/ (http://thephantompain.com/)

Moby Dick Studios site now has its own Image Gallery. (http://www.mobydickstudio.se/en/image-gallery/)

Reedited by fan Phantom Pain trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLb6NPKWQ5g#ws) in which he attempted to recreate order of events, shown in the clip, in chronological order.

Two screenshots from the trailer:
It's not PAZ...at least, it doesn't even look very human...
(click to show/hide)
Sorrow or Mantis?
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: The Phantom Pain
Post by: Sumac on December 25, 2012, 04:02:18 PM
Alternative version of the traler with the new audio. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBF6JZm8PnQ#ws)
Title: Re: The Phantom Pain
Post by: X on December 27, 2012, 12:10:29 PM
Yeah that's gotta be Big Boss. There's just no other explanation as this alternate trailer is far more revealing the the last one. And also that guy who's covered in fire does look a lot like Volgin. I have to wonder if this is another of those Metal Gear games that plays with the player's mind. Kinda like what Metal Gear Solid 2 did with Raiden and the Patriot CODEC conversations. That was really messed up when i first played through it. But I'm still of the mind that the Doctor with the glasses is Madnar as he was speaking with a slight German accent where-as Dr. Kio Marv is a Czech scientist. One more thing I should mention though is that Kio Marv has dark brown hair in his art images while The man we see is elderly and his early Metal Gear pics have him with white hair that's thinning along the sides to the point of being completely bald. The only way any of us will know for sure is if we play the game as see for ourselves.
Title: Re: The Phantom Pain
Post by: darkmanx_429 on January 02, 2013, 04:32:57 PM
This has already been debunked, it's definetly Metal Gear Solid 5. Who else is rocking a mullet in gaming these days anyways?! lol
Title: Re: The Phantom Pain
Post by: darkmanx_429 on January 02, 2013, 04:41:42 PM
The facts i have noticed :

- in 2:20 and 2:28 you can see the GRU colonel Volgin

- in 2:38 i can see a horse crowded between fires, a reference to the Boss

- 2:54 isn't that the big boss's face ?

- in 3:02 you can see psycho mantis's doll

and the mobydick studios CEO called Joakim and Joakim is Kojima if you corrected the letters

he also tweeted 2 mysterious on that Joakim N. Mogran account

https://twitter.com/JNMogren (https://twitter.com/JNMogren)

Moby Dick studios logo, that is Kojima's hair...also the faint Metal Gear Solid 5 logo behind when The Phantom Pain title appears..isn't that The Sorrow at the end of the trailer floating through the air...2:56 Yeah, I like Metal Gear...lol
(http://i50.tinypic.com/2jdrz9s.jpg)
Title: Re: The Phantom Pain
Post by: Profbeanburrito on January 03, 2013, 03:30:39 PM
Are people still doubting this is a Metal Gear game?

Anyways, I was rewatching the ground Zeroes trailer again and totally forgot it says at one point "From FOX, two phantoms are born" my guess is that's a reference  to both the Fox engine and the games.

I just can't wait to see more info on both of these and I hope at least one will be out this year
Title: Re: The Phantom Pain
Post by: Weiss Belmont on January 03, 2013, 10:16:58 PM
Moby Dick studios logo, that is Kojima's hair...also the faint Metal Gear Solid 5 logo behind when The Phantom Pain title appears..isn't that The Sorrow at the end of the trailer floating through the air...2:56 Yeah, I like Metal Gear...lol

You make some good points but not all of them are accurate. The Sorrow was not in the trailer. The entity you saw at 2:59 is Psycho Mantis. According to most if not all Metal Gear forums (and pretty much every site that pops up in Google) we see PM twice in the trailers. A lot of what BB is seeing are also just PM's illusions. Such as The Boss riding a flaming horse, the presence of Volgin, and some other eerie things are just illusions.

Note that this operation involves Mantis when he was still a child soldier. In the first trailer you can actually hear him breathing through his gas mask when he shows up. In this trailer here, at 2:59 you can clearly see what appears to be a floating child wearing something resembling a straight jacket. You know it's a child because you can see the sleeves are longer than the child's arms.
Title: Re: The Phantom Pain
Post by: X on January 03, 2013, 10:43:31 PM
Quote
You make some good points but not all of them are accurate. The Sorrow was not in the trailer. The entity you saw at 2:59 is Psycho Mantis. According to most if not all Metal Gear forums (and pretty much every site that pops up in Google) we see PM twice in the trailers. A lot of what BB is seeing are also just PM's illusions. Such as The Boss riding a flaming horse, the presence of Volgin, and some other eerie things are just illusions.

Note that this operation involves Mantis when he was still a child soldier. In the first trailer you can actually hear him breathing through his gas mask when he shows up. In this trailer here, at 2:59 you can clearly see what appears to be a floating child wearing something resembling a straight jacket. You know it's a child because you can see the sleeves are longer than the child's arms.

You know what? This makes a hell of a lot of sense. There's so much weird shit happening in the videos that it could only be done through illusions unless it were some other game. It's obvious to me now that the images we see are from Big Boss' mind. Volgin on fire, a giant whale diving through the air (not sure where that one came from), the Boss on a flaming horse, all illusions. Also those soldiers hunting for Big Boss are speaking with a Russian accent so Psycho Mantis could be part of their group sent out to capture/recover him. I'm also going to bet Ocelot's in there somewhere too. He'd probably be their CO on the field.
Title: Re: The Phantom Pain
Post by: darkmanx_429 on January 03, 2013, 10:54:41 PM
You make some good points but not all of them are accurate. The Sorrow was not in the trailer. The entity you saw at 2:59 is Psycho Mantis. According to most if not all Metal Gear forums (and pretty much every site that pops up in Google) we see PM twice in the trailers. A lot of what BB is seeing are also just PM's illusions. Such as The Boss riding a flaming horse, the presence of Volgin, and some other eerie things are just illusions.

Note that this operation involves Mantis when he was still a child soldier. In the first trailer you can actually hear him breathing through his gas mask when he shows up. In this trailer here, at 2:59 you can clearly see what appears to be a floating child wearing something resembling a straight jacket. You know it's a child because you can see the sleeves are longer than the child's arms.

The thing about The Sorrow was a question. You couldn't really get a good look at the entity, it just reminded me of The Sorrow. This also makes me wonder, if this indeed is the beginnings of the Foxhound Team and Mantis is indeed a child I wonder if any of the other members will show up. Also could we be seeing a young Roy Campel again and Frank Yeager should be running around as well, pre Grey Fox..
Title: Re: The Phantom Pain
Post by: Weiss Belmont on January 04, 2013, 05:48:13 AM
I suppose this is a good time to post one of my crackpot theories. I posted this on a Metal Gear forum under ZERO PHOENIX.



This is what the MG series is shaping out to be in light of these new games:

Snake Eater
Portable Ops
Phantom Pain
Peace Walker
Ground Zeroes

At the end of PO Sokolov thought BB died in that explosion. We know that BB lived but he did lose his arm. We see this in PO's ending where one arm is a prosthetic. Of course in Phantom Pain it's the wrong arm that's missing but if we look at the time that would have to have passed within Portable Ops it would have been at least a month between BB stopping Gene and then being decorated by the U.S. government for saving the world. What if Big Boss got captured shortly after stopping Gene?

Look at this from the Portable Ops perspective.

Portable Ops - Snake stops Gene - Snake tries to stop nuke - Snake saves the day but is left comatose after the missile he's in impacts - Snake wakes up in the hospital we see in Phantom Pain - Whatever the hell happens in Phantom Pain happens over a few days - The crises in Phantom Pain whatever it may be is resolved and Snake is rescued perhaps by the U.S. government thus leaving the location of Phantom Pain - Now we see the ending of Portable Ops - Now we head into Peace Walker and then finally Ground Zeroes.

But what about BB's arms? Why does BB have two arms in PW? Simple. They cloned him a new one. The CIA tells Snake they have a way to restore his arm and do so by cloning one. They don't tell him that the cloning of his arm is in and of itself part of the Les Effants Terribles project. In fact, while BB was comatose his arm might have even been cut off for the Les Effants Terrible project. Anyway, the CIA sees how easily they are able to clone a part of Big Boss and then take it to the next level by trying to clone BB in his entirety, thus leading us the eight fetuses cloned from BB only for five to be aborted in the womb and the rest we know is history.

This is why Snake is missing an arm at the end of PO but has both arms in PW and GZ.


SE - BB's origin story

PO - Snake stops gene, Snake is left comatose after the missle fiasco, and somehow loses his arm.

PP - Those guys rushing in may be involved in the Les Effantes Terribles project. They could be looking for BB for the purpose of getting his body and cloning the greatest soldier ever to walk the earth. However while they're trying to extract an entire person i.e. BB someone else already made off with his arm. That someone else being the CIA. Somehow BB is rescued and we see the ending to PO.

PO Ending - Sometime after this ending and before PW Snake's arm is restored via cloned tissue manufactured during or after the events of PP.

PW - Snake has both arms.

GZ - Of course Snake still has both arms and is still completely unaware that the cloned tissue used to make his arm is part of a bigger project.

Title: Re: The Phantom Pain
Post by: darkmanx_429 on January 05, 2013, 03:08:02 PM
Metal Gear Solid Ground Zeroes - Walkthrough part 1 gameplay MGS5 Developers Demo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwS59OT8bUQ#ws)

Pretty awesome, never saw the extended cut...